New database ranks 4,500 US colleges and universities by return on investment

[OuiRPSU]

Some Big 10 schools from https://finance.yahoo.com/news/new-...lleges-by-return-on-investment-155443063.html:

Northwestern is 68
Michigan is 81
Illinois is 117
Wisconsin is 207
Rutgers is 215
Michigan State is 316
Indiana is 352
Penn State University Park is 486
Ohio State is 541

The entire database is at https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/roi2022/.

 

[BobPSU92]

barren laughs at ROI and can’t even spell it.

 

[kgilbert78]

Given that I spent under $10K, total (back in the late 1970s), mine was pretty good. Mind you I lived at home the firsy two years and had a scholarship for those years (but tutiton was a hair over $1K).

 

[Nitt1300]

 

[BobPSU92]

The world needs ditch diggers too.

 

[PSUFTG]

Ranked by Net Present Value (finance people will understand the concept, but in layman's terms it is a measure of the degree to which going to the university - rather than just leaving high school and going to work - pays off)

On that measure, over a ten-year period, Penn State not only ranks dead last in the Big Ten, but ranks dead last by a large margin.
And comes in at 3,248th of the 4,500 colleges and universities studied (Nebraska ranks next to last in the Big Ten, at 2,556th overall).

Things are going great. Leadership!

 

[Nitt1300]

The world needs ditch diggers too.

yep- actual work still has value

 

[fairgambit]

Some Big 10 schools from https://finance.yahoo.com/news/new-...lleges-by-return-on-investment-155443063.html:

Northwestern is 68
Michigan is 81
Illinois is 117
Wisconsin is 207
Rutgers is 215
Michigan State is 316
Indiana is 352
Penn State University Park is 486
Ohio State is 541

Penn State continues a slow, but perceptible, decline into mediocrity. I have hopes the new President will reverse the trend, but with the current BOT, I am not optimistic.

 

[Moogy]

Ranked by Net Present Value (finance people will understand the concept, but in layman's terms it is a measure of the degree to which going to the university - rather than just leaving high school and going to work - pays off)

On that measure, over a ten-year period, Penn State not only ranks dead last in the Big Ten, but ranks dead last by a large margin.
And comes in at 3,248th of the 4,500 colleges and universities studied (Nebraska ranks next to last in the Big Ten, at 2,556th overall).

Things are going great. Leadership!

Or, looked at another way, PSU grads are absolutely killing it in ROI compared to their competition in years 11-40.

 

[BobPSU92]

Penn State continues a slow, but perceptible, decline into mediocrity. I have hopes the new President will reverse the trend, but with the current BOT, I am not optimistic.

Enough with the slow decline. Get it over with already.

 

[GrimReaper]

The world needs ditch diggers too.

You mean backhoe operators.

 

[BobPSU92]

You mean backhoe operators.

Skilled labor.

 

[91Joe95]

Top 500. Woo. Hoo. PSU should put it on the website.

 

[BobPSU92]

Top 500. Woo. Hoo. PSU should put it on the website.

The Fortune 500 is good. So is the ROI 500.

Anyway, PSU’s leaderers are all having a good laugh. PSU isn’t for the low-monied.

 

[J.E.B]

Some Big 10 schools from https://finance.yahoo.com/news/new-...lleges-by-return-on-investment-155443063.html:

Northwestern is 68
Michigan is 81
Illinois is 117
Wisconsin is 207
Rutgers is 215
Michigan State is 316
Indiana is 352
Penn State University Park is 486
Ohio State is 541

The entire database is at https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/roi2022/.

#4 in the state of Pa.

 

[PSUFTG]

Penn State continues a slow, but perceptible, decline into mediocrity. I have hopes the new President will reverse the trend, but with the current BOT, I am not optimistic.

