OT: Gun Control / School Shootings what would you do if you could?

[J-Dawg]

The big question is not what to do about guns. We have ALWAYS had a plethora of guns in this country. The big question is why have mass shootings increased in frequency?



/QUOTE]

This. Guns just as deadly as the AR have been in this country for decades, but these school shootings are a relatively recent occurrence starting with Luke Woodall in Pearl High School. Hell, back in the 20's and 30's the general public had access to Tommy guns and other full automatic weaponry, but not one school ever got shot up with one.

When morality and decency are frowned upon, and indecency is praised and idolized, this is what we get. As a Christian believer, I tend to think it coincides to when society made such a huge pushback against having "God in schools". However, it can be more simple than that. One doesn't have to be Christian or *insert religion* to have morals. We glorify immoral behavior at every turn and scoff at morality and decency. I'm not one to sit here and think that 100% of all humans "have some good in them". There are evil people out there that do evil things. Always have been, always will be. But for the most part one of the things that makes the human race the pinnacle race is our innate morality that is genetically woven into us. See books by C.S. Lewis or Dr. Francis Collins to explain this. However our cultural does not value or nurture those primal instincts..... we value and nurture the other primal instincts that lead to situations such as this. Broken homes, broken families, rampant STDs, rampant crime, etc. etc. etc. Our cultural normalizes tame variations of these every single day to the point it has desensitized entire generations in one way or another.

 

[mstateglfr]

One point of entry and trained/armed security. You go to some of these schools and they have doors propped open.

I think bullet proof windows and buzz locks on classroom doors is an idea worth exploring. I understand the locks in the door bring up scary thoughts from a fire department stand point, but it should be discussed. My kids used to attend and school that was doing some cosmetic building renovations. I approached the school about starting a fundraiser for replacing the windows and doors with bulletproof versions while the other renovations were happening. I figured the parents in each class could quickly chip in to make that happen. The school told me no.

Every school building should have only one entrance/exit point, with an armed guard stationed at that point.

Every other door to the buildings should be locked up.

All classrooms in the buildings should have locks, and every classroom should be locked except during class changes.

I appreciate the idea that fortifying schools into mini White Houses could help reduce school shootings, but it both misses a major point and is unrealistic.

- It misses the point of stopping mass shootings because it only addresses shootings in schools. There are so very many elsewhere. And if school shootings did stop, its reasonable to think people would just find another large gathering to shoot up.
- The cost to fortify schools with bullet proof windows would be more than I think any of us could even count in a day. And you think SROs at every school building is realistic? Guys, have you seen school district budgets recently? Across the country, one group has consistently pushed for less public school funding for years now. Less for more year after year.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Ban first person shooter games and similar. People are desensitized to killing at early ages by video games and video entertainment. Teach common courtesy. People need to stop acting like animals with no care about fellow humans. I’ll stop instead of going on and on. People can do massive amounts of damage with things other than guns. Guns are just the easiest in the current world we live in.

Read this please

 

[Duke Humphrey]

100%

 

[aspendawg]

Ban AR15's and high capacity ammunition clips.
No more open carry - it's 17'n stupid and I always think someone is compensating for their tiny penis when they do this. Alaska is the only state I've lived where carrying a gun was absolutely necessary.
We could fund some social programs for mental health - (or Medicaid for that matter) the same people who say we have a mental health crisis are the same ones who would refuse to go talk to a shrink and refuse to vote on funding it.
Quit romanticizing over guns.. I think there's this weird association with 'conservative masculinity' and gun ownership.


I work in Oil and Gas. We spend countless man hours pouring over data and investigative reviews to understand what happened when someone gets hurt or killed. We have a litany of safety requirements that are, often times, written in someone else's blood. I can tell you that access to guns is part of the problem and anyone who argues otherwise if full of ****. A single point of entry is a safety barrier in the swiss cheese model of safety but it's not the main reason. People need to go look their kids in the face and take a deep look inward about what's more important to them... the littler version of themselves looking back at you.. or some piece of metal that's meant to kill.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

If your implementing these as a dictator as you said it is still short sighted. Behavior is the issue. A person could strap on a bomb, could have a machete, could use a car or a plane, could make some sort of poison to accomplish these horrific things. They have been done throughout history of man in all cultures.

