Ole Miss football palyer sues school / Kiffen.

[She Mate Me]

Controlling the rights? Who said anything about controlling the rights? No one forces anyone to have colonoscopies or mammograms. All I said is if someone asks for mental health help maybe don’t flip them off and tell them to stop being a P word.

Honestly, what you said sounds more like infringing on rights. We should be trying to get these people help before their mental disease progresses to the point that we need to separate them from the public

You didn't bring up controlling rights, but we both know that after nearly every mass shooting, gun control is an immediate cry from a segment of the population.

What also often comes out is that the shooter had obvious mental issues and had made threats previously.

I am more concerned about the fact we have a system that can identify the problem, but in a few very sad and public instances, can't deal with it before it ends tragically.

I know the issue is fraught with individual rights questions, but if we often identify problem people and don't protect the public from them adequately, that's were we should look for a solution.

 

[mstateglfr]

Here are some questions that must be considered... what is the responsibility of the university when they have students that are dealing with mental illness? Does the athletics dept (admin, coaches, etc) have a higher level of responsibility when an athlete has a mental illness?

Personally, I'm not sure that it is a very good idea for a person dealing with a mental disease to be playing a game that could add a lot of stress and anxiety to an already difficult situation.

Very fair questions.

On the athletics issue- I think an athletic department should treat mental issues equal to physical issues. If they are going to accept a player who tore their ACL in HS, they should accept a player who had depression in HS. Both are fixable. Or if they recruit and accept a player that they find out has cancer thru a standard intake physical(this has happened), then they should accept a player that they find out has ADHD, anxiety, or depression thru a standard intake physical.

 

[turkish]

Negative, negative, negative, negative & negative.

you want to play the kumbaya ******** game, Pat little Johnny on the hand and give him a hug while telling him it’s going to be ok. That ain’t how reality works sparky.

I’m close with a person that could’ve posted these exact words. This individual also suffers from depression to a degree that is a real strain on their family.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

- The term 'mental health' has expanded to include such a wide range of issues that it has lost some meaning/impact. I do wish the term wasnt so watered down, because it seems like some people are reactionary and are dismissive of more than they should be when it comes to mental health claims.

- Just because people were treated like crap for mental health issues in past decades doesnt mean people are weaker now for speaking up and prioritizing their mental health.

- If someone is going thru some genuine rough mental issues- depression, overwhelming anxiety, etc- then if they hole up and ignore people around them, that can very easily be evidence of their mental state vs them being some dick who is pouting.

- I love that the stigma of mental health being a weakness is no longer as prevalent as it was 25 years ago. We used to be absolute dicks to people with known mental disorders and issues when growing up, and that is truly 17ed up in retrospect. Teens now are, in general, more accepting of and patient with neurodivergent peers.

- Mental health should be respected equally with physical health. If a player has Mono, a torn ACL, or a broken arm- there is no difference in the level of respect that should be given compared to a player with a concussion, recently developed anxiety, or depression.

This. 100 times this. I had severe OCD as a teen. It made me almost nonfunctional. Life was hell. I had no one to talk to. I went to some very dark places and am stunned I came out okay on the other side. It was hell and I needed help. But back then you didn’t complain and even if you had you just would have become an outcast and not gotten any help anyways

interesting story, I figured out what I had when ESPN ran a story about an NHL player who had severe OCD. I was like “holy hell, that’s me!!!”. It was like a weight was lifted. I realized I wasn’t alone. It was at that point that I started figuring out how to get through it. If there had been someone to talk to and if I wasn’t so ashamed, my teenage years wouldn’t be the shitshow they were

Exactly.

What a lot of folks here on this board do not want to admit/realize is that people are individuals and are often wired differently.

And folks want those different folks to be like themselves— and here’s the thing: THEY CAN’T BE.

The fricking ignoran-tassed-sumsb-itches in Mississippi who want everyone to be the same are the Number 1 reason why this state is on the decline.

 

[Dawgg]

Bottom line since Kiffen seemed to treat this as a boss-employee thing: in this day and age as a boss you are asking for trouble if you talk to an employee like that. Im not saying it's right or wrong, just stating what ought to be obvious to all these days.

