Go find a triple option coach and work into it a passing game. It can be done and if done effectively, would be difficult for SEC powers to prepare for in just one week. We could recruit a nice stable of RBs and only need 2-3 stud receivers and a couple good TEs. A well-oiled triple option is very difficult to defend against, And a QB who can run it well himself plus be a fairly decent passer would be dynamite. I think the situation we find ourselves in, a good triple option could produce 7-9 wins pretty much every year with an occasional 10 win season. I would be good with that.
One thing that might make us football competitive.......
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That sounds like the same general idea when we decided to be an air raid offense with Leach.
I actually liked that idea when he was here. It made it easier to compete for players because the players we would go after for the air raid were not the same players every other team was going after for a “standard” offense.
Leach was the original inventor of the air raid, had been using it longer than anyone else, and was better with it than anyone else.
I’m not saying it was ever a type of offense that would win championships but it would allow us, with our limited budget, to get the kind of players needed for it because other teams were recruiting a different kind of players.
The same principle would apply with a triple option offense. The problem is that there may not be a triple option coach who is as good with it as Leach was with the air raid.
Just my two cents.
I actually liked that idea when he was here. It made it easier to compete for players because the players we would go after for the air raid were not the same players every other team was going after for a “standard” offense.
Leach was the original inventor of the air raid, had been using it longer than anyone else, and was better with it than anyone else.
I’m not saying it was ever a type of offense that would win championships but it would allow us, with our limited budget, to get the kind of players needed for it because other teams were recruiting a different kind of players.
The same principle would apply with a triple option offense. The problem is that there may not be a triple option coach who is as good with it as Leach was with the air raid.
Just my two cents.
Maybe a service academy coach. And they usually like to field strong defenses too. Yeah, not many choices out there. I noticed Navy was incorporating more passing into their triple option and seemed to be very effective. I had a hard time telling when they might pass or not.
Pretty much the players that Rocky recruited and then Jackie and Watson Brown coached up in 91-92 is the blue print. We were mostly an option offense. However we keep teams honest with Harris and Truitt at WR.
Not the triple option but your own Bo Bounds constantly pumps up coach Rich Rod and his unique offensive system.
I’ve been saying this since we had the chance to hire Paul Johnson, probably twice. Since he was at Georgia Southern, and then went back Navy. We hired Crooms instead.
Larry Simpleton though hiring Crooms would get us less NCAA penalties. As usually he mismanaged that too.
Yes Watson had the ball rolling with my personal favorite quarterback of all time, Sleepy Robinson. We had the number one option rated quarterback in the country, that had just let his team in LaGrange Georgia to the USA Today number one ranking in America, Rodney Hudson ready to take over. Then Watson left and Jackie changed the offense to pro style.
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I've always said that if your are not as talented, you have to be different. Vandy has embraced a pistol option style attack with some serious misdirection & its working. Navy & Army are both 5-0 and have morphed from straight flexbone to a various formation option attack (Gun & Under Center). It's the most beautiful thing to watch in football when its done right!!!
Hell Naw!Agreed. A lot of our fan base and most on this board don’t understand or can’t accept who we are. Those programs you’ve mentioned know who they are, and thus the gorilla warfare approach needed.
This thread has @OG Goat Holder written all over it. I came around to his line of thinking on this, which is what many of you are saying: we can't out-Bama Bama or UGA, LSU, etc. We have to be a creative and different. While not Leach's Air Raid, I'm hoping Lebby can get us there. There not being a national contender every year, but competitive and with an outside chance twice a decade.
Rich Rod, Malzahn.........Willie Fritz. All could have worked in this mold.
I do doubt how many innovators we will continue to see, because folks are so focused on just buying talent and running RPO yardball.
This is correct. And funny enough, Leach actually slowed the offense down in order to mesh with the defense at MSU. I wasn't sold on Leach initially because I thought we'd be a high-flying track meet program like Wazzou was and I was like, that shlt won't work here. But he modified and used the short passes to become a methodical offense. Some of that may have been Will Rogers, who knows.
One other thing to consider is that the rules today make it advantageous to throw the ball. So that hurts us when trying to find a run-based system.
Go look up Paul Johnson and his success at Georgia Tech. He was successful his first two seasons when teams from the ACC hadnt seen it in years (20-7) He went 63-53 his remaining years... in a conference much weaker than the SEC.
Not saying it isnt a good idea.. but Paul Johnson was basically the best to ever do it in recent time... and his ceiling at GT was likely higher than one could expect here.
Im not sure how many people would be good with that return and how many wouldnt. Seems like it would be very leach like. A lot of middle of the road years with some around here expecting more, while others around here thinking 7-8 wins and bowl games is about where are ceiling is.
Not saying it isnt a good idea.. but Paul Johnson was basically the best to ever do it in recent time... and his ceiling at GT was likely higher than one could expect here.
