Without having mega-rich graduates, universities that have law schools, med schools, and engineering schools will have NIL advantages over others. You also want to recruit kids with rich parents to attend school. A wealthy Cajun buddy of mine, former big LSU fan and VP of a major, successful oil-field services company corporation, sent two kids to Ole Miss. He's now a big Ole Miss fan, bought a second home near Oxford, wears Ole Miss gear and guess where he donates now. I have an Ole Miss hat because a few years ago our Egg Bowl bet was the loser has to wear the winners hat in public for a week. My dumbass took that bet. Another rich friend now in Texas sent his kids to Ole Miss a long with some money.
NIL issues
- Thread starter M R DAWGS
- Start date
Bodies were there? We had almost no returning starters on either side of the ball.
Exactly. The "air raid" had nothing to do with defensive recruiting. Or lack, thereof. And besides, Leach is the ONLY coach that ran the true air raid. And he didn't share all of his secrets with his coaches. To be able to carry on the true "air raid". A lot of his success with it (and failures) was in the way he thought. And nobody else thought like him. So Goat needs to give up the ghost on the air raid. It's gone. And it will never be back. It died with Leach
I was never a huge Leach fan from the beginning. But he freaking won 7 and 9 games his last 2 years (he gets credit for the bowl win cause it was his team). I'd take that again in a minute.
The issue is a conglomerate of things.
- NIL Funds - Many run of the mill State fans have to make a choice. Do a give to NIL, where I get no ROI whatsoever, or do I give to the Bulldog Club, where I at least get a Tax Deduction and Season Tickets. Not many have the funds to do both.
- Location - I takes a special person to choose Starkville over other destinations in the P5. Look I love Starkville. Went to college here, played football here, retired back to Starkville, but when a 18-22 year old is looking around the P5 for a place to land, there are more appealing destinations
- Program History - Historically State is middle of the road when it comes to winning. If we are all honest with each other State is mediocre at best. Even in our best years, a New Year's Day bowl is extraordinary and not the norm.
- Recruiting Targets - You have to recruit guys that want to be here. I've seen plenty of recruits that would straight out tell me that "I have zero interest in State because its not "Big Time". I've always been of the mindset that if you don't want to be here, don't. That is where we have been successful in the past is with the development of 3 star guys that are "State" guys & the sprinkling in of 4 stars and the very occasional 5.
- Identity - I know some folks hate the "Blue Collar" MS State mantra, but that has been when State has been most successful. Slightly above average talent that is willing to work and play a physical brand of football.
Leach was not a problem in the short term, as he was a good coach and Moorhead left him some quality players to work with (and to be fair Leach did supplement a little with transfers like Polk, Charlton, Green, Matthews, etc). But Leach era recruiting was a disaster and it’s only now starting to really rear its head now that Moorhead era holdovers are gone. I mean heck what would we have been last year without two sixth year senior LB’s that committed to Dan Mullen.
1. There is no tax deduction for giving to the BC and getting tickets. But I also don’t think Selmon has taken full advantage of the new state law to allow more for fans. But the people making those decisions don’t drive the BI.
2. Good players have chosen Starkville forever. Most of these kids come from rural communities. It’s not for everyone but it’s not a huge deal. We went to 10
Straight bowls games.
But we are dead set on finding reasons we just can’t avoid to to justify our failings. Loser mentalities lose. Hire good coaches. Go to the games. That’s the most important thing BY FAR. OM didn’t build this team with NIL at the start.
We are now 2 portal classes removed from Leach and Arnett and this staff have had a lot of portal busts. leach brought in Randy Charlton, Jackie Matthews, Green, Banks, Polk, our current starting receiver from Northwestern. it’s getting ludicrous.
Theres a lot of narrative shaping going on. Easier to blame the dead guy than some people to take responsibility for what’s happened. if next year , year 3 since his passing you will still hear this spin, it just means we have no NIL and the coaching staff can’t identify talent.
Theres a lot of narrative shaping going on. Easier to blame the dead guy than some people to take responsibility for what’s happened. if next year , year 3 since his passing you will still hear this spin, it just means we have no NIL and the coaching staff can’t identify talent.
Yes, they were. And you're not always going to have a ton of returning starters, but you always need to have depth and upperclassmen ready to step in.
I am not going to research the roster at this moment but I highly suspect you're overexaggerating the returning starters. And you especially aren't counting ones that got in the portal due to the new coach.
I don't even know what you're arguing. Nobody is saying the Air Raid needs to come back.
These narratives have become cliches that they just throw out there without thinking “nobody runs his offense“. “Recruiting is all his fault” “”he didn’t embrace NIL”. These are all talking points.
