MBB: Are we seeing progress from last year?

[18IsTheMan]

Admittedly, I don't tune in for our games, so I can't tell if there's anything subjective that we're doing better (effort, heart, desire, etc). However, through 11 conference games last year, we were 3-8. This year we're 4-7. Of course, last year our record was blamed on us being decimated by covid. If not for that, it was presumed we'd have been much better. But we're only marginally better this year, at least on paper. Is there reason to believe this squad can round into form for next year?

I'm not strongly pro- or anti-Frank. I think it's obvious that we're about as good as we're ever going to be under him, but maybe we're as good we can ever reasonably expect to be. Two or 3 years ago I was hepped on firing him, but I'm pretty indifferent now.

 

[Garnetspur]

Frank, himself says he doesn't know what to do. That combined with his on court demeanor tells you a change is needed and another year is just a repeat of what you've seen.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Frank, himself says he doesn't know what to do. That combined with his on court demeanor tells you a change is needed and another year is just a repeat of what you've seen.

I was not aware he said that. Telling, if true.

A split doesn't have to be ugly. The pastor of our church is stepping down after being here 20+ years. There are no problems at all. He just realizes it's time for some fresh leadership.

 

[GuitarCock]

We are not.

 

[Carolina Steve]

My thought is that we have new players with different skills but some of the same coaching issues remain such as a quick trigger on subs and strange substitution patterns. Frank is frustrated, fans are frustrated and players are frustrated. No one seems to have the definitive answer. Like others, I think the time for fresh ideas and direction has arrived. It doesn't make Frank a bad person or a bad coach. Sometimes new clothes can make you feel better about yourself. Same with coaches.

 

[King Ward]

It's negligible. Just not enough offensive prowess. We always play tough defense. We're like Bob Knight's Indiana teams but without their ability to score.

 

[princebombs]

I'd challenge the defense argument.... the amount of easy shots and open looks these teams get is astonishing. We've had three big second half come back games against bad teams. Nothing more.

 

[King Ward]

Admittedly, I don't tune in for our games, so I can't tell if there's anything subjective that we're doing better (effort, heart, desire, etc). However, through 11 conference games last year, we were 3-8. This year we're 4-7. Of course, last year our record was blamed on us being decimated by covid. If not for that, it was presumed we'd have been much better. But we're only marginally better this year, at least on paper. Is there reason to believe this squad can round into form for next year?

I'm not strongly pro- or anti-Frank. I think it's obvious that we're about as good as we're ever going to be under him, but maybe we're as good we can ever reasonably expect to be. Two or 3 years ago I was hepped on firing him, but I'm pretty indifferent now.

I like Frank, but can anyone say credibly that Frank is cutting it and that the program is ascending?

 

[atl-cock]

Admittedly, I don't tune in for our games, so I can't tell if there's anything subjective that we're doing better (effort, heart, desire, etc). However, through 11 conference games last year, we were 3-8. This year we're 4-7. Of course, last year our record was blamed on us being decimated by covid. If not for that, it was presumed we'd have been much better. But we're only marginally better this year, at least on paper. Is there reason to believe this squad can round into form for next year?

I'm not strongly pro- or anti-Frank. I think it's obvious that we're about as good as we're ever going to be under him, but maybe we're as good we can ever reasonably expect to be. Two or 3 years ago I was hepped on firing him, but I'm pretty indifferent now.

That you don't tune in for games is telling. I don't tune in as well.

The only time I've seen any MBB this season is the last few minutes of the F$U game. Too bad it wasn't a harbinger of things to come.

 

[gsb16]

This team is better than last year's team. However, still not good enough. I'm ready for new leadership for the program. And I have men that I would prefer for the job. I don't have any influence on what will happen. I'm just stating my opinion.

 

[atl-cock]

This team is better than last year's team. However, still not good enough. I'm ready for new leadership for the program. And I have men that I would prefer for the job. I don't have any influence on what will happen. I'm just stating my opinion.

Ideally, unless you are the AD, you should have no/not much influence.

 

[Legal_fowl]

I'd be surprised if he is retained beyond this year, but not shocked.

I just hope that when the time comes that he bows out graciously and humbly instead of becoming hostile and arrogant.

 

[atl-cock]

I'd be surprised if he is retained beyond this year, but not shocked.

I just hope that when the time comes that he bows out graciously and humbly instead of becoming hostile and arrogant.

Unfortunately, the time is at the end of this season, IMO.

 

[Legal_fowl]

Unfortunately, the time is at the end of this season, IMO.

I like Frank and have defended him over the years, but the time has come to cut the ties that bind.

 

[SILVERSPUR-rier]

To me one question would be, will he do more than $3M in actual economic harm to the program by keeping him on one more year so that the buy-out then becomes $0.00. If we replace him, will there be more than $3M in new ticket sales or other actual new money coming coming in? Not having to pay him and his staff more than $3M (on top of a new coach/staff salary) would make some economic sense, where that money could be used for facility upgrades, etc. Any new coach we bring in will need 3-4 years to hopefully get the program "righted". Does it make a difference whether that starts this year or next? Again, not from an emotional standpoint, but simply straight economics.

