No doubt. Later in his career joe had his struggles but even late in his career he could still win a big game or two. Joe came back after the dark years to win two more BIG titles and I won't get into how great his prime was. The point is joe won big games. You can point to his failures and they're real and factual but james has an absolute embarrassing record against top 10. That's a fact too.
Not tough enough…
- Thread starter MacNit
- Start date
13-33 over 46 years against top 5 teams. 0-4 vs Bear Bryant. Losing records vs Tressel, Carr, and Ferentz. Joe won his fair share of big games but I’m tired of the misconception that he won all, or even most, of them. He didn’t. That’s BS and people remembering what they want to remember.
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Yeah, the later years hurt his record. He also had five undefeated seasons and played in four NC games including back to back. And the win over Miami is a lesson in winning with lesser talent. Big game James wouldn't win 13 games against top ten in 100 years.
And one more thing since you like to **** on Paterno - that stadium and fanbase are because of the 13-33 guy. During his prime he was considered the best coach in the country and in 86 Penn State was considered the best program in the country. Under Franklin we are considered the biggest fraud in the country.
Lane Kiffen is not coming north. I think he stays @ Ole Miss or he could end up @ Bama if things go bad there.
WHY? :
- Why does a first year QB starter for our opponent look more poised than PSU's 3rd year stater? QB Coaching and bad offensive scheme.
- Why did the PSU OC have such a terrible game plan which left PSU's defense on the field for too many minutes to be pounded by a huge Oregon OL?
- Why did the PSU OC select that last play (a pass) to the crowded short side of the field when they successfully ran the ball for the 1st OT TD?
- Why did PSU not go to max protect earlier in the game like they did with the long TD pass to Ross? Inattentive OC too tied to gimmicks.
- Why can a Freshman WR from Oregon be successful and the PSU receivers have trouble finding open space? Lousy PSU scheme.
- Why was Singleton in the game at key junctures when he can't break tackles?
Given the absolute 1st three quarters of offensive ineptitude, I'd say the defense held on as long as they physically could. They were exhausted.
Time for some paycuts for the offensive staff and some of the offensive players. They are being paid well and fans should demand ROI, especially if true that Allar's NIL deal is in the $2-3 million range.
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The defense was gassed because of offensive ineptitude for the majority of the game.
I'm not pinning this loss on the defense. The offense failed to effectively gameplan and lacks physical & mental toughness.
LOL. Georgia fans want to fire Kirby Smart today because he is 1-7 against Bama.
If I remember correctly, something like 8 of those 13 wins vs top 5 teams came in the 80’s. The 80’s were very, very good, but in the 60’s, 70’s, 90’s and 2000’s he was very underwhelming against top teams. It wasn’t just late in his career. I know that’s very hard for some to accept, but that’s reality. I’m not shitting on Paterno. I’m telling you the stats for his career. He was a great coach, but he didn’t walk on water like some like to remember him. If that pisses you off, that’s on you.
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This is no longer college football w/ student athletes- it is minor league football.
If I knew it included the complete package of winningest cosch of all time and best bowl game record of all time - yes indeed!
The list is too long. I am not a data entry specialist. Dozens of coaches could take PSU resources and produce the second worst big game coaching rectified in NCAA history.
Who’s saying that. But he does have one of the very best record in the biggest of games. Franklin has the 2nd worst EVER. And he has a punching chance to make the worst until Krafty stops the madness.
Juxtapose that against tne winningest coach of all time. I mean what is even tne argument?
I would take the Iowa St guy. But the only way Franklin is not at PSU next year is if he takes another gig
The misconception is yours, not ours.
Nobody is saying CJF needs to win all or even "most" of them. Can we start off with more than once a decade?
Sure. By “ours” you mean the contingent of Joe homers that think he won the biggest games routinely?
You sure do a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid the reality of the numbers in the past.
Penn State typically plays very tentatively in these games, we don’t play with confidence, especially on offense. It’s a long shot, but a coach who is aggressive and confident is what we need. Matt Campbell from Iowa State comes to mind. His teams beat more talented teams and play with confidence.
nope, all three were born on third base and think they hit a triple, though talented coaches for sure they were blessed with administrations and donors who value sports above all else.
Matt Campbell is an interesting thought. I like the guy and respect him and his accomplishments. Would he leave a place that he is very comfortable at? Would he be able to recruit at a level at PSU that would allow him to be competitive in the B1G? Would he be able to get the athletes to match Oregon, OSU, Michigan and coach them up? I liked Fran Brown at Syracuse and thought he was on the rise after last week’s win. Then they laid an egg vs Duke yesterday.