Im not sure how many people would be good with that return and how many wouldnt. Seems like it would be very leach like. A lot of middle of the road years with some around here expecting more, while others around here thinking 7-8 wins and bowl games is about where are ceiling is.
I will quit watching completely if we hire a triple option coach. That is boring as 17.
Vanderbilt just beat Alabama with a modern conventional offense. We don't need a gimmick. We need a coach to rebuild the program. Maybe Lebby grows into that guy, but he doesn't seem like the guy so far.
If you want to zig instead of zag I am all for it, but not the 17ing triple option. Maybe hire an NFL assistant from the 49ers or Rams. Run a play action based, under center offense that utilizes a fullback the way Shanahan does. Get deebo type short stocky receivers that might get left out of big school recruiting because of their size but work great in a hybrid role. Run that old wide zone power that Mike and Kyle Shanahan have used for 30+ years.
For the love of God, anything but a triple option. Nobody wants to play in that crap.
Vanderbilt just beat Alabama with a modern conventional offense. We don't need a gimmick. We need a coach to rebuild the program. Maybe Lebby grows into that guy, but he doesn't seem like the guy so far.
If you want to zig instead of zag I am all for it, but not the 17ing triple option. Maybe hire an NFL assistant from the 49ers or Rams. Run a play action based, under center offense that utilizes a fullback the way Shanahan does. Get deebo type short stocky receivers that might get left out of big school recruiting because of their size but work great in a hybrid role. Run that old wide zone power that Mike and Kyle Shanahan have used for 30+ years.
For the love of God, anything but a triple option. Nobody wants to play in that crap.
Would be nice right about now.
The difference in us and GT is that they wrongly ran their niche coach off a decade into it, when they had gotten the rewards (including throttling one of our best teams). Our morons wanted Leach gone after the first year.
I hear you about the triple-option, but the key is to build something repeatable, plug and play. We all know this Vandy deal was just a one-off in their 'up' year. Yeah, great victory that they'll remember forever, but Bama was a paper #1 and Vandy will go back to losing this week, probably. If they don't beat Kentucky they probably won't even make a bowl game.
I’ll take “boring” over 2-10. Its about Ws and Ls at the end of the day. None of this is going to matter though, Lebby will be here at least three years. Our recruiting does not seem to be competitive, and it’s probably due to a lack of nil money.
The gig was up.... The 2014 game against us was high last hoo-rah. Straight downhill from there for 4 years.
He finished with a 5-6 and 7-6 season. And 2-11 vs ranked opponents in the years after that game....
Props to GT for giving it a try. But they decided they'd could go better... and just like with leach. They had to go thru the dark period of rebuilding a roster that was full of a style of players that could only be used in that system.... They are finally starting to see the light now. 4 years later.
Have to agree, 9-4 was awful, this stuff is a lot better. There’s something called the transfer portal, other teams use it. We haven’t brought a high school level player in through the portal in three years.
That's always been fake news, and especially so in the era of portal immediate eligibility.
Those type offenses will not win ANYTHING of significance, neither will we. Those offenses won't score against Bama, UGA, UTs, OU, or anyone else with a strong defense. The Vandy game was an outlier, Bama wasn't ready to play.
With the triple option it will be a boring 4-8. Paul Johnson went 14-21 in the ACC during his last 4 seasons. That was in the time when it was Clemson and a bunch of MAC level teams in the ACC.
ETA:
And do not compare us to the service academics. We will not play in the AAC and we will not recruit a roster full of players that have the makeup of service academy players. Those are 2-3* athletes that are 5* level students. They are disciplined enough to commit to a career in the military and willing to learn how play triple option offense for the joy of playing one more down of football in their life. We are more likely to have a roster full of Georgia players than Army players.
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agree to disagree.... track record shows different.
We act like the portal is an immediate save all. Deion brought in 60 new players included 2 5 star players and only won 4 games in year 1. Might win 6 this year. Having the portal doesnt mean you are going to find players that fit your scheme or that said players will want to come.
Cant say it any better than that. Paul Johnson was the best to do it. Was in a much weaker conferernce than ours... and the gig was up... and GT had to pay the brunt of rebuilding an entire roster full of wishbone players... along with recruits
Track record shows Texas Tech going 7-5, 5-7, 7-5 and 7-5 after Leach left.
Track record shows Wazzou going 1-2 (COVID season), 7-5, 7-5 and 5-7 after Leach left.
How the 17 does that show a track record of Leach leaving a bad program? It doesn't. Fake news.
Except for Arkansas which just beat Tennessee because they completely rebuilt in the portal in one season. five star and 4 star LBs on defense, FCS sack leader at DE, Safetys from Florida and tennessee, ......new qb, rb , wr, three starting O lineman.
now compare and contrast that with our “portal class”. This is why Arkansas is headed for a bowl game and we are struggling to beat UMass.