So I have really come to believe that art and games that present bad violence in a favorable fashion need to be stopped. Bad violence is where the instigator of the violence is rewarded as opposed to defenders that might have to use violence to protect life. People should not admire criminals, mafiosi, gangstas, after watching a movie, playing a game or listening to music. Children need to be taught if you are mean to other people you get punished and it is not acceptable. The Golden Rule should truly be Golden.

Enforce laws that are on the books especially the red flag laws. No real problem with background checks as they exist, but if you don't red flag someone when they make a threat, why make the law in the first place. Background checks are worthless if the data is not there.

If we as a society are not willing to lockup and throw away the key for someone willing to walk into a store, or stop a car, or up to a person and put a gun in someone's face to get whatever they have. Then just shut the <17> up. If you commit a crime with a gun 20 years minimum.

It sucks to have to build walls to protect our innocents but it is probably necessary since all my previous statements are pipe dreams.

Ukraine is absolute proof of the necessity to allow for gun ownership by the population. There are fascist tendencies in all government and there needs to be a means for the populous to fight if they go over the line. So for you lefties you need to be protected from MAGA and religious zealots and the righties need to be able to fight communist and socialists dictators.



All #1 would take is a gentleman's agreement and is something that should be done. All media companies need to just agree to not name any mass perpetrator. Call them Murderer of <insert victim's="" name="" here="">(insert victim's name here)</insert>

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

The fact those officers weren't comfortable doing their job tells me they need another job.

Not that I would want that job, but it seems a lot of the good guys with guns sat on their hands. Even tazed parents to keep them from going in to try and save their child. WTF?

 

[aTotal360]

First of all, you know I'm not laughing at kids getting shot. I'm laughing at the asinine idea of some entity getting people to turn over their guns. And you know that's the ultimate goal of the anti-2A community. Don't pretend it isn't.

If people want to kill, they will kill. I'm all for making it significantly more difficult, but like you said, the black market will proliferate. Unfortunately we cannot rid the world of evil people.

 

[ArcherSPS]

If video games had **** to do with anything then my *** would’ve been a four time heisman winner based off the ungodly amount of ncaa football I played.

 

[aTotal360]

IMO, there's a difference between a normal kid playing Mario Kart a few hours a week and an unstable kid with a death wish playing a first person shooter that rewards you for head shooting people in an airport for 5 hours a day.

 

[J-Dawg]

The fact that law enforcement officers don't feel comfortable going into a situation with an individual with an AR-15 is the best argument against these types of weapons being available to the public. They know they're outmatched in that type of situation.

That's a valid point, but I think it's not that simple at the same time. Another part of the downfall is the social pushback and ultra-litigiousness (is that a word?) we have created any time someones toes are stepped on. You gotta think there was some stupid governmental protocol or policy they were abiding by. Not saying it's an excuse, but it happens. Just 2 years ago we spent a whole summer demonizing all law officers based on the actions of a couple of them, had entire political campaigns ran on "DEFUNDING THE POLICE", etc. etc. Again, not saying it's right, but on the flip side I can see as to why there would be hesitancy in situations like this.

All of that said..... it's very weird how an off-duty Border Patrol agent is the one who ended it. Not the officers entrusted to protect the citizens of Uvalde. I agree that there needs to be a major investigation into that.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

I read it. My statement to any general study like that is that there are millions of kids that DON'T go into a school and shoot it up. Out of those millions we have 20 or so that have done it. So if violence desensitization happens to just 20 out of millions, you still get school shootings. None of those studies say it is benign to ALL.

 

[aTotal360]

For almost an hour. They supposedly listen to this happen going on for more than 45 minutes before someone acted.

 

[mstateglfr]

Gun Control / School Shootings what would you do if you could?

I would...
- ban most guns. Make it illegal to carry or even own most all types of guns. Anything beyond something that holds 5 bullets is illegal, unless it is registered for historical significance. If it is registered for historical significance, it must be displayed/protected and tracked yearly. Everyone can hunt with 5 bullets or less. Everyone can protect their homes with 5 bullets or less. Owning anything that has the capacity to hold more than 5 bullets would be a federal crime. The person would be forced to hand over all guns in their name and household and after serving time they would be on a federal banned ownership registry.
- increase the cost of bullets and reduce the production/importation. Basically, regulate bullets. This would mean shooting ranges are pretty much a thing of the past. Oh 17ing well. $15/bullet seems reasonably unreasonable. If someone wants to make their own bullets, there will always be people who have the energy and expertise to skirt the law. But regulating bullets thru pricing would reduce use. The higher cost would help offset revenues lost by companies, but a larger % would be taxed too and that could go towards any number of gun related programs to help reduce gun use.
- pass federal legislation that states parents are legally responsible for any shooting done by or as a result of minors in their household that used a gun from the house. If a kid shoots someone, parents are tried. If a kid gives a gun to a friend and the friend shoots someone, parents are tried. Lock up your 17ing ****.


