OT: Hunters and Shooters

[cowbell88]

I have a 45-70 (H&R), 35 Whalen (CVA), 30-06 (Browning), 270 (Remington)and a 308 (Tikka). All have killed white tailed deer.

The 270 was my first rifle that got me through my teenage years. The 30-06 has been my go to rifle for about 30 years and the 35 is just a bad mfer on both ends.

I just got the 308 at the first of the year and it went 2-2 shooting a 150 gr Hornady. Both deer dropped in tracks. Both shot in neck a 9 point at 15 yards (no exit hole) and doe at 75 yards. She flopped around for several minutes. With that being said, I’m not really satisfied with that round. I’ve always liked a heavier bullet. Does anyone else have a stainless Tikka? What round does it shoot the best?

 

[ronpolk]

If I’m choosing between the 2 I’m going .270 but I’m biased….I shoot a .270 Weatherby.

I have 3 hunting rifles that I mostly use. 35 whelen for primitive weapon and then I’ll use either a 30/06 Remington or 270 tikka. The 35 is by far the most powerful gun does not have the range though. But best overall is 270 in my opinion. Love that gun. But part of it is because I’ve become a fan of tikka in general.

I wouldn’t be opposed to a 308 though. Simply because 308 ammo is plentiful.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

Don't want to start a cartridge argument on here, but maybe I kind of do.**

Seriously. Where do we all stand on the ballistics argument of a hunting round. Do you care more about the diameter of the round, weight, the energy at impact, velocity, or some combination. For example.

Assuming accuracy and cost are the same, with factory ammo of a good hunting bullet which of the 2 below is a more powerful hunting round for deer at 300 yards in your opinion. (This is from Sportsman's Warehouse website, was just an easy place to pull data for the examples.)

.308 Winchester 165 grain @ 300 yards 2116 ft/s velocity and 1640 ft-lbs energy @ impact
or
.270 WSM 145 grain @ 300 yards 2575 ft/s velocity and 2136 ft-lbs energy @ impact

So the debate is what is going to have better killing power in case you hit a shoulder or something. Do we want a heavier bullet with a bigger diameter or faster bullet with more energy at impact. Of course you have to have a bullet that expands properly to take advantage of either.

I guess I have always thought the bigger caliber was more critical and never really questioned it, but over the last few years reading and learning the greater energy actually makes more sense now. I read somewhere in a perfect world you want a bullet that expands upon impact and goes all the way to the skin on the other side of the game without punching through the hide to make sure all of the energy is transferred into target. Energy is wasted if we get a through and through.

Anyhow, if you go with the the 1000 ft-lbs of energy guideline to ethically take white tail, both of these options are good at 300 yards, but if you take out to 500 yards the .308 is barely making it past 1000 ft-lbs and the .270 WSM still above the 1640 ft-lbs the .308 has at 300 yards.

I guess count me in on team trust the scie.... err better say physics and give me the .270 WSM for the win on power. What about the rest of you knuckleheads?

Formula for kinetic energy is KE = 1/2mv^2 with m being mass and v being velocity. So increasing velocity increases kinetic energy exponentially more than increasing mass. So a faster bullet delivers more down range energy than a bigger bullet. Now obviously size is important (that's what she said), but if sizes are comparable then go with the one that's faster.

 

[turkish]

Don't want to start a cartridge argument on here, but maybe I kind of do.**

Seriously. Where do we all stand on the ballistics argument of a hunting round. Do you care more about the diameter of the round, weight, the energy at impact, velocity, or some combination. For example.

Assuming accuracy and cost are the same, with factory ammo of a good hunting bullet which of the 2 below is a more powerful hunting round for deer at 300 yards in your opinion. (This is from Sportsman's Warehouse website, was just an easy place to pull data for the examples.)

.308 Winchester 165 grain @ 300 yards 2116 ft/s velocity and 1640 ft-lbs energy @ impact
or
.270 WSM 145 grain @ 300 yards 2575 ft/s velocity and 2136 ft-lbs energy @ impact

So the debate is what is going to have better killing power in case you hit a shoulder or something. Do we want a heavier bullet with a bigger diameter or faster bullet with more energy at impact. Of course you have to have a bullet that expands properly to take advantage of either.

