OT: Hunters and Shooters

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Don't want to start a cartridge argument on here, but maybe I kind of do.**

Seriously. Where do we all stand on the ballistics argument of a hunting round. Do you care more about the diameter of the round, weight, the energy at impact, velocity, or some combination. For example.

Assuming accuracy and cost are the same, with factory ammo of a good hunting bullet which of the 2 below is a more powerful hunting round for deer at 300 yards in your opinion. (This is from Sportsman's Warehouse website, was just an easy place to pull data for the examples.)

.308 Winchester 165 grain @ 300 yards 2116 ft/s velocity and 1640 ft-lbs energy @ impact
or
.270 WSM 145 grain @ 300 yards 2575 ft/s velocity and 2136 ft-lbs energy @ impact

So the debate is what is going to have better killing power in case you hit a shoulder or something. Do we want a heavier bullet with a bigger diameter or faster bullet with more energy at impact. Of course you have to have a bullet that expands properly to take advantage of either.

I guess I have always thought the bigger caliber was more critical and never really questioned it, but over the last few years reading and learning the greater energy actually makes more sense now. I read somewhere in a perfect world you want a bullet that expands upon impact and goes all the way to the skin on the other side of the game without punching through the hide to make sure all of the energy is transferred into target. Energy is wasted if we get a through and through.

Anyhow, if you go with the the 1000 ft-lbs of energy guideline to ethically take white tail, both of these options are good at 300 yards, but if you take out to 500 yards the .308 is barely making it past 1000 ft-lbs and the .270 WSM still above the 1640 ft-lbs the .308 has at 300 yards.

I guess count me in on team trust the scie.... err better say physics and give me the .270 WSM for the win on power. What about the rest of you knuckleheads?

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

If I’m choosing between the 2 I’m going .270 but I’m biased….I shoot a .270 Weatherby.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

One's preference solely depends on belt vs wooden spoon vs switch vs Hot Wheel Track.*

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I shoot a .270 Weatherby.

Not something you hear very often. That one's hard to find. Love me some WBY.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Not something you hear very often. That one's hard to find. Love me some WBY.

Yeah it’s not fun finding bullets but I still have two boxes which will last me a while.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Of those 2, I would go .270 but there a few calibers that I would take over both. I'm partial to 7mm's. Under 500, 7-08 and 280 AI out to 800+ depending on your ability.

Edited to add the 7 saum and wsm. I'm partial to Barnes bullets too.

 

[Big Sheep81]

.308 Winchester was the choice of military snipers for many, many, years. It's a versatile cartridge that has a lot of loading options. Recoil is not severe. The figures you gave will vary based on bullet weight and powder types/loads. .270 is a great round and also very versatile. If you are figuring on taking shots at ranges of 500 yds or more then there's lots of newer cartridges that can knock a buffalo down. If knock down is what you want PopPop, I'd invest in a .50 cal. It will penetrate a Bradley Fighting Vehicle at that range. Enjoy the recoil.......

 

[NTDawg]

Don't want to start a cartridge argument on here, but maybe I kind of do.**

Seriously. Where do we all stand on the ballistics argument of a hunting round. Do you care more about the diameter of the round, weight, the energy at impact, velocity, or some combination. For example.

Assuming accuracy and cost are the same, with factory ammo of a good hunting bullet which of the 2 below is a more powerful hunting round for deer at 300 yards in your opinion. (This is from Sportsman's Warehouse website, was just an easy place to pull data for the examples.)

.308 Winchester 165 grain @ 300 yards 2116 ft/s velocity and 1640 ft-lbs energy @ impact
or
.270 WSM 145 grain @ 300 yards 2575 ft/s velocity and 2136 ft-lbs energy @ impact

So the debate is what is going to have better killing power in case you hit a shoulder or something. Do we want a heavier bullet with a bigger diameter or faster bullet with more energy at impact. Of course you have to have a bullet that expands properly to take advantage of either.

I guess I have always thought the bigger caliber was more critical and never really questioned it, but over the last few years reading and learning the greater energy actually makes more sense now. I read somewhere in a perfect world you want a bullet that expands upon impact and goes all the way to the skin on the other side of the game without punching through the hide to make sure all of the energy is transferred into target. Energy is wasted if we get a through and through.

Anyhow, if you go with the the 1000 ft-lbs of energy guideline to ethically take white tail, both of these options are good at 300 yards, but if you take out to 500 yards the .308 is barely making it past 1000 ft-lbs and the .270 WSM still above the 1640 ft-lbs the .308 has at 300 yards.

