Where would you start an elementary aged kid for their first rifle? Longer shots are necessary at times and need to be able to put in some practice time at the range without getting recoil shy.
OT: Fight About It
- Thread starter PooPopsBaldHead
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Ive had a 7mm-08 since I was 8, 20 years later I’m still shooting the same gun. Have never lost a deer. Only downside is ammunition for this caliber seems harder to find than that of something similar such as a 308. My dad in the past 5 years had also switched to 7mm-08 from his 30-06, lighter and easier to handle.
I’ve been hunting and killing them for 50 years. Seen a lot of deer killed and hunted a lot of wounded deer so these opinions are just personal.
1. 243 Win. Fun to shoot and accurate but I’ve seen too many deer walk away from them on marginal shots. Just not enough lead.
2. 25-06. Fast flat shooter. Bigger bullet than 243 but still on the small side for me.
3. 6.5 Creedmore. Too new for me. No experience with it whatsoever beyond what I’ve read.
4. 7mm-08. My choice of what’s listed. Comparable ballistics out to 300 yards to a 270 Win. Fairly wide range of bullets especially if you reload and readily available commercially.
5. 270 Win is my caliber of choice for deer and is able to step up to mule deer and even elk if need be. Ammo is readily available. It’s a little longer legged than the 7-08 if hunting wide open country. Doesn’t kick as bad as a 30-06 and is flatter shooting than a 308 win. The only negative I have with it is that I prefer a short action over a long action in a bolt gun
1. 243 Win. Fun to shoot and accurate but I’ve seen too many deer walk away from them on marginal shots. Just not enough lead.
2. 25-06. Fast flat shooter. Bigger bullet than 243 but still on the small side for me.
3. 6.5 Creedmore. Too new for me. No experience with it whatsoever beyond what I’ve read.
4. 7mm-08. My choice of what’s listed. Comparable ballistics out to 300 yards to a 270 Win. Fairly wide range of bullets especially if you reload and readily available commercially.
5. 270 Win is my caliber of choice for deer and is able to step up to mule deer and even elk if need be. Ammo is readily available. It’s a little longer legged than the 7-08 if hunting wide open country. Doesn’t kick as bad as a 30-06 and is flatter shooting than a 308 win. The only negative I have with it is that I prefer a short action over a long action in a bolt gun
Agree with this. Many folks in your situation pick between this the 6.5, but there's a reason they it "cripplemore."
You may be surprised at how well young kids can handle a .270 or 30.06. For my daughter's first deer (she was 12ish, probably less than 75 lbs), she hunted with AR-15, well when it came time to shoot it jammed (performing SPORTS - IYKYK - in the dark is not easy), so I handed her my trusty Remington Model 742 30.06 (she had never shot anything more than .243) she took the deer down no problem. Never complained about recoil, I immediately moved her up to a .270 and she's never looked back.