I guess I have always thought the bigger caliber was more critical and never really questioned it, but over the last few years reading and learning the greater energy actually makes more sense now. I read somewhere in a perfect world you want a bullet that expands upon impact and goes all the way to the skin on the other side of the game without punching through the hide to make sure all of the energy is transferred into target. Energy is wasted if we get a through and through.

Anyhow, if you go with the the 1000 ft-lbs of energy guideline to ethically take white tail, both of these options are good at 300 yards, but if you take out to 500 yards the .308 is barely making it past 1000 ft-lbs and the .270 WSM still above the 1640 ft-lbs the .308 has at 300 yards.

I guess count me in on team trust the scie.... err better say physics and give me the .270 WSM for the win on power. What about the rest of you knuckleheads?

Spent primers are what matter. What can you shoot more and what can you shoot best?

I wouldn’t touch a 270 wsm unless I reloaded AND was sitting on several hundred pieces of brass.

 

[aTotal360]

Most ammo convos revolve around marketing influence. Truth of the matter is no 2 barrels are exactly the same because of the manufacturing process. It all depends where in the run that barrel was bored. The first 10 are going to shoot different from the middle 10 and differently from the last 10. You have to try enough ammo to find the right combo for you setup.

I shoot a 25 year old a-bolt 30.06. The most consistent I found for it is the 150 GR Remington corelokt. I’ve tried hand loads and hi dollar hornadys, but nothing shoots as well as that Remington load. Plus I like core lokt. I’m not a ballistic tip fan. I want an exit wound. And if I happen to go hunting out of state, I can always find that ammo at Walmart.

 

[trob115]

I have a 45-70 (H&R), 35 Whalen (CVA), 30-06 (Browning), 270 (Remington)and a 308 (Tikka). All have killed white tailed deer.

The 270 was my first rifle that got me through my teenage years. The 30-06 has been my go to rifle for about 30 years and the 35 is just a bad mfer on both ends.

I just got the 308 at the first of the year and it went 2-2 shooting a 150 gr Hornady. Both deer dropped in tracks. Both shot in neck a 9 point at 15 yards (no exit hole) and doe at 75 yards. She flopped around for several minutes. With that being said, I’m not really satisfied with that round. I’ve always liked a heavier bullet. Does anyone else have a stainless Tikka? What round does it shoot the best?

308 stainless tikka is a horrible gun. You should just send it to me for disposal

 

[jethreauxdawg]

I’ve reverted to shooting older calibers. The last 3 nice bucks I’ve killed have been with a 30-30. If I had to choose one caliber that flat out kills, it would be a 30-06.
Leverguns speak to me.

What are those?

 

[Joe Schmedlap]

If you are hunting white tail deer and won’t typically be shooting out past 400 yards, just get a 30-06 (or .308 if you want slightly less recoil). There’s no magic caliber, but 30-06 is so versatile with so many options on bullet size and ammo is readily available everywhere (and .308 is also readily available). More speed equals more KE, but you don’t need a rail gun at the speed of light to harvest white tail deer. Shoot heavy for caliber bullet weights in an expanding bullet in whatever caliber you choose. Do your part on shot placement and venison will be in the freezer.

 

[M R DAWGS]

What are those?

Marlin 336ss 30-30’s

 

[SirBarksalot]

 

[SirBarksalot]

Depends on where you hunt. I love a .30-06. But I hunt in the delta. I’ve got family members shooting these new flat shooting calibers and dialing stuff up at 500 yards. I’m probably going to change.

Your stand is in the wrong spot….

But hey, we all like new toys, even if we don’t really need them!

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

GUN NERD ALERT!!!

It has been a long time since I've went hunting and used rifle but I had a 30.06 Remington those days and it served its purpose. I had a lot of second hand experience around a lot of different rifles and calibers used and all I can tell that I learned was you is whatever makes you happy is what you should shoot. I killed several deer with my rifle but for the type of hunting that I did in close quarters and thick woods I killed more deer with a single shot 12 gauge with a 3 inch magnum chamber, shooting 3 inch 000 Buckshot or a Rifled Slug. If I had to pick a general purpose, I would definitely use a 270 or 308 for Whitetail.

