OT: A pastor's rant

[preacher_dawg]

Ok, so I have been thinking about this for a while and this is the best place to do it as this forum has the widest range of people that I know. What's the rant about? Church and politics.

So, there are two things that I am passionate about apart from Jesus, my family, and my ministry, and that is Mississippi State and politics, but in my role as a pastor, I stay away from politics. Being in the north, I feel a little bit of freedom to talk about State as I thinks it makes me more approachable, but nobody in my congregation knows who plan on voting for, even though as I apply the text of Scripture that I am preaching on to society, they can probably figure that out, but I am intentionally vague about the candidate that I support and who I intend to vote for.

Which brings me to my rant. I was so sick of churches getting involved in politics in 2016, endorsing a man who has had some indiscretions in his life. Now I may or may not have voted for and even supported him privately, but in my role as pastor, I just keep my mouth shut.

Here is why this is important, because ever since then, and really before that, Christianity and churches have been on the decline. People are becoming increasingly dechurched. Why? One of the reasons I have found is that they look at churches that preach and teach about morality and see their actions and really ask themselves, do these people really mean what they say?

My fear is that with the seemingly election of this same candidate, and churches again becoming embroiled in politics, that it might have the same effect as it has been having, even more so. Now, I may or may not actually vote for this candidate, but that is besides the point. My hope and desire is that churches can clearly preach and teach the Gospel to all people, regardless of where they stand on politics.

One last thing, and that I am not saying the people in the pew should not be involved in politics, but for the pastors and ministers within the church, we need to stick to teaching and applying the Bible (which will inevitably touch on things our culture deals with, such as gender and sexuality), but we stay out of politics.

Ok, sorry. Sermon over. But I would love to know your thoughts.

 

[Shmuley]

2 Timothy 4:2-5

Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

 

[dawgman42]

2 Timothy 4:2-5

Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

++For some New Testament truth from the good rabbi.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Not sure where you've been but this ain't new. When Clinton was running the first time, I remember folks complaining that so many pastors (many of the them black) from the pulpit were supporting him (due to his abortion stance).

 

[Boom Boom]

Ok, so I have been thinking about this for a while and this is the best place to do it as this forum has the widest range of people that I know. What's the rant about? Church and politics.

So, there are two things that I am passionate about apart from Jesus, my family, and my ministry, and that is Mississippi State and politics, but in my role as a pastor, I stay away from politics. Being in the north, I feel a little bit of freedom to talk about State as I thinks it makes me more approachable, but nobody in my congregation knows who plan on voting for, even though as I apply the text of Scripture that I am preaching on to society, they can probably figure that out, but I am intentionally vague about the candidate that I support and who I intend to vote for.

Which brings me to my rant. I was so sick of churches getting involved in politics in 2016, endorsing a man who has had some indiscretions in his life. Now I may or may not have voted for and even supported him privately, but in my role as pastor, I just keep my mouth shut.

Here is why this is important, because ever since then, and really before that, Christianity and churches have been on the decline. People are becoming increasingly dechurched. Why? One of the reasons I have found is that they look at churches that preach and teach about morality and see their actions and really ask themselves, do these people really mean what they say?

My fear is that with the seemingly election of this same candidate, and churches again becoming embroiled in politics, that it might have the same effect as it has been having, even more so. Now, I may or may not actually vote for this candidate, but that is besides the point. My hope and desire is that churches can clearly preach and teach the Gospel to all people, regardless of where they stand on politics.

One last thing, and that I am not saying the people in the pew should not be involved in politics, but for the pastors and ministers within the church, we need to stick to teaching and applying the Bible (which will inevitably touch on things our culture deals with, such as gender and sexuality), but we stay out of politics.

Ok, sorry. Sermon over. But I would love to know your thoughts.

It's a difficult question. Churches should stay out of politics as much as poasible....but the values, morals, principles espoused cannot be tossed aside and ignored to avoid offending some members. Churches should be offering guidance and caution, without directing, the same as they do with other subjects.

 

[Shmuley]

++For some New Testament truth from the good rabbi.

A Good Word from the Pharisee of the Pharisees, via the leadership of the Holy Spirit, to his young protege pastor thrust into a tough situation and needing encouragement.

 

[turkish]

Ok, so I have been thinking about this for a while and this is the best place to do it as this forum has the widest range of people that I know. What's the rant about? Church and politics.