To anyone that claims this is a violation of their 2a, it is not. Restrictions exist and this would just be more restrictions. The 2a does not specify you can own any 'arm' and we have already declared some 'arms' to not be allowed by citizens.
To anyone that claims this would reduce the possibility of the people being able to rise up and overthrow a corrupt government or some similar scenario, bless your heart.
To anyone that wants to argue how someone could carry 10 guns that hold 5 bullets each, yes that would be possible. Nothing will ever fully eliminate gun violence short of eliminating guns. My setup would reduce the total number of guns and make it less likely to turn to them for violence.




^ None of this will be popular with gun advocates. Unfortunately this has been a popularity contest for way too long and gun advocates have consistently declared guns to be more popular than innocent children and citizens.
You either want to reduce gun use or you support more innocent deaths. Thats the reality at this point as there is no more wiggling around with nuance or other ********.
ETA- I am convinced it would take Congress being shot up for gun legislation to change since anything short of the lawmakers being directly affected seems to result in hollow talk. And even that is something I am skeptical of since there have been multiple shootings involving Congress(baseball game, straight to the head, J6) and gun legislation is as worthless as ever.

 

[GloryDawg]

Maybe we should do a back ground check on someone buying a SUV. One can kill a **** load of people during a Christmas parade. Crazies will find a way.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

The only thing I know for sure is that do nothing cannot be the answer any longer. It's time to start trying things that "won't work" and see if they actually do until we find an answer. Maybe we are in a place were society has degraded so far that we have to take a different stance on guns than we ever have before? Incarceration sounds solid, but we already incarcerate way more people per capita than any other nation and the numbers aren't close, so something is broken there as well.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

They should all be fired immediately and quite frankly, deserve criminal charges. Tackling and tazing parents when attempting to go inside while they sat on their idle hands? Absolutely unacceptable. Pisses me off for all the good cops that would have risen to the occasion. Total embarrassment to the profession.

 

[ArcherSPS]

Maybe they will maybe they won’t, but why not put something in place to make it harder for them to do awful **** instead of saying “aww shucks thoughts and prayers” each time an avoidable tragedy? Before you call me a commie or some **** I own guns. Come from a gun owning family. There’s no reason to own a military grade weapon except for “having fun”. The using them against government angle is dumb as **** because guess what? We outspend every nation in the world in military spending, your *** ain’t making it out.

Another dumbass suggestion is arming teachers, like what 17ing school did you go to? My 75 year old science teacher wouldn’t have been able to defend **** and neither would’ve most of the others.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

I didn’t expect it to stop all mass shootings

I appreciate the idea that fortifying schools into mini White Houses could help reduce school shootings, but it both misses a major point and is unrealistic.

- It misses the point of stopping mass shootings because it only addresses shootings in schools. There are so very many elsewhere. And if school shootings did stop, its reasonable to think people would just find another large gathering to shoot up.
- The cost to fortify schools with bullet proof windows would be more than I think any of us could even count in a day. And you think SROs at every school building is realistic? Guys, have you seen school district budgets recently?.

Just a potential way to reduce the effects of a sicko on a school campus. Yes, retrofitting every school’s windows and door at the same time would be very expensive. Doesn’t have to be all done at once, and a lot of it could be done through fundraising by the parents. Would you chip in to buy one window for your kid’s class? Don’t let perfect get in the way of good. How much money did we just send to Ukraine? Could that money have helped with security at our schools?

 

[Len2003]

We have always had guns in this country. Always. Why are the mass shootings increasing? That's the question.

Because we have different types of guns that can do a lot more damage.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Just saw a headline that the guy was outside shooting for 12 minutes before he entered and still went in and killed after nobody did anything about a dude popping off rounds outside a school for that long.

 

[Cooterpoot]

Abortion kills 1700 kids a day. And you guys think guns are the problem. Fact is, we just don't value life at all.