 

[AlSwearengen2]

Tikka 6.5 CTR here. Not a hunting rifle, but I use it to shoot my one deer per season. I don’t enjoy deer hunting, but do like deer sausage.

Tikka makes a nice gun.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

Poo, if you are just going to shoot deer within 300 yards just go with whatever you like the best. Couple of points to consider though. If you load your own ammo, no problem. If you depend on factory ammo I would lean toward the .308. I have see .308 ammo available over the last couple of years when the shelves were almost bare. Living in Idaho, longer range shooting is common. Either one would work ok at longer distances with quality bullets and may I suggest a scope with the ballistic turret. You live in elk country. As you know they are big tough animals, and when I say tough, I mean really tough. They may fall down when they shoot them on TV, but in the real world results may vary. I have killed a few elk and have been with others that killed them. Even with a perfectly placed bullet they all seem to require a second or third round. For deer only, shoot whatever makes you happy that you can find Ammo for. Living in Idaho, I recommend the 300wm. Ammo is pretty common, quality bonded bullets are available. They will kill anything in North America and provide ample protection from an unhappy Grizzly. Top that 300 with some quality glass and a ballistic turret and you are ready. I have a closet full of rifles but use a 300 here shooting Mississippi Whitetails most of the time. No, it’s not necessary but it keeps me tuned up for my frequent Western excursions. Plus, I just like to shoot it. I currently have four 300’s and have been drooling over getting a Christensen Ridgeline in 300wm recently. No, I do t need it but I guess I am like a junky when it comes to hunting rifles. I can’t get enough. BTW, the 300PRC is real popular right now but I don’t recommend it for hunting. First, you can’t find ammo and second , it has a real fast barrel twist for lobbing heavy bullets at steel targets 1,500 yards away, not shooting 180 grain Accubonds at deer, elk, etc. Great topic. One of my favorites.

 

[40mikemike]

Poo, if you are just going to shoot deer within 300 yards just go with whatever you like the best. Couple of points to consider though. If you load your own ammo, no problem. If you depend on factory ammo I would lean toward the .308. I have see .308 ammo available over the last couple of years when the shelves were almost bare. Living in Idaho, longer range shooting is common. Either one would work ok at longer distances with quality bullets and may I suggest a scope with the ballistic turret. You live in elk country. As you know they are big tough animals, and when I say tough, I mean really tough. They may fall down when they shoot them on TV, but in the real world results may vary. I have killed a few elk and have been with others that killed them. Even with a perfectly placed bullet they all seem to require a second or third round. For deer only, shoot whatever makes you happy that you can find Ammo for. Living in Idaho, I recommend the 300wm. Ammo is pretty common, quality bonded bullets are available. They will kill anything in North America and provide ample protection from an unhappy Grizzly. Top that 300 with some quality glass and a ballistic turret and you are ready. I have a closet full of rifles but use a 300 here shooting Mississippi Whitetails most of the time. No, it’s not necessary but it keeps me tuned up for my frequent Western excursions. Plus, I just like to shoot it. I currently have four 300’s and have been drooling over getting a Christensen Ridgeline in 300wm recently. No, I do t need it but I guess I am like a junky when it comes to hunting rifles. I can’t get enough. BTW, the 300PRC is real popular right now but I don’t recommend it for hunting. First, you can’t find ammo and second , it has a real fast barrel twist for lobbing heavy bullets at steel targets 1,500 yards away, not shooting 180 grain Accubonds at deer, elk, etc. Great topic. One of my favorites.