So, there are two things that I am passionate about apart from Jesus, my family, and my ministry, and that is Mississippi State and politics, but in my role as a pastor, I stay away from politics. Being in the north, I feel a little bit of freedom to talk about State as I thinks it makes me more approachable, but nobody in my congregation knows who plan on voting for, even though as I apply the text of Scripture that I am preaching on to society, they can probably figure that out, but I am intentionally vague about the candidate that I support and who I intend to vote for.

Which brings me to my rant. I was so sick of churches getting involved in politics in 2016, endorsing a man who has had some indiscretions in his life. Now I may or may not have voted for and even supported him privately, but in my role as pastor, I just keep my mouth shut.

Here is why this is important, because ever since then, and really before that, Christianity and churches have been on the decline. People are becoming increasingly dechurched. Why? One of the reasons I have found is that they look at churches that preach and teach about morality and see their actions and really ask themselves, do these people really mean what they say?

My fear is that with the seemingly election of this same candidate, and churches again becoming embroiled in politics, that it might have the same effect as it has been having, even more so. Now, I may or may not actually vote for this candidate, but that is besides the point. My hope and desire is that churches can clearly preach and teach the Gospel to all people, regardless of where they stand on politics.

One last thing, and that I am not saying the people in the pew should not be involved in politics, but for the pastors and ministers within the church, we need to stick to teaching and applying the Bible (which will inevitably touch on things our culture deals with, such as gender and sexuality), but we stay out of politics.

Ok, sorry. Sermon over. But I would love to know your thoughts.

Is there not another place in the vast internet you could’ve posted this where it’d be more relevant than at SPS??

 

[The Cooterpoot]

 

[preacher_dawg]

Is there not another place in the vast internet you could’ve posted this where it’d be more relevant than at SPS??

None better than this one.

 

[DawgInThe256]

In general I agree with you. Unfortunately the church I attend is somewhat high profile in my city, so our pastors over the years have felt compelled to weigh in on poltical issues. We lost a few members after our pastor made comments about the Jan 6 ruckus.

 

[jxndawg]

I love the show Sunday Morning on CBS (even though I only get to watch the first half hour or so, so that we can get ready for church). If you've never watched the show, it's 90 minutes of human interest-type stories, movies/music/arts/sports, interviews with interesting people, etc. It's perfect for a Sunday morning - a relaxing break from getting bombarded with hard news all week.

One Sunday years ago - I swear I think it was something Trump related, maybe an impeachment - they opened the show with a story about whatever it was that was going on, like a regular news show. I immediately turned it off and felt a little betrayed - the whole purpose of watching this show is to not think about the news for a little while.

My point is, if I went to church and heard my pastor start talking about politics, I'd feel the exact same way. I view church as a respite from politics and the world. Sure, there may be times when the church needs to speak to something grave happening in the political arena, but I think it should be exceedingly rare. My denomination has a line about it that I think tries to strike the right balance: "The church must be free to speak to civil authorities, neither claiming expert knowledge it does not have, nor remaining silent when God's word is clear."

 

[dorndawg]

I applaud your approach - I'm very much an advocate of separation of church and state. Obviously, they can nor should never be completely separated.

You talk about church, which has seen a long decline. I certainly wouldn't want to tell you all about your job, but I'm not sure 2016 was the catalyst. The pandemic certainly accelerated it.



My sense is we are in the early stages where Americans really are losing touch and faith in institutions as a whole; one only needs to read this messageboard to see people's lack of attachment to organized religion (travel ball on Sunday is far from the only culprit, but good Lord doing kid's sports on Sunday strikes me as awful), schools, universities (ha), government (HAHA), civic groups, and even recreational things like bowling leagues and Elk's Lodges. We trust each other less and less, and seemingly don't want to be around others as much. And certainly not in any kind of hierarchical setting.

​

 

[615dawg]

The choice between Heaven and Hell is easy. Its the choice between Heaven and Earth that gets most of us.

Here's where I am - just a lowly Presbyterian. I live in this world 7 days a week.

Just this week, I am disappointed at coworkers who suck, vendors that overpromise and underdeliver. I get frustrated when food service workers that don't put enough ice in my tea, and I ponder the competency crisis that is becoming a huge issue. I have to deal with a grocery bill that is insane, and recovering from a vacation that costs more than my first car. I have kids in high school that need everything, and I feel guilty for taking a little time to myself to play CFB '25 so I don't buy it. All while a candidate and former President survived an assassination attempt that was either aided by corruption or guided by incompetence. Then I have to watch a stripper famous for 17ing rappers speak at the RNC, and watch one night closed by a prayer to a demon - and this is my preferred party that is supposed to represent me. The other side is trying to push out their candidate because they have covered up his long cognitive issues. I have to wonder who is running the country? And Ole Miss is likely to be good in football.

