Miami Dolphins failure

[PrestonyteParrot]

'What if I wasn't Tyreek Hill?' is a question that will carry with resounding impact."
If anyone disobeys, disrespects and is non-compliant to law enforcement they will get the same treatment, so why are the Dolphins defending Hill's behavior and demanding punishment for the officer?

Footage shows Hill pulled from car to pavement

Newly released body camera footage of the detainment of Miami Dolphins receiver Tyreek Hill shows Miami-Dade police officers pulling the star player out of his car and forcing him to the pavement before putting him in handcuffs Sunday in Miami Gardens.

www.espn.com

 

[KingWard]

I don't even know where to go with this. All I'll say is "obey the police" and move on.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Keeping the window rolled down doesn't seem like a hard request to comply with.

People never understand from the perspective of the police. 99% of the time, it's probably just a guy being a jerk and not wanting to obey. But police have to assume it might be that 1% where a guy might have a gun in his car and is rolling the tinted window up so he can pull it out. Yes, most traffic stops are mundane, but police can't make any assumptions.

 

[Piscis]

Keeping the window rolled down doesn't seem like a hard request to comply with.

People never understand from the perspective of the police. 99% of the time, it's probably just a guy being a jerk and not wanting to obey. But police have to assume it might be that 1% where a guy might have a gun in his car and is rolling the tinted window up so he can pull it out. Yes, most traffic stops are mundane, but police can't make any assumptions.

A certain segment of the population seems to think regulations, laws and police instructions aren't binding on them.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Somewhat off topic, but whenever we talk to our kids (7, 5 and 3) we always tell them they can trust police and should always obey police, even if they don't think they did anything wrong.

Well, we had some missionaries to Kenya in our church on Sunday and the guy was talking about some general things and giving some humorous anecdotes. He told a story about being pulled over for speeding and being issued a ticket by a cop who was using a hair dryer as a radar gun. That prompted a million questions from older daughter about how a hair dryer could be used as a radar gun, which led to an explanation that police in other countries sometimes are not good/honest, which led to other questions about how they could be police if they aren't honest. It ended with "don't worry about it. you can trust the police here."

 

[92Pony]

Didn't read that article, but did see some of the BC footage this morning on TV. Officers want to talk to him and dude rolls up his windows, telling them not to knock on his window like that.
Entitlement.

Stop thinking you're better than someone else, or deserve to be treated better than someone else - for any reason - and simply work with the police on a routine traffic stop. Why is that so hard for some people to do????? Had TH done just that, he probably would have received a speeding ticket, and maybe a tint ticket (don't know about all states laws on that) and been sent on his way. But noooooo........ I don't feel for him a bit.

 

[LonghornsGamecocks]

I didn't watch the video but I read the part of the transcript from the initial confrontation up to where Hill's teammate arrived and was subsequently arrested.

Blatant defiance of innocuous police requests (i.e. "roll your window down,") and antagonistic language (i.e. "you don't tell me what to do,") is a one way ticket to a bad situation. No excuse for that IMO.

Should the officer have escalated to opening the door and forcefully removing Hill from the car and to the ground so swiftly? I don't know what officer training or police best practices are there, but I think perhaps a bit more verbal communication and/or slower more deliberate physical responses would have been a better path. My observation of that is independent of Hill's actions and not a defense of Hill's actions.

Let's game theory this. Let's say you're a person who, for whatever reason, doesn't like and/or doesn't trust the police - fine. That's your prerogative. BUT, when is it EVER in your best interests to engage with an officer in an antagonistic manner, especially for an innocuous moving violation? Game theory here ALWAYS says, be polite, follow orders, have a clean and tidy interaction, and everyone goes on about their day quickly and with little to no drama. So I just don't understand why anyone would respond in the manner Hill did.

Separately, I find the arrest of the other player very curious based on the transcript of the video footage. As opposed to Hill, he seemed to be communicating with the officers in a very transparent and productive and non threatening manner. I haven't watched the video, so maybe I'm missing more context, but that seemed unnecessary.

Just my two cents, which really don't matter at all

 

[18IsTheMan]

I didn't watch the video but I read the part of the transcript from the initial confrontation up to where Hill's teammate arrived and was subsequently arrested.