I’m a 300 Win Mag guy too, but the 300 PRC is it’s equal in every way and it’s better in most areas. There’s nothing a 180 grain bullet can do that a 212 grain bullet can’t do. I’ll agree that there is a ton more variety and availability in 300 WM ammo, but that 212 grain ELD-X out of a 300 PRC is every bit the killer that a 180 grain bullet is and then some.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Poo, if you are just going to shoot deer within 300 yards just go with whatever you like the best. Couple of points to consider though. If you load your own ammo, no problem. If you depend on factory ammo I would lean toward the .308. I have see .308 ammo available over the last couple of years when the shelves were almost bare. Living in Idaho, longer range shooting is common. Either one would work ok at longer distances with quality bullets and may I suggest a scope with the ballistic turret. You live in elk country. As you know they are big tough animals, and when I say tough, I mean really tough. They may fall down when they shoot them on TV, but in the real world results may vary. I have killed a few elk and have been with others that killed them. Even with a perfectly placed bullet they all seem to require a second or third round. For deer only, shoot whatever makes you happy that you can find Ammo for. Living in Idaho, I recommend the 300wm. Ammo is pretty common, quality bonded bullets are available. They will kill anything in North America and provide ample protection from an unhappy Grizzly. Top that 300 with some quality glass and a ballistic turret and you are ready. I have a closet full of rifles but use a 300 here shooting Mississippi Whitetails most of the time. No, it’s not necessary but it keeps me tuned up for my frequent Western excursions. Plus, I just like to shoot it. I currently have four 300’s and have been drooling over getting a Christensen Ridgeline in 300wm recently. No, I do t need it but I guess I am like a junky when it comes to hunting rifles. I can’t get enough. BTW, the 300PRC is real popular right now but I don’t recommend it for hunting. First, you can’t find ammo and second , it has a real fast barrel twist for lobbing heavy bullets at steel targets 1,500 yards away, not shooting 180 grain Accubonds at deer, elk, etc. Great topic. One of my favorites.

Good info. I am not in the market personally. I was just using the 2 rounds as examples of small and fast vs bigger and a little slower and just curious where everybody stands.

I am hunting with a .300 Wby mag with a muzzle brake. Figure I can shoot em out to 300-700+ yards if I ever wanted and I can scare em to death with the muzzle blast inside of 300.*** When I lived in the south I had a .308 as it was all the rifle I needed. Before I moved out here I knew what I wanted, never looked at the ballistics, just figured Ole Roy was onto something 80 years ago. So my .308 it is living in MS where it will do all that is needed.

I am not a gun collector at this point in life, I have an semi-automatic 12 gauge, a semi-automatic pistol, and a bolt action rifle... Now I just need a good bow.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

Good info. I am not in the market personally. I was just using the 2 rounds as examples of small and fast vs bigger and a little slower and just curious where everybody stands.

I am hunting with a .300 Wby mag with a muzzle brake. Figure I can shoot em out to 300-700+ yards if I ever wanted and I can scare em to death with the muzzle blast inside of 300.*** When I lived in the south I had a .308 as it was all the rifle I needed. Before I moved out here I knew what I wanted, never looked at the ballistics, just figured Ole Roy was onto something 80 years ago. So my .308 it is living in MS where it will do all that is needed.

I am not a gun collector at this point in life, I have an semi-automatic 12 gauge, a semi-automatic pistol, and a bolt action rifle... Now I just need a good bow.

With just those options, I would take bigger and slower. I have shot a lot of deer with a .270 Winchester in my life and while it killed the crap out of them, it was common for the bullet to stop under the hide on the far side and not pass through. A .270 hole going in and no exit hole can make for a tough tracking job if they ran. We tried changing from 130 grain cup and core bullets to 150 grain Nosler Partitions but still most of the time they stopped under the hide on the far side. They did hold together much better. Slower and heavier tends to penetrate better under Local hunting distances. I have friends in Wisconsin and they all use a .308. Those are big deer and they got complete pass through most of the time. Distances are typically under 100 yards. Don’t remember if they shot 165 or 180 grain bullets.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

I’m a 300 Win Mag guy too, but the 300 PRC is it’s equal in every way and it’s better in most areas. There’s nothing a 180 grain bullet can do that a 212 grain bullet can’t do. I’ll agree that there is a ton more variety and availability in 300 WM ammo, but that 212 grain ELD-X out of a 300 PRC is every bit the killer that a 180 grain bullet is and then some.