I guess count me in on team trust the scie.... err better say physics and give me the .270 WSM for the win on power. What about the rest of you knuckleheads?

I know you asked .308 vs .270 wsm and if those are my only options I would chose the .270 wsm but based on hunting mule deer and or elk at 300 yards it would be hard for me not to get a 300 win mag. You could also go with a 300 wsm but there are a lot more options, rifle and ammo, for the 300 win mag.

.300 win mag 165 grain @300 yards 2609 fps and 2493 ft-lbs energy -5.5 drop

 

[Augustus McCrae]

I’m partial to the.308 because my rifle is like an extension of me when I’m holding it. I’m comfortable with it and my ability to place the shot where I want it. I also have a.270 and there is a noticeable difference in recoil compared to the.308. I also shoot it well but not as well as the .308. Given your scenario I’d probably go with the.308 as personal preference. Otherwise I’d pick option 3 which is a.30-06 and it is an absolute tack driver. It has a lot of sentimental value to me and I don’t hunt with it much, especially rough terrain. It has a great fit and finish and I don’t want to damage it. It’s also a pretty heavy rifle which helps with recoil but would be a pain to lug up and down hills / mountains. Good thread, should generate lots of good discussion.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

.308 Winchester was the choice of military snipers for many, many, years. It's a versatile cartridge that has a lot of loading options. Recoil is not severe. The figures you gave will vary based on bullet weight and powder types/loads. .270 is a great round and also very versatile. If you are figuring on taking shots at ranges of 500 yds or more then there's lots of newer cartridges that can knock a buffalo down. If knock down is what you want PopPop, I'd invest in a .50 cal. It will penetrate a Bradley Fighting Vehicle at that range. Enjoy the recoil.......

Not selecting between the rounds. Tried to pick something arbitrary that shows the difference between smaller and faster vs bigger and slower. Just curious where everyone is at on the argument of energy vs bullet size.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Not something you hear very often. That one's hard to find. Love me some WBY.

Hot mama, I have a cousin that shoots one. Finding ammo is a Bit...ch

 

[MaxwellSmart]

You always want energy. Bullet size isn't as important above 6-6.5 mm. I load my own hunting ammo so I try to find what velocity is needed for a bullet to properly expand at the maximum distance I want to shoot and stay above 1000 ft lbs of energy.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I know you asked .308 vs .270 wsm and if those are my only options I would chose the .270 wsm but based on hunting mule deer and or elk at 300 yards it would be hard for me not to get a 300 win mag. You could also go with a 300 wsm but there are a lot more options, rifle and ammo, for the 300 win mag.

.300 win mag 165 grain @300 yards 2609 fps and 2493 ft-lbs energy -5.5 drop

I'm not deciding old bull. I was just bored and curious on the takes. I was talking ballistics at the beer table with some guys last night and everyone had a different opinion on energy vs bullet diameter.. I be shooting a .300 wby

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

I own rifles in 308, 270, and 270 weatherby magnum. On paper, between 270 wsm and 308 @300 yds the 270 is the winner based off bullet drop and wind resistance due to ballistic coefficient. I’d choose a different caliber at 300 yds.
Personally, I’ve shot deer with a 270 for 20 years. I always double lung a deer and rarely drop them immediately with 130 grain federal fusion at ranges from 50-150 yards. Usually had a blood trail and a deer within 50 yards. Never lost one with good shot placement. Swapped to 150 grain 308 because I bought a Winchester model 70 featherweight 3 years ago and have been amazed at how every deer and hog died before it hit the ground with hand loaded Hornady Interlock.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I’m partial to the.308 because my rifle is like an extension of me when I’m holding it. I’m comfortable with it and my ability to place the shot where I want it. I also have a.270 and there is a noticeable difference in recoil compared to the.308. I also shoot it well but not as well as the .308. Given your scenario I’d probably go with the.308 as personal preference. Otherwise I’d pick option 3 which is a.30-06 and it is an absolute tack driver. It has a lot of sentimental value to me and I don’t hunt with it much, especially rough terrain. It has a great fit and finish and I don’t want to damage it. It’s also a pretty heavy rifle which helps with recoil but would be a pain to lug up and down hills / mountains. Good thread, should generate lots of good discussion.

I figured you were all in on that .44 cal Henry ....