Syracuse lost their starting QB in the Clemson game after they had built a sizeable lead. Their backup played against Duke and it was disastrous.
No one is saying he walked on water but I did forget to mention his bowl record was a stellar 24-12 too. I just think it's low rent that when we are discussing Franklin some have to constantly bring up joe in a negative way. Joe's gone. We should focus on Franklin.
I’m not the one who brought up Joe. MacNit did. He does it nonstop. There was also a thread titled “What would Joe do”. So, if you don’t want to talk about Joe, tell the Joe homers to stop comparing Franklin to him constantly. Or at least, be able to accept Joe’s stats without being triggered.
You'll get laughed at, but I actually don't think its a crazy idea. Guy is steaming pissed at his alma matter and was mostly a really good coach until the end. Kind of like Beilema, won't be pretty always but the team will be disciplined and tough. Worry about recruiting with him for sure.
You seem to have a problem, or get triggered as you like to say, if folks mention joe. That's on you. We know the stats. I lived it. I loved those days. But Franklin is the coach now and we should all agree his record against any ranked opponents is abysmal. If that triggers Franklin homers that's on them.
Pure nonsense is NOT "reality".
You have no idea what you are talking (writing) about. Not even close.
PSU vs Top 10:
1970s: 5-8
1980s: 15-11
1990s: 9-12
Total: 29-31 Winning percentage 48%
2000s: 3-10 So total winning percentage 44% (32-41) if adding in 2000s
If looking at JVP's entire tenure - add in late 1966-69: 3-4, and 2010/2011: 0-3.... and you have 42% winning percentage for entire tenure.
Under HCJF: 4-21 Winning Percentage 16%
It is what it is. And it is a night-and-day difference.
1970 Penn State Nittany Lions Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
1970s
1972:
Tennessee - Loss
Oklahoma - Loss
1975:
OSU - Loss
WVU - Win
Alabama - Loss
1976:
OSU - Loss
Pitt - Loss
1977:
Houston - Win
Pitt - Win
1978:
OSU - Win
Maryland - Win
Alabama - Loss
1979:
Nebraska - Loss
1980s
1980:
Nebraska - Loss
Missouri - Win
Pitt - Loss
1981:
Alabama - Loss
Pitt - Win
USC - Win
1982:
Nebraska - Win
Alabama - Loss
Pitt - Win
Georgia - Win
1983:
Nebraska - Loss
Alabama - Win
West Virginia - Win
1984:
Iowa - Win
Texas - Loss
Boston College - Win
1985:
Marylnad - Win
Alabama - Win
Oklahoma - Loss
1986:
Alabama - Win
Miami - Win
1987:
Notre Dame - Win
1988:
West Virginia - Loss
Notre Dame - Loss
1989:
Alabama - Loss
Notre Dame - Loss
1990s
1990:
USC - Loss
Notre Dame - Win
Florida State - Loss
1991:
Georgia Tech - Win
Miami - Loss
Tennessee - Win
1992:
Miami - Loss
Notre Dame - Loss
1993:
Ohio State - Loss
Tennessee - Win
1994:
Michigan - Win
1995:
Ohio State - Loss
Northwestern - Loss
1996:
USC - Win
Ohio State -Loss
1997:
Ohio State - Win
Michigan - Loss
Florida - Loss
1998:
Ohio State - Loss
1999:
Arizona - Win
Miami - Win
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I don’t care about this comparison, as it’s focusing on the wrong things … but if you’re going to do it, it has to be v. FINAL Top 10 teams. For instance, in 1991, you show wins against “top 10” GT and Tennessee. We played then #8 GT in the season opener and won. They ended up 8-5 and unranked. Tennessee ended up 14th.
Tennessee ended up 14 because we beat them in the bowl game. If we lose, they stay top 10. So Joe beat a top 10 Tennessee. The problem right now is Franklin loses to teams like Tennessee so teams like Tennessee stay top 10, and it’s a top 10 loss. Your way of counting significantly devalues some wins.
Sorry. I misspoke. You are right. My mistake. It was against top 5 teams.
Penn State Football: a look back at the Nittany Lions’ struggles against top 5 opponents over the years
After the loss at Michigan, we took a look back at Penn State Football's (mostly) unsuccessful history against top five competition.
victorybellrings.com
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“Devalues” = properly values. Of course they fell out of the top 10 when we beat them, since they were #10 when we faced them. And? You guys want to participate in this stupid comparative … so at least do it correctly. And that is “correctly.”
“We don’t like the outcome when we think rationally, so let’s act irrationally” isn’t a valid reason for refusing to think and behave properly.
