Older alums and fans expect more of PSU
- Thread starter Nits1989
- Start date
We are who we've always been as a program except in 1 way. Historically we're a Top 10 program that would occasionally rise to a championship level. Right now we're a Top 10 program overall that doesn't have the OL to rise to a championship level.
Can't say it any clearer. A big, strong OL makes everyone better. Until we recruit a bigger, stronger OL, we will continue to be a 10-2, NY6 program.
6' 5" 280-290 should be the minimum. Gone are the days of recruiting the 6' 3" 260 kid and expecting him to add 40 lbs and develop over 3-5 years.
Can't say it any clearer. A big, strong OL makes everyone better. Until we recruit a bigger, stronger OL, we will continue to be a 10-2, NY6 program.
6' 5" 280-290 should be the minimum. Gone are the days of recruiting the 6' 3" 260 kid and expecting him to add 40 lbs and develop over 3-5 years.
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Poster gave a rundown above of record against a few teams. I went looking for the streak against Michigan and found this.
For an entire decade, 1997-2007 (the Loyd Carr era), Michigan did not lose to Penn State once. Even in 2005 — a season that Penn State went 11-1 and won the Big Ten — a seemingly lesser Michigan squad upset Joe Paterno’s Lions in Ann Arbor.
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For an entire decade, 1997-2007 (the Loyd Carr era), Michigan did not lose to Penn State once. Even in 2005 — a season that Penn State went 11-1 and won the Big Ten — a seemingly lesser Michigan squad upset Joe Paterno’s Lions in Ann Arbor.
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Plenty here seem to be hung up on a Penn State program that hasn't existed in 25+ years.
Penn State has beaten OSU and UM in the same season twice and never beaten OSU in consecutive seasons since joining the conference
They've beaten multiple top 25 opponents in consecutive seasons 5 times, and only once in the last quarter century. 93/94, 94/95, 95/96, 96/97 and 2016/2017 since joining.
Penn State has beaten OSU and UM in the same season twice and never beaten OSU in consecutive seasons since joining the conference
They've beaten multiple top 25 opponents in consecutive seasons 5 times, and only once in the last quarter century. 93/94, 94/95, 95/96, 96/97 and 2016/2017 since joining.
The last decade shouldn’t be classified as “excellence” to be fair.
But Joe was elite in the three decades before sure.
Paterno had 12 seasons of at least 10 wins. He had 5 undefeated seasons and 7 undefeated regular seasons. He had nine 9 win seasons, five 8 win seasons.
I may not be liked after this….
As great as Joe Paterno was, the game of college football and all that surrounds it today, IMO is something he would not thrive or maybe even survive.
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As great as Joe Paterno was, the game of college football and all that surrounds it today, IMO is something he would not thrive or maybe even survive.
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So much has changed since i became aware of Penn State 55 years ago....and not just football and athletics. The scandal ruptured many parts of the school....none worse than the Administration With the fallout was lost quality leadership and the academic standing has declined. As with all of society change and technology has created a new world....and while most change is devised to simplify and increase quality of life, often unforeseen ramifications have complicated issues. CFB is challenged by the advent of the Portal and NIL..these two functions were intended to increase player conditions...but have led to other areas of concern. Yes i have lived a grand life with PSU athletics....and have also endured departures from what had been customary results to present day uncharted events.
class of 1972 here, so I remember quite a bit of our history and I know that we were never what Alabama is- we've had some very, very good runs, but we have never been in the very top tier
some of that was Joe's unwillingness to compromise much on academics- and that's something to be damn proud of in my book
maybe you have a different book
some of that was Joe's unwillingness to compromise much on academics- and that's something to be damn proud of in my book
maybe you have a different book
I'm not so sure he'd even want toI may not be liked after this….
As great as Joe Paterno was, the game of college football and all that surrounds it today, IMO is something he would not thrive or maybe even survive.
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Doesn't matter. The present day incarnation of PSU football isn't competing against Joe Paterno.I may not be liked after this….
As great as Joe Paterno was, the game of college football and all that surrounds it today, IMO is something he would not thrive or maybe even survive.
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Because Joe stayed too long. PSU should have moved on just like Cooper to Tressel. By the time Urban got there we were way behind. Look at the numbers. I really don't care about the 70-90's.
Got it, no problem. You make some good points, but I think why some (certainly not all) were more accepting of the mediocrity was due more to Joe's track record in the past decades, as well as his near celebrity status. I admit to being thrilled with the Franklin hire at the time, but like many I've lost confidence. What exacerbates the vitriol is that James doesn't have that sort of track record to appease much of the fanbase, particularly many of the older segment who fondly remember those "glory days". Saying all that, I do hope to be proven wrong over the next couple of years.
No, you might be correct. My guess is that he may not even have liked what we're seeing today, and may have left the game. Not so sure I would have blamed him.I may not be liked after this….
As great as Joe Paterno was, the game of college football and all that surrounds it today, IMO is something he would not thrive or maybe even survive.
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You are applying a situation from the 1970s to modern college football. This is a completely different era. Today it's dominated by programs that are making massive investments to ensure they remain at the top of the heap. There are 3-4 programs that dominate, everyone else is looking up at them. Historically PSU has never done what these programs are doing. Franklin wants us to get there, and pushes the administration hard to make it happen, but our fans chastise him when what he's trying to do will help the program in the long run no matter who is coaching.
Penn State is now Notre Dame -- pummeling the cupcake schools, getting pounded by the stronger teams, and with a fan base that remembers the glory days of the 1970s and 1980s.