That’s correct. Unless you’re maybe in the military, there’s not a man on this board that would let his boss call him a рussy without there being some sort of consequences and repercussions.

 

[Dawgg]

Well, the mental health issues of eventual mass shooters need to be properly assessed, if possible, as a threat to the public and dealt with accordingly. When they're not, we see what can happen.

A kid who is likely upset over his hard azz coaches and the end of his football life most likely doesn't rise to the level of a threat to society.

One is a big problem for society, the other is likely mainly a problem only for the individual and loved ones (and the occasional foul mouthed football coaches)

Sooooo… do we setup an online application for people to self-identify as an eventual mass shooter? No, of course not.

We actually never know what’s going to contribute to a person’s decision to commit violence on another person. We don’t know what else is going on in this player’s life, but we know he’s telling people he has mental health struggles. Getting kicked off the team might be the final straw for him.

 

[She Mate Me]

Sooooo… do we setup an online application for people to self-identify as an eventual mass shooter? No, of course not.

We actually never know what’s going to contribute to a person’s decision to commit violence on another person.

Well, if a person has made repeated threats to commit violence on another person or random persons, then we definitely know they've thought about it at least a little. So we do get some warning in a lot of cases, as we've seen in the follow up to a number of mass shootings.

It's just a matter of whether the system has the will and ability to get the most obvious threats out of public circulation.

 

[Seinfeld]

While you may be right, if he was legitimately having mental health issues, his going into a shell and being afraid to talk to anybody could have been the reaction that he would have. Especially seeing how kiffin treated him when he finally did come to him about it.

That's fair, and let me just say that I don't think Kiffin came anywhere close to handling things in an appropriate way. Not for a head football coach or simply from the standpoint of being a decent human being.

That said, here are the facts that I know about this so far...

11/28/22 - Rollins met with his DL coach where he was persuaded to enter the transfer portal. Rollins declined
2/27/23 - Rollins met with Kiffin where he was told that he'd be moving to OL. Rollins doesn't agree with the change
2/27/23 - Rollins calls S&C coach and tells him he needs a mental break
Around this same time - Rollins's mom calls athletic trainer and asks him to set up counseling/monitoring for Rollins, counseling is provided, and Rollins is guided to take a step back from football
3/7/23 - Counselor tells Rollins that Kiffin wants to meet with him. Rollins declines
3/21/23 - Rollins finally agrees to meet with Kiffin, brings a secret tape recorder, and records entire conversation

When you've got a scholarship player that's been on the team for 3 years, but refused to transfer, refused to change positions, and then refused multiple requests to even talk to Kiffin, I don't know... I guess I'm just wondering what else KIffin was supposed to do here. Not calling him a p**** would've been a great start, but this sudden mental health claim after 3 years of being on the team along with the hidden recording of his meeting with Kiffin sure comes across as a matter of convenience under the known circumstances. I'll also say that I'd be leaning much more in Rollins's favor if his family had actually made some sort of effort to help this kid rather than passing the buck to the university. That again sure makes it seemed like they were concerned, but not THAT concerned

 

[mstateglfr]

Well, if a person has made repeated threats to commit violence on another person or random persons, then we definitely know they've thought about it at least a little. So we do get some warning in a lot of cases, as we've seen in the follow up to a number of mass shootings.

It's just a matter of whether the system has the will and ability to get the most obvious threats out of public circulation.

Ok Tom Cruise, good luck on getting your Pre-Cog program up and running.
I joke...kinda. Acting on talk without action is both understandable and clearly scary as 17 and concerning for good reason.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I'll also say that I'd be leaning much more in Rollins's favor if his family had actually made some sort of effort to help this kid rather than passing the buck to the university. That again sure makes it seemed like they were concerned, but not THAT concerned

I don’t know….

It appears to me that you’re advocating helicopter parenting which is often seen as a wrong approach.

 

[pseudonym]

I'd be hard pressed, as a coach, not to put cell phone lockers in place and not allow them in certain places/meetings.

Kiffin before player meetings moving forward:

 

[Dawgs_4_life]

This will be a headache for Lane. Can Lane handle the media asking questions about this constantly? Could this hurt the locker room? I do not think this will just go away.