10 Year NPV (out of 4,500 colleges and universities nationwide)


Big Ten Universities, in order:
1- Michigan
2 - Illinois
3 - Northwestern
4 - Maryland
5 - Purdue
6 - Wisconsin
7 - Indiana
8 - Minnesota
9 - Rutgers
10 - Michigan State
11 - Iowa
12 - Ohio State
13 - Nebraska
14 - Penn State

 

[LionJim]

10 Year NPV (out of 4,500 colleges and universities nationwide)


Big Ten Universities, in order:
1- Michigan
2 - Illinois
3 - Northwestern
4 - Maryland
5 - Purdue
6 - Wisconsin
7 - Indiana
8 - Minnesota
9 - Rutgers
10 - Michigan State
11 - Iowa
12 - Ohio State
13 - Nebraska
14 - Penn State

Thanks for the comprehensive list. Am I the only one having a hard time navigating the site? I got to be missing something.

Glad to see Maryland #4. Illinois #2, wow. (Mrs. LionJim is an Illinois native; did not attend UI.)

 

[PSUFTG]

Thanks for the comprehensive list. Am I the only one having a hard time navigating the site? I got to be missing something.

Glad to see Maryland #4. Illinois #2, wow. (Mrs. LionJim is an Illinois native; did not attend UI.)

The list does have some sort features, but is not really very user friendly.
ie, doesn't seem to allow multi-parameter sorting - so you may have to look at each university you are interested in separately (unless they are all in the same state or some such thing).

 

[Nitwit]

These lists are great if you want to work getting your hands in other peoples crap. It doesn’t measure intellectual returns towards a richer more fulfilling life. I’d rather not be fixing toilets thank you, no matter what the pay. I’d rather be a substitute art teacher making $50k than a plumber making $150k.

 

[OuiRPSU]

These lists are great if you want to work getting your hands in other peoples crap. It doesn’t measure intellectual returns towards a richer more fulfilling life. I’d rather not be fixing toilets thank you, no matter what the pay. I’d rather be a substitute art teacher making $50k than a plumber making $150k.

I’d also rather be a substitute art teacher making $50k…

…says every substitute art teacher making nowhere near that.

 

[BobPSU92]

I’d also rather be a substitute art teacher making $50k…

…says every substitute art teacher making nowhere near that.

The ones making $50k must have graduated from one of those high-ROI universities, not PSU.

 

[step.eng69]

You mean backhoe operators.

Skilled labor.

Been there, done that.
Penn State grad in Civil Eng. Professional Engineer licensed in three states, 30 yr member of Local 542 Operating Engineers (11 yrs active), 15 yr member of Local 1595 Brotherhood of Carpenters (2.5 yrs active…fell 20 ft, ended all construction surveying activities forever more)
38 yrs in the practice of bridge, civil, structural engineering & construction management

 

[Bob78]

barren laughs at ROI and can’t even spell it.

In fairness, did they even spot him the R and O?

Still, guessing he isn't a Wordle-on-the-john kind of guy.

 

[BobPSU92]

In fairness, did they even spot him the R and O?

barren got the ‘I’, as in, “I need more onion dip.”

 

[ApexLion]

Been there, done that.
Penn State grad in Civil Eng. Professional Engineer licensed in three states, 30 yr member of Local 542 Operating Engineers (11 yrs active), 15 yr member of Local 1595 Brotherhood of Carpenters (2.5 yrs active…fell 20 ft, ended all construction surveying activities forever more)
38 yrs in the practice of bridge, civil, structural engineering & construction management

but can you dance?

 

[ApexLion]

Some Big 10 schools from https://finance.yahoo.com/news/new-...lleges-by-return-on-investment-155443063.html:

Northwestern is 68
Michigan is 81
Illinois is 117
Wisconsin is 207
Rutgers is 215
Michigan State is 316
Indiana is 352
Penn State University Park is 486
Ohio State is 541

The entire database is at https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/roi2022/.

This is actually something to pay attention to because parents are listening. Some universities have begun, for example to tout research opportunities regardless of major. PSU only offers those opportunities in technical degree programs whereas others do so throughout the university. That leads to better resumes and yes better jobs coming out of WhatsamattaU.

Cost goes up, value is going down. Not a good sign.

 

[step.eng69]

but can you dance?