You and I are are probably more in agreement than our conversation would lead us to believe. I was a big fan of Joe. I don’t throw out the stats to draw a line in the sand. It’s more to be the devil’s advocate and try to get people to be more realistic with their frustration. Trust me, I’ve had my Franklin frustration as well. I would have let him go after the Illinois game last year. I got up and walked away and told my family that was 4 wasted hours of my life that I will never get back. That was my breaking point. However, he got a new contract and it appears that he is here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future, so I think we need to stay positive and hope for the best. I also have my doubts about the ceiling of the program under his direction. Like you, I also hope I am wrong.
Most schools would kill to pummel cupcake schools and get pounded by stronger teams.
I wouldn’t go that far. We shouldn’t compare ourselves to those pretenders. Also, generally we win bowl games. Notre Dame - not so much.
It's really more about the last 30 years and the trends overall. But I agree that CJF has a lot to do yet
Class of ‘70, and though I recall lots of wins, I think much success was the result of an Eastern football schedule. I never recall that we appeared elite vs Alabama, Oklahoma, Nebraska back in Paterno’s earlier days.
BUT it seems the difference was that we did win a big game now and then, unlike now.
I must admit that although I like the games and obviously would rather win than lose, I never have lost any sleep over a win or loss. Just money.
BUT it seems the difference was that we did win a big game now and then, unlike now.
I must admit that although I like the games and obviously would rather win than lose, I never have lost any sleep over a win or loss. Just money.
Yep. We are all creatures of the time we are in. There is no way to translate the time and place that Joe operated in to today.I may not be liked after this….
As great as Joe Paterno was, the game of college football and all that surrounds it today, IMO is something he would not thrive or maybe even survive.
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I'll add to your post @Nits74...."Half Time Adjustments". What the team needed to correct was addressed and resolved come the 2nd half.
Yes. Plus heel toe and 2 second games.
did you notice the heel toe call on Saturday? There was one and it was called out of bounds. Only Michigan gets that call
If those teams had all that awesomeness ... why weren't they awesome?
JoePa coached for 19 years in the Big Ten ... exactly 3 of those teams ended the year with less than 2 losses (playing fewer games).
So if those teams had superior line play, and if they improved as the season progressed, and if they didn't collapse in the 4th quarter .... how DID they lose? Must have been a whole poopload of problems if they avoided all that bad stuff the current teams apparently suffer from ... and they still got beaten, right?
B4 Big10, Penn State’s schedule was tougher. And Joe’s record was second to none. So much better than Franklin’s, he could not even see it.
The 7 million dollar man is 3-5 vs Michigan State, that should tell you all you need to know. He's a flim flam man.
The problem is that our 8/9/10 wins always come against soft opponents that we’re supposed to beat. We never win games against good opponents. It’s mind-boggling that people don’t see that as a problem.
Penn State has a ton of prestige just from its name. Anyone could coach them to 8/9-win season, and for a lot less money! For $7.5 million/year, I expect to be competitive with Ohio State and Michigan. I expect the team to be coached in a way where I’m not constantly going, “Why is every hand-off up the middle, and every pass to the sideline?! Why are we consistently throwing the ball for 2-yards on 3rd-and-long situations? Why are all of our pass plays either for 2 yards or 40 yards??? Why are we playing a 6th year QB with a low talent-ceiling, no future, and poor throwing mechanics?!”
Believe I mentioned that in the quote, not winning our share of big game matchups that includes UM, OSU etc.., there's only one Alabama and Uncle Nick and until he retires the landscape probably isn't changing. So yes, 10-2 with our share of wins over those two I'll take all day long.
That is an assumption like saying the 1968 undefeated team couldn't be competitive with the 1994 team.....Joe mastered football because of his values, love of the game, teaching/development of players, and commitment to excellence....all those traits transcend time. He would have been just as successful....his enjoyment and approval of where the game has evolved is another issue.I may not be liked after this….
As great as Joe Paterno was, the game of college football and all that surrounds it today, IMO is something he would not thrive or maybe even survive.
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I agree with your post.....while i may not be able to win 8/9/10 games as PSU HC....i would be willing to place a fairly large sum there ARE members with coaching experience in the Den who could accomplish that level of success....HOWEVER....would said member be willing to put up with the amount of scrutiny from the rest of our members?!?!
PS: I'd be willing to try for 25% of CJF's salary!
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Not sure i would characterize CJF as flim/flam....i do believe HIS beliefs and values of the best schemes and plays aren't as successful as he believes. Two examples of this would be Don Coryell....great coach but never won a superbowl....Andy Reid....another great coach but didn't win till he got his QB...Patrick Mahomes. AS often as i have heard CJF state he wants to be the first black HC to win MNC....i am surprised he doesn't look to history of other coaches needing to get the franchise QB to accomplish it. Football is a copy cat sport....a successful team will have others copying their system in an effort to achieve the elusive success. While Urban Meyer was HC at Bowling Green he wrote to Lou Holtz to ask for a script/plan to build a successful team/program...the reply from Lou is legendary and worth reading...and Lou and Urban began to talk regularly. Last example...Dabo took over Clemson midway thru the 2008 season when Tommy Bowden resigned..(locals were not thrilled with this wanted a big name coach). At that time Clemson wasn't terrible....but had a reputation of losing games they were winning.....thus the term "Clemsoning" was coined. Finally he got a big time QB recruit...Deshaun Watson followed by Trevor Lawrence and Clemson became a power. Soooo.....again i wonder why CJF doesn't emulate proven history.
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