OT: Fight About It
- Thread starter PooPopsBaldHead
- Start date
The real hard chargers know that the chambering stamped on the barrel doesn’t matter. Bullets and spent primers matter. Get em a 6.5 and let em fill a coffee can with spent primers, then sharpen your knives. But I’m just a lazy food plot hunter.
I did a quick 30 second google search and both Hornady and Buffalo ammo have this brass and ammo. Midway USA is your friend on stuff like this.
Yep. Ordered a Ruger American Gen II in 6.5 Creedmoor from Sheels earlier today. It's a budget rifle capable of shooting sub moa with factory ammo out of the box and has a removable stock piece to go from 13.75" to 12" LOP. I'm planning on using it myself for long range practice and if/when one of the kids is ready to shoot out a little further, it can be available to them with the shorter stock. Deciding factor is high quality ammo availability. I hope to set up for reloading down the road, but for now there is just way more factory precision ammunition availability for the 6.5 Creedmoor than the 7-08.
It will likely always be that way for the 7-08 and factory ammo. Hornady loads a 150 ELD-X that looks good on paper but that’s about the only one I’m aware of over 140 grains. Most of the high quality precision projectiles in the 7mm class are 180 grains and up. I think you made a great decision with your purchase.
If you do plan to reload, seems H4350 is the general power of choice. If you see some pick it up.
Also primers, depending,... that cartridge uses both large rifle and Small rifle, depending on the brass.
Those are the hardest things to find at this time.
So glad I picked up an extra thousand Fed 210's before they went insane.
Get a vid of that ball point pen harvest and I'll be a fan. Might even hit up your Patreon.
Actually Hornady, Winchester, and Buffalo Bore made ammo up until a few years ago. Ruger made the #1 in 405 and Winchester produced falling block 1885’s and lever action 1895’s in 405 until just a few years ago. It’s a fairly historic caliber. Its what Teddy Roosevelt took on his Africa safari because he wanted to use only American guns and cartridges. It was one of the first smokeless powder cartridges , it was never a black powder cartridge. It’s also very likely the caliber and gun he was carrying when he refused to shoot the now famous Teddy Bear while on his Mississippi bear hunt.
That should be an excellent choice for your situation. If you ever want to get started with reloading shoot me a message. I have been doing it for about 10 years now and I will be glad to help you get started. It’s one of those hobbies where you are constantly learning better ways to do things but the basics are not that hard. In recent years finding components has been a challenge but we should have about 3.5 years of more availability before people start hoarding again before the next election. Other than one elk, I haven’t shot any game with factory ammunition in several years. With a little time and practice you can be loading ammo that is definitely better than factory stuff.
Hopefully the prices come down but I doubt it. Currently I can buy 9mm by the case from SGammo for a quarter a round. If I had to start over now, the cost would be close to .35 ¢ a round. When I bought my supplies, the cost was .12¢ a round to load.
I don’t think primers will ever be 3 cents again. I am thinking that most people have a big stockpile that they have accumulated over the last 4 years so demand should not be as hot for awhile with the incoming administration. Also, if the current wars can possibly come to an end then raw materials and some completed components should be more plentiful. I paid the high prices over the last few years and put up a good supply of everything just so I could have piece of mind that I was covered no matter what. Headed to the woods. Y’all have a good afternoon.
slight change to question outside of caliber that hopefully gets some responses
I think it's most likely that I get 243 for my kids - although some consideration for necked up 223 rounds so that AR style could be option
How you value weight in rifle selection for children? 2 girls and their mentality, if a bigger cartridge (aka 30-06 - current deer rifle) kicks them, they'll be done for a while.
do you get a lighter rifle that they can manage more but kick more? Or heavier knowing you'll do more of the carrying and put in Bog Death Grip or something?
I think it's most likely that I get 243 for my kids - although some consideration for necked up 223 rounds so that AR style could be option
How you value weight in rifle selection for children? 2 girls and their mentality, if a bigger cartridge (aka 30-06 - current deer rifle) kicks them, they'll be done for a while.
do you get a lighter rifle that they can manage more but kick more? Or heavier knowing you'll do more of the carrying and put in Bog Death Grip or something?
I think you have to go lighter weight so they can handle it for accuracy purposes. Shooting heavy riles accurately from anywhere but a bench rest is hard for me as an adult. Recoil would best be managed by caliber, load, suppression, and proper support like you mentioned.