We have had great success with an old Remington model 7 in 243. Both sons started out with it and now both grandkids have started out with it. Shots were originally limited to 100 yards maximum. Granddaughter is now 12 and she has just graduated to a 6.5PRC with a 200 yard maximum range. When the boys were growing up they both graduated to a 270 when they were about 12 or 13. My grandson, now 8, killed his first deer with it about a month ago. That little 243 is responsible for well over 60 deer and they normally dont run far. 100 grain factory ammo has worked very well. I realize that out west longer range shooting is the norm but even with a lot of practice they weren’t ready for anything longer than 100 until they were about 11. Same with the granddaughter. I let her take a shot last year at age 11 at 205 yards at a very nice buck. She killed him with a well placed shot but she is extremely athletic and probably significantly stronger than most girls her age. I would start out with a 243 or possibly a 6.5 Creedmore and then let them graduate when they prove that they can handle something a little larger. Flinching is an issue with many adults whether they admit it or not and too much gun can create some habits that are hard to break for kids. I think it all depends on the individual. Also the actual act of shooting a deer needs to be something that you carefully consider letting happen, especially with girls. If they aren’t mature enough shooting one when there is a lot of flopping and possibly a follow up finisher shot required could have a very bad effect on them. That stuff never bothered the boys but I think you need to proceed a little differently with most girls. With my granddaughter we took her for a couple of years and it was just a spectator sport with snacks and a game boy. We finally decided to shoot one in front of her and see how she reacted. She had some very serious adult type questions and we tried to carefully explain everything to her satisfaction. Then we took her by the meat processor and showed her where the steaks and sausage came from. Again closely watching her reaction to everything before deciding whether she was ready for the next step. 8 seems to a good age for first deer so we let her shoot a doe at that age and that went well. Now at 12 she has killed 10 deer including a couple of very nice bucks and she is well on her way to becoming the next Eva Shockey, but we were very careful and measured in her progression as a hunter. Of course we still sit with her and would not dream of turning her loose by herself for probably at least 2 more years even though she is more responsible than some adults that I know. Again, not a decision to be taken lightly. Once they are ready to graduate at somewhere around 12 or 13 and knowing that you are in the more open western habitat I would really look at a 6.5PRC for deer and pronghorn. We have taken several large mule deer with the 6.5PRC and it works extremely well, especially at longer ranges, but while it is great for deer sized game I think it’s a bit light for elk unless you keep the range under 300 yards, use a bonded bullet, and turn down all marginal shot angles. Of course the 6.5PRC and the 270 are very similar and either one is a fine choice but the 6.5 is a bit better at longer ranges with the long bullets and fast twist barrels. My final suggestion, no matter what caliber you select is a rifle with a muzzle brake to help with recoil and of course good hearing protection.
I think 500 yards on deer sized game for a youth (and most adults) is a recipe for near automatic disappointment. Chambering doesn’t really matter.
Consistent 1 MOA ability is needed for that distance and that is a lot rarer than the advertisements let on.
if you’re serious about this, I’ll bite. You need to be burning a lot of powder out of a 223 at the range. Then step them up to something bigger in the exact rifle/optics configuration. Also if you’re serious, what projectile do you want to run and at what velocity? Let that dictate the chambering.
7mm-08. I started with a Remington model 7 and my 8yr old son is now using it. He's killed 4 deer with it, and all have dropped in their tracks.
I've hunted with a 7mm-08 for my entire life. I can't recommend it enough
I've hunted with a 7mm-08 for my entire life. I can't recommend it enough
I have to fully agree with that.
I have a 7mm08, great caliber., plus others.
I would consider a 6.5 Creedmoor (260 Remington), considering all of the hoopla, and ammo that is out there now.
Nothing wrong all of these other calibers, Not sure about the 25.06, other than being a necked down 30.06, and is likely a barrel burner.
(I'd go to the others).
Shooting something further than 150 yards isn’t hunting. Fight me.
Using a scope at less than 300 yards is weak as 17. Fight me.
Standard bolt face Tikka. Buy a prefit from a notable source chartered in 22 Creedmoor. Shoot the crap out of it and size up in caliber as they grow.
My son shot his first deer with my dad's 30.06 at age 11. Remington 742. He was scared first time he shot it at a target, but after that first shot he saw nothing to be scared of and was balls to the wall.
6.5 Creedmoor is the answer here. The key word phrase is “time on the range”. Ammo is everywhere and it’s cheaper than most of the other options on your list. I’ve never lost a deer to a 6.5 Creedmoor. People who lose deer either can’t shoot, take poor shots, or give up too quick on a tracking job. That’s the facts.
Pick a good bullet like the 140 grain Sierra Game King or the 143 grain Hornady ELD-X and keep shots to reasonable distance. With elementary kids, shooting from field positions, keep it to a hundred yards or less. 99% of elementary kids don’t have any business shooting at a live animal over fifty yards unless they are shooting from a solid rest.
