OT: A pastor's rant

[She Mate Me]

I don't have anything deep or biblical to add, but it strikes me that many folks here and elsewhere are maybe missing what to me is the most obvious reason for the decline in people who identify as religious.

It's the internet, stupid.

For the vast majority of the history of humanity, access to information beyond the bare basics was extremely limited and even controlled. Even with the advent of more organized educational systems, they were often heavily influenced by biblical teachings.

If you had logical questions about the veracity of what's in the Bible, as basically everyone does at some point, there weren't many options for getting an intelligent outside perspective on your doubts.

The internet has opened the history of all human thought on every subject imaginable up to millions of previously isolated individuals and groups around the globe. They realize they are far from alone in their doubts and are often validated and comforted with new knowledge and new ways to think about life and what may or may not come after.

I know this isn't much of an answer to the original question, but there it is.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I cannot add much to what has already been said. I was involved in the church for a long time, from my youth to young adulthood. I have tried several different religions. We have raised three children, and I would not want to be raising one right now. This is a crazy world, and I don't pray a lot. but I found myself praying for our country a little more these days.

I've tried to write this several times but am rambling. You can probably say I agreed with many previously said things: You could do whatever you want as long as you don't infringe on my rights. I will say I'm not trying to convert anyone. Believe what you want to. And don't try to convert me with some argument. I am almost as tired of the political arguments and the rhetoric from both sides as I am of the countless religious arguments.

I try to get along with everyone, and usually I do. I am lucky enough to have a ton of friends here in Texas and back home in Mississippi, which is probably one of the reasons why I have made friends. I don't discuss religion and politics and never have.

 

[johnson86-1]

If your pastor is weighing in on political issues, you need to find another church.

It depends on whether he is weighing in on politics or just weighing in on issues that are in politics. If you are in a Catholic church or mainstream protestant church, your pastor/priest most likely should be touching on abortion based on the doctrine of his church and if he avoids it because the church's teaching may be unpopular, that's probably not a great church to be in. I think they shouldn't convert that into a recommendation on a particular vote unless it's on an actual issue, like in a proposition for a constitutional amendment or something. I think pastors/priests probably shouldn't weigh in on individual candidates. If it's a catholic church, it's probably fair for priests to point out that some politicians aren't good Catholics or aren't Catholic at all despite what they claim in the context of clarifying church doctrine, but even then I don't think it's proper to use that as an excuse to say members should vote against them.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

In my experience the “Christians” who have fled from Trumpism had already been embracing a type of deism thats hardly in keeping with the biblical precepts. The ones I know were already on board with third wave feminism, pride, rejecting the blood atonement, etc. In other words, main line liberals

That’s a ridiculous statement.

 

[TNDawg1]

Wow….just wow. So to be clear, if someone doesn’t agree with what Trump says they aren’t following the Bible? And using the quotation marks around Christian’s is a nice touch.

I’ve seen this over and over. If you couldn’t/wouldnt affirm things like the apostles creed YEARS AGO then don’t blame Trump for driving you from the faith. This was the case with 75% of the intervarsity chapter I was involved with in college.

 

[johnson86-1]

I would theorize that church attendance is only falling in historically dedicated/orthodox denominations. The non-denominational ideology probably has maintained or grown due to their propensity to be lenient and not touch on the topics that will drive people away. People nowadays don’t want to hear that THEIR “truth” isn’t. They want to be told to “do them” and “live your best life” and not compare their lives with what God calls.

Haven'tn looked at it, but it used to be very much a mixed bag. New non-denominational churches might be doing great, but existing denominations that moved to a "whatever feels nice" type of approach generally got hammered with attendance. Doesn't take most people long to realize they don't need to go to a church and donate money to have somebody tell them that whatever feels right to them is right.

 

[Big Dawg81]

Ok, so I have been thinking about this for a while and this is the best place to do it as this forum has the widest range of people that I know. What's the rant about? Church and politics.