Just preach the Gospel on Sunday to me and those like me. I need it more than anything. Leave the politics out. I get that everywhere I look.

 

[patdog]

In general I agree with you. Unfortunately the church I attend is somewhat high profile in my city, so our pastors over the years have felt compelled to weigh in on poltical issues. We lost a few members after our pastor made comments about the Jan 6 ruckus.

If your pastor is weighing in on political issues, you need to find another church.

 

[RotorHead]

I would theorize that church attendance is only falling in historically dedicated/orthodox denominations. The non-denominational ideology probably has maintained or grown due to their propensity to be lenient and not touch on the topics that will drive people away. People nowadays don’t want to hear that THEIR “truth” isn’t. They want to be told to “do them” and “live your best life” and not compare their lives with what God calls.

 

[preacher_dawg]

In general I agree with you. Unfortunately the church I attend is somewhat high profile in my city, so our pastors over the years have felt compelled to weigh in on poltical issues. We lost a few members after our pastor made comments about the Jan 6 ruckus.

After last Saturday, all I prayed for was an end to all political violence and we would return back to Christ. Nothing further, even though I am sure there are those who wanted me to go further.

I applaud your approach - I'm very much an advocate of separation of church and state. Obviously, they can nor should never be completely separated.

You talk about church, which has seen a long decline. I certainly wouldn't want to tell you all about your job, but I'm not sure 2016 was the catalyst. The pandemic certainly accelerated it.

View attachment 612766

My sense is we are in the early stages where Americans really are losing touch and faith in institutions as a whole; one only needs to read this messageboard to see people's lack of attachment to organized religion (travel ball on Sunday is far from the only culprit, but good Lord doing kid's sports on Sunday strikes me as awful), schools, universities (ha), government (HAHA), civic groups, and even recreational things like bowling leagues and Elk's Lodges. We trust each other less and less, and seemingly don't want to be around others as much. And certainly not in any kind of hierarchical setting.

​

Yeah, I would agree that it didn't start with 2016, but I do think that election accelerated what was already happening.

 

[DawgInThe256]

If your pastor is weighing in on political issues, you need to find another church.

To be fair, I didn't consider his comments to be political.

 

[preacher_dawg]

After last Saturday, all I prayed for was an end to all political violence and we would return back to Christ. Nothing further, even though I am sure there are those who wanted me to go further.

Yeah, I would agree that it didn't start with 2016, but I do think that election accelerated what was already happening.

How did I do that? Combine my replies into one.

 

[PK Dawg]

Can’t say I’ve ever heard politics discussed within my church in the Florida panhandle. Of course it goes without saying that about 98% of the community are Trump supporters so I guess there isn't really a need for churches to get involved

 

[40 acres and a mule]

"He who is without sin should cast the first stone", Jesus Christ, circa 30 AD.
I agree Pastors and Churches as much as possible should stay out of politics. What they ARE supposed to do, and in my opinion are failing almost universally, is teaching the Word of God. Lots of church league softball, gymnasiums hooked onto churches, church potluck suppers, ect., but very little Biblical teaching. Have you ever taken a Book from the bible, such as Esphesians, and taken it line upon line, precept upon precept, and taught it to your congregation? It was ONE letter, written by the Apostle Paul, remember? How about exegete it from the original Greek? I doubt it. Very few pastors do. But there are a few, and their churches are overflowing. I hope you are one of those exceptions.

Churches are failing because their leadership is failing. Too many Pastors pass the teaching of the Bible off on the Sunday school teachers, then give a 15 minute canned sermon that the have given 500 times before. Why? Because it's EASY! Actually teaching the Word is difficult.

I quit going to Sunday church because it was the same thing, every Sunday. No teaching of the Word. Just an emotional fix, with lots of music. A production. A show. Luckily, I found a pastor who actually teaches the entire Bible, and not just give an Evangelical message every Sunday.

 

[thatsbaseball]

I have attended first Catholic then Protestant churches for over a half a century and never had a priest or preacher bring up politics from the pulpit. Am I the only one that's had this experience ?