 

[Cantdoitsal]

I still wanna kill a deer and have someone show me how to cut it open and harvest the meat. After that, I'll show them how to cook meat on a brinkman smoker.

 

[Augustus McCrae]

I figured you were all in on that .44 cal Henry ....

View attachment 305060

View attachment 305062

Oh I am. I can still shoot the dick off a flea at 100 yards with that Henry. But alas times have changed and advancements have been made. Here’s to the sunny slopes of long ago.

Now go get me a *****.

 

[Fishsqeezer]

I hand load 7mm magnum rds with a 120g ballistic tip v-max bullet that shoot in the same holes at 150yds as they do at 100yds (loaded with 50 grains of IMG powder)

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

I hand load 7mm magnum rds with a 120g ballistic tip v-max bullet that shoot in the same holes at 150yds as they do at 100yds (loaded with 50 grains of IMG powder)

IMG? is that IMR ? #?

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

6.5 needmore shooters sit down to pee.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

6.5 needmore shooters sit down to pee.

I tend to agree, but plenty use 234 Win, so it will work.

 

[AlSwearengen2]

Go to YouTube and watch some of those ballistic gel videos. Doesn’t really matter which caliber. You will see that speed kills.

 

[M R DAWGS]

I’ve reverted to shooting older calibers. The last 3 nice bucks I’ve killed have been with a 30-30. If I had to choose one caliber that flat out kills, it would be a 30-06.
Leverguns speak to me.

 

[40mikemike]

Velocity and sectional density matter more than the diameter of the bullet, though bigger bullets make bigger holes. As hunters and shooters we waste way too much time deciding on a cartridge. Shoot a bullet that is heavy for caliber with a high sectional density and designed to expand and you’ll be fine. The Sierra Game King is probably my favorite bullet of all time for hunting, but the solid copper offerings are really good. I’ve killed deer with a wide range of cartridges and bullets from 22 LR to 300 Win Mag. The only deer I have ever lost with a rifle was the result of a bad shot. Scope was off and the deer was hit right where the tenderloin starts. A buddy of mine killed him two days later. Unless you are talking about extreme conditions/ranges, the cartridge doesn’t matter. Pick a good bullet and go kill things. Hell, i went on a four year stretch where the only rifle i hunted with was a 16" barreled AR-15 and never lost a deer shooting 69 grain Federal Gold Medal Match ammo because that's what i had.

 

[Augustus McCrae]

6.5 needmore shooters sit down to pee.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

I’ve reverted to shooting older calibers. The last 3 nice bucks I’ve killed have been with a 30-30. If I had to choose one caliber that flat out kills, it would be a 30-06.
Leverguns speak to me.

30-30, what is wrong with you.? That projectile is only leaving the barrel at about 2300 ft/s.

 

[M R DAWGS]

30-30, what is wrong with you.? That projectile is only leaving the barrel at about 2300 ft/s.

I hunt in the woods, none of my shots are more than 125 yds. The 30-30 works fine.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

I hunt in the woods, none of my shots are more than 125 yds. The 30-30 works fine.

I was kidding.

 

[Augustus McCrae]

I hunt in the woods, none of my shots are more than 125 yds. The 30-30 works fine.

Absolutely. The 30-30 has killed more than its share of deer over the years.

 

[Yeti]

I bought a 6.5 PRC this year. Shoots well not a ton of kick 2109 lbs 2900 fps 147 grain at 300 yards. Now not sure why I bought it haven killed a deer with it never even loaded my gun while in the stand. But I did enjoy some mornings and evenings with a good cup of coffee and all Gods flora a fauna. Did have a nice 150 killed on my farm this year and before you delta boys make fun of it that’s a west tn doozie

 

[Coast_Dawg]

Don't want to start a cartridge argument on here, but maybe I kind of do.**

Seriously. Where do we all stand on the ballistics argument of a hunting round. Do you care more about the diameter of the round, weight, the energy at impact, velocity, or some combination. For example.

Assuming accuracy and cost are the same, with factory ammo of a good hunting bullet which of the 2 below is a more powerful hunting round for deer at 300 yards in your opinion. (This is from Sportsman's Warehouse website, was just an easy place to pull data for the examples.)