 

[atl-cock]

To me one question would be, will he do more than $3M in actual economic harm to the program by keeping him on one more year so that the buy-out then becomes $0.00. If we replace him, will there be more than $3M in new ticket sales or other actual new money coming coming in? Not having to pay him and his staff more than $3M (on top of a new coach/staff salary) would make some economic sense, where that money could be used for facility upgrades, etc. Any new coach we bring in will need 3-4 years to hopefully get the program "righted". Does it make a difference whether that starts this year or next? Again, not from an emotional standpoint, but simply straight economics.

Stated like a responsible Athletic Director.

 

[Horseshoe04]

In most other cases the win loss record matters.

somehow we don’t use that metric here for evaluation anymore.

so you are what your record says you are seems not too apply

everything else is conjecture and usually leads to thread arguments and insults but I think even both of those sides are close to numb so the fire has been more like the 99cent water pistol from waves at SurfSide beach

 

[Atlanta Cock]

Stated like a responsible Athletic Director.

But what if you just don’t like him? I’m not going to rehash arguments that have been made ad infinitum. Personally I think he’s a bad coach, and I just don’t like him. As a result, I don’t attend games and really don’t follow them. My knowledge of MBB is primarily from this Board. Is it no longer a factor if alums and fans are that turned off? Sports are supposed to be fun and are designed to add something to the college experience, right?

 

[gsb16]

I thought the game at uga was our best SEC game this season. If we can continue to play like that, we'll be competitive in most, or all, of our remaining games.

 

[Legendary Cock]

I thought the game at uga was our best SEC game this season. If we can continue to play like that, we'll be competitive in most, or all, of our remaining games.

The problem is that we can't continue to play the likes of Georgia every week.

 

[gsb16]

The problem is that we can't continue to play the likes of Georgia every week.

We'll see what happens with the other teams. If we play well, we should have a chance against most of the remaining schedule. If we don't play well, we could lose to anyone.

 

[Tngamecock]

That you don't tune in for games is telling. I don't tune in as well.

The only time I've seen any MBB this season is the last few minutes of the F$U game. Too bad it wasn't a harbinger of things to come.

I tune in because I love any and all things Gamecocks. Plus, I like to get angry every Saturday and Wed/ Thurs

 

[atl-cock]

I tune in because I love any and all things Gamecocks. Plus, I like to get angry every Saturday and Wed/ Thurs

I love things Gamecock too, But I dislike "false promises" even more.

 

[Legendary Cock]

We'll see what happens with the other teams. If we play well, we should have a chance against most of the remaining schedule. If we don't play well, we could lose to anyone.

Maybe. But it sure feels like we've all seen this movie over and over again. And we've all seen how it ends.

 

[atl-cock]

Maybe. But it sure feels like we've all seen this movie over and over again. And we've all seen how it ends.

Thank you. I'm tired of beating this dead horse.

 

[Rogue Cock]

To me one question would be, will he do more than $3M in actual economic harm to the program by keeping him on one more year so that the buy-out then becomes $0.00. If we replace him, will there be more than $3M in new ticket sales or other actual new money coming coming in? Not having to pay him and his staff more than $3M (on top of a new coach/staff salary) would make some economic sense, where that money could be used for facility upgrades, etc. Any new coach we bring in will need 3-4 years to hopefully get the program "righted". Does it make a difference whether that starts this year or next? Again, not from an emotional standpoint, but simply straight economics.

Martin had two years prior to this year, both higher than the renegotiated buyouts to give him two additional years at a $0.00 buyout. At the end of this year it is $3M. at the end of next year it is somewhere between $0 and $3M, I believe based on a formula and the last two are $0.00. The two additional years costs us nothing and reduces what his buyout would have been under the final two years of his existing contract.

 

[DRUMSTICK]

I'm not strongly pro- or anti-Frank. I think it's obvious that we're about as good as we're ever going to be under him, but maybe we're as good we can ever reasonably expect to be. Two or 3 years ago I was hepped on firing him, but I'm pretty indifferent now.

Not being critical at all. Unfortunately though, I don't think you could have posted a more damning comment .... 'but, I'm pretty much indifferent now.'

Right up there with, "I used to love you but, I really don't care anymore, in fact, I don't even think about you anymore. I just don't care!"
I'm right there with you. I'm tired of all the hoping & praying. I'm tired of all the hype & arguing. But, most of all I'm tired of all the excuses and BS (especially from The Fans). When defending underachievement, no one should be allowed to use the word "IF".

Lou Holtz said it, 'Ya gotta change the culture at Carolina.' .500 IS NOT AVERAGE. A game or two over .500 IS NOT ABOVE AVERAGE. It's mediocre, that's all.