I'd throw 6.5 Grendel in the mix for what you are looking for as well. Pretty popular in the AR platforms. 243 is better for longer ranges, but inside 250, the Grendel is going to be plenty and more kid friendly IMO. I ruled it out for my kids as I wanted something they could use for longer distances once they get older and capable of hunting in the backcountry. If I didn't already have.223 for plinking around short range (under 300 yards) I'd probably get a Grendel as well... Because unlike a .223 you can actually confidently kill deer with it.
My situation is a little different in that if they are not ready to shoot something as simple as a 6.5 Creedmoor or 7-08 out past 300, they're just not ready to hunt yet. If we were still hunting whitetail out of a blind or shooting house, I'd have them in something like a 6.5 Grendel as early as 7-8 years old.
There are several recoil reducers available for hollow composite stocks and wood stocks. I’ve never put one in a rifle but I’ve put several in shotguns and they do make a difference. They also add a little weight to the butt and shift the CG back towards the shooter which is something I personally like.
I'm the same way. I only own 1 caliber I don't reload for and that's 9mm. I shoot 308 for deer etc. and found it easy to duplicate the Federal Gold Metal Match for accuracy out of a Remington 700 I modified a little (this is my long range gun). For deer I reload Hornady accubonds for a couple Winchester Model 70's. My kids started with an Ar 15 that I reloaded deer loads for. That .223 wasn't ideal, but they always made humane kills with a broadside double lung from within 100 yards. Powder is dang expensive now, but 45 acp doesn't use much and you can cast your bullets, which is fun. Teach kids how to shoot accurately, be selective with shots, and don't shoot too far.
Hornady doesn’t make the Accubond. That’s Nosler.
I wish that Hornady would come up with a bonded version of the ELDX. I load Accubonds for the 300wm and the ELDX for the 6.5PRC. I would love to just load Accubonds for everything but dang they are expensive. We do quit a bit of target shooting in the Summer and Accubonds at roughly $1.20 each gets expensive real quick. Those ELDX bullets are super accurate but pretty soft. They are ok for white tails but I wouldn’t want to use them for anything larger.
I wish Hornady still made the A-max. That was the best long range bullet out of my 300wm. I still use the V-max and SST in .243 but my 7-08 gets a steady diet of Barnes TTSX and LRX for hunting. For practice, Midway usually has deals on factory seconds.
To add a little to this response…
Anybody shooting guns that don’t really “fit” them will likely only make the felt recoil feel even worse. Anyone with young kids just getting started shooting should find the shortest length of pull they can find for them in a manageable chambering so their body can still be in a normal shooting position and not absorb the recoil in awkward positions. There are plenty of ways to achieve this but it would all depend on your budget. AR style or bolt actions in chassis are the easiest but not always the best for the budget. Good luck with your decisions and good on you both for passing along the love for the outdoors.
Have you tried the Swift Scirocco yet? There's not a lot of options for the .300 WBY. I bought mine during COVID and could only get my hands on a few things in 180 grain and I had read 300 wby really likes bonded bullets. The others (Interlock and core lokt were not consistent at all.) They appear to have quit making accubonds all together.
Was finally able to get my hands on the Weatherby factory Swift Scirocco ii's in 180's this summer and they are extremely accurate compared to anything else I have fired out of it. Only fired about half a box but got my last group at .85" at 100 yards. High BC and by all accounts a tier 1 bullet that is excellent for big game at long range. Not sure if it translates to 300 win mag, but it's a ballistic next door neighbor to the WBY, especially if you can handload.
And yes .. I don't have space today, or I would already be reloading. The 300 bee is expensive as 17 to shoot, hence the Creedmoor purchase.
I tried the Scirocco in 270 Win. It shot great but didn't give me the expansion in deer that I was looking for. I've been shooting Sierra Game King HP for years. Try other stuff but always end up back where I started.
factory precision ammo is only higher priced factory ammo. once you start reloading you'll understand. i've found that 25-06 and 7mm-08 are super finicky to load. you may have an off the shelf rifle that will shoot most anything very reasonably or not at all. once you have fired brass to reload and can use different primers, different powder brands at different charge weights you can find a sweet spot for them all. you can really make some super accurate rounds for a fraction of the cost with any weight projectile of any manufacturer you wish.
