OT: A pastor's rant

[LandArchDawg]

This post captures my thinking on what has happened since 2016:

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

for those without Facebook-
"It is sobering to think of the wreckage inside so many evangelical churches, institutions, and friendships in the past 8 years, and how much began with a Republican populist movement that promised Christians power and influence if they would just get on board (and cut off any other Christians who refused).
And now, the pretenses of that deal are nakedly visible, as the movement fully pivots toward a win-at-all-costs platform, decked out with porn stars, Hinduism, and “safe/legal/rare.”
For the GOP, it’s business as usual. For a lot of evangelicals, there are relationships they can’t get back, ministries they can’t reconcile with, and memories they cannot forget. All for absolutely nothing."

In other words, both parties are now thoroughly worldly. Several of the honest "Never Trump" folks warned of this, but the GOP plowed right ahead regardless.

This Twitter thread by Sarah Isgur lines up with my thinking as well, more from a secular political perspective:

 

[Darryl Steight]

Preacher, you've obviously asked a difficult but important question. I wouldn't pretend to be well-versed enough in Biblical teachings to try to give advice on the topic. And I'm not sure if this will answer the question you had, but as an added resource I thought this might be interesting for you.

At Pinelake, they just finished a sermon series a couple weeks ago called "Can We Talk About It?" It was I think 5 weeks of pastors talking about tough topics in Church, and how one might think about them by exploring what God says about each. I thought it was really good on all the topics, which included pornography and gender identity, among others, but the main one I thought you might be interested in was the first in the series: "Can we talk about the coming election?"

Here's a link to it, or you can go the church website and find it. Maybe just listening to another preacher discuss this very topic will stir some thoughts about how you want to approach it. Just my .02, good luck with it all - I know it's not an easy thing.

Can We Talk About the Coming Election?

 

[thatsbaseball]

This post captures my thinking on what has happened since 2016:

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

for those without Facebook-
"It is sobering to think of the wreckage inside so many evangelical churches, institutions, and friendships in the past 8 years, and how much began with a Republican populist movement that promised Christians power and influence if they would just get on board (and cut off any other Christians who refused).
And now, the pretenses of that deal are nakedly visible, as the movement fully pivots toward a win-at-all-costs platform, decked out with porn stars, Hinduism, and “safe/legal/rare.”
For the GOP, it’s business as usual. For a lot of evangelicals, there are relationships they can’t get back, ministries they can’t reconcile with, and memories they cannot forget. All for absolutely nothing."

In other words, both parties are now thoroughly worldly. Several of the honest "Never Trump" folks warned of this, but the GOP plowed right ahead regardless.

This Twitter thread by Sarah Isgur lines up with my thinking as well, more from a secular political perspective:

Your post totally ignores Christians' disgust with the Democratic party and it's policies.

 

[LOTRGOTDAWGFAN]

So you are now agnostic, atheist, none of the above ?

why?

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Our pastor prayed for Trump last Sunday after what happened with the shooting but we also prayed for Biden, all of our political leaders and our country. That maybe the only time I’ve ever heard him mention anything even remotely political.

And he preaches the WORD. Teaches you a lesson and usually gives you a gut punch every Sunday. No feel good stuff going on there.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Your post totally ignores Christians' disgust with the Democratic party and its policies.

But is it really disgust with Democratic Party policies or the fact that the Democrats are seen as being more attractive by many people such as those folks who were driven away from churches by ignorant churchgoers which scares Christian conservatives?

By no means am I a Democrat (I vote Republican much more often) but seeing ignorant churchgoers (look at @jethreauxdawg ’s recent post here in this thread describing an example) support a POS to be POTUS (you can’t spell POTUS without POS— nothing personal @POTUS ) makes me question their cognitive abilities— again.

I see this upcoming election and think…

#inb4dalock

 

[85Bears]

stop it.