I certainly realize that some joker is going to reply with the ole "AMERICA, Love it or Leave it." routine. That didn't work back in the 70's but, some fool will sincerely feel a burning need to tell me to go find another team.

I've said too much already. But, the real problem is when Good People don't say anything at all.

 

[Legal_fowl]

Martin had two years prior to this year, both higher than the renegotiated buyouts to give him two additional years at a $0.00 buyout. At the end of this year it is $3M. at the end of next year it is somewhere between $0 and $3M, I believe based on a formula and the last two are $0.00. The two additional years costs us nothing and reduces what his buyout would have been under the final two years of his existing contract.

Costs us nothing?

 

[Legal_fowl]

Not being critical at all. Unfortunately though, I don't think you could have posted a more damning comment .... 'but, I'm pretty much indifferent now.'

Right up there with, "I used to love you but, I really don't care anymore, in fact, I don't even think about you anymore. I just don't care!"
I'm right there with you. I'm tired of all the hoping & praying. I'm tired of all the hype & arguing. But, most of all I'm tired of all the excuses and BS (especially from The Fans). When defending underachievement, no one should be allowed to use the word "IF".

Lou Holtz said it, 'Ya gotta change the culture at Carolina.' .500 IS NOT AVERAGE. A game or two over .500 IS NOT ABOVE AVERAGE. It's mediocre, that's all.

I certainly realize that some joker is going to reply with the ole "AMERICA, Love it or Leave it." routine. That didn't work back in the 70's but, some fool will sincerely feel a burning need to tell me to go find another team.

I've said too much already. But, the real problem is when Good People don't say anything at all.

I think the reason a change must be made this year is because of the highlighted text. At least people like to come and watch Keyshawn and Jermaine play. Next year will not be an improvement on this year without those two guys.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Costs us nothing?

Nope....not the extension and renogiation of the buyout. Saves us money actually.

 

[Atlanta Cock]

Nope....not the extension and renogiation of the buyout. Saves us money actually.

How about the 8-13 year olds who have completely tuned out SC? Or the middle aged or older who have decided no longer to contribute while Frank is the coach or while RT is AD? Does that factor in with you?

 

[Rogue Cock]

How about the 8-13 year olds who have completely tuned out SC? Or the middle aged or older who have decided no longer to contribute while Frank is the coach or while RT is AD? Does that factor in with you?

I want him gone.....never wanted him hired in the first place. All I am saying is the "new" renegotiated contract makes it cheaper to get rid of him as of April ! than it would have been had nothing been done. I am not so sure why that is so confusing to many.

 

[Atlanta Cock]

I want him gone.....never wanted him hired in the first place. All I am saying is the "new" renegotiated contract makes it cheaper to get rid of him as of April ! than it would have been had nothing been done. I am not so sure why that is so confusing to many.

I haven’t read the contract, but if we only need to wait until April, then I would agree to a NFL type deal where everything is lined up in advance with the new coach so that we’re not starting on April 2.

 

[Fried Chicken]

Frank, today, said we are in a good spot with 6 games to go. My first thought was that if he believes this…the expectations are FAR too low.

Then I gave the benefit of the doubt and just chose to believe he’s not that dumb…he’s just saying what he has to say to get his team to believe.

Still, we’re not in “good” shape by any means.

 

[Legal_fowl]

Nope....not the extension and renogiation of the buyout. Saves us money actually.

I think there is a cost if he stays another season under the renegotiated contract and it can be measured in dollars.

 

[Rogue Cock]

I think there is a cost if he stays another season under the renegotiated contract and it can be measured in dollars.

.....and it would have cost us a lot more financially under the then exiisting contract to get rid of him at the end of this year or next. Which would you rather have???

 

[atl-cock]

.....and it would have cost us a lot more financially under the then existing contract to get rid of him at the end of this year or next. Which would you rather have???

Of course, this too is a responsibility of the Athletic Director.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Of course, this too is a responsibility of the Athletic Director.

The AD by agreeing to renegotiate the contract (by extending the time but reducing the buyout) made it a lot more difficult for the president, BOT or legislature to complain and veto getting rid of Martin. Everyone knew that Martin had to have 4 years on a contract to recruit....take advantage of it. The AD did a helluva job.

 

[atl-cock]

The AD by agreeing to renegotiate the contract (by extending the time but reducing the buyout) made it a lot more difficult for the president, BOT or legislature to complain and veto getting rid of Martin. Everyone knew that Martin had to have 4 years on a contract to recruit....take advantage of it. The AD did a helluva job.

Part of AD 101.

 

[Rogue Cock]

, Part of AD 101.s

Perhaps, but if all ADs could do that consistently, then you wouldn't have the situation Auburn is in or Tennessee, SoCal and Florida have been in with its last few coaches.....maybe Texas also. As the old adage goes....the grass is always greener....