Thanks for the info. Perhaps I have been misinformed. I have never shot a 300PRC but expect that it will punish the shooter more than the 300wm. I am getting to the age when before too long I will be wanting to reduce those loads by a few grains. That ELD X is a very accurate bullet. For elk sized game my experience tells me to stick with bonded bullets no matter what grain size. Federal Trophy Bonded Tip and Nosler Accubond are the ones I depend on. There are other good ones. Those cup and core bullets can come apart if you happen to hit a big shoulder bone. My 300 wm’s all have a 1-10 or 1-11 twist. I think the PRC has a 1-8 twist so it definitely needs a bigger bullet to stabilize. Hopefully I will get an opportunity to try out a PRC one of these days. I am all set up to hand load for the Win Mag so I think I will stick with it. Got a good supply of bullets, powder, etc. I know several people that call Wyoming home and all of them shoot a 300wm except one Outfitter that carries a .338 Lapua. If a hunter has to leave an elk overnight he always goes with the group to retrieve it the next morning. Those Grizzlies are not usually very happy about giving up their easy meal. This is fun stuff!

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

I have a 45-70 (H&R), 35 Whalen (CVA), 30-06 (Browning), 270 (Remington)and a 308 (Tikka). All have killed white tailed deer.

The 270 was my first rifle that got me through my teenage years. The 30-06 has been my go to rifle for about 30 years and the 35 is just a bad mfer on both ends.

I just got the 308 at the first of the year and it went 2-2 shooting a 150 gr Hornady. Both deer dropped in tracks. Both shot in neck a 9 point at 15 yards (no exit hole) and doe at 75 yards. She flopped around for several minutes. With that being said, I’m not really satisfied with that round. I’ve always liked a heavier bullet. Does anyone else have a stainless Tikka? What round does it shoot the best?

I have a Sako A7 300wm with a stainless fluted barrel. It is the same barrel that is used on Tikka. Made in the same factory. I have shot factory Federal Trophy Bonded Tip 180, hand loaded Nosler Accubond 180, and hand loaded Sierra Game King 180. All shoot well under a minute as long as I am having a good day and don’t let the barrel get hot. If it gets hot the groups open up real quick.

 

[40mikemike]

Thanks for the info. Perhaps I have been misinformed. I have never shot a 300PRC but expect that it will punish the shooter more than the 300wm. I am getting to the age when before too long I will be wanting to reduce those loads by a few grains. That ELD X is a very accurate bullet. For elk sized game my experience tells me to stick with bonded bullets no matter what grain size. Federal Trophy Bonded Tip and Nosler Accubond are the ones I depend on. There are other good ones. Those cup and core bullets can come apart if you happen to hit a big shoulder bone. My 300 wm’s all have a 1-10 or 1-11 twist. I think the PRC has a 1-8 twist so it definitely needs a bigger bullet to stabilize. Hopefully I will get an opportunity to try out a PRC one of these days. I am all set up to hand load for the Win Mag so I think I will stick with it. Got a good supply of bullets, powder, etc. I know several people that call Wyoming home and all of them shoot a 300wm except one Outfitter that carries a .338 Lapua. If a hunter has to leave an elk overnight he always goes with the group to retrieve it the next morning. Those Grizzlies are not usually very happy about giving up their easy meal. This is fun stuff!

I’ve got a Fierce Carbon Rival and a Ruger No. 1 in 300 Win Mag. I agree with you on bonded bullets or even solid copper bullets for big, tough game like elk and bear. The Nosler Accubond is a great bullet for those animals.

The 300 PRC I had was a Browning X-Bolt and recoil was no worse than 300 Win Mag. The rifle was extremely accurate and I got rid of it because that 26” barrel was just too long with a suppressor screwed on the end of it, AND I was already set up so heavy with 300 Win Mag. Performance between the two was so close in terms of a hunting rifle that I just couldn’t justify owning both.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

I’ve got a Fierce Carbon Rival and a Ruger No. 1 in 300 Win Mag. I agree with you on bonded bullets or even solid copper bullets for big, tough game like elk and bear. The Nosler Accubond is a great bullet for those animals.

The 300 PRC I had was a Browning X-Bolt and recoil was no worse than 300 Win Mag. The rifle was extremely accurate and I got rid of it because that 26” barrel was just too long with a suppressor screwed on the end of it, AND I was already set up so heavy with 300 Win Mag. Performance between the two was so close in terms of a hunting rifle that I just couldn’t justify owning both.

How do you like that Fierce Carbon Fury? I have looked that rifle and the Christensen Ridgeline. My son has a Ridgeline and it is a tack driver. I am on the verge of ordering one.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Don't want to start a cartridge argument on here, but maybe I kind of do.**

Seriously. Where do we all stand on the ballistics argument of a hunting round. Do you care more about the diameter of the round, weight, the energy at impact, velocity, or some combination. For example.