No kidding. And for those saying Miss State people are too poor to give to NIL (just $10 a month) than why would someone want to get a degree from Miss. State?
Who runs his offense in the P4?
If he recruited so well why are we so devoid of talent in the front 7 and why did we have to build an entire OLine from the portal?
He definitely wanted no part of NIL. That’s not even debatable.
Blaming Leach for State not having any NIL in its
Coffers is ridiculous. That narrative has already been spun and failed.
Coffers is ridiculous. That narrative has already been spun and failed.
6 wins to get to a bowl. We until made to actually play someone, have always played 4 of the weakest OOC games you can possibly find.
The 10 straight bowl things isnt a feather to stick in your hat anymore.
I mean weve finished multiple seasons with losing records after going to bowls. One year we made it to a bowl for beating: alcorn, troy, bowling green, and beating arkansas and kentucky who both went 0-8 in the SEC that season.
The sec has gotten better. We've been made to play a real OOC opponent. Not sure weve ever gotten Good players, weve just played teams that didnt have players better than ours. Now its different. Other teams have put more into football and we havent.
Yes, that's not the case at all. Leach recruiting was terrible but that's got nothing to do with NIL right now. And NIL right now isn't bad anyway. It's not top shelf but it's solid.
The SEC currently has a losing record vs other P4 teams this season. The SEC isn't great outside the top 4 or 5 teams, same as any other conference. There's no Saban and Alabama dominating college football. Way more parity overall now.
Really? All you've talked about since his death is how our entire demise was caused by the leftover coaches not sticking to Leach's air raid. Ever thought of this? They may not have known how to run his air raid.
Here's your quote from further up this thread
"I don't disagree with this. However, ya'll really need to quit placing the blame on Leach. He got his share of talent. Damage was done last year by getting away from the Air Raid, then the total overhaul of the roster this year (blame Arnett, blame Lebby, whatever, it happened). All you have to do is look right here: https://247sports.com/college/missi...football/transferportal/?institutionkey=24104"
Meh. It ebbs and flows. TAMU, Auburn, Arkansas, Florida all have way more than us and not much to show for it. I’m not even sure LSU or Oklahoma are any good. Notre Dame sure has more than us and they lost to Marshall and NIU.
My point is we have been fine as long as we have a good coach. It’s the most important thing. TN and OM didn’t get good just bc of NIL. They hired good coaches. And that spurned on their NIL. This loser mentality of just looking at bank accounts or numbers and throwing in the towel is terrible. Tons of opportunity for us.
The TOP of the sec is better than any other conference by a long shot. Always has.
Georgia is dominating college football right now just like Saban and Alabama did.
The top of the conference. Georiga and Texas just ripped apart top teams in other conferences. Add Tennesee to that mix. Ole Miss and Alabama will be tough outs as well. The conference has a real chance to have 5 top 12 teams. No other conference can say that.
The bottom teams of the conference are the ones that have lost: Us, Auburn, Arkansas, Florida-- I dont view LSU or Texas AM as the powers most people do but those are the only programs even mentioned as true national players that have lost.
Tenn was always throwing money around. The coach plus the money made them what they are, but the money was always there.
No good coach is going to go to a spot without a solid NIL... unless he's got something to prove. Kiffin did, and has done well. Not a lot of coaches with Kiffins resume running around though, itching to prove something... Auburn and Florida seemed to both attempt to hire a Kiffin at their respective spots doesnt look to be working for them.
Yeah but all coaches can’t sit around and wait on the best NIL spots to open up. It’s a finite number. So there are going to be good coaches available. No one is turning down $4-5 mill a year in hopes that they get a better NIL gig in 2-3 years. I’m sure our NIL would be better if we didn’t have to portal so many people.
Damage was done LAST YEAR. I think we all agree on that by now. Arnett made a fatal decision to fire all Leach's offensive guys, as if it was suddenly 'his' program, and he wasn't hired out of urgent circumstances. And we had fans here saying we "have" to do that because he's the head coach. No - we don't. Every State fan or associate on earth knew this was an interim fix to get us through the next year, with an upperclass roster. After that, Arnett could have made whatever changes were necessary.
I don't care if Lebby runs the Air Raid. I just want our offense to be unique.
Nope, not exaggerating even a little. This is our two deep from the Egg Bowl. Our only two returning starters from that game are kickers. We have guys starting that were on the two deep last year or maybe got a spot start here and there, but literally no major contributors returned for us.
The portal is there to supplement your needs… but you gotta have some returning guys already established too. We had to bring in an absurd amount of transfers to put in our two deep because this staff had nothing to work with when they got here.