 

[LOTRGOTDAWGFAN]

I left this hot mess of a thing called christianity and its 'bride' decades ago not because of the sheer hypocrasy in its dealings but absolute utter nonsense that is horribly written in the buy-bull. someone labeled it 'the goatherder's guide to the cosmos' years back and it has become a pretty accurate description. That aside, watching from the outside in, I see an absolute desperate and petty attempt by the church, both catholic and protestant side as well, to continue to make (if not force) to make itself relevant in a modern world that is moving on without it...finally. This isn't recent, it goes back to the reagan fiasco of the 80s where wealthy christians have been using their influence on elected persons to subvert the constitution at any cost. These latest acts from trump to project 2025 are like the last screams of a dying warthog to push fear and fearmonger people back into its membership.

In the words of the late great Christopher Hitchens: "We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. On every side, there is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid."

 

[Anon1704414204]

One of my favorite quotes about Christianity came from a Hindu who said "I like your Christ but not so much your Christians."

To me, even if you are a politician, there's nothing wrong with doing your job with God's Main Command which is loving others like HE loves us.

 

[WilCoDawg]

"He who is without sin should cast the first stone", Jesus Christ, circa 30 AD.
I agree Pastors and Churches as much as possible should stay out of politics. What they ARE supposed to do, and in my opinion are failing almost universally, is teaching the Word of God. Lots of church league softball, gymnasiums hooked onto churches, church potluck suppers, ect., but very little Biblical teaching. Have you ever taken a Book from the bible, such as Esphesians, and taken it line upon line, precept upon precept, and taught it to your congregation? It was ONE letter, written by the Apostle Paul, remember? How about exegete it from the original Greek? I doubt it. Very few pastors do. But there are a few, and their churches are overflowing. I hope you are one of those exceptions.

Churches are failing because their leadership is failing. Too many Pastors pass the teaching of the Bible off on the Sunday school teachers, then give a 15 minute canned sermon that the have given 500 times before. Why? Because it's EASY! Actually teaching the Word is difficult.

I quit going to Sunday church because it was the same thing, every Sunday. No teaching of the Word. Just an emotional fix, with lots of music. A production. A show. Luckily, I found a pastor who actually teaches the entire Bible, and not just give an Evangelical message every Sunday.

This! There’s plenty of churches around me but 95% prefer to preach a fuzzy, feel-good message or life hack/self-help message. That’s nice, but church is to worship our Creator, thank our Savior, and learn more of His Word to get closer to Him. Sadly the larger churches are larger because the latter type preaching is what most people want now.

 

[WilCoDawg]

One of my favorite quotes about Christianity came from a Hindu who said "I like your Christ but not so much your Christians."

To me, even if you are a politician, there's nothing wrong with doing your job with God's Main Command which is loving others like HE loves us.

The funny thing is that that can be said of every religion. People are hypocrites no matter the religion or lack thereof.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

While we're on the subject of religion, my hot take is that by the end of the century organized religion will be, for the most part, dead. The exceptions will be "feel good" mega churches (like the one that dominates MS) which are more motivational "broadway show" productions than fire and brimstone and small super serious, rule-oriented religions, like Pentecostals. Even of the aforementioned they will be few and far between.

Catholics may hold out longer than most as they are centralized, very wealthy and long ago embraced the drinking/partying lifestyle that many Protestants are just now getting on board with.

 

[HailStout]

Over the years, my faith has faded into the point where I am basically agnostic more than anything else at this point. I can literally remember the exact moment it began. I was going to a prominent Baptist Church in Jackson. The preacher at that time gave an entire sermon Telling us to vote for Bush over Clinton because it is what God wants us to do. I voted for Bush. I was never going to vote for Clinton. But I remember it bothering me that the preacher acted like he had a direct hotline to what God wanted me to do in a voting booth. He created the first crack in my faith that at this point has basically been shattered. The amount of preachers and churches that are openly supporting a political candidate now is beyond uncomfortable and inappropriate.

 

[preacher_dawg]

"He who is without sin should cast the first stone", Jesus Christ, circa 30 AD.
I agree Pastors and Churches as much as possible should stay out of politics. What they ARE supposed to do, and in my opinion are failing almost universally, is teaching the Word of God. Lots of church league softball, gymnasiums hooked onto churches, church potluck suppers, ect., but very little Biblical teaching. Have you ever taken a Book from the bible, such as Esphesians, and taken it line upon line, precept upon precept, and taught it to your congregation? It was ONE letter, written by the Apostle Paul, remember? How about exegete it from the original Greek? I doubt it. Very few pastors do. But there are a few, and their churches are overflowing. I hope you are one of those exceptions.