Not a very good dancer, never grabbed the oppertunity to dance with "Cookie" but always like to play board games and spin the bottle with her. My patents lived on the other side of town from where i lived with my grandparents and when I visited them, Cookie was the only friend I had, she lived behind my parents house on Hillside Ave. All of my other friends lived near my grandparents.
We're talking a timeline of 4th to 6th grade.


Cookie >>>>>>

Barbara Woronko Anzalone

www.anzaloneproductionsllc.com

 

[ODShowtime]

These lists are great if you want to work getting your hands in other peoples crap. It doesn’t measure intellectual returns towards a richer more fulfilling life. I’d rather not be fixing toilets thank you, no matter what the pay. I’d rather be a substitute art teacher making $50k than a plumber making $150k.

I'm jealous of the plumbers. My white collar BS job has more crap coming out of every pipe each Monday than a plumber sees in a month.

 

[ApexLion]

Not a very good dancer, never grabbed the oppertunity to dance with "Cookie" but always like to play board games and spin the bottle with her. My patents lived on the other side of town from where i lived with my grandparents and when I visited them, Cookie was the only friend I had, she lived behind my parents house on Hillside Ave. All of my other friends lived near my grandparents.
We're talking a timeline of 4th to 6th grade.


Cookie >>>>>>

Barbara Woronko Anzalone

www.anzaloneproductionsllc.com

Frank might have charmed her. It was good you didn't get mixed up with that broad. You might have had some kneecap issues.

 

[LionJim]

I'm jealous of the plumbers. My white collar BS job has more crap coming out of every pipe each Monday than a plumber sees in a month.

A lot of people say the same. Everyone's happy to see the plumber. Me, I loved my job.

 

[BobPSU92]

I'm jealous of the plumbers. My white collar BS job has more crap coming out of every pipe each Monday than a plumber sees in a month.

 

[ODShowtime]

A lot of people say the same. Everyone's happy to see the plumber. Me, I loved my job.

I can be a sole proprietor with my experience, but it's much more useful in a firm. Which means dealing with arrogant, selfish slave drivers. Not my bag. So here I am wishing there was a clogged toilet with my name on it.

 

[step.eng69]

Frank might have charmed her. It was good you didn't get mixed up with that broad. You might have had some kneecap issues.

Didn't see her again until around 1980 at the Castle Inn in Dallas, PA. After a Lehman Booster Club meeting I was having a few drinks at the bar, she came in, noticed me a sat with me. Haven't gone out of my,since, to say hello.

 

[Moogy]

This is actually something to pay attention to because parents are listening. Some universities have begun, for example to tout research opportunities regardless of major. PSU only offers those opportunities in technical degree programs whereas others do so throughout the university. That leads to better resumes and yes better jobs coming out of WhatsamattaU.

Cost goes up, value is going down. Not a good sign.

What were the results of this study 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago (if it even existed) to make the determination that "value" is going down?

 

[ApexLion]

What were the results of this study 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago (if it even existed) to make the determination that "value" is going down?

We can fall below the worst in the b10?

 

[fairgambit]

Not a very good dancer, never grabbed the oppertunity to dance with "Cookie" but always like to play board games and spin the bottle with her. My patents lived on the other side of town from where i lived with my grandparents and when I visited them, Cookie was the only friend I had, she lived behind my parents house on Hillside Ave. All of my other friends lived near my grandparents.
We're talking a timeline of 4th to 6th grade.


Cookie >>>>>>

Barbara Woronko Anzalone

www.anzaloneproductionsllc.com

 

[Moogy]

We can fall below the worst in the b10?

First, "worst in the b10" is only by 10 year NPV, and not necessarily the other NPVs (definitely not the 40 year ... not sure on the others). Second, there are more universities in the country than those in the Big Ten, so ... yes. Third, we could have already been the worst in the Big Ten years ago, so, even by your own judgment criteria, that wouldn't be decreasing in value.

 

[laKavosiey-st lion]

My kids are killing it. ZFG

 

[PSUFTG]

First, "worst in the b10" is only by 10 year NPV, and not necessarily the other NPVs (definitely not the 40 year ... not sure on the others). Second, there are more universities in the country than those in the Big Ten, so ... yes. Third, we could have already been the worst in the Big Ten years ago, so, even by your own judgment criteria, that wouldn't be decreasing in value.