.308 Winchester 165 grain @ 300 yards 2116 ft/s velocity and 1640 ft-lbs energy @ impact
or
.270 WSM 145 grain @ 300 yards 2575 ft/s velocity and 2136 ft-lbs energy @ impact

So the debate is what is going to have better killing power in case you hit a shoulder or something. Do we want a heavier bullet with a bigger diameter or faster bullet with more energy at impact. Of course you have to have a bullet that expands properly to take advantage of either.

I guess I have always thought the bigger caliber was more critical and never really questioned it, but over the last few years reading and learning the greater energy actually makes more sense now. I read somewhere in a perfect world you want a bullet that expands upon impact and goes all the way to the skin on the other side of the game without punching through the hide to make sure all of the energy is transferred into target. Energy is wasted if we get a through and through.

Anyhow, if you go with the the 1000 ft-lbs of energy guideline to ethically take white tail, both of these options are good at 300 yards, but if you take out to 500 yards the .308 is barely making it past 1000 ft-lbs and the .270 WSM still above the 1640 ft-lbs the .308 has at 300 yards.

I guess count me in on team trust the scie.... err better say physics and give me the .270 WSM for the win on power. What about the rest of you knuckleheads?

Bullet type would need to be factored in as well.

270 WSM vs 308 Win isn’t the best comparison to me because the 270 will likely win all the way down.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Bullet type would need to be factored in as well.

270 WSM vs 308 Win isn’t the best comparison to me because the 270 will likely win all the way down.

Agreed. Lots of bias out there towards caliber and weight vs the whole picture.

 

[NTDawg]

Not selecting between the rounds. Tried to pick something arbitrary that shows the difference between smaller and faster vs bigger and slower. Just curious where everyone is at on the argument of energy vs bullet size.

I'm not deciding old bull. I was just bored and curious on the takes. I was talking ballistics at the beer table with some guys last night and everyone had a different opinion on energy vs bullet diameter.. I be shooting a .300 wby

I'm not deciding old bull. I was just bored and curious on the takes. I was talking ballistics at the beer table with some guys last night and everyone had a different opinion on energy vs bullet diameter.. I be shooting a .300 wby

Im an old bull that shoots an old cartridge 30-06. Every time that I think about changing to a newer round I realize how good of an all around caliber the 06 is. If I hunted Elk/bear out west I might change but probably not. The only other benefit for me to change would be for recoil management but I’m not a paper puncher. I shoot for meat only.

 

[Travelingdawg]

I have 308 Bar & 270 WSM A-Bolt by Browning love them both. That being said I hunt with 270 WSM 100% of the time.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Im an old bull that shoots an old cartridge 30-06. Every time that I think about changing to a newer round I realize how good of an all around caliber the 06 is. If I hunted Elk/bear out west I might change but probably not. The only other benefit for me to change would be for recoil management but I’m not a paper puncher. I shoot for meat only.

Getting down to basics, It's 30-06, .308 Win, or 270 Win. for me.
I like a few others.

 

[M R DAWGS]

Im an old bull that shoots an old cartridge 30-06. Every time that I think about changing to a newer round I realize how good of an all around caliber the 06 is. If I hunted Elk/bear out west I might change but probably not. The only other benefit for me to change would be for recoil management but I’m not a paper puncher. I shoot for meat only.

It is hard to beat the 30-06.

 

[StumpNewGround]

Depends on where you hunt. I love a .30-06. But I hunt in the delta. I’ve got family members shooting these new flat shooting calibers and dialing stuff up at 500 yards. I’m probably going to change.

 

[NTDawg]

Getting down to basics, It's 30-06, .308 Win, or 270 Win. for me.
I like a few others.

Depends on where you hunt. I love a .30-06. But I hunt in the delta. I’ve got family members shooting these new flat shooting calibers and dialing stuff up at 500 yards. I’m probably going to change.

If I was shooting whitetail at 500 yards I would probably change to 6.5 creedmore because I would have to shoot at paper more than I would want to shoot my 30-06

 

[Fishsqeezer]

IMG? is that IMR ? #?

Yeah, stupid fat fingers

 

[40mikemike]

Depends on where you hunt. I love a .30-06. But I hunt in the delta. I’ve got family members shooting these new flat shooting calibers and dialing stuff up at 500 yards. I’m probably going to change.

You can dial that 30-06 just as easily as you can dial anything else. The only reason to swap to something “flatter shooting”’would be to change your minimum PBR, so that you don’t have to dial or hold over. With modern laser range finders and reticles with holdovers, there’s no reason to swap from your 30-06 unless you just want something new or want less recoil.