Stop what ? Following the Bible ? Not a chance

 

[Anon1704414204]

Like most all things moderation is key. If a Religious Leader sees government making unnecessary decisions that harm the poor he's obligated to call it out. Most all other political issues need to be left out of a sermon.

Isaiah 10:1-2 Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing | New International Version (NIV) |

Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing

www.bible.com

 

[HailStout]

My religion is basically this:

Don’t be a dick

if everyone converted this world would be amazing

 

[thatsbaseball]

I'm not sure how to answer other than I certainly recognize that "churchgoers" tend to be more conservative and Republican and non "churchgoers" tend to be more liberal and Democrat.

sorry, replying to Maroon Eagle

 

[Boom Boom]

Your post totally ignores Christians' disgust with the Democratic party and it's policies.

Anyone who thinks that way is completely lacking in humility. The Bible has some things to say about that.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I'm not sure how to answer other than I certainly recognize that "churchgoers" tend to be more conservative and Republican and non "churchgoers" tend to be more liberal and Democrat.

What do you think is a consequence of ignorant churchgoers driving away people who had been attending from churches?

 

[bulldognation]

Resist the urge to reduce your congregation into a voter bloc.

Preach the Word. Practice grace and forgiveness. And above all, humble yourself before an Almighty God who will judge according to His will.

 

[Anon1704414204]

My religion is basically this:

Don’t be a dick

if everyone converted this world would be amazing

Which is God's Main Message. He engrained it into our DNA long before religion came about. Think about cavemen helping take care of those unable to help out with hunting or gathering due to age, injury or sickness. We've had choices from Day One.

 

[dorndawg]

Your post totally ignores Christians' disgust with the Democratic party and it's policies.

Well I'll be dog, I didn't know we had an emissary from the Big Man himself right here on Sixpackspeak, speaking on behalf of all Christians.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

Not political, but the next thing to it around here. My wife and I attended Church and Sunday School here for over 30 years at the same Church. Our Sunday School class was a mix of Bulldogs and Rebels with one Bama couple thrown in the mix. One Sunday morning before the lesson started the rebels got on a roll making classless remarks about State and State people. This was when Hugh Freeze was their coach and they would stand in the hall and laugh about him buying players, his girlfriend, and the hookers for players, etc, and then take the high road in class if you know what I mean. Anyway, they were bashing all things Bulldog that morning and we just sat there and never said a word out of respect for where we were. I know my wife was worried because she kept cutting her eyes at me and you could see she was thinking, please don’t do it. Thinking I was about to come across the table after a couple of them. Anyway, when class was over we didn’t even stay for church. We walked out after 30 plus years and never went back. That’s been close to 10 years ago and we haven’t been in a church since except to go to a couple of funerals. No lectures please, we were frankly already pretty disgusted with the whole thing. Smiling faces show no traces of the evil that lurks within. Like I said it’s not politics but around here college sports and politics both trigger big reactions and shouldn’t be part of church in any form or fashion.

 

[thatsbaseball]

What do you think is a consequence of ignorant churchgoers driving away people who had been attending from churches?

Well this has been going on for centuries thus the existence of many different denominations today. As far a someone leaving a church and becoming a non-Christian because of his/her fellow churchgoers I'm going to say he/she was attending the church for the wrong reason in the first place.

 

[dorndawg]

Yep. Going through Exodus right now. I am leaning at preaching through Romans next.

Our Sr Pastor doesn't necessarily give sermons through a whole book (think he did Job one time), but usually does a study that will go through a whole book like that, line by line, and provide context to other books and the age/audience it was written for.

Good on you for tackling Romans - that's a tough one, basically Paul's doctoral dissertation!

 

[The Cooterpoot]

My religion is basically this:

Don’t be a dick

if everyone converted this world would be amazing

I don't know, Va gina has caused way more problems than dicks.

 

[TNDawg1]

This is going to be lengthy…..


My pastor ( Nashville TN ) steers very clear from politics and ours is a vibrant, theologically conservative SBC Church. It’s become somewhat of a lifeboat for conservatives reconsolidating from churches that are slowly embracing, for lack of a better description, “woke” ideology.

As an interesting side note, before Covid-19 we had a prominent evangelical leader ( semi-regular contributor on shows like Face The Nation ) become very active in our church, teaching adult SS, etc. During Covid we weren’t meeting for a while and having online services. On social media there were a number of people I’ve gotten to know over the years ( in this church ) who became very liberal in just about everything they expressed.

My family and close friends within the church legitimately couldn’t tell where the pastor and elders came down in terms of the political divide. He was, and continues to be, very sensitive over the summer of 2020 racial issues. We have a multiracial church although it is predominantly white. At one point during that summer we were set to become like a sister church to a Nashville church that, frankly, was becoming a beacon of racial emphasis. That partnership died on the vine and that church became more and more politically outspoken to this day.

Coming back from Covid the outspoken liberals were gone from our fellowship. I found out many of them went to an Anglican congregation that’s home to a lot of indie folk/ alt. country celebrities. Very LGBTQ+ affirming which was not a surprise from a lot of the social media grandstanding.

Whats interesting to me is that I found out a lot of conservatives had been pushing our pastor to be more outspoken on culture war issues ( he didn’t ) and these deconstructionists had been pushing him in the opposite direction, to become egalitarian and LGBTQ+ welcoming, if not affirming. He was getting pressure from both ends of the spectrum. At the end of the day he has been the same and the liberals just, um… ”left the country.”

Another funny thing or set of funny things. The prominent evangelical leader ( Russell Moore ) left on his own and almost at the same exact time Candace Owens was with us, for about 6 months. People joked that we’d traded up lol. She’s moved on to more catholic pastures. Another guy who sells razors and him/her chocolate bars is a regular now. My brother has known him for about 20 years before he became a media figure so it’s weird to chit chat with that guy most every week.

This summer our pastor set up a series of Sunday evening town hall type gatherings where we could talk about being faithful to the Gospel and navigating the culture wars. About 100 of 1,300 regular attendees showed up for the sessions. To summarize, people are steadfast and weary at the same time. More families than not dealing with a child or grandkid wanting to be addressed by different pronouns. This is what our pastor ventured as a guess. We prayed for him and one another. It was a great time of fellowship and encouragement.

 

[dorndawg]

This post captures my thinking on what has happened since 2016:

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

for those without Facebook-
"It is sobering to think of the wreckage inside so many evangelical churches, institutions, and friendships in the past 8 years, and how much began with a Republican populist movement that promised Christians power and influence if they would just get on board (and cut off any other Christians who refused).
And now, the pretenses of that deal are nakedly visible, as the movement fully pivots toward a win-at-all-costs platform, decked out with porn stars, Hinduism, and “safe/legal/rare.”
For the GOP, it’s business as usual. For a lot of evangelicals, there are relationships they can’t get back, ministries they can’t reconcile with, and memories they cannot forget. All for absolutely nothing."

In other words, both parties are now thoroughly worldly. Several of the honest "Never Trump" folks warned of this, but the GOP plowed right ahead regardless.

This Twitter thread by Sarah Isgur lines up with my thinking as well, more from a secular political perspective:

that was a solid twitter thread, thx for sharing

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Well this has been going on for centuries thus the existence of many different denominations today. As far a someone leaving a church and becoming a non-Christian because of his/her fellow churchgoers I'm going to say he/she was attending the church for the wrong reason in the first place.

You just made a blanket decision about folks on the spectrum such as myself who are much more logical and really struggle when it comes to comprehending the concept of faith.

Ignorant churchgoers often told me that I can’t be logical and had to have faith and also disregarded my questions which stemmed from logic.

And folks wonder why I don’t consider myself welcome in churches.

 

[Villagedawg]

I applaud your approach - I'm very much an advocate of separation of church and state. Obviously, they can nor should never be completely separated.

You talk about church, which has seen a long decline. I certainly wouldn't want to tell you all about your job, but I'm not sure 2016 was the catalyst. The pandemic certainly accelerated it.

View attachment 612766

My sense is we are in the early stages where Americans really are losing touch and faith in institutions as a whole; one only needs to read this messageboard to see people's lack of attachment to organized religion (travel ball on Sunday is far from the only culprit, but good Lord doing kid's sports on Sunday strikes me as awful), schools, universities (ha), government (HAHA), civic groups, and even recreational things like bowling leagues and Elk's Lodges. We trust each other less and less, and seemingly don't want to be around others as much. And certainly not in any kind of hierarchical setting.

​

Fox News, MAGA, MSNBC, ANTIFA, etc. are are also replacing religion. The stupidity and inhumanity that people now display over literal political opinions is approaching the stupidity and inhumanity that has historically been the area of religion. Politics is becoming peoples' opium of choice.

 

[dorndawg]

Fox News, MAGA, MSNBC, ANTIFA, etc. are are also replacing religion. The stupidity and inhumanity that people now display over literal political opinions is approaching the stupidity and inhumanity that has historically been the area of religion. Politics is becoming peoples' opium of choice.

I'd probably say those and other things (gonna pick on travel ball again) are becoming religions. I have a theory that everyone has a religion, one way or another.

 

[40mikemike]

Preach the Word. It does it’s own work.

 

[Villagedawg]

Following the Bible ? Not a chance

Honest question. What part or parts? What does it say about transgender surgeries and abortion for example?

 

[TNDawg1]

This post captures my thinking on what has happened since 2016:

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

for those without Facebook-
"It is sobering to think of the wreckage inside so many evangelical churches, institutions, and friendships in the past 8 years, and how much began with a Republican populist movement that promised Christians power and influence if they would just get on board (and cut off any other Christians who refused).
And now, the pretenses of that deal are nakedly visible, as the movement fully pivots toward a win-at-all-costs platform, decked out with porn stars, Hinduism, and “safe/legal/rare.”
For the GOP, it’s business as usual. For a lot of evangelicals, there are relationships they can’t get back, ministries they can’t reconcile with, and memories they cannot forget. All for absolutely nothing."

In other words, both parties are now thoroughly worldly. Several of the honest "Never Trump" folks warned of this, but the GOP plowed right ahead regardless.

This Twitter thread by Sarah Isgur lines up with my thinking as well, more from a secular political perspective:

In my experience the “Christians” who have fled from Trumpism had already been embracing a type of deism thats hardly in keeping with the biblical precepts. The ones I know were already on board with third wave feminism, pride, rejecting the blood atonement, etc. In other words, main line liberals

 

[The Cooterpoot]

I think many are confusing religion with faith. Church attendance isn't a requirement of faith, nor is it required for salvation.
Religion has killed churches, not faith.

 

[dorndawg]

In my experience the “Christians” who have fled from Trumpism

Found one.

 

[peewee.sixpack]

Preacher,
Tony Evans has a great sermon series labeled Kingdom Voting. I think it is a 10 part series. Absolutely Christians should be involved in politics and the Church should not be endorsing a political party. We should be holding leaders accountable for their actions. This is exactly how we have fallen so far in society and have fallen to the world view.

 

[biodawg]

Ok, so I have been thinking about this for a while and this is the best place to do it as this forum has the widest range of people that I know. What's the rant about? Church and politics.

So, there are two things that I am passionate about apart from Jesus, my family, and my ministry, and that is Mississippi State and politics, but in my role as a pastor, I stay away from politics. Being in the north, I feel a little bit of freedom to talk about State as I thinks it makes me more approachable, but nobody in my congregation knows who plan on voting for, even though as I apply the text of Scripture that I am preaching on to society, they can probably figure that out, but I am intentionally vague about the candidate that I support and who I intend to vote for.

Which brings me to my rant. I was so sick of churches getting involved in politics in 2016, endorsing a man who has had some indiscretions in his life. Now I may or may not have voted for and even supported him privately, but in my role as pastor, I just keep my mouth shut.

Here is why this is important, because ever since then, and really before that, Christianity and churches have been on the decline. People are becoming increasingly dechurched. Why? One of the reasons I have found is that they look at churches that preach and teach about morality and see their actions and really ask themselves, do these people really mean what they say?

My fear is that with the seemingly election of this same candidate, and churches again becoming embroiled in politics, that it might have the same effect as it has been having, even more so. Now, I may or may not actually vote for this candidate, but that is besides the point. My hope and desire is that churches can clearly preach and teach the Gospel to all people, regardless of where they stand on politics.

One last thing, and that I am not saying the people in the pew should not be involved in politics, but for the pastors and ministers within the church, we need to stick to teaching and applying the Bible (which will inevitably touch on things our culture deals with, such as gender and sexuality), but we stay out of politics.

Ok, sorry. Sermon over. But I would love to know your thoughts.

All you can do is preach what is true and ask your congregation to vote according to what the Bible would support.

My religion is basically this:

Don’t be a dick

if everyone converted this world would be amazing

well, Jesus basically said as much. He said the two most important commandments were love the Lord with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[GloryDawg]

You probably should stay quiet with your tax-free status.

 

[Dawgg]

I love the show Sunday Morning on CBS (even though I only get to watch the first half hour or so, so that we can get ready for church). If you've never watched the show, it's 90 minutes of human interest-type stories, movies/music/arts/sports, interviews with interesting people, etc. It's perfect for a Sunday morning - a relaxing break from getting bombarded with hard news all week.

Gonna agree here. CBS Sunday Morning is quality television and has been for decades.

 

[Dawgg]

Which is God's Main Message. He engrained it into our DNA long before religion came about. Think about cavemen helping take care of those unable to help out with hunting or gathering due to age, injury or sickness. We've had choices from Day One.

Well... it was Jesus's main message. Old Testament God didn't shy away from his people being diсks or talking sнit.

In fact, David's first words to Goliath were comments about his penis:

“For who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?”
1 Samuel 17:26

 

[turkish]

Preach the Word. It does it’s own work.

This. Pray for all our leaders. No president is going to save this country.

 

[maroonmadman]

I am a firm believer in separation of church and state. I fear that the evangelical far right is trying to turn this country into a Christian theocracy which would simply turn us into a Christian version of what we see in the middle east. A quick Google search reveals 150+ Christian churches here in Madison Co. MS, everything from Adventist to Zionist. Whose version of Christianity is going to be the one that calls the shots? We'll wind up just like the Sunni vs Shi'ite thing that has been going on for hundreds of years. Be careful what you wish for folks.

I don't need preachers/priest to tell me how to vote, I sure as hell don't need politicians to tell me how to practice my religious beliefs. They should both stay in their own lanes.

Romans Ch. 12 are some of the most powerful words written in the Bible and for me, the essence of what being a good Christian, and generally a decent human being, is all about. Especially verses 16 - 21.

 

[HailStout]

I don't know, Va gina has caused way more problems than dicks.

You aren’t wrong

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I'd probably say those and other things (gonna pick on travel ball again) are becoming religions. I have a theory that everyone has a religion, one way or another.

Idols.

 

[HailStout]

In my experience the “Christians” who have fled from Trumpism had already been embracing a type of deism thats hardly in keeping with the biblical precepts. The ones I know were already on board with third wave feminism, pride, rejecting the blood atonement, etc. In other words, main line liberals

Wow….just wow. So to be clear, if someone doesn’t agree with what Trump says they aren’t following the Bible? And using the quotation marks around Christian’s is a nice touch.

 

[HailStout]

Well... it was Jesus's main message. Old Testament God didn't shy away from his people being diсks or talking sнit.

In fact, David's first words to Goliath were comments about his penis:

“For who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?”
1 Samuel 17:26

David surrounded by his Israeli friends after he said that: