OT - China

[greenbean.sixpack]

I'm by no means any type of expert on anything, but I just don't see China making any type of move that will mobilize the west, other than of course blustering. Their economy is built on industry and the west buys much of China's exports. Additionally, China is a net importer of food, with much of it coming from the west. If they make a move on Taiwan, it would be a last gasp move as they'd be shut out by the west. All that money flowing from the US, Canada, Europe and Australia would come to a sudden stop. It would be short term *** pain for us (but likely good in the long run), but devastating for China.

China would still be able to buy oil from Iran, etc.

Russia did piss off the west, but their economy isn't built on selling to us, plus they aren't a net importer of food and some of Europe still depends on Russia for energy.

Thoughts?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Agreed.

The smart move for the Chinese is to slow play and think long term.

 

[thatsbaseball]

I would love to know how many politicians on both sides of the isle indirectly receive significant "contributions" from the Chinese.

 

[L4Dawg]

Taiwan is a nationalist ideological thing with China. When it comes to that kind of thing the "smart move" is often never considered. From stuff I have read their current leader sees it as his mission to take control of Taiwan. That is what he wants his legacy to be. Given his age I see them making their play for Taiwan, whatever it is going to be, in the next 5-10 years. Given what they did during COVID, don't be so sure they aren't ready to sacrifice their economy.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Heck no, Russia and China don't have crap going on. In China, they murder their kids and have wiped out a generation, crippling the economy. In Russia, they tried to do some stabilizing things, but decided to be dumbasses and send an entire generation into a useless war, further crippling their economy.

I keep thinking about that clown from Kentucky who had visions of Chinese/Russian soldiers dancing in the US streets. May happen one day 50 years from now, but pretty clear his vision, the way he meant it, was idiotic.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Taiwan is a nationalist ideological thing with China. When it comes to that kind of thing the "smart move" is often never considered. From stuff I have read their current leader sees it as his mission to take control of Taiwan. That is what he wants his legacy to be. Given his age I see them making their play for Taiwan, whatever it is going to be, in the next 5-10 years. Given what they did during COVID, don't be so sure they aren't ready to sacrifice their economy.

If this is the case, let's just hope there's someone high enough in the government to see what a mistake this would be and is able to pull off a coup. China has become a superpower almost overnight, make a move on Taiwan and they're back to the stone age just as fast.

 

[GloryDawg]

I would love to know how many politicians on both sides of the isle indirectly receive significant "contributions" from the Chinese.

I would venture to say 90% because they all have foundations that can take as much money as it can get and put their spouses as executors then pay them as much as they want out of the foundation.

 

[HRMSU]

Agreed.

The smart move for the Chinese is to slow play and think long term.

They don't have a long term if you look at their Demographics. Also, he's killed all of his smartest advisers that would be able to provide unfiltered feedback and guidance because he deemed them to be his biggest threat. Peter Zeihan is a fascinating Geopolitical Analyst to follow regarding China and many other things.

Unfortunately China's window is probably "now"....next 3-10 years. After the next 10 years they start to age out.

 

[HRMSU]

If this is the case, let's just hope there's someone high enough in the government to see what a mistake this would be and is able to pull off a coup. China has become a superpower almost overnight, make a move on Taiwan and they're back to the stone age just as fast.

Unfortunately he has executed everyone in the government with enough power to pull this off. He has more power than Mao.

 

[Boom Boom]

I'm by no means any type of expert on anything, but I just don't see China making any type of move that will mobilize the west, other than of course blustering. Their economy is built on industry and the west buys much of China's exports. Additionally, China is a net importer of food, with much of it coming from the west. If they make a move on Taiwan, it would be a last gasp move as they'd be shut out by the west. All that money flowing from the US, Canada, Europe and Australia would come to a sudden stop. It would be short term *** pain for us (but likely good in the long run), but devastating for China.

China would still be able to buy oil from Iran, etc.