Blatant defiance of innocuous police requests (i.e. "roll your window down,") and antagonistic language (i.e. "you don't tell me what to do,") is a one way ticket to a bad situation. No excuse for that IMO.

Should the officer have escalated to opening the door and forcefully removing Hill from the car and to the ground so swiftly? I don't know what officer training or police best practices are there, but I think perhaps a bit more verbal communication and/or slower more deliberate physical responses would have been a better path. My observation of that is independent of Hill's actions and not a defense of Hill's actions.

Let's game theory this. Let's say you're a person who, for whatever reason, doesn't like and/or doesn't trust the police - fine. That's your prerogative. BUT, when is it EVER in your best interests to engage with an officer in an antagonistic manner, especially for an innocuous moving violation? Game theory here ALWAYS says, be polite, follow orders, have a clean and tidy interaction, and everyone goes on about their day quickly and with little to no drama. So I just don't understand why anyone would respond in the manner Hill did.

Separately, I find the arrest of the other player very curious based on the transcript of the video footage. As opposed to Hill, he seemed to be communicating with the officers in a very transparent and productive and non threatening manner. I haven't watched the video, so maybe I'm missing more context, but that seemed unnecessary.

Just my two cents, which really don't matter at all

Officers are in a tight spot.

If they are involved in an interaction where the culprit does 100 things wrong and the officer in response slips up and does 1 thing wrong, the 100 things by the culprit are totally dismissed and the 1 think the officer did is blown up.

 

[LonghornsGamecocks]

Somewhat off topic, but whenever we talk to our kids (7, 5 and 3) we always tell them they can trust police and should always obey police, even if they don't think they did anything wrong.

Well, we had some missionaries to Kenya in our church on Sunday and the guy was talking about some general things and giving some humorous anecdotes. He told a story about being pulled over for speeding and being issued a ticket by a cop who was using a hair dryer as a radar gun. That prompted a million questions from older daughter about how a hair dryer could be used as a radar gun, which led to an explanation that police in other countries sometimes are not good/honest, which led to other questions about how they could be police if they aren't honest. It ended with "don't worry about it. you can trust the police here."

Generally agree. And even in unfortunate situations where police aren't trustworthy or acting in good faith, comporting oneself well and communicating clearly, respectfully, and safely will almost always lead to the best possible outcome

 

[LonghornsGamecocks]

Officers are in a tight spot.

If they are involved in an interaction where the culprit does 100 things wrong and the officer in response slips up and does 1 thing wrong, the 100 things by the culprit are totally dismissed and the 1 think the officer did is blown up.

I agree. Officers are in a tight spot in so many ways. I have lots of sympathy and understanding for that. One of my closest friends is a Texas State Trooper and we've had interesting conversations about all the nuances and difficulties of the job. I don't believe officers should have carte blanche, but I do believe they should be provided significant latitude to be proactive and be protected by benefit of doubt.

I don't ever remember civics courses in school teaching about how to have positive and productive law enforcement interactions. Seems to me that would be a very valuable thing to teach our children and citizens

 

[Piscis]

Somewhat off topic, but whenever we talk to our kids (7, 5 and 3) we always tell them they can trust police and should always obey police, even if they don't think they did anything wrong.

Well, we had some missionaries to Kenya in our church on Sunday and the guy was talking about some general things and giving some humorous anecdotes. He told a story about being pulled over for speeding and being issued a ticket by a cop who was using a hair dryer as a radar gun. That prompted a million questions from older daughter about how a hair dryer could be used as a radar gun, which led to an explanation that police in other countries sometimes are not good/honest, which led to other questions about how they could be police if they aren't honest. It ended with "don't worry about it. you can trust the police here."

I felt that way about police until I got to know a couple attorneys who told me the police are not trustworthy and are not trying to help you or make you safer whenever they stop you. They told me to comply with the police but not to say anything more than absolutely necessary. They pointed out that the police can legally lie to you during their investigation but if you lie to them you will be charged with lying to the police. Most police have very little actual legal training and honestly think the "because I'm the police and I told you to" provides valid legal grounds to order anyone to do anything.

Sadly, there are more than a few police who are power crazy and get off on pushing their weight around. Most are good and trying to do their jobs as best they can but there are enough bad ones that it pays to know your basic rights.