3 seasons after leach at Texas Tech: 21-17
3 seasons after leach at WSU: 15-15
2 seasons after leach at MSU: 6-11
Neither coach made it past year 3
Again these are facts. Shallow them if you may.. or go get on your knees and service your leach monument
Weve already had this discussion... 70% of arkansas's 2 deep arent portal guys. They also didnt make a coaching change
The arkansas situation is much different that ours.
Lots of teams swing and miss in the portal... go ask Florida State how it worked out for them.
Also arkansas went 4-8 last seasosn and lost 1 possession games at LSU, at Ole Miss, and against Alabama. They were far from terrible.... AND..... With the looks of their scheudle, its very likely they'll finish 6-6. The entire rebuild you are screaming out will likely at best lead to a 2 game improvement for Arkansas.
Niche hard to prep for offense is a fine strategy but you have absolutely nail the personnel part. Continuity and having veterans in the system is of utmost importance - something that is exponentially more difficult in this NIL era. I don't how you pull that off if you aren't a service academy.
@Dawgg.......you say I like to argue, this here is the master of arguing with nothing. He literally just restated what I said and then said I was wrong.
Yep. What it shows is that when leach leaves a program, there was never a smooth transition. No coach made it more than 3 seasons following leach and struggled to find success.
Unless your calling those recrods successful. Keep in mind Texas Tech at the time was a staple to be a top 20 team basically never came close to that level the 3 seasons after leach, thus resulting in tubberville being fired. Is 15-15 at WSU success? What about the 6-11 here?
Ive never said leach had a bad program. What i said was, is that leach recruited pieces that only he could use correctly and make function right. Thus when he leaves/left... it left the next staff trying to make those same pieces work as well as leach did ... and track record shows that never happened.
Here is the question that all this chatter about what gimmick we need to adopt has brought to the Ole Devil's mind. How many of you think we need some type of gimmick offense to be successful? Whatever it may be, or is there more of you that think we can do it with a modern spread offense just with better players that we will need to recruit or the portal blesses us with?
For the record, I am on the side of doing things differently. I think we do need to take a different approach than most of the other teams around us given our obvious limitations. Does this mean we embrace limitations? Of course not. It just means we have to be realistic about who and where we are in the current landscape of college football. It also does not mean we do not keep trying to reduce or eliminate the limitations. I have said I hate the pay for play of the NIL, but my feelings do not matter. That is the current landscape. The way to get better fast is to open up your wallets.
For the record, I am on the side of doing things differently. I think we do need to take a different approach than most of the other teams around us given our obvious limitations. Does this mean we embrace limitations? Of course not. It just means we have to be realistic about who and where we are in the current landscape of college football. It also does not mean we do not keep trying to reduce or eliminate the limitations. I have said I hate the pay for play of the NIL, but my feelings do not matter. That is the current landscape. The way to get better fast is to open up your wallets.
Those programs stayed with somewhat similar offenses and Leach wasn't sitting on go for retirement. They didn't play in the SEC either.
I don't think you need a gimmick. You need to scheme up an offense to take advantage of how your typical defense is built out.
Most things work in cycles. Offenses have spread out and gotten pass heavy with speedier players. Defenses have adapted to that with hybrid type players that have a better chance at defending the edges and keeping up with a route runner. What opportunity does that present? A power/strength schemed focused on running up the gut and eating clock. Old school Kang power I stuff. Just run over the defender in front of you.
Makes logical sense but the problem with it is that it's boring as hell. People don't like watching 7 minute drives with 2 passes. So - we will stay in this cycles for longer than we probably should until a couple programs realize and show they can win with a boring bowling ball method and others follow suit. It'll trend that way for a while then people realize that it's time to spread it out again. Lather, rinse, repeat (over decades).
Have to do both. Right now, we have no plan except just donate more. Keenum has no plan (for athletics), Salmon has no plan, Lebby has no plan. Well, I take that back - we have a plan, it's just simple. Keenum wants to mimic Ole Miss, Salmon wants us to donate more, and Lebby wants to muh showtime. That's not a good enough plan.
Keenum really doesn't need to make the plan for athletics, but we need to have an AD with a strategic focus, and Keenum needs to be on the same page as him. We need a blueprint for football, especially for NIL, because we can't ignore it. We can just hire the best coaches possible in baseball and basketball (hopefully with some sort of minor strategic plan there too), and roll. Can't do it in football.
We need to narrow things down to the type of coaches we want, year in and year out. A specific, defined football mission statement, therefore, the decisions we make are easy. We need to prioritize position groups with NIL, etc. And one thing that goes against what many think.....I actually think we need to lead with defense.