Churches are failing because their leadership is failing. Too many Pastors pass the teaching of the Bible off on the Sunday school teachers, then give a 15 minute canned sermon that the have given 500 times before. Why? Because it's EASY! Actually teaching the Word is difficult.

I quit going to Sunday church because it was the same thing, every Sunday. No teaching of the Word. Just an emotional fix, with lots of music. A production. A show. Luckily, I found a pastor who actually teaches the entire Bible, and not just give an Evangelical message every Sunday.

Yep. Going through Exodus right now. I am leaning at preaching through Romans next.

 

[Msdeltareb]

Pastors should stay as far away from politics as possible, but there is some overlap that can't be avoided.

I realize you said you are not in the south, but if you were in the south Id say avoid college sports like the plague. I have almost a physical reaction when I hear pastors crack jokes about "the other side", whoever that may be, on Sunday mornings in the fall. It will 100% push you away from your congregation members on that "other side" and I can't imagine a worse reason to let that happen than sports.

 

[Boom Boom]

I quit going to Sunday church because it was the same thing, every Sunday. No teaching of the Word. Just an emotional fix, with lots of music. A production. A show. Luckily, I found a pastor who actually teaches the entire Bible, and not just give an Evangelical message every Sunday.

This is close to my feeling. But I don't think it's just a show. It's validation. It's, you're here so go forth and know you're all good no need to be better.

 

[patdog]

I quit going to Sunday church because it was the same thing, every Sunday. No teaching of the Word. Just an emotional fix, with lots of music. A production. A show. Luckily, I found a pastor who actually teaches the entire Bible, and not just give an Evangelical message every Sunday.

A lot of (false) churches are like that. But, as you found, there are churches that preach the Bible simply & without a big entertainment production. It’s not hard to tell the true churches from the false ones if you’re looking.

 

[skipperDawg]

Ok, so I have been thinking about this for a while and this is the best place to do it as this forum has the widest range of people that I know. What's the rant about? Church and politics.

So, there are two things that I am passionate about apart from Jesus, my family, and my ministry, and that is Mississippi State and politics, but in my role as a pastor, I stay away from politics. Being in the north, I feel a little bit of freedom to talk about State as I thinks it makes me more approachable, but nobody in my congregation knows who plan on voting for, even though as I apply the text of Scripture that I am preaching on to society, they can probably figure that out, but I am intentionally vague about the candidate that I support and who I intend to vote for.

Which brings me to my rant. I was so sick of churches getting involved in politics in 2016, endorsing a man who has had some indiscretions in his life. Now I may or may not have voted for and even supported him privately, but in my role as pastor, I just keep my mouth shut.

Here is why this is important, because ever since then, and really before that, Christianity and churches have been on the decline. People are becoming increasingly dechurched. Why? One of the reasons I have found is that they look at churches that preach and teach about morality and see their actions and really ask themselves, do these people really mean what they say?

My fear is that with the seemingly election of this same candidate, and churches again becoming embroiled in politics, that it might have the same effect as it has been having, even more so. Now, I may or may not actually vote for this candidate, but that is besides the point. My hope and desire is that churches can clearly preach and teach the Gospel to all people, regardless of where they stand on politics.

One last thing, and that I am not saying the people in the pew should not be involved in politics, but for the pastors and ministers within the church, we need to stick to teaching and applying the Bible (which will inevitably touch on things our culture deals with, such as gender and sexuality), but we stay out of politics.

Ok, sorry. Sermon over. But I would love to know your thoughts.

I’m waiting on the offering plate to come along

 

[85Bears]

Ok, so I have been thinking about this for a while and this is the best place to do it as this forum has the widest range of people that I know. What's the rant about? Church and politics.

So, there are two things that I am passionate about apart from Jesus, my family, and my ministry, and that is Mississippi State and politics, but in my role as a pastor, I stay away from politics. Being in the north, I feel a little bit of freedom to talk about State as I thinks it makes me more approachable, but nobody in my congregation knows who plan on voting for, even though as I apply the text of Scripture that I am preaching on to society, they can probably figure that out, but I am intentionally vague about the candidate that I support and who I intend to vote for.

Which brings me to my rant. I was so sick of churches getting involved in politics in 2016, endorsing a man who has had some indiscretions in his life. Now I may or may not have voted for and even supported him privately, but in my role as pastor, I just keep my mouth shut.

Here is why this is important, because ever since then, and really before that, Christianity and churches have been on the decline. People are becoming increasingly dechurched. Why? One of the reasons I have found is that they look at churches that preach and teach about morality and see their actions and really ask themselves, do these people really mean what they say?