 

[The Reel Ess]

I find it hard to muster any sympathy for someone that once punched his pregnant GF in the stomach. In all likelihood he later broke that child's arm. And I'm a Dolphins fan. Hill is trash.

Tyreek Hill - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[18IsTheMan]

I agree. Officers are in a tight spot in so many ways. I have lots of sympathy and understanding for that. One of my closest friends is a Texas State Trooper and we've had interesting conversations about all the nuances and difficulties of the job. I don't believe officers should have carte blanche, but I do believe they should be provided significant latitude to be proactive and be protected by benefit of doubt.

I don't ever remember civics courses in school teaching about how to have positive and productive law enforcement interactions. Seems to me that would be a very valuable thing to teach our children and citizens

Excellent point to the latter. Sadly, I think probably the opposite is going on.

Officers, on the one hand, have to assume, in a way, that every interaction COULD escalate and become potentially lethal for them. They just never know when one of the thousands of mundane interactions they have will turn into someone pulling a gun or knife on them or something. On the other hand, they have to exhibit great "customer service' and treat everyone respectfully and kindly.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I felt that way about police until I got to know a couple attorneys who told me the police are not trustworthy and are not trying to help you or make you safer whenever they stop you. They told me to comply with the police but not to say anything more than absolutely necessary. They pointed out that the police can legally lie to you during their investigation but if you lie to them you will be charged with lying to the police. Most police have very little actual legal training and honestly think the "because I'm the police and I told you to" provides valid legal grounds to order anyone to do anything.

Sadly, there are more than a few police who are power crazy and get off on pushing their weight around. Most are good and trying to do their jobs as best they can but there are enough bad ones that it pays to know your basic rights.

Obviously, yeah, of the hundreds of thousands of police officers in America, not all of them are good, upstanding and honest. That's not the point, though. The overwhelming vast majority strive to do the job honestly and with integrity. The odds that any one person is going to have an interaction with a corrupt officer is fairly slim in the big picture. It goes to the earlier point, though, no matter what, there is little to be gained from non-compliance. Unless you're in a situation where the entire police for and DA's office and court system is corrupt, the wise thing to do is just comply.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

Keeping the window rolled down doesn't seem like a hard request to comply with.

People never understand from the perspective of the police. 99% of the time, it's probably just a guy being a jerk and not wanting to obey. But police have to assume it might be that 1% where a guy might have a gun in his car and is rolling the tinted window up so he can pull it out. Yes, most traffic stops are mundane, but police can't make any assumptions.

For all the officer knew, he rolled the window up to get a weapon.
With all the cars having ''dark windows'' I would fear approaching cars as a Law Enforcement Officer.

 

[The Reel Ess]

A certain segment of the population seems to think regulations, laws and police instructions aren't binding on them.

I remember the riots in the aftermath of the Michael Brown shooting. It turned out Mr. Brown thought he was going to shoplift a snack, assault the store owner, beat a cop's ***, then go home and have dinner like nothing ever happened.

 

[Piscis]

Obviously, yeah, of the hundreds of thousands of police officers in America, not all of them are good, upstanding and honest. That's not the point, though. The overwhelming vast majority strive to do the job honestly and with integrity. The odds that any one person is going to have an interaction with a corrupt officer is fairly slim in the big picture. It goes to the earlier point, though, no matter what, there is little to be gained from non-compliance. Unless you're in a situation where the entire police for and DA's office and court system is corrupt, the wise thing to do is just comply.

I agree completely about the complying part. Like I said, comply with the police and say as little as possible. If a cop tells you to get out of the car, get out of the car, don't argue about it. You are under no obligation to assist the cop in his investigation but it is foolish to argue and refuse to comply with a cops instructions.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Has anyone cried when talking about this incident yet?

Seems the narrative won't be complete until someone from the Dolphins or media gets choked up while discussing the incident.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Maybe don't recklessly drive 100 mph in a McLaren.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

nm

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

Has anyone cried when talking about this incident yet?

Seems the narrative won't be complete until someone from the Dolphins or media gets choked up while discussing the incident.