 

[She Mate Me]

Ok Tom Cruise, good luck on getting your Pre-Cog program up and running.
I joke...kinda. Acting on talk without action is both understandable and clearly scary as 17 and concerning for good reason.

Don't really need a pre-cog program when someone tells you what they're gonna do. It's just a matter of whether the officials in charge of handling such things handle it well.

 

[ChinaDogSunflower]

What are they doing to those young men over in Oxford????

The Nkemdiche brothers, Corral, and now this?

 

[Drebin]

Exactly.

What a lot of folks here on this board do not want to admit/realize is that people are individuals and are often wired differently.

And folks want those different folks to be like themselves— and here’s the thing: THEY CAN’T BE.

The fricking ignoran-tassed-sumsb-itches in Mississippi who want everyone to be the same are the Number 1 reason why this state is on the decline.

All of this is fine and well. But this is why I say we need more info on this issue. Was the kid diagnosed as having mental issues? Was he being treated? Had he been previously evaluated at all? Or is the kid just claiming this as a crutch or as a cover to do what he wants?

On one hand you have the "believe all people going through mental illness" crowd and on the other hand you've got the "we didn't have stuff like this in our generation because we were tough" crowd. The truth is somewhere in the middle. We should address mental illness better because we know a lot more about than we used to, but we should also recognize that it's used to excuse behavior or as a crutch way too often.

I'll give you a real world example. My mother suffers from severe depression and is bipolar. She has dealt with it for years and takes medication for it. From time to time, she'll use it as an excuse to lash out or be short tempered, or as an excuse to skip an event she needs to go to. It's just become convenient sometimes. So it's really difficult to pin down, and it's not as simple as being in one camp or the other.

 

[She Mate Me]

All of this is fine and well. But this is why I say we need more info on this issue. Was the kid diagnosed as having mental issues? Was he being treated? Had he been previously evaluated at all? Or is the kid just claiming this as a crutch or as a cover to do what he wants?

On one hand you have the "believe all people going through mental illness" crowd and on the other hand you've got the "we didn't have stuff like this in our generation because we were tough" crowd. The truth is somewhere in the middle. We should address mental illness better because we know a lot more about than we used to, but we should also recognize that it's used to excuse behavior or as a crutch way too often.

I'll give you a real world example. My mother suffers from severe depression and is bipolar. She has dealt with it for years and takes medication for it. From time to time, she'll use it as an excuse to lash out or be short tempered, or as an excuse to skip an event she needs to go to. It's just become convenient sometimes. So it's really difficult to pin down, and it's not as simple as being in one camp or the other.

Well said.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

All of this is fine and well. But this is why I say we need more info on this issue. Was the kid diagnosed as having mental issues? Was he being treated? Had he been previously evaluated at all? Or is the kid just claiming this as a crutch or as a cover to do what he wants?

On one hand you have the "believe all people going through mental illness" crowd and on the other hand you've got the "we didn't have stuff like this in our generation because we were tough" crowd. The truth is somewhere in the middle. We should address mental illness better because we know a lot more about than we used to, but we should also recognize that it's used to excuse behavior or as a crutch way too often.

I'll give you a real world example. My mother suffers from severe depression and is bipolar. She has dealt with it for years and takes medication for it. From time to time, she'll use it as an excuse to lash out or be short tempered, or as an excuse to skip an event she needs to go to. It's just become convenient sometimes. So it's really difficult to pin down, and it's not as simple as being in one camp or the other.

Sorry to hear about your mother. Dealing with mental health issues of your own, or friends and family members, is tough. I've seen too many times that someone gets themselves out of treatment, then the ensuing mental issues that result from lack of treatment cause them to be belligerent about taking meds until something really "big" happens that kind of shakes them into being reasonable enough to listen to someone else and start back doing what they should do.

Personal family experiences like you describe put me on the benefit of the doubt wagon simply because not being so puts me in a position to potentially do a lot of harm to someone. I'd rather someone "get one over" on me than me contribute to someone's demise in any way.