FWIW: The 40 year Rate of Return has Penn State 12th out of 14 in the Big Ten.
Just a bit above Ohio State (486th place overall to 541st), and ahead of new-to-the-Big-Ten (and non-AAU) Nebraska (732nd).
Is that a Banner-Waver?

Not sure what your point is, but just a bit more context from the study, and the various parameters they measured.
I am not sure if you are contending that the data doesn't overwhelmingly "say what is says" (truly, I am not sure what the point was), but one would think that ship, the USS Denial, has sailed out of port a long time ago. The data, most definitely, says what it says - even if (especially if) no one wants to admit it, or address it:

The Data from the Report, for Penn State:

Net Price Paid (Tuition):
Rank in Big Ten: 14th

Amount of Student Debt:
Rank in Big Ten: Tied for 13th (last) with Michigan State

Graduation Rate (this has become a big deal, for obvious reasons - obvious for anyone who has been paying attention - and should surprise no one):
Rank in Big Ten: 12th

Repayment Rate on Student Loans (ie: not going into default):
Rank in Big Ten: 12th

Earnings relative to Price Paid (Tuition):
Rank in Big Ten: 14th

Earnings relative to Debt:
Rank in Big Ten 14th

% of Graduates earning more than High School Graduates:
Rank in Big Ten 12th


One of the things NOT incorporated into this data base is amount of Grants/Scholarships provided, and that, I think, is an important factor - but we know from the IPEDS data where PSU stands in that regard - which is not well, of course.
For what it is worth, the worst University, among all major conference schools, in the survey? That would be the one that Penn State just procured their next President from.

 

[Moogy]

FWIW: The 40 year Rate of Return has Penn State 12th out of 14 in the Big Ten.
Just a bit above Ohio State (486th place overall to 541st), and ahead of new-to-the-Big-Ten (and non-AAU) Nebraska (732nd).
Is that a Banner-Waver?

Not sure what your point is, but just a bit more context from the study, and the various parameters they measured.
I am not sure if you are contending that the data doesn't overwhelmingly "say what is says" (truly, I am not sure what the point was), but one would think that ship, the USS Denial, has sailed out of port a long time ago. The data, most definitely, says what it says - even if (especially if) no one wants to admit it, or address it:

The Data from the Report, for Penn State:

Net Price Paid (Tuition):
Rank in Big Ten: 14th

Amount of Student Debt:
Rank in Big Ten: Tied for 13th (last) with Michigan State

Graduation Rate (this has become a big deal, for obvious reasons - obvious for anyone who has been paying attention - and should surprise no one):
Rank in Big Ten: 12th

Repayment Rate on Student Loans (ie: not going into default):
Rank in Big Ten: 12th

Earnings relative to Price Paid (Tuition):
Rank in Big Ten: 14th

Earnings relative to Debt:
Rank in Big Ten 14th

% of Graduates earning more than High School Graduates:
Rank in Big Ten 12th


One of the things NOT incorporated into this data base is amount of Grants/Scholarships provided, and that, I think, is an important factor - but we know from the IPEDS data where PSU stands in that regard - which is not well, of course.
For what it is worth, the worst University, among all major conference schools, in the survey? That would be the one that Penn State just procured their next President from.

It's clear you're ignoring what I'm actually saying, just so you can rage-post more anti-PSU information. Unlike you, I don't have an agenda here. I just want facts and context. There are more schools in the nation than those in the Big Ten, so only focusing on the Big Ten seems silly. Generally speaking, those are all pretty good schools, so ranking at the lower end of those schools, while not exciting, isn't damning in and of itself.

And certain folks were talking about value decreasing. OK, this data doesn't indicate whether value is decreasing or increasing ... it's one point in time ... it's just saying what the value is now. So, what was the data from 5 years ago? 10 years ago? 15? Was PSU even worse? Or better? And by how much? Or roughly the same? Trends have informational value.