Russia did piss off the west, but their economy isn't built on selling to us, plus they aren't a net importer of food and some of Europe still depends on Russia for energy.

Thoughts?

I don't think the people (person?) making the decision are the same one(s) that would be economically hurt by that decision.

They sure seem to be making a lot of military investment into that decision.

 

[Dawgbite]

China doesn’t care if a couple of million people starve, they’ll make more.

 

[57stratdawg]

China has very serious demographic issues. The US went from rural farmers with large families -> urban living population with fewer kids over the course of like 200 years. China started their modernization in the 1970’s. They have almost certainly made some mistakes in that transition which are going to be major, major issues later this century.

BTW below are China’s Family Size policies:

1 Child - 1970 to 2015
2 Kids - 2015 to 2021
3 Kids - May 2021 to July 2021
No Limit - 2021 to current

They see it too.

 

[mstateglfr]

I'm by no means any type of expert on anything, but I just don't see China making any type of move that will mobilize the west, other than of course blustering. Their economy is built on industry and the west buys much of China's exports. Additionally, China is a net importer of food, with much of it coming from the west. If they make a move on Taiwan, it would be a last gasp move as they'd be shut out by the west. All that money flowing from the US, Canada, Europe and Australia would come to a sudden stop. It would be short term *** pain for us (but likely good in the long run), but devastating for China.

China would still be able to buy oil from Iran, etc.

Russia did piss off the west, but their economy isn't built on selling to us, plus they aren't a net importer of food and some of Europe still depends on Russia for energy.

Thoughts?

Do you really believe that if they invade Taiwan, the US will cut off all trade? With all the economic influence politicians face, they will still flip the switch and walk away? Where would everything come from then? You call it short term asspain, but I dont think that even begins to accurately describe the world of hurt our economy would be in.

I could see a lot of products being made there and the 'made in china' economic laws then skirted in various legal ways to show the products come from elsewhere.

 

[mstateglfr]

I would venture to say 90% because they all have foundations that can take as much money as it can get and put their spouses as executors then pay them as much as they want out of the foundation.

90%? I can name a handful of politicians off the top of my head that I know dont have spouses as executors of a foundation, and thats without even looking up what all politican's spouses do for work.

China can just 'donate' by investing in a Representative's district. That gives jobs/growth/economic stability.

 

[theoriginalSALTYdog]

Do you really believe that if they invade Taiwan, the US will cut off all trade? With all the economic influence politicians face, they will still flip the switch and walk away? Where would everything come from then? You call it short term asspain, but I dont think that even begins to accurately describe the world of hurt our economy would be in.

I could see a lot of products being made there and the 'made in china' economic laws then skirted in various legal ways to show the products come from elsewhere.

Pains me to say it but you've hit the nail on the head here, MSG. We are co-dependent on the other. We're not going to cut off our nose in spit of our face, not with an election coming up next year. Ain't happening.

 

[GloryDawg]

90%? I can name a handful of politicians off the top of my head that I know dont have spouses as executors of a foundation, and thats without even looking up what all politican's spouses do for work.

China can just 'donate' by investing in a Representative's district. That gives jobs/growth/economic stability.

They put brothers, sisters, parents and children in charge of foundations. It doesn't even has to be in their name. It could be anyone associated with them. Just let the Chinese know about the 501c. That just one example. Doesn't even have to be a foundation. Mitch McConnell's wife's family business has gotten rich off the Chi Coms. They have put the right amount of money in the right pockets in the United States and around the world.

 

[Ranchdawg]

Taiwan is a nationalist ideological thing with China. When it comes to that kind of thing the "smart move" is often never considered. From stuff I have read their current leader sees it as his mission to take control of Taiwan. That is what he wants his legacy to be. Given his age I see them making their play for Taiwan, whatever it is going to be, in the next 5-10 years. Given what they did during COVID, don't be so sure they aren't ready to sacrifice their economy.