I do nt know about the fraction of the cost part. LOL, seems like I am constantly deciding that I need a new gauge or tool or component of some sort. If I only add up the bullet, powder, primer, and perhaps something for the brass, yes they are cheaper and better than factory, but when I throw in all of the other stuff that I convince myself that I must have to do this or that better, it would probably be cheaper to just buy an ammunition production company……… it is a great hobby though, especially if you are retired and have plenty of time to spend on it. Plus it adds a new element to the hunt knowing that you took a deer or elk or whatever with ammo that you developed and loaded. That’s kind of cool.
necked up 223 rounds are 6 & 7 TCU 6x45 (6mm-223) but you have to reload for the most part to have ammo. a 223 is adequate for deer if you stay within 75 yards and make a good shot and use proper bullet. i know of one person that took there daughter out with a 223 and bagged her first at 40 yards or so and he said it dropped in place with near perfect shot.
haha, i don't factor in cost of tools, just brass projectiles primer and powder. been doing it for 30+ years and don't even want to think of the $ i spent on presses and dies and such.
Fair point. What I am getting at is the bigger selection on the shelf, the more likely you are to find a round that your rifle likes. At both Cabela's and Scheels nearby there are 18-20 flavors of 6.5 Creedmoor vs 5-6 flavors of 7mm-08. I personally like the 7-08 a little better, but for longer range shooting and hunting, the bigger selection of ammo gives me more confidence of dialing everything in.
Interesting that even reloading is "finicky" with 7-08. Makes me feel even better about going 6.5C I have always wanted to get into reloading. I used to read Petersen's Magazine back in high school and geek out on all the reloading and ballistic information. Then I'd go to Walmart and buy some boring áss box of Winchester off the shelf that did everything I needed and more, since I never dreamed of shooting over 150 yards where I hunted.
yeah, if there is a large selection of ammo to choose from you would be able to find one that shoots good well.
once you start reloading you'll find that you shoot more and you will not be happy with anything that won't shoot under a 3/4" group
I tried the scirocco in my 300wm about 20-25 years ago. It was very accurate and I really wanted to like it but it didn't perform well. They may have changed the bullet design since then but both the deer I shot didn't pass through. Both deer died quickly but the bullets lost about 60-70 percent of there weight.
Interesting. That was the exact complaint on the original. They designed it in the 90's to be a long range bullet and when deer got shot up close it would explode. So they kept the design, but softened the jacket to make the 2 better at closer distances.
I just dug back up the links from when I looked into it last year. Interesting read
Handloader Magazine
This one is the one that convinced me to make it my primary bullet in my .300 wby. Trst was with 300 win mag. Best out the Accubond and Interbond in weight retention at 50 and 400 yards for bonded bullets. Lot of good bullets in this test and for long range I don't think any topped the Scirocco for the combination of high BC, weight retention, and penetration. No matter how you slice it, there are always tradeoffs though.
Rifle Shooter article comparing 8 bullets
That swift Aframe at 50 yards would stop a bull elephant. Whoa
Bullet, cross section, 400 yards ballistic gel, 50 yards ballistic gel
The ones I shot would definitely be the original design. The newer model would be worth a shot but until I have a bad performance from the Barnes bullets, I'm pretty much sold on them. Picked up 300 on sale a couple of years ago. I keep the distance I'll shoot inside the velocity/expansion window and haven't had a failure. I never tried the A-frame but shot a lot of partitions in the '80s.
I use the TTSX which is just the TSX with a polymer tip. The TTSX seems to me to be a little less finicky in my rifle. Just be sure of your velocity for the expansion window on the TSX your using. Remember that with monolithic bullets you need to drop down in bullet weight one size from what you would normally use in that caliber. I use a 120gr TTSX in my 7-08 and the expansion window is 500yds but wind messes with it beyond 350yds. If I want to go longer, I'll switch to the 139gr LRX.
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I’ve been trying to decide on what bullet to use in Africa in 2027, and I think I’ve settle on Seift Scirroccos for my daughter’s 308 and maybe the Barnes TTSX for my 338 Win Mag. I love the Scirroccos in everything I’ve shot them in.
223 kills deer just fine way past 75 yards. It’s all in the bullet. Back before I knew any better, my deer rifle of choice was a AR chambered in 223 Wylde, pushing a 69 grain Federal Gold Medal Match out of a 16” barrel. I killed 9 deer with that combo from 50-280 yards before I decided I was a deer hunter again and needed a proper deer rifle. Now, I’ve got more “deer rifles” than I will ever use in a season.
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