So, there are two things that I am passionate about apart from Jesus, my family, and my ministry, and that is Mississippi State and politics, but in my role as a pastor, I stay away from politics. Being in the north, I feel a little bit of freedom to talk about State as I thinks it makes me more approachable, but nobody in my congregation knows who plan on voting for, even though as I apply the text of Scripture that I am preaching on to society, they can probably figure that out, but I am intentionally vague about the candidate that I support and who I intend to vote for.

Which brings me to my rant. I was so sick of churches getting involved in politics in 2016, endorsing a man who has had some indiscretions in his life. Now I may or may not have voted for and even supported him privately, but in my role as pastor, I just keep my mouth shut.

Here is why this is important, because ever since then, and really before that, Christianity and churches have been on the decline. People are becoming increasingly dechurched. Why? One of the reasons I have found is that they look at churches that preach and teach about morality and see their actions and really ask themselves, do these people really mean what they say?

My fear is that with the seemingly election of this same candidate, and churches again becoming embroiled in politics, that it might have the same effect as it has been having, even more so. Now, I may or may not actually vote for this candidate, but that is besides the point. My hope and desire is that churches can clearly preach and teach the Gospel to all people, regardless of where they stand on politics.

One last thing, and that I am not saying the people in the pew should not be involved in politics, but for the pastors and ministers within the church, we need to stick to teaching and applying the Bible (which will inevitably touch on things our culture deals with, such as gender and sexuality), but we stay out of politics.

Ok, sorry. Sermon over. But I would love to know your thoughts.

Preach the truth . My pastor in my youth who used to own a boot store in Louisville,MS was tough but fair. He ran members off because he preached the hard truths. He told me one time that I don’t try to run members but it’s my duty to preach the truth. I love that man because of his honesty even though it might hurt some feelings. I rather hear the hard truth than a lie to make me feel better.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

It's a good thing Christian's aren't charged with judging people isn't it?

 

[TNDawg1]

That’s a ridiculous statement.

No it’s not. I’m clearly seeing friends who left Christianity years ago trying to say Trump was the final straw. No he wasn’t.

 

[Villagedawg]

Well... it was Jesus's main message. Old Testament God didn't shy away from his people being diсks or talking sнit.

In fact, David's first words to Goliath were comments about his penis:

“For who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?”
1 Samuel 17:26

If there is anything you can say about the Bible is it is consistent in its portrayal of God.* It's almost as if he changes depending on the author's purpose. From age to age still the same to butcher Amy Grant.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

No it’s not. I’m clearly seeing friends who left Christianity years ago trying to say Trump was the final straw. No it wasn’t.

Anyone saying Trump is the reason they left Christianity is hiding other reasons. Thats a crutch.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Any pastor pushes a political ideology should immediately lose 501c3

Any non profit with paid staff that takes in over a certain amount of money (we can figure that out), should lose tax exempt status.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

If there is anything you can say about the Bible is it is consistent in its portrayal of God.* It's almost as if he changes depending on the author's purpose. From age to age still the same to butcher Amy Grant.

There’s a clear demarcation between Old Testament (law) and New Testament (grace).

 

[johnson86-1]

I'd probably say those and other things (gonna pick on travel ball again) are becoming religions. I have a theory that everyone has a religion, one way or another.

Calling that a theory is possibly selling it short. Hell, lots of atheists are somehow evangelical atheists.

I used to think environmentalism was a terrible replacement for traditional religions until more people started making their political party their religion.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I don’t think The Creator would support the killing of the unborn, transgender mutilation of children, or the promotion of any of this VVVV.