 

[Len2003]

You realize an AR 15 isnt fully automatic and law enforcement has access to fully automatic weapons right? Not to mention body armor etc. Damn

Well, then the answer is for all law enforcement to be fully armed with similar gear.

 

[ckDOG]

Do what motivates most Americans - make it more expensive or burdensome

Databases, registrations, heavy taxes on brand new weapons, heavy fines for not registering, insurance requirements, criminal/civil liability for your weapon being used in crimes bc you couldn't control it and never reported it.

Lower taxes for simpler firearms. Higher taxes for more complex self-loading/semi-auto type weapons.

Gun buybacks.

Pros: 2A rights preserved (constitution doesn't say you have the right to cheap defense or your ownership kept private)
Cons: Bad guys know who has inventories of weapons.

Other thoughts:

Yes, bad guys ignore laws. This is not unique to gun laws and should stopped being used as an excuse to do nothing. I don't care to live in a world of anarchy. Ask yourself why are automatic weapons not being used in these massacres? Bc they are hard to get.

Yes, I own firearms. No, I do not think I stand any chance at defending myself against a hypothetical tyrannical USA and neither should you. We don't live in 1791 any longer and must adapt to the times. Patriotic cosplay be damned, I'm tired of children getting shot in the face bc it's easier to buy an AR-15 than it is beer. Do anything. We are the global outlier and it's insanity to continue to sit around with our thumbs up our assess claiming the solutions are simply more weapons. That clearly is not working.

 

[Cooterpoot]

Well, then the answer is for all law enforcement to be fully armed with similar gear.

Law enforcement has more that a kid with a damn AR already. If they didn't act, fire the whole damn bunch and start over.

 

[johnson86-1]

Preface: gun owner/hunter/2nd amendment supporter here; however, the US is unique in the mass shootings department and there has to be an answer/or answers

I would:

1. By law the shooter's name never gets out or publicized (just for those seeking some perverted 15 minutes of "fame")

1. Great in theory, but not a legal issue. Best you can try to do is create a societal norm that they don't publicize names, but realistically most people in media would sell their mother's soul for a little more fame, so very unlikely to happen.
2. If you are a parent of a minor who uses one of your guns, you get the same charge the do (keep your guns locked up)[/QUOTE] Not sure of the legality, but I like this, provided by minor you mean under 18.

1. If you have a gun stolen from your vehicle, you lose your gun rights because you are contributing to the illegal gun problem

1. If you do this, you are depriving a lot of people of the right to self defense. Places where you are likely to need a gun are places more likely to have vehicle breakins. And there are places you can't take a gun, and on top of that, places that taking them out of the vehicle would leave them less secure (e.g., the gym).

1. Extensive background checks before purchase of any firearm. Yes, you may have to wait a few days. If you have some shooting event so poorly planned that you can't wait that's on you. (this should not be political and should be common sense)

1. I guess but the reality is we already have background checks. I'm not sure what more they can realistically do while also not having a discretionary permitting regime, which is illegal because it is ripe for abuse, and realistically would be abused.

1. Not sure I'd ban the AR15 but high capacity military looking guns seem to be the popular weapon. I don't understand the psychology behind it as it certainly isn't the only one that can kill. However, i'd gladly do away with my AR15 range shooting if I knew that one kid's life would be saved

1. I think there is something to messed up people wanting to pretend they're not just insignificant people with small penises, but mostly the things that look "cool" also have legitimate functions.

Mods if this turns into some "patriots" against "libs" disaster, which it shouldn't, lock it sooner than later. I'm honestly looking to see if there are any legit pragmatic thoughts about solving the problem. It's quite depressing to see the state of the US vs a lot of other countries when it comes to mass killings by citizens.

The only thing I can think that would at least make schools less of a target is to have certain school officials get an additional stipend in exchange for getting trained and carrying a weapon. Probably needs to be some sort of administrator or backoffice type, not people in the class rooms. Of course, it looks like this is potentially the second LEOs have sat outside rather than confront the gunman (I say potentially because I'm still hopeful the ones outside were simply holding the perimeter while others were approaching the gunman), but at the very least, it will maybe make schools look like a slightly less soft target.

Other than that, if more law abiding people in general carried that would make the limp dick loser types maybe think twice about trying to make themselves feel significant on the way out. But that's somewhat hypocritical of me because I don't like carrying and so I don't.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

I read it. My statement to any general study like that is that there are millions of kids that DON'T go into a school and shoot it up. Out of those millions we have 20 or so that have done it. So if violence desensitization happens to just 20 out of millions, you still get school shootings. None of those studies say it is benign to ALL.