What I'd really like to do is just shake them by the collar and tell them to stop being...whatever they are being at the moment, but that is not a winning recipe either.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Ole Miss football player files federal lawsuit against university, coach Lane Kiffin

An Ole Miss football player filed a federal lawsuit against the University of Mississippi and head coach Lane Kiffin.

www.wcbi.com

I feel compelled to point out that this isn't a real SPS thread without someone calling out the mistyping of "player" in the OP's title. We are getting soft on ACT English scores around here and I blame millennials.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

The mental issues could very well be as simple as that the guy is in a position where he’s getting a great education (supposed to graduate in December).

The coaches want him to leave and he doesn’t want to leave.

The coaches are upset because they can’t force him to leave.

A couple factors that can affect mental health are Physical Factors (work conditions) and Social Factors (abuse and toxic relationships) and he’s called them in on it with the recording.

People talk about processing players.

Sometimes though, they don’t want to be processed.

 

[Drebin]

Sorry to hear about your mother. Dealing with mental health issues of your own, or friends and family members, is tough. I've seen too many times that someone gets themselves out of treatment, then the ensuing mental issues that result from lack of treatment cause them to be belligerent about taking meds until something really "big" happens that kind of shakes them into being reasonable enough to listen to someone else and start back doing what they should do.

Personal family experiences like you describe put me on the benefit of the doubt wagon simply because not being so puts me in a position to potentially do a lot of harm to someone. I'd rather someone "get one over" on me than me contribute to someone's demise in any way.

What I'd really like to do is just shake them by the collar and tell them to stop being...whatever they are being at the moment, but that is not a winning recipe either.

Your last sentence is definitely where you can find yourself. And believe me - it's a justified reaction at times. Typically folks like that also have some form of narcissism where they feel like their feelings should be the concern of everyone around them and can be really selfish with that and even use it as a weapon. To some degree, it's illness. And to a certain point, it's also selfish assholeness, and it's really convenient to use the former as an excuse for the latter. So that's why I'm pretty passionate about this subject. Mental illness is real, but it's not a matter of "you have it or you don't." There are levels, flavors, impacts, levels of treatment and care, outcomes, how it all manifests, etc. And even for those who are mentally ill, more often than not, certain behaviors are still THEIR CHOICE. Sometimes they still have to be held accountable.

It can be a very sticky and very frustrating thing to deal with.

 

[She Mate Me]

I feel compelled to point out that this isn't a real SPS thread without someone calling out the mistyping of "player" in the OP's title. We are getting soft on ACT English scores around here and I blame millennials.

I think the OP has a mental health issue based on not using the EDIT function to correct that incredibly annoying spelling error in the title.

Well, one of us does, that's for sure

 

[Dawgg]

Well, if a person has made repeated threats to commit violence on another person or random persons, then we definitely know they've thought about it at least a little. So we do get some warning in a lot of cases, as we've seen in the follow up to a number of mass shootings.

It's just a matter of whether the system has the will and ability to get the most obvious threats out of public circulation.

Yeah, but is that really the line? Here we have a guy saying "I need mental help" and I feel like your answer is "well, you haven't really indicated that you're violent, so it's not that big of a deal". I don't want to speak for HailStout, but I believe his point is that it's all mental health and should be taken seriously when a person indicates they need that help.

It's like an exposed thread, right? Why wait until it's pulled enough that an entire sleeve falls off before you decide to repair it? I feel like this is the same thing. I don't think the mental health issues of most mass shooters suddenly arose the day they started making social media posts about killing. They had problems well before that.

 

[Dawgbite]

This board's collective love for crapping on 'the younger and weaker generation' is just wild to see. Its so absurd, its like a parody of a trope. The average posting age pushed past 40 and suddenly there are an overwhelming number of people who no longer ironically yell 'get off my lawn'. Now, they honestly want to make their lawn the nicest on the block, and Lord save the coddled pussified youths that happen to walk on it.

Is there some mass mental block that happens to many on here after they crest 40, and they can no longer remember how much society made fun of late year GenX and Millennials?
Just 10 years ago, Millennials(anyone thats about 28-42 right now) were blamed for ruining everything. It was an odd societal phenomenon- Millennials were blamed for seemingly anything that wasnt good anymore, and it got so out of hand that it became a joke to blame Millennials for 'ruining' things they had nothing to do with.

Apply that here- just a new younger generation being ripped on with a lazy broad brush.