When conservatives left China for Formosa they took tons of historical items with them. I went to the National Palace Museum which is built in the side of a mountain. They told me that the stored items under the mountain would allow them to swap displayed items every day for a year. Some of the artifacts are over 5000 years old. I was in awe touring the museum. It has to be a coveted place for mainland China. Just think about one of the rooms about 3,000 Sq ft filled with Ching dynasty pottery, next room same size filled with Ming dynasty pottery, other rooms with art work others with artifacts over 3000 years old.

 

[Ddog]

That Chinese man is 100% evil and will test Biden in a major way before the next election. Let’s hope I am wrong.

 

[HRMSU]

Pains me to say it but you've hit the nail on the head here, MSG. We are co-dependent on the other. We're not going to cut off our nose in spit of our face, not with an election coming up next year. Ain't happening.

If you really want to get nervous about what could happen just do a little research on our power grid.

Guess where the transformers come from? Oh, green energy you say? Guess where the solar panels and the wind turbines are made? But electric? Guess who has or is in the process of securing the vast majority of lithium and rare mineral rights? Have you paid attention to what China is doing in Africa a continent rich in natural resources and minerals?

This is not even factoring in a terror attack against substations maybe by people coming across the boarder illegally? Have you noticed the uptick in Chinese migrants crossing? How long do you think we could make it if the grid went down? One estimate is we'd lose 90% of our population in a year! If Just 9 out of 55,000 substations go down it could cause a Nationwide blackout for 18 months!

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

Do you really believe that if they invade Taiwan, the US will cut off all trade? With all the economic influence politicians face, they will still flip the switch and walk away? Where would everything come from then? You call it short term asspain, but I dont think that even begins to accurately describe the world of hurt our economy would be in.

I could see a lot of products being made there and the 'made in china' economic laws then skirted in various legal ways to show the products come from elsewhere.

Walmart, Amazon, and all the smaller dollar stores like dollar general would be 17ed if all trade with China was stopped.

 

[HRMSU]

Do you really believe that if they invade Taiwan, the US will cut off all trade? With all the economic influence politicians face, they will still flip the switch and walk away? Where would everything come from then? You call it short term asspain, but I dont think that even begins to accurately describe the world of hurt our economy would be in.

I could see a lot of products being made there and the 'made in china' economic laws then skirted in various legal ways to show the products come from elsewhere.

I like where your heads at on this one MSG. Just follow the money or the power right?

This is probably a way deeper conversation but we are slowly moving away from globalization which benefited China greatly. We thought we could bring them into the norm by helping to build their economy and we were just wrong....both parties.

More recently you've seen the last two administrations start to unwind globalization. One of the main scenarios that allowed for global expansion of trade was the maritime protection of trade routes. Guess who provided that? Remember not too long ago when the oil tanker was hijacked by Iran. Guess how China gets most of their oil....message sent.

China is in turbo mode increasing their naval size and capabilities; they are a legitimate threat but they won't patrol the entire ocean for trade like we do/did. Regional trade with friendly countries is coming and it's coming fast.....maybe some good can come out of the hell that started in 2020.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Do you really believe that if they invade Taiwan, the US will cut off all trade? With all the economic influence politicians face, they will still flip the switch and walk away? Where would everything come from then? You call it short term asspain, but I dont think that even begins to accurately describe the world of hurt our economy would be in.

I could see a lot of products being made there and the 'made in china' economic laws then skirted in various legal ways to show the products come from elsewhere.

It would hard for us, but devastating for the ChiComs, we wouldn't cut off all trade, but a lot of it would be impacted. In the long run, moving those manufacturing sites to Mexico would be beneficial for both us and our neighbors to the south.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

If you really want to get nervous about what could happen just do a little research on our power grid.