Assuming accuracy and cost are the same, with factory ammo of a good hunting bullet which of the 2 below is a more powerful hunting round for deer at 300 yards in your opinion. (This is from Sportsman's Warehouse website, was just an easy place to pull data for the examples.)

.308 Winchester 165 grain @ 300 yards 2116 ft/s velocity and 1640 ft-lbs energy @ impact
or
.270 WSM 145 grain @ 300 yards 2575 ft/s velocity and 2136 ft-lbs energy @ impact

So the debate is what is going to have better killing power in case you hit a shoulder or something. Do we want a heavier bullet with a bigger diameter or faster bullet with more energy at impact. Of course you have to have a bullet that expands properly to take advantage of either.

I guess I have always thought the bigger caliber was more critical and never really questioned it, but over the last few years reading and learning the greater energy actually makes more sense now. I read somewhere in a perfect world you want a bullet that expands upon impact and goes all the way to the skin on the other side of the game without punching through the hide to make sure all of the energy is transferred into target. Energy is wasted if we get a through and through.

Anyhow, if you go with the the 1000 ft-lbs of energy guideline to ethically take white tail, both of these options are good at 300 yards, but if you take out to 500 yards the .308 is barely making it past 1000 ft-lbs and the .270 WSM still above the 1640 ft-lbs the .308 has at 300 yards.

I guess count me in on team trust the scie.... err better say physics and give me the .270 WSM for the win on power. What about the rest of you knuckleheads?

OT here, but related. This is not a political post.

I think most of us understand that this country is headed to more of a socialist/bigger government model and that train has left the station and isn't coming back. Not saying RDS or DT can't win in 2024, but longer term, 20-30-40 years down the road, this will be a different country. So my conspiracy theory is that the government will never be able to ban/control firearms in this country as there are tens (hundreds?) of millions "off the radar," however, they can control ammo, by making it harder to get, more expensive, requiring permits, etc. (including reloading supplies). So when buying a rifle think about your kids and grandkids 50 years from now. If you buy an uncommon caliber (that will likely far outshoot a 30.06) that requires expensive and hard-to-find ammo in today's market, think about your kids 50 years from now. They may never be able to find that ammo. Buy a 30.06, with cheap and plentiful ammo and you can stock up on ammo over the next 10-20 years and that may be enough to last through your grandkid's lifetimes. When my boys started hunting I could have bought them any caliber, but I got them 30.06s (just like dad's) to keep us all on the same ammo so I can stock up on it for the rest of my life.

 

[idog]

I like my .280. its basically a 7mm in a 30-06 case. The ballistics are better than both and really excel for handloaders which I don’t do. I get the benefits of both out of one gun.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

I like my .280. its basically a 7mm in a 30-06 case. The ballistics are better than both and really excel for handloaders which I don’t do. I get the benefits of both out of one gun.

You can take that .280 and ream it to an Ackley Improved chamber. Use the same brass and turn it into a 7 mag with less recoil and powder.

 

[Joe Schmedlap]

OT here, but related. This is not a political post.

I think most of us understand that this country is headed to more of a socialist/bigger government model and that train has left the station and isn't coming back. Not saying RDS or DT can't win in 2024, but longer term, 20-30-40 years down the road, this will be a different country. So my conspiracy theory is that the government will never be able to ban/control firearms in this country as there are tens (hundreds?) of millions "off the radar," however, they can control ammo, by making it harder to get, more expensive, requiring permits, etc. (including reloading supplies). So when buying a rifle think about your kids and grandkids 50 years from now. If you buy an uncommon caliber (that will likely far outshoot a 30.06) that requires expensive and hard-to-find ammo in today's market, think about your kids 50 years from now. They may never be able to find that ammo. Buy a 30.06, with cheap and plentiful ammo and you can stock up on ammo over the next 10-20 years and that may be enough to last through your grandkid's lifetimes. When my boys started hunting I could have bought them any caliber, but I got them 30.06s (just like dad's) to keep us all on the same ammo so I can stock up on it for the rest of my life.