In the last five years, I’ve kept a hunting log recording the deer I’ve killed. In that time I’ve killed deer with eleven different cartridges. I haven’t lost a deer and I have not noticed any difference in the way the deer react to being shot. Ranges have been from 50 yards to 300 yards. Most of those deer have fallen in their tracks from a high shoulder shot. A few have made a dash for the thick stuff, but only one made it over 50 yards and it was shot with a 25-06 at 236 yards. That buck ran about a hundred yards with zero blood trail. Internal bleeding was insane. Best blood trails I have had came from a 6mm Creedmoor using the 103 grain ELD-X at 55 yards. Two different deer that left blood trails that Joe Biden could follow.
Get something that is easy to find ammo for and spend a bunch of time on the range. Any of the cartridges you mentioned will kill the absolute piss out of a deer if the shooter does his part. Recoil, ammo availability and finding the right rifle should take priority.
Pick a good bullet like the 140 grain Sierra Game King or the 143 grain Hornady ELD-X and keep shots to reasonable distance. With elementary kids, shooting from field positions, keep it to a hundred yards or less. 99% of elementary kids don’t have any business shooting at a live animal over fifty yards unless they are shooting from a solid rest.
In the last five years, I’ve kept a hunting log recording the deer I’ve killed. In that time I’ve killed deer with eleven different cartridges. I haven’t lost a deer and I have not noticed any difference in the way the deer react to being shot. Ranges have been from 50 yards to 300 yards. Most of those deer have fallen in their tracks from a high shoulder shot. A few have made a dash for the thick stuff, but only one made it over 50 yards and it was shot with a 25-06 at 236 yards. That buck ran about a hundred yards with zero blood trail. Internal bleeding was insane. Best blood trails I have had came from a 6mm Creedmoor using the 103 grain ELD-X at 55 yards. Two different deer that left blood trails that Joe Biden could follow.
Get something that is easy to find ammo for and spend a bunch of time on the range. Any of the cartridges you mentioned will kill the absolute piss out of a deer if the shooter does his part. Recoil, ammo availability and finding the right rifle should take priority.
As big a deer problem we have it’s hunting. I don’t care.
“Real hunting” should be with a spear.
I agree. Range proficiency should dictate max distance in the field. Same as it should for an adult. This was a general discussion I was having with a friend. He's getting his kid a 6.5 Creedmoor for Christmas. I'm leaning 7-08.
I assumed he was referring to the 7mm-08 in the OPs poll. That being said, a 7mm Remington Magnum is a magnum in name only. It’s only marginally more powerful than a 270 Winchester. The bolt throw is not ideal for a youth and neither is the weight of a Magnum sized receiver but the 7mm magnum is probably the most anemic caliber to ever carry the magnum moniker.
7-08 all the way. Factory 140 GR will do the job every time. If you reload and are keeping him under 350 yds then the Barnes 120 TTSX is a lightning strike on them with less recoil.
243 with a 95g SST. I like the "ballistic tip" bullets for deer as they really disrupt the heart and lungs with only a decent shot placement. I shot deer with all listed except the creed and never had any issue with any of them. I mostly carry a 243 or 260, but this year I've taken a 6x45 too. Curious as to how it'll do.
My pick for a youth is 243 and don't be scared to keep carrying it for life!
My pick for a youth is 243 and don't be scared to keep carrying it for life!
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7mm is one of the squireliest shooting guns I've ever had. Getting the ammo right and it consistently being accurate is a chore. I hate a 7mm mag. I'll sell you one lol.
I've lost more deer with a .270 than any gun.
Seems like the Creedmoor might be a pretty good option, but it's likely to quit on you after a few unproductive hunts.
My son (9) has killed deer with a .357 mag Marlin 1894, a tikka 6.5 Creedmoor, a sako .308, and just this year he killed his best buck with a Marlin 336 30-30 at 125yds. They will all get it done with a well placed shot.
I grew up shooting a .243 and killed a lot of deer with it. It’ll kill them, but most of the time they are going to run and not leave much of a blood trail. I got tired of the tracking jobs with little to follow so I stepped up to a BAR 30-06 in my early 20’s.