Guess where the transformers come from? Oh, green energy you say? Guess where the solar panels and the wind turbines are made? But electric? Guess who has or is in the process of securing the vast majority of lithium and rare mineral rights? Have you paid attention to what China is doing in Africa a continent rich in natural resources and minerals?

This is not even factoring in a terror attack against substations maybe by people coming across the boarder illegally? Have you noticed the uptick in Chinese migrants crossing? How long do you think we could make it if the grid went down? One estimate is we'd lose 90% of our population in a year! If Just 9 out of 55,000 substations go down it could cause a Nationwide blackout for 18 months!

On one of Shawn Ryan's recent podcasts, his guest covers this.

The book "One Second After" should be required reading. I don't think the whole grid can be taken down that easily or EMP blasts can take out the entire country, but either will have a huge impact.

 

[AstroDog]

I would love to know how many politicians on both sides of the isle indirectly receive significant "contributions" from the Chinese.

Mostly on the left. With a California Congressman banging a Chinese spy, a California Senator having her personal driver known as a Chinese spy, then the President's son selling access to Chinese interests for millions. And the President himself taking a $5 mil cash payment from some other unnamed country. And the FBI not releasing texts and emails from Hunter's computer proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the President is compromised illegally. While I'm sure a few GOP congressmen may have taken some money, they're more than likely all RINOs.

 

[HRMSU]

On one of Shawn Ryan's recent podcasts, his guest covers this.

The book "One Second After" should be required reading. I don't think the whole grid can be taken down that easily or EMP blasts can take out the entire country, but either will have a huge impact.

Really like Shawn Ryan! Some of his takes are a little exaggerated but hard to argue with an ex Navy Seal & CIA operative. His #1 fear is the grid and the lack of attention any political party is giving to it in order to protect us all.

He had David Tice on not long ago talking about the Documentary he did called Grid Down Power Up. It's on my list to watch.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

On one of Shawn Ryan's recent podcasts, his guest covers this.

The book "One Second After" should be required reading. I don't think the whole grid can be taken down that easily or EMP blasts can take out the entire country, but either will have a huge impact.

Damnit man. "One Second After" was the working title for my book on post nut clarity.

 

[HRMSU]

It would hard for us, but devastating for the ChiComs, we wouldn't cut off all trade, but a lot of it would be impacted. In the long run, moving those manufacturing sites to Mexico would be beneficial for both us and our neighbors to the south.

It's happening which is good but also contributes to the speed at which the window begins to close for China and they know it.

Right now our economy needs their labor but that's changing quickly.....their economy is wrecked without our labor demand. Just another factor that makes the next 10 years very dangerous! If they are going to act they have to do it soon.

 

[Johnnie Come Lately]

Do you really believe that if they invade Taiwan, the US will cut off all trade? With all the economic influence politicians face, they will still flip the switch and walk away? Where would everything come from then? You call it short term asspain, but I dont think that even begins to accurately describe the world of hurt our economy would be in.

I could see a lot of products being made there and the 'made in china' economic laws then skirted in various legal ways to show the products come from elsewhere.

If they invade Taiwan, I think the United States and its allies are in direct conflict / war with China. This would not be a "Video Game" war like the two Gulf Wars. Its hard to picture what the global economy would look like if that happened. Do you really think we would continue to trade if we were at war? There is no historical precedent for a war between big economic powers in the globalized era.

 

[MrKotter]

Heck no, Russia and China don't have crap going on. In China, they murder their kids and have wiped out a generation, crippling the economy. In Russia, they tried to do some stabilizing things, but decided to be dumbasses and send an entire generation into a useless war, further crippling their economy.

I keep thinking about that clown from Kentucky who had visions of Chinese/Russian soldiers dancing in the US streets. May happen one day 50 years from now, but pretty clear his vision, the way he meant it, was idiotic.