The same argument also supports .308. Between the two, I’d lean toward 30-06 for sheer versatility, but if you want a short action rifle with less recoil with 90% of the capability, .308 is there.

1. What will you hunt?
2. How far will you shoot?
3. Ammo availability & variety
4. Recoil sensitivity or lack thereof

those are all important factors, and ammo availability probably trumps them all

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

The same argument also supports .308. Between the two, I’d lean toward 30-06 for sheer versatility, but if you want a short action rifle with less recoil with 90% of the capability, .308 is there.

1. What will you hunt?
2. How far will you shoot?
3. Ammo availability & variety
4. Recoil sensitivity or lack thereof

those are all important factors, and ammo availability probably trumps them all

I was just using a 30.06 as an example. .308, .270, .243, etc., any are fine, but think about stock piling ammo for your grandkids, they may not be able to buy it. It is easier to stockpile ammo for a weapon that shoots cheaper/common/more available ammo. Your grandkids will not grow up in the same country as you did.

If you want to have an uncommon caliber, that fine, but also have a good basic rifle, with a lot of ammo to hand down your family line.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

Don't want to start a cartridge argument on here, but maybe I kind of do.**

Seriously. Where do we all stand on the ballistics argument of a hunting round. Do you care more about the diameter of the round, weight, the energy at impact, velocity, or some combination. For example.

Assuming accuracy and cost are the same, with factory ammo of a good hunting bullet which of the 2 below is a more powerful hunting round for deer at 300 yards in your opinion. (This is from Sportsman's Warehouse website, was just an easy place to pull data for the examples.)

.308 Winchester 165 grain @ 300 yards 2116 ft/s velocity and 1640 ft-lbs energy @ impact
or
.270 WSM 145 grain @ 300 yards 2575 ft/s velocity and 2136 ft-lbs energy @ impact

So the debate is what is going to have better killing power in case you hit a shoulder or something. Do we want a heavier bullet with a bigger diameter or faster bullet with more energy at impact. Of course you have to have a bullet that expands properly to take advantage of either.

I guess I have always thought the bigger caliber was more critical and never really questioned it, but over the last few years reading and learning the greater energy actually makes more sense now. I read somewhere in a perfect world you want a bullet that expands upon impact and goes all the way to the skin on the other side of the game without punching through the hide to make sure all of the energy is transferred into target. Energy is wasted if we get a through and through.

Anyhow, if you go with the the 1000 ft-lbs of energy guideline to ethically take white tail, both of these options are good at 300 yards, but if you take out to 500 yards the .308 is barely making it past 1000 ft-lbs and the .270 WSM still above the 1640 ft-lbs the .308 has at 300 yards.

I guess count me in on team trust the scie.... err better say physics and give me the .270 WSM for the win on power. What about the rest of you knuckleheads?

I want a bullet that doesn't break apart if it hits bone. So, that's why I use Federal Trophy Bonded Tip. Caliber doesn't matter for most of us in MS. I've killed more deer with my .243 than I have with all my other rifles. I own and have killed deer with a .280, .308, .25-06, .30-30, and a .45 cal black powder rifle. Hell, I've probably killed as many deer with black powder as I have a .243. I don't get into what the ballistics and all that crap is. I chose a bullet with definitive proof that it kicks ***. We live in Mississippi. 90% of hunters can kill their deer with a 12ga or a bow. We ain't shooting mountain goat from 300 yards away. Ballistics don't matter when you're sitting in a box stand, hunting a 3-4 acre food plot. Getting a good bullet that works after impact is more important to me. Hell, honestly, getting a damn good scope and mounts is more important than anything to be honest.

 

[40mikemike]

How do you like that Fierce Carbon Fury? I have looked that rifle and the Christensen Ridgeline. My son has a Ridgeline and it is a tack driver. I am on the verge of ordering one.

Mine is a Rival. The Fury is a Sako clone. The Rival is a Remington 700 clone. I’ve seen a bunch of issues with Christensen rifles and that steered me away from them. I’ve also read of several issues with the Carbon Rivals, so take that for what it is worth. I’ve had zero issues with mine so far.

 

[Wizard.sixpack]

Don't want to start a cartridge argument on here, but maybe I kind of do.**

Seriously. Where do we all stand on the ballistics argument of a hunting round. Do you care more about the diameter of the round, weight, the energy at impact, velocity, or some combination. For example.