Bruce, the Virginia Tech shooter played an insane amount of Pokemon, a game where you catch and breed imaginary animals. Did that participate to his massacre? Correlation is not causation.

 

[johnson86-1]

Agreed on 2 - 4 and your preface & postscript. Not sure on the legality of 1 & 5.

I'd add:

6. Background check includes required Mental Health evaluation.

Unfortunately, any check has to be pretty black and white or else it would just be abused.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

gun legislation is as worthless as ever.

Could've just said this. You aren't ever going to convince someone that their family should be less safe for the sake of someone else's family. People who legally and responsibly own guns aren't going to give away the peace of mind they get from having something to protect their family. So anything like that is a non-starter. You're screaming into a hurricane.

 

[ckDOG]

Are these games unique to USA?

Ban first person shooter games and similar. People are desensitized to killing at early ages by video games and video entertainment. Teach common courtesy. People need to stop acting like animals with no care about fellow humans. I’ll stop instead of going on and on. People can do massive amounts of damage with things other than guns. Guns are just the easiest in the current world we live in.

Genuine question. I suspect no, but maybe we are just especially perverse in our violent entertainment.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

You clearly don't know a lot about guns and American history

Because we have different types of guns that can do a lot more damage.

This is one of the problems I have with gun control arguments. Those that espouse them rarely, if ever, have any working knowledge of guns.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

these mass shooting events happen at every public place. the focus on schools is just because this most recent tragedy happened at a school. Church? Grocery Store? Concert? Library? Mall? Park?

 

[paindonthurt]

School shootings didn’t start until the mid 90s
The same weapons were available before then.

What has changed?

An absolute breakdown in morality. And you don’t have to be religious/faithful/Christian to see that.

 

[paindonthurt]

Don’t know how this got 8 downvotes.

This would also help a ton of problems at inner city schools that aren’t gun violence related.

Pretty damn good movie out there with Morgan Freeman in it.

Morgan’s character faced the same problems we face today though. Idiots.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

I cannot fathom how people who support freedom get behind turning all of our public institutions into checkpoints. Every time we require check or chokepoints, we inculcate our populace to being imprisoned. My kids think it is normal that all of their schools, airports, and public places have metal detectors, magnet locked doors, and prison-style control methods. How is normalizing this American? This is about trading one very specific freedom (ownership of specific firearms) for a variety of other freedoms; namely the ability for all Americans to move about without constant police-style control.

 

[kired]

Maybe they will maybe they won’t, but why not put something in place to make it harder for them to do awful **** instead of saying “aww shucks thoughts and prayers” each time an avoidable tragedy?

The worthless politicians throwing out "thoughts & prayers" or how they're "so heartbroken" need to be the ones carrying the 10 year old bodies out and cleaning the blood off the floors. See the **** firsthand like the kids that survive these shootings.

 

[johnson86-1]

Maybe they will maybe they won’t, but why not put something in place to make it harder for them to do awful **** instead of saying “aww shucks thoughts and prayers” each time an avoidable tragedy? Before you call me a commie or some **** I own guns. Come from a gun owning family. There’s no reason to own a military grade weapon except for “having fun”. The using them against government angle is dumb as **** because guess what? We outspend every nation in the world in military spending, your *** ain’t making it out.

Another dumbass suggestion is arming teachers, like what 17ing school did you go to? My 75 year old science teacher wouldn’t have been able to defend **** and neither would’ve most of the others.

How was this one avoidable?

Most of the time, people respond with things that are either not feasible or simply wouldn't even address the tragedy at hand.

Obviously more mental health resources could help, but you're talking about identifying a needle in a stack of needles. Lots of adolescent boys are lost and generally just weird as ****. The vast majority of them don't end up hurting anybody. If they benefit from mental health treatment, then that's good even if it doesn't catch the potential killers, but we need to be realistic about what we can do.

 

[paindonthurt]

I don’t disagree with this but damn can we please get a legal definition of assault rifle.

 

[paindonthurt]

They don’t care about what you have to say. They don’t really care about a solution.

They care about getting what they want.

 

[MSUGUY]

Well said J dawg, If an individual doesn’t see anything wrong with this no law will fix it. It is a much deeper societal issue. However all children should be protected by law enforcement and locked doors at school!