Someone in the Dolphin's PR Dept. should be crying because they were fired for writing/disseminated this press release.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Maybe don't recklessly drive 100 mph in a McLaren.

The great irony of the whole thing is that Hill said he didn't leave his window rolled down because he didn't want make a spectacle of himself.

In refusing to comply, he has made a far bigger spectacle of himself.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Maybe don't recklessly drive 100 mph in a McLaren.

...and don't be late to work and expect the police to hurry themselves up so you can try to be on time.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Don't know much about the situation, but it's foolish to just trust law enforcement. Never roll your window down all the way. Don't answer questions. Be polite.

You should be prepared for these interactions even if you never have them. There are a ton of videos online, made by Attorneys, with good advice.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

...and don't be late to work and expect the police to hurry themselves up so you can try to be on time.

If he had called to request a police escort to the stadium they might have obliged.

 

[KingWard]

I find it hard to muster any sympathy for someone that once punched his pregnant GF in the stomach. In all likelihood he later broke that child's arm. And I'm a Dolphins fan. Hill is trash.

Tyreek Hill - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He won't be calling you as a character witness, then?

 

[KingWard]

Has anyone cried when talking about this incident yet?

Seems the narrative won't be complete until someone from the Dolphins or media gets choked up while discussing the incident.

Well, his coach was on the edge of it yesterday. Pathetic.

 

[adcoop]

Keeping the window rolled down doesn't seem like a hard request to comply with.

People never understand from the perspective of the police. 99% of the time, it's probably just a guy being a jerk and not wanting to obey. But police have to assume it might be that 1% where a guy might have a gun in his car and is rolling the tinted window up so he can pull it out. Yes, most traffic stops are mundane, but police can't make any assumptions.

I agree. Officers are in a tight spot in so many ways. I have lots of sympathy and understanding for that. One of my closest friends is a Texas State Trooper and we've had interesting conversations about all the nuances and difficulties of the job. I don't believe officers should have carte blanche, but I do believe they should be provided significant latitude to be proactive and be protected by benefit of doubt.

I don't ever remember civics courses in school teaching about how to have positive and productive law enforcement interactions. Seems to me that would be a very valuable thing to teach our children and citizens

For all the officer knew, he rolled the window up to get a weapon.
With all the cars having ''dark windows'' I would fear approaching cars as a Law Enforcement Officer.

Now you are reaching. Tyreek was dead wrong for rolling his windows back up. However, as a cop it's good to know your context clues as well. You are blocks away from the stadium on gameday. There is a black guy driving a car that costs more than your house. Two other mountainous (one of them is 6'9" over 300lbs) black guys in expensive luxury cars come over to de-escalate. At some point, it should kick in that this is probably someone that plays for the Dolphins, maybe I should de-escalate a little bit. Tyreek was being an "***". Kind of fits his history, but you can't have the star player for the Dolphins laid out on the pavement screaming in his ear either.

 

[Gamecock72]

 

[kidrobinski]

Now you are reaching. Tyreek was dead wrong for rolling his windows back up. However, as a cop it's good to know your context clues as well. You are blocks away from the stadium on gameday. There is a black guy driving a car that costs more than your house. Two other mountainous (one of them is 6'9" over 300lbs) black guys in expensive luxury cars come over to de-escalate. At some point, it should kick in that this is probably someone that plays for the Dolphins, maybe I should de-escalate a little bit. Tyreek was being an "***". Kind of fits his history, but you can't have the star player for the Dolphins laid out on the pavement screaming in his ear either.

Nah; baloney.

"Cops" (I assume you meant law enforcement) are in our society for a reason; a very good and a very valid reason. To enforce the law.

Obey the law. If not and you are detained, do as the officer says. Its the tough guys that want to throw out rights and demands that have worked to put officers in the position they now find themselves, and I know there are a__wipes in law enforcement also; I have experienced them personally, but thats not the point. When you are detained, thats not a daycare center where whats "fair" is the rule of the day.

Its not particularly hard.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

Now you are reaching. Tyreek was dead wrong for rolling his windows back up. However, as a cop it's good to know your context clues as well. You are blocks away from the stadium on gameday. There is a black guy driving a car that costs more than your house. Two other mountainous (one of them is 6'9" over 300lbs) black guys in expensive luxury cars come over to de-escalate. At some point, it should kick in that this is probably someone that plays for the Dolphins, maybe I should de-escalate a little bit. Tyreek was being an "***". Kind of fits his history, but you can't have the star player for the Dolphins laid out on the pavement screaming in his ear either.