Assuming accuracy and cost are the same, with factory ammo of a good hunting bullet which of the 2 below is a more powerful hunting round for deer at 300 yards in your opinion. (This is from Sportsman's Warehouse website, was just an easy place to pull data for the examples.)

.308 Winchester 165 grain @ 300 yards 2116 ft/s velocity and 1640 ft-lbs energy @ impact
or
.270 WSM 145 grain @ 300 yards 2575 ft/s velocity and 2136 ft-lbs energy @ impact

So the debate is what is going to have better killing power in case you hit a shoulder or something. Do we want a heavier bullet with a bigger diameter or faster bullet with more energy at impact. Of course you have to have a bullet that expands properly to take advantage of either.

I guess I have always thought the bigger caliber was more critical and never really questioned it, but over the last few years reading and learning the greater energy actually makes more sense now. I read somewhere in a perfect world you want a bullet that expands upon impact and goes all the way to the skin on the other side of the game without punching through the hide to make sure all of the energy is transferred into target. Energy is wasted if we get a through and through.

Anyhow, if you go with the the 1000 ft-lbs of energy guideline to ethically take white tail, both of these options are good at 300 yards, but if you take out to 500 yards the .308 is barely making it past 1000 ft-lbs and the .270 WSM still above the 1640 ft-lbs the .308 has at 300 yards.

I guess count me in on team trust the scie.... err better say physics and give me the .270 WSM for the win on power. What about the rest of you knuckleheads?

I shoot 180 gr PowerPoints in my Browning BLR 308 lever. It's more accurate than any other I've tried and the deer ain't going anywhere when I hit them.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

The same argument also supports .308. Between the two, I’d lean toward 30-06 for sheer versatility, but if you want a short action rifle with less recoil with 90% of the capability, .308 is there.

1. What will you hunt?
2. How far will you shoot?
3. Ammo availability & variety
4. Recoil sensitivity or lack thereof

those are all important factors, and ammo availability probably trumps them all

For those that have been thinking about getting into reloading I strongly recommend it if you are an individual that is focused, responsible, and detail oriented. It’s actually a very enjoyable hobby and not really that hard. I had been casually involved with it for several years but when it kind of hit the fan about 3-4 years ago I got serious about it. Components are still very hard to get in some cases and it all cost more than it used too but it can put you in control of your own destiny from an ammo perspective. If you are not a focused, detailed type person get someone else to load for you. It is not a task to be taken lightly. It is a safe hobby when done carefully and correctly but being careless is a very bad idea. Find someone that you know to help you get started and Google is your friend. Lots of good info out there. Reading about loading ammo is a lot better than watching 90 percent of the crap that is on TV these days.

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

With just those options, I would take bigger and slower. I have shot a lot of deer with a .270 Winchester in my life and while it killed the crap out of them, it was common for the bullet to stop under the hide on the far side and not pass through. A .270 hole going in and no exit hole can make for a tough tracking job if they ran. We tried changing from 130 grain cup and core bullets to 150 grain Nosler Partitions but still most of the time they stopped under the hide on the far side. They did hold together much better. Slower and heavier tends to penetrate better under Local hunting distances. I have friends in Wisconsin and they all use a .308. Those are big deer and they got complete pass through most of the time. Distances are typically under 100 yards. Don’t remember if they shot 165 or 180 grain bullets.

My experience with 270 and 308 are identical

 

[40mikemike]

Honestly, I’ve always thought the sweet spot for most people landed somewhere right in the middle. Something like a 6.5x55, 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08 or the like pushes a medium caliber bullet at moderate speeds with very little recoil. I prefer the 6.5x55 to almost anything, but the 6.5 Creedmoor is its ballistic twin with a LOT more factory ammo options and it’s not going anywhere. Pick the right bullet and you’ll never be under-gunned with a 6.5 CM on deer/black bear sized animals. 140 Nosler Accubonds, 140 Sierra Game Kings or any of the solid copper options will give enough penetration while still expanding reliably. All that said, if I was stuck with one hunting rifle for the rest of my life it would be chambered in 308, 30-06 or 300 Win Mag because I like shooting deer and pigs at