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We have 3 things hurting us more than NIL cash.
1) It's too hard to get to Starkville from the west. The only western direct flights come into Jackson or Meridian, and a 2 hour drive up 25 or 45 does not appeal to a lot of players.
2) Cohen being all in on baseball vs any other sport (I will always blame him for running off Vic)
3) Leach dying when he did really hurt. Lost on on recruiting, Then Arnett didn't want it / was not ready and killed recruiting more.
1) It's too hard to get to Starkville from the west. The only western direct flights come into Jackson or Meridian, and a 2 hour drive up 25 or 45 does not appeal to a lot of players.
2) Cohen being all in on baseball vs any other sport (I will always blame him for running off Vic)
3) Leach dying when he did really hurt. Lost on on recruiting, Then Arnett didn't want it / was not ready and killed recruiting more.
"Without having mega-rich graduates, universities that have law schools, med schools, and engineering schools will have NIL advantages over others."
LOL It may just be me but engineers seem to be a bit "tighter" with their money than doctors and lawyers.
Sure. I agree with this. But are you coming to the SEC, the toughest conference in football. To coach at a place thats at thats basically at the bottom of the conference in everything from salary, facilites, NIL-- knowing its unlikely you'll be able to springboard yourself outta here for a better spot... and could be the death knell... guys like Arnett and Moorhead will never get another shot somewhere else, and the coaching community knows this.
Its not an easy sell at all.
Correct, every advantage we've ever amassed for ourselves has evaporated.
1) We play 4 easy OOCs and an SEC sked.....well now the SEC sked is tougher, and may very well go to 9 games later, and we also now have to play a P4 OOC;
2) Bowl games are now de-emphasized due to the expanded playoff;
3) Players have always been paid, but it was tamped down under the old system, and we could compete with limited funds. Now the lid has been blown off by legalizing AND the portal. This allows for less finding of overlooked freshmen and JUCOs and developing, which is what we always had success doing.
Now...there are some good things:
1) We theoretically have a better shot to make the playoff now;
2) It's probably better to be out recruiting the portal than practicing for a bowl - that whole deal about getting extra practice went out the window with the Croom Error;
3) Does seem to be more parity out there.
If we'd pick a niche offense and commit to it over the course of a few years.....we could maybe grab an 'up' year every once in a while.
Lebby was a pretty hot name and we landed him so it’s not impossible. If Kiffin had left last year he would be their head coach bc they think he is really good.
dont need a niche offense. Need a QB or be able to develop them. Thats how UT and Ole Miss have made their moves. Both their coaches are excellent with QB's and developing them. Get a QB, then skill positions will come.
Supposedly Lebby can do the same. We'll see.
Whats that got to do with anything?.. Ole miss is in the same boat we are. Lebby wasnt considered for the Alabama job or Michigan job or even the dang Texas AM job.
Lebby fits the mold of what we can get.... a guy that has/had been passed over and is looking to prove himself. Just like Napier did for Florida and Freeze for Auburn. Got to find someone like that and hope its the right guy. Yet to be seen whether or not he's actually a good football coach or a good fit.
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I’m saying he is a guy with a bright future who wasn’t turned off by our program. We are definitely never gonna get an established name. NIL or Pre NIL.
Bright future is yet to be seen. We act like he was A+ hire and we poached him from away from someone else.
He's a guy that was passed over and is looking to prove himself. Which is what we can attract. We have to hope he's the right guy.
The way you describe Lebby is the same way someone would have described Moorhead before we landed him.
Some of the best fans in America. I've sat in that stadium through more losing seasons that I want to admit to others.
I keep hearing that. What's the result in NIL? My daughters are looking at LSU, Ole Miss, Arky and Texas A&M for med school. That's gonna matter especially if I'm the only State grad in the family.
since mullen and the NIL scene truly arriving. We've hired 4 football coaches. 3 of them have been coordinators with 0 head coaching experience... and a guy that honestly would be a fit in less than 10% of power 5 programs in the country.
We've also yet to have a coordinator or anyone else to my knowledge leave to a promotion at another schoool during those years....
hard to say we are attracting and able to land top tier or even on par quality coaching talent when thats the best we've done in 4 shots.
Again, the top 4 or 5 is it. And UGA lost last year.
The rest of the SEC doesn't scare the rest of the country. Imagine if the SEC hadn't totally 17'd us with the toughest schedule in the country for two years. We play the top 6 SEC teams this year and next minus AL. Texas, UGA, TN, MO, and throw in OM this year. That's a big reason fans better be patient. That schedule is a 17ing killer!
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