For larger kids, my suggestion would be a .308 or 30-30 depending on anticipated shot distance.
For younger kids, if shots are within 100 yds, that Marlin 1894 in .357 mag works well and there is absolutely 0 recoil.
I grew up shooting a .243 and killed a lot of deer with it. It’ll kill them, but most of the time they are going to run and not leave much of a blood trail. I got tired of the tracking jobs with little to follow so I stepped up to a BAR 30-06 in my early 20’s.
For larger kids, my suggestion would be a .308 or 30-30 depending on anticipated shot distance.
For younger kids, if shots are within 100 yds, that Marlin 1894 in .357 mag works well and there is absolutely 0 recoil.
I think a 270 Weatherby Magnum was the hardest kicking gun I ever owned. It was a Ruger #1 and it would kick the taste out of your mouth. Didn’t own it long.
Lol. You're thinking 7mm Mag. Ironically I shot my first buck with one. I was sitting in a box blind with my stepdad when I was about 13. I had an old 30-30 lever action. Well, we got in the stand and just like 13-year-olds do...I left my bullets in the truck. Small buck walks out, stepdad hands me his rifle, I pull the trigger, I got mule kicked to the backdoor of the stand. I'll never forget that hunt, and it isn't because of the deer.
I started out when I was a kid shooting a 6mm my dad had for years and then he gave me the .270 Weatherby for my 18th birthday. Yeah, it definitely took some getting used to but I really like it. Most of the time we hunt field edges and ditch lines so it’s very ideal. When I hunt in the thicker woods with a shorter range and there’s alot of brush I use a .45-70.
I have all of those and several other caliber as well, .260 .270, 30-06, 7mm mag, and even an old 8mm Mauser. I've probably killed at least 40 deer with each of them. Yes I am old and used to be in a camp that was half MS land and half LA land and required us to kill 8 does a year per membership. Out of all them, the 25-06 with a 90 grain bullet is the best killing bullet I have ever used. I have killed deer from 5 yards to 452 yards with it.
If the kid is just starting out, be sure to use ear plugs or muffs for ear protection. Also the loud sound will cause many, even adults, to develop a flinch. I used to work with special forces and went shooting with them a lot. The best thing they showed me for helping with eliminating flinch. Have someone "load" the gun without the shooter watching. The loader randomly puts a cartridge in the chamber or not. When they pull the trigger without a cartridge, They can see the flinch and this will eliminate it quickly.
If the kid is just starting out, be sure to use ear plugs or muffs for ear protection. Also the loud sound will cause many, even adults, to develop a flinch. I used to work with special forces and went shooting with them a lot. The best thing they showed me for helping with eliminating flinch. Have someone "load" the gun without the shooter watching. The loader randomly puts a cartridge in the chamber or not. When they pull the trigger without a cartridge, They can see the flinch and this will eliminate it quickly.
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You don't shoot a bee round without a muzzle brake or suppressor. The take magnum loading literally.
My factory brake makes my .300 WBY kick like a .308 or .270. Just got a new TI Pro 4 that supposedly reduces the recoil even more, but more importantly directs the muzzle blast away from my LOS which the annoying part of the factory brake.
Yep. The flinch trick works.
If you want to see if someone has good fundamentals, put them behind a precision air rifle. I thought I was a good rifle shooter until I started messing with air rifles with a friend who was competing about 10 years ago.
The pellet is moving around 900-1000fps and you have to have perfect follow through or the barrel moved before the pellet has exited. A high quality pellet rifle is an awesome training device imo. Only difference drawback is the lack of recoil, but the same can be said of practicing with.22 or .223. The advantage is you can shoot anywhere and subsonic requires even more precision with the mechanics of shooting.
I bought my kids a little cheap crossman last year and it's probably time to upgrade to something that will take them to the next level. Been reading up and Umarex Komplete is nitrogen canister powered rifle that is supposed to be nails for under $200.
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