My opinion is based on 35 years of hiring , working, and firing 18-25 year olds. I spent 35 years in the furniture manufacturing industry. It’s not rocket science and we were not hiring rocket scientist but the employee pool has dwindled to the point of being laughable. Our education system is graduating kids who have zero life skills. They have no idea what work is. They have zero employability yet they have a high school diploma. Their parents and the education system is failing them because they are not prepared for the reality of adulthood. A few years ago I was in a conversation with a plant manager at a customer and he summed it up perfectly, he said that he wished he had back everyone he fired in the 1990’s because they were better employees than what was walking through the door currently.

 

[BingleCocktail]

17 0LD P1$$

 

[Big Sheep81]

Somebody needs to cowboy-up............

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

Been inside one too many tornadoes.

 

[mstateglfr]

My opinion is based on 35 years of hiring , working, and firing 18-25 year olds. I spent 35 years in the furniture manufacturing industry. It’s not rocket science and we were not hiring rocket scientist but the employee pool has dwindled to the point of being laughable. Our education system is graduating kids who have zero life skills. They have no idea what work is. They have zero employability yet they have a high school diploma. Their parents and the education system is failing them because they are not prepared for the reality of adulthood. A few years ago I was in a conversation with a plant manager at a customer and he summed it up perfectly, he said that he wished he had back everyone he fired in the 1990’s because they were better employees than what was walking through the door currently.

Genuinely, that sounds frustrating.
Where are you located? Perhaps lack of readiness in the local market is the issue, versus an entire generation being the issue.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

My opinion is based on 35 years of hiring , working, and firing 18-25 year olds. I spent 35 years in the furniture manufacturing industry. It’s not rocket science and we were not hiring rocket scientist but the employee pool has dwindled to the point of being laughable. Our education system is graduating kids who have zero life skills. They have no idea what work is. They have zero employability yet they have a high school diploma. Their parents and the education system is failing them because they are not prepared for the reality of adulthood. A few years ago I was in a conversation with a plant manager at a customer and he summed it up perfectly, he said that he wished he had back everyone he fired in the 1990’s because they were better employees than what was walking through the door currently.

Has to be a combination of lagging hourly wages combined with far too few workers (and maybe a lot of other variables that I'm overlooking due to ignorance, stupidity, or just not caring enough to dive deeper). I still contend that Boomer retirement is yet to be fully reckoned with and our Congress' inability to pass any sensible immigration legislation is not helping matters.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Genuinely, that sounds frustrating.
Where are you located? Perhaps lack of readiness in the local market is the issue, versus an entire generation being the issue.

I see labor shortage leading to jobs that pay decent, which formerly may have required a skilled trade to even interview, willing to train people to do it. The company will suffer some overhead and lack of productivity while training, but they have little recourse. This means that the basic hourly worker pool is reduced to just those who aren't easy to train for skilled labor. Skilled employers suffer. Semi-skilled employers suffer. Minimum wage employers suffer. Labor is tough right now.

 

[MagnoliaHunter]

That's fair, and let me just say that I don't think Kiffin came anywhere close to handling things in an appropriate way. Not for a head football coach or simply from the standpoint of being a decent human being.

That said, here are the facts that I know about this so far...

11/28/22 - Rollins met with his DL coach where he was persuaded to enter the transfer portal. Rollins declined
2/27/23 - Rollins met with Kiffin where he was told that he'd be moving to OL. Rollins doesn't agree with the change
2/27/23 - Rollins calls S&C coach and tells him he needs a mental break
Around this same time - Rollins's mom calls athletic trainer and asks him to set up counseling/monitoring for Rollins, counseling is provided, and Rollins is guided to take a step back from football
3/7/23 - Counselor tells Rollins that Kiffin wants to meet with him. Rollins declines
3/21/23 - Rollins finally agrees to meet with Kiffin, brings a secret tape recorder, and records entire conversation

When you've got a scholarship player that's been on the team for 3 years, but refused to transfer, refused to change positions, and then refused multiple requests to even talk to Kiffin, I don't know... I guess I'm just wondering what else KIffin was supposed to do here. Not calling him a p**** would've been a great start, but this sudden mental health claim after 3 years of being on the team along with the hidden recording of his meeting with Kiffin sure comes across as a matter of convenience under the known circumstances. I'll also say that I'd be leaning much more in Rollins's favor if his family had actually made some sort of effort to help this kid rather than passing the buck to the university. That again sure makes it seemed like they were concerned, but not THAT concerned

No doubt that you are probably right about both the player and kiffin's handling in the meeting.