They have troops in Canada and South America , police and police stations in the US, are buying up land next to US military bases, flying balloons over military bases and have more politicians (both sides) on their payroll than many want to admit. They have the US by the balls more than the US has them. Our military is promoting and recruiting the rainbow crew and theirs is promoting masculinity and strength. We regularly get our *** kicked in war games with our allies because they know we're going to do before we do. We are nowhere near as strong as we once were or should be.

 

[theoriginalSALTYdog]

If you really want to get nervous about what could happen just do a little research on our power grid.

Guess where the transformers come from? Oh, green energy you say? Guess where the solar panels and the wind turbines are made? But electric? Guess who has or is in the process of securing the vast majority of lithium and rare mineral rights? Have you paid attention to what China is doing in Africa a continent rich in natural resources and minerals?

This is not even factoring in a terror attack against substations maybe by people coming across the boarder illegally? Have you noticed the uptick in Chinese migrants crossing? How long do you think we could make it if the grid went down? One estimate is we'd lose 90% of our population in a year! If Just 9 out of 55,000 substations go down it could cause a Nationwide blackout for 18 months!

Oh yeah, scary **** no doubt and if that's not bad enough they have the ability to melt our whole electrical grid via an EMP.

 

[Curby]

Bidun family is in bed with China.

They own us in more ways than any of us can ever imagine.

 

[AstroDog]

Oh yeah, scary **** no doubt and if that's not bad enough they have the ability to melt our whole electrical grid via an EMP.

I thought most of the transformers in the U.S. came from Howard Industries in Laurel, MS. I've seen their trucks carrying loads all over the U.S. and coming back from Pittsburgh carrying loads of steel to the plant.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Unfortunately China's window is probably "now"....next 3-10 years. After the next 10 years they start to age out.

This is not meant to be a political statement, but I am more concerned that the pressure China might feel to make a move is not because of their own population aging out. I think they are considering whether or not to do something we aren't prepared for, and I would bet they will make that decision prior to Monday, November 4, 2024.

 

[ZombieKissinger]

I’m a verifiable expert on the subject. I was the first American of relevance to visit after all, not counting Edgar Snow and a few ping pongers.

 

[WrapItDog]

Doesn't affect me. I use paper plates.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

They have troops in Canada and South America , police and police stations in the US, are buying up land next to US military bases, flying balloons over military bases and have more politicians (both sides) on their payroll than many want to admit. They have the US by the balls more than the US has them. Our military is promoting and recruiting the rainbow crew and theirs is promoting masculinity and strength. We regularly get our *** kicked in war games with our allies because they know we're going to do before we do. We are nowhere near as strong as we once were or should be.

You are a lunatic. We don't get our åss kicked at war games. The only thing close is a simulation from a think tank a few years ago (2019.)

The Rand simulation in 2019 where "the US got it's áss handed to it" was about us allowing a first strike from China over Taiwan. We don't have the posture or political fortitude to take a first strike ourselves. So yes, if someone attacks you out of now lhere, you take losses. Even then, in that simulation, we destroy China after a few weeks. But it's at a tough cost. It made good headlines, but here is the reality of the most recent "simulation."

Time and time again, around 25 times, most simulations had the same result: a free and independent Taiwan, a costly victory for the U.S. Navy and Air Force, China humiliated, and a global economic disaster.

These "simulations" are also a joke. They take turns rolling dice on who's move is next. No shìt. They roll dice.

If you are talking about actual wargames, you must be discussing the widely trash reported and social media shared Royal and Dutch Marines beating the US Marines at 29 Palms a few years ago. Well, the Royal and Dutch Marines did "win", because they were attached to the 7th US Marines as an allied force fighting against another similar sized element of US Marines. It was also not a competition, but a training exercise where an attacking force battled an entrenched force. The "winning" team had twice as many US Marines as it did UK and Dutch Marines.

US Marines "Getting Beat"

They won that battle the same way they defeated Saddam Hussein.