 

[patdog]

It depends on whether he is weighing in on politics or just weighing in on issues that are in politics. If you are in a Catholic church or mainstream protestant church, your pastor/priest most likely should be touching on abortion based on the doctrine of his church and if he avoids it because the church's teaching may be unpopular, that's probably not a great church to be in. I think they shouldn't convert that into a recommendation on a particular vote unless it's on an actual issue, like in a proposition for a constitutional amendment or something. I think pastors/priests probably shouldn't weigh in on individual candidates. If it's a catholic church, it's probably fair for priests to point out that some politicians aren't good Catholics or aren't Catholic at all despite what they claim in the context of clarifying church doctrine, but even then I don't think it's proper to use that as an excuse to say members should vote against them.

There’s a difference between preaching on it as a religious/moral issue for the congregants to apply to their own lives & preaching on it as a political issue affecting other people’s lives. Jesus had nothing to say about the moral issues of the day as they related to politics. He had more important things to talk about.

 

[She Mate Me]

I don’t think The Creator would support the killing of the unborn, transgender mutilation of children, or the promotion of any of this VVVV.
View attachment 612894

Cue the in 5, 4, 3...................

 

[vhdawg]

It depends on whether he is weighing in on politics or just weighing in on issues that are in politics.

This is it right here. Your faith should inform your viewpoint on political issues (on all things, really, but we're talking politics specifically) and your viewpoint on those political issues should inform your voting decisions. I have no issue with a pastor giving perspective on what the Bible has to say about the issues of the day. I'd have a huge issue with a pastor saying that God wants you to vote for Candidate X.

And to the original topic our preacher friend started, teach the Bible....too many places just simply don't do it anymore, and it waters everything down. If you're teaching the Bible, and brother if you're going through Exodus, especially the later half with all the written out blueprints for a building made of all sorts of material and how all of it means something, then you're doing the right thing.

 

[HailStout]

I don’t think The Creator would support the killing of the unborn, transgender mutilation of children, or the promotion of any of this VVVV.
View attachment 612894

That should do it

 

[dorndawg]

I used to think environmentalism was a terrible replacement for traditional religions until more people started making their political party their religion.

And really, this is in many ways a derivative/continuation of paganism and pantheism.

As we Christians know from Ecclesiastes, there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Shocker to some I'm sure but both parties support things that are morally corrupt and not biblical. However nobody is perfect no ideology outside of the Word itself is perfect either. I know there will be people in heaven that on earth had multiple different political idealogies. I believe the church should teach and side with what the Bible teaches and not what a political party teaches. Because the Bible would find fault with all political parties.

 

[HailStout]

And really, this is in many ways a derivative/continuation of paganism and pantheism.

As we Christians know from Ecclesiastes, there is nothing new under the sun.

Ecclesiastes is by far my favorite book of the Bible

 

[dorndawg]

I don’t think The Creator would support the killing of the unborn, transgender mutilation of children, or the promotion of any of this VVVV.
View attachment 612894

I miss downvote so much

 

[johnson86-1]

And really, this is in many ways a derivative/continuation of paganism and pantheism.

As we Christians know from Ecclesiastes, there is nothing new under the sun.

I've seen enough of your political opinions to know that we disagree on political issues, so I'm pretty impressed by your ability to throw out Biblical references. Were you raised in a Christian family before you became a democrat?**

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

 

[vhdawg]

As we Christians know from Ecclesiastes, there is nothing new under the sun.

I'm almost through going through Ecclesiastes on the Vernon McGee podcast, reading along, and hoo boy that book is a real pick-me-up for the middle-aged**

 

[DerHntr]

Being strong in your political beliefs is similar to having a huge c*ck. I’m happy for you, but please stop wagging the dang thing in my face.

This is one of the reasons I enjoy SPS. We don’t want to see your c*cks. Everywhere else we go online or in person seems to have people walking around with it hanging out these days.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Being strong in your political beliefs is similar to having a huge c*ck. I’m happy for you, but please stop wagging the dang thing in my face.

This is one of the reasons I enjoy SPS. We don’t want to see your c*cks. Everywhere else we go online or in person seems to have people walking around with it hanging out these days.