 

[She Mate Me]

Yeah, but is that really the line? Here we have a guy saying "I need mental help" and I feel like your answer is "well, you haven't really indicated that you're violent, so it's not that big of a deal". I don't want to speak for HailStout, but I believe his point is that it's all mental health and should be taken seriously when a person indicates they need that help.

I'll just say that what you feel like my answer is, is not my answer and I don't think I've typed anything like that. We're probably kinda talking past each other. Let's not subject the board to anymore of it for now

 

[turkish]

Genuinely, that sounds frustrating.
Where are you located? Perhaps lack of readiness in the local market is the issue, versus an entire generation being the issue.

Glfr, are you feeling OK?

 

[Dawgbite]

Genuinely, that sounds frustrating.
Where are you located? Perhaps lack of readiness in the local market is the issue, versus an entire generation being the issue.

Located in North Mississippi. I’ll give you the flip side. I’ve hired engineers, recent graduates, from good ole Mississippi State who show up the first day in starched khakis and a long sleeve white shirt to a manufacturing environment in a non air conditioned environment in Ms in the summer. Did you not get a clue when I interviewed you wearing shorts and wiping sweat off my forehead during the interview That this wasn’t that kind of job? Just because you have a degree doesn’t mean you’re destined for a life of leisure. Growing up I hated my father because he found work for me to do and growing up on a farm there was no shortage of jobs to do. When I was 15 and through out high school I always found an after school or summer job just to get away from him and the farm. I never thanked him but of all the things he taught me , a work ethic was the thing that became the most valuable. A few months ago our swimming pool pump went out. I figured the brushes were burnt and they were. I disassembled the pump motor on the patio table and put new brushes in it and re installed it. My wife of 34 years was amazed and asked me how I knew how to do that. I told her my dad taught me and thinking back on it I don’t think I’ve put brushes in an electric motor in the previous 34 years but I still remembered how.

 

[WGWFA]

What are they doing to those young men over in Oxford????

The Nkemdiche brothers, Corral, and now this?

they’re spoiled little ***** when they get on campus.

 

[mstateglfr]

Located in North Mississippi. I’ll give you the flip side. I’ve hired engineers, recent graduates, from good ole Mississippi State who show up the first day in starched khakis and a long sleeve white shirt to a manufacturing environment in a non air conditioned environment in Ms in the summer. Did you not get a clue when I interviewed you wearing shorts and wiping sweat off my forehead during the interview That this wasn’t that kind of job? Just because you have a degree doesn’t mean you’re destined for a life of leisure. Growing up I hated my father because he found work for me to do and growing up on a farm there was no shortage of jobs to do. When I was 15 and through out high school I always found an after school or summer job just to get away from him and the farm. I never thanked him but of all the things he taught me , a work ethic was the thing that became the most valuable. A few months ago our swimming pool pump went out. I figured the brushes were burnt and they were. I disassembled the pump motor on the patio table and put new brushes in it and re installed it. My wife of 34 years was amazed and asked me how I knew how to do that. I told her my dad taught me and thinking back on it I don’t think I’ve put brushes in an electric motor in the previous 34 years but I still remembered how.

You lost me again.

You are criticizing the recent college grads because they weren't given a dress code and they dressed too nicely for the job?

Oh wow, how ever will you manage such a travesty?***

 

[Ghostman]

Another question or 3.... Why is mental illness so much more prevalent today? Was it always this bad and we didn't know what it was? Or are there just a lot more people with mental disease today, and if so, why is that?

 

[SanfordRJones]

Negative, negative, negative, negative & negative.

you want to play the kumbaya ******** game, Pat little Johnny on the hand and give him a hug while telling him it’s going to be ok. That ain’t how reality works sparky.

Do you completely lack any empathy, or are you just an a s s hole?