You sir, are a 17ing coward. You spread stupidity, conspiracy, and overall un-american horseshìt everytime you tap the keyboard. If you want to talk shìt about the US military and their lack of masculinity, I might suggest taking your concerns to the Infantry Bar at Ft Benning and airing your grievances over a nice craft beer. Otherwise, shut the 17up and thank the good Lord better men and women than you let you live in a country free enough to be as stupid as you are.


Now if you have news on Chinese police stations in the US you'd like to share we are all ears.

 

[StumpNewGround]

Now if you have news on Chinese police stations in the US you'd like to share we are all ears.

There have been several stories regarding this exact thing in the US media in the past month.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Now if you have news on Chinese police stations in the US you'd like to share we are all ears.

There have been several stories regarding this exact thing in the US media in the past month.

Sorry, I was arguing semantics. "Police" makes it sound like they're here by invitation.

If it's on another country's soil without permission it's a spy agency. Whoever is calling them "police stations" in the US is bending over backwards to make it sound better than the flat out esponiage is it is.. They are spies not police. Lock em up.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I’m a verifiable expert on the subject. I was the first American of relevance to visit after all, not counting Edgar Snow and a few ping pongers.

Alabama had to take the Crimson Tide as a mascot since the Red Menace was already taken…

 

[MrKotter]

You are a lunatic. We don't get our åss kicked at war games. The only thing close is a simulation from a think tank a few years ago (2019.)

The Rand simulation in 2019 where "the US got it's áss handed to it" was about us allowing a first strike from China over Taiwan. We don't have the posture or political fortitude to take a first strike ourselves. So yes, if someone attacks you out of now lhere, you take losses. Even then, in that simulation, we destroy China after a few weeks. But it's at a tough cost. It made good headlines, but here is the reality of the most recent "simulation."

Time and time again, around 25 times, most simulations had the same result: a free and independent Taiwan, a costly victory for the U.S. Navy and Air Force, China humiliated, and a global economic disaster.

These "simulations" are also a joke. They take turns rolling dice on who's move is next. No shìt. They roll dice.

If you are talking about actual wargames, you must be discussing the widely trash reported and social media shared Royal and Dutch Marines beating the US Marines at 29 Palms a few years ago. Well, the Royal and Dutch Marines did "win", because they were attached to the 7th US Marines as an allied force fighting against another similar sized element of US Marines. It was also not a competition, but a training exercise where an attacking force battled an entrenched force. The "winning" team had twice as many US Marines as it did UK and Dutch Marines.

US Marines "Getting Beat"

They won that battle the same way they defeated Saddam Hussein.



You sir, are a 17ing coward. You spread stupidity, conspiracy, and overall un-american horseshìt everytime you tap the keyboard. If you want to talk shìt about the US military and their lack of masculinity, I might suggest taking your concerns to the Infantry Bar at Ft Benning and airing your grievances over a nice craft beer. Otherwise, shut the 17up and thank the good Lord better men and women than you let you live in a country free enough to be as stupid as you are.


Now if you have news on Chinese police stations in the US you'd like to share we are all ears.

You need more than one source for your info. Low IQ window lickers like you are why this country is in such **** shape. You are told a bunch of BS, don't bother verifying a word of it, and carry it on as fact. Every damn word I said is 100% truthful. Yours, as usual, is ignorantly toting propaganda horseshit. You're either extraordinarily naive or just 17ing stupid. I'm betting on the latter.

If the Chinese police stations do not exist why did Christopher Wray, he's the FBI director since I'm sure you have no clue, say publicly they were aware of them and monitoring them here and in Toronto?

Wanting to see foreign hands off our country is not un-American. Blindly following an administration with a track record of being bribed by foreign countries, however, is.

I assume you're in denial about china owning 350,000+ and growing acres of land next to US military bases? Or is it "un-American " to be against this?

Dude, you have no 17ing clue what you're talking about.....at all. To call someone "un-American" for being against china's influence here and expecting our military to be the best in the world is foolish. Expected from you though