My fear is that with the seemingly election of this same candidate, and churches again becoming embroiled in politics, that it might have the same effect as it has been having, even more so. Now, I may or may not actually vote for this candidate, but that is besides the point. My hope and desire is that churches can clearly preach and teach the Gospel to all people, regardless of where they stand on politics.

One last thing, and that I am not saying the people in the pew should not be involved in politics, but for the pastors and ministers within the church, we need to stick to teaching and applying the Bible (which will inevitably touch on things our culture deals with, such as gender and sexuality), but we stay out of politics.

Ok, sorry. Sermon over. But I would love to know your thoughts.

I think given where society is going with transgender surgeries on minors, abortion , same sex marriage, discrimination against Christians....at times a Pastor has to speak out.

General partisan politics, blue team vs red team, I agree it’s best to stay above the fray.

 

[preacher_dawg]

I’m waiting on the offering plate to come along

We don't do that anymore. We stopped during covid and found that visitors feel more comfortable. Those who regularly attend give sacrifially, but I never pressure them to.

 

[mstateglfr]

Here is why this is important, because ever since then, and really before that, Christianity and churches have been on the decline. People are becoming increasingly dechurched. Why? One of the reasons I have found is that they look at churches that preach and teach about morality and see their actions and really ask themselves, do these people really mean what they say?

I am not sure if hypocrisy/inconsistency in how people preach/worship vs who they actively support as a leader has driven weekly church attendance down.
I am pretty confident it hasnt helped with weekly church attendance.

There are very few situations in life where a person looks at a group that is saying everyone should follow a set of rules while passionately supporting someone who laughs at or doesnt even acknowledge those rules exist, and then says 'yeah, I want to hang out with that group more!'.
^ and to spell it out for some on here, this comment applies regardless of religion or political ideology.


If people hold their nose while voting for who view view as the lesser of two evils, despite that lesser evil being an affront to most everything your sacred religion holds dear, sure I guess that makes sense.
But to actively support and proudly defend the person?...thats bonkers and it sure doesnt help increase church attendance because many who dont attend also dont want to be around a congregation filled with this type of person.





I get that a core part of major religions is to try and convert those who arent part of the religion, but step back and look at who is likely not part of the religion, as well as why. Should the religions change what they teach?...of course not, but in order to bring in more people, they would have to do that.
Perhaps this isnt a downsize, but more of a rightsize. <--I hate that term and use it sorta jokingly, but also genuinely. Why would a group try to bring in a ton of people that dont like what the group is or what the group stands for? Seems like a recipe for frustration and failure. Maybe focusing on further impacting the group that does want to be active would be a better approach. Just spitballin.

Or maybe meet people where they want and continue to develop alternative ways to worship, in addition to the traditional Sunday service. Many dont want to go to a physical building in person and interact with others. Many people do want religious guidance, but on their time.

 

[thatsbaseball]

I left this hot mess of a thing called christianity and its 'bride' decades ago not because of the sheer hypocrasy in its dealings but absolute utter nonsense that is horribly written in the buy-bull. someone labeled it 'the goatherder's guide to the cosmos' years back and it has become a pretty accurate description. That aside, watching from the outside in, I see an absolute desperate and petty attempt by the church, both catholic and protestant side as well, to continue to make (if not force) to make itself relevant in a modern world that is moving on without it...finally. This isn't recent, it goes back to the reagan fiasco of the 80s where wealthy christians have been using their influence on elected persons to subvert the constitution at any cost. These latest acts from trump to project 2025 are like the last screams of a dying warthog to push fear and fearmonger people back into its membership.

In the words of the late great Christopher Hitchens: "We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. On every side, there is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid."

So you are now agnostic, atheist, none of the above ?

 

[mstateglfr]

@preacher_dawg - You have a tough balancing act to perform. Separating politics and religion right now is not easily navigated and probably feels like you cant win no matter what decision/route you try.

 

[mstateglfr]

I think given where society is going with transgender surgeries on minors, abortion , same sex marriage, discrimination against Christians....at times a Pastor has to speak out.

General partisan politics, blue team vs red team, I agree it’s best to stay above the fray.

stop it.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

My pastor recently reminded our congregation that Trump isn’t the Savior. Got a good chuckle from just about everyone. After church, one lady was bothered by it. “He must like Biden because he only went after Trump”. After I stopped laughing, “no ma’am, but that sermon was for you.”

 

[Pars]

Any pastor pushes a political ideology should immediately lose 501c3