There are many ''expensive luxury cars'' roaming the streets of Miami/Dade County loaded with felons.
Disobey, disrespect and fail to follow instructions of an officer and you get the same treatment regardless of who you are even if you look like a football player and are near the stadium.

 

[Lurker123]

There many ''expensive luxury cars'' roaming the streets of Miami/Dade County loaded with felons.
Disobey, disrespect and fail to follow instructions of an officer and you get the same treatment regardless of who you are even if you look like a football player and are near the stadium.

Yeah, not sure an officer should assume something about a guy, like being a Dolphin, and then treating them differently.

 

[Gamecock72]

I did see reported on ESPN that one of the cops was placed on administrative duty while this is being investigated.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Yeah, not sure an officer should assume something about a guy, like being a Dolphin, and then treating them differently.

Officers just can't assume anything. I don't think some people realize that. I doubt most of work in jobs where we have people in society who want to kill us. That's just the daily reality for officers. Most people, of course, don't want kill officers, but some do and they can't assume that none of them do.

I recall when I first got my driver's license, my family was going on a trip from TN to PA. We took 2 cars and I drove the trailing car. We were driving around 10 pm and I was getting drowsy and apparently drifting over the line, so I was pulled over. As the officer was talking to me, my dad, in the lead, car obviously pulled over at the same time and he stepped out of the car, which was a natural thing for a father to do. The officer immediately moved his hand towards his gun and politely barked (if that's a thing) at my dad to get back in the vehicle. It's pitch black on the interstate and you don't know who you're pulling over. Could he have reasonably assumed "this kid is obviously a new driver and that middle age guy up there is probably his dad"? Sure. Should he have? Absolutely not.

What would happen to that officer if he had let Tyreek go and it turns out he was a drug dealer wanted for murder and he went on to kill someone shortly after? If the officer said "well, he was driving a super nice car and near the stadium so I assumed he was a football player" he'd be fired on the spot.

 

[atl-cock]

Didn't read that article, but did see some of the BC footage this morning on TV. Officers want to talk to him and dude rolls up his windows, telling them not to knock on his window like that.
Entitlement.

Stop thinking you're better than someone else, or deserve to be treated better than someone else - for any reason - and simply work with the police on a routine traffic stop. Why is that so hard for some people to do????? Had TH done just that, he probably would have received a speeding ticket, and maybe a tint ticket (don't know about all states laws on that) and been sent on his way. But noooooo........ I don't feel for him a bit.

"Work with police." I like that.

 

[atl-cock]

Generally agree. And even in unfortunate situations where police aren't trustworthy or acting in good faith, comporting oneself well and communicating clearly, respectfully, and safely will almost always lead to the best possible outcome

Even if the best possible outcome isn't the ideal outcome.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Nah; baloney.

"Cops" (I assume you meant law enforcement) are in our society for a reason; a very good and a very valid reason. To enforce the law.

Obey the law. If not and you are detained, do as the officer says. Its the tough guys that want to throw out rights and demands that have worked to put officers in the position they now find themselves, and I know there are a__wipes in law enforcement also; I have experienced them personally, but thats not the point. When you are detained, thats not a daycare center where whats "fair" is the rule of the day.

Its not particularly hard.

I try to be a law abiding citizen. It makes the job easier for police.

 

[The Reel Ess]

He won't be calling you as a character witness, then?

"Character"

 

[Gamecock72]

I 100% agree that Hill did not handle the stop in the best way. But also, IMO, nothing Hill did justified the cop treating him like he did. I think both were wrong in this situation.

 

[BoneSpur]

There is a 1% chance the person in the car had a loaded gun. The said person broke the law by speeding. Once said person broke the law, the law authorities did what they thought they had to do. Authorities asked for him to roll down the window and comply. This is where said person's "rights" go out the window. He is being perceived as a criminal at this point. It may be a little over the top but I am going to use one of my favorite sayings here, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6".

No one is above the law...