What would happen if you were visiting my house, and I handed you a pistol and told you it wasn't loaded. And you dry fired it and struck and killed my daughter. Would there be liability in this case on your part ?
OT: Alec Baldwin is in trouble...
- Thread starter Bwifan
- Start date
Are you saying your home is the same environment as a movie set?
I’m not a lawyer, but those seem like two insanely different scenarios.
How is it different? A weapon that can kill someone is to be treated with caution. In both cases the handler incorrectly believed that the pistol was not loaded. This negligence led to an unnecessary death. Always self-check the breech, and don't point a weapon at anyone are the two basic tenants of firearm safety. IDK how the liability would be different. But we shall see. Sad case with almost all the blame on the armorer IMO, but courts can be unpredictable.
I'm still having a hard time wondering why a real firearm with real ammo would ever need to be on a movie set.
The only way to distinguish a live round from a blank is to physically examine it, looking for a projectile (bullet) or none. To do that, the actor would have to be handed the "cold" gun from the armorer and would then have to open the action, remove the cartridge, examine it and reload the gun. I seriously doubt ANY actor signs on to do that, to make those decisions and to examine that cartridge. That is simply not their job, not their responsibility.
Your "what if" has no bearing on this situation. It has many flaws on its own, but it wasn't in any way what took place with Baldwin.
That's the other part of the equation. With all the computer graphics and sound dubbing, why do they need to even fire blanks. IIRC , Brandon Lee died while filming The Crow due to a faulty blank round.
My SWAG….his defense team will bluster a bit…but…will aggressively seek a plea bargain. The risk of a jail term is simply too probable if they go to trial. If the family of the victim is agreeable…..plea bargain will get done with a significant fine …. probation timeframe with community service component . I believe there may have been a civil settlement with the family already.
Ms. Carmack-Altwies, the Santa-Fe NM D.A. said the investigation hasn't revealed how live rounds wound up on the set, and that the question likely won't be answered.
"I don't think it matters to the crux of the matter, which is that they got into a gun, and then the trigger was pulled in that gun while it was pointed at Halyna Hutchins," she said.
"I don't think it matters to the crux of the matter, which is that they got into a gun, and then the trigger was pulled in that gun while it was pointed at Halyna Hutchins," she said.
Well if they knew that, they probably would be charging a different person with a crime.
They do use real firearms on movie sets - they are never supposed to have live ammo on a set though -only blanks. Something strange was definately going on on this set - seems like a lot of issues and carelessness.
Expect Baldwin to use the misunderstanding defense.
”Your Honor, I’m sure it was all just a misunderstanding.”
”Your Honor, I’m sure it was all just a misunderstanding.”
I don't know Hollywood job lingo, so maybe not as Producer. But there is a person who is in charge of the operations of the set and I remember some TV legal expert stated that was Baldwin.
What I'm getting at, someone is is change of planning and staffing. If that was Baldwin, and it's true that it was a chaotic set with previous issues with firearms, he would have some exposure. If his armorer was not competent, it would be on him to replace her or find help for her.
That is my question as well. How do they not make prop guns? Why would it ever be the real thing. I don’t care who told me it was fine I would still open the damn thing and check the bullets.
My wife is an actor who has worked on quite a few big, Hollywood sets. This is the gist of her response too. Should there be safety reforms in the industry? Absolutely, but to expect an actor to assess all of these things when there is someone on the set whose job it is is absurd.
Now you can definitely argue that the poor "armorer" who was also an assistant prop master with lots happening at once was out of her depth. That's a safety regulation change issue. There should be more safeguards in place when weapons are used on set. I also have some questions about where they got the props and ammo, and any culpability on that side of things.
I think there's lots to argue in terms of criminal vs civil liability here.
From what I have read, heard, or watched is that they were actually loading a prop gun with live ammo and shooting target practice. Then Baldwin pointed the gun and shot it not knowing there was still one of their live rounds left in the weapon.
Has nothing to do with him being an actor or why live rounds where in the gun or not or who can tell the difference between a live round or not live round. It was one guy being dumb and doing something stupid because he wasn’t paying attention.
Has nothing to do with him being an actor or why live rounds where in the gun or not or who can tell the difference between a live round or not live round. It was one guy being dumb and doing something stupid because he wasn’t paying attention.
In the first place can your wife score me a couple of acting gigs? I would be perfect in the role of an incredibly good looking, fabulously wealthy older gentleman who always scores with the hot young women. We’ll bill it as a fantasy production.
I also wonder if part of Baldwin’s present problems (and no one deserves them more than him in my view) stem from the overwhelming presence of Social Media. Throughout the History of the movie industry there have been numerous accidents and a few deaths during production. Perhaps the industry was better able to control the news flow, mitigate Legal issues and hide the effects of dangerous instrumentalities due to careless behavior and unsafe practices from the public. I’m certain that your wife would have insight on that.
PS; Don’t forget to ask her about my potential acting gig.
Your last sentence, fair enough. It was an accident, but that doesn’t necessarily get Baldwin off the hook.
I believe that most of us have found ourselves in a position that we took to destructive lengths, due to ignorance, carelessness, arrogance, what have you. Sometimes you get away with these mistakes. Sometimes you don’t. Whether or not you get away with them is oftentimes completely out of your hands. Kill someone and likely you’ll find out exactly that.
I’m not saying he’s off the hook…I think it proves his guilt more.
I think the Asst. Director is the one directly over the armorer, and is in charge of set safety. ( Forgive me if I'm incorrect ). This AD has a history of problems. So why hire him in the first place, Producer Baldwin ? The AD has already plea bargained. Also in reading some Santa Fe papers, seems the locals don't take kindly to the Hollywood types. These things don't work in Baldwin's favor.
‘Rust’ Assistant Director Who Handed Alec Baldwin Gun Was Fired Before Over Gun Issue
Dave Halls told Alec Baldwin he had a “cold gun” while handing him the firearm on Thursday that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza.
www.forbes.com
At the range I always say in respectful way “please crack the action open” I don’t care if it’s a SxS, O/U or an autoloader I want the action open.
With that said, if someone has the action closed and points the gun at someone it’s a one month suspension from the club, do it twice and you’re permanently out.
Here’s my opinion on Baldwin. I believe it was an accident but there was clear negligence on his part. That accident caused someone to die and he has to serve time. Even though I can’t stand him as a person and basically disagree with everything he stands for I pray that he doesn’t serve time with hardened criminals. Yes, he should serve time but in a controlled environment. JMHO
With that said, if someone has the action closed and points the gun at someone it’s a one month suspension from the club, do it twice and you’re permanently out.
Here’s my opinion on Baldwin. I believe it was an accident but there was clear negligence on his part. That accident caused someone to die and he has to serve time. Even though I can’t stand him as a person and basically disagree with everything he stands for I pray that he doesn’t serve time with hardened criminals. Yes, he should serve time but in a controlled environment. JMHO
I watched a video of a lawyer who read the indictment and New Mexico law. Baldwin and the armorer are charged with Manslaughter in the 2nd Degree (Manslaughter 2). Manslaughter 2 can be established with simple negligence. Manslaughter 1 requires gross negligence. His opinion is that anyone handling a firearm should 1. Determine if it is loaded or not. 2. Never point the weapon in a dangerous direction. 3 Never put your finger on the trigger until you have aimed the gun at the target and are ready to shoot. Baldwin did none of the 3. This lawyer believes that violation of these common sense procedures is negligence.
In addition, there was nothing in the script to have Baldwin point the gun at this woman who was the camera person.
This lawyer believes the interview where Baldwin states he did not pull the trigger will be a problem for Baldwin.
In addition, there was nothing in the script to have Baldwin point the gun at this woman who was the camera person.
This lawyer believes the interview where Baldwin states he did not pull the trigger will be a problem for Baldwin.
Hmm, Baldwin pushed back/ended gun safety training early, and talked on phone with family during it. Cops saying he acted negligently both as a producer and an actor.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/JMSHXTMMVNMERI6JVNEX6JUOAA.jpg)
www.reuters.com
Baldwin charged for 'reckless acts' leading to 'Rust' shooting
The actor and the set armorer each charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter.
www.reuters.com
I thought it they were 'framing' the shot - so, getting different angles for the final shoot?
How is Baldwin saying he did not pull the trigger a problem? Was he under oath when he said it? Maybe he believes he didn't pull the trigger. Dude just accidentally killed someone - allow for some shock. At worst he does a few months. Tragic story but sadly accidental deaths are way too common on these sets.
The lawyers I've heard talking about this case say it will be extremely difficult to prove and overreach by the state. That said, if Baldwin knowingly cut corners on training/safety, that hurts.
After just serving on jury duty 1 thing I will say is never let it go trial or trust a jury. I was stunned at some of the things I heard in our jury deliberations.
Totally. It's really not a great system of justice; people have all kinds of agendas and prejudices and aren't trained in the law or how it works. I have only ever had jury duty once and it was a case over whether or not to compel a young adult to involuntary hospitalization/medical treatments. Some people were like, 'if we hurry we can be finished by lunch - I'll go with whatever the group wants to go with.'
Exactly... I had jury duty a few weeks ago. DUI and assaulting a police officer. 1 of the jurors said in deliberations "Can we hurry this up, I have a job and kids to get home to.... I will go with what everybody else chooses".... Our jury forewoman " he has suffered enough I don't want to punish him anymore even though the police bodycams show everything he did.... "
I do not know if they were framing shot. If they were framing then Baldwin should have made sure the pistol was NOT Loaded and he should have kept his finger off the trigger. Baldwin saying he did not pull the trigger goes to his Veracity and honesty. While he was not under oath the jurors may have seen it or the prosecutor could bring it up.
As for serving on juries, i have served on two. Both times I was elected as jury fon. Once the judge stated to the Jurors that they could elect anyone as forman, but if I were you I would select him (pointing at me). Another note some folks want CSI type evidence years after the crime and no CSI evidence was taken.
If he can get the venue changed to MI the sentence will be reduced to public service as hall monitor at the Big House. There are two legal systems and he will benefit from it. Not that I am cynical
That would be the assistant director and, already took a plea deal.
The role of an assistant director on a film includes tracking daily progress against the filming production schedule, arranging logistics, preparing daily call sheets, checking cast and crew, and maintaining order on the set. They also have to take care of the health and safety of the crew.
assistant director job responsibilities - Google Search
www.google.com
bingo, this case belongs in civil court, this should not be in criminal court.....By the way, I dislike Alec Baldwin very much.
It being reported that he cut the training session short and was not paying attention during it talking to his family, being on the jury it would be hard not thinking he was guilty.
With as much technology they have in movies these days wouldn't you think they could do it without blanks?
Being a gun owner and hunted all my life and had to go through hand gun training for my job, I'm not sure I could tell the difference in a real round and a blank. I have never seen a blank round.
With as much technology they have in movies these days wouldn't you think they could do it without blanks?
Being a gun owner and hunted all my life and had to go through hand gun training for my job, I'm not sure I could tell the difference in a real round and a blank. I have never seen a blank round.
I stumbled upon this interview of an actor that worked on a movie next to the Rust set. It's got a few interesting tidbits in it.
So….. he ‘would never point a gun at anyone’ and he says he ‘didn’t pull the trigger’.
Not sure he’s going to do well in front of a jury with those 2 statements when they are presented with a dead body and another staff member injured, (all while he allegedly lacked attention in safety training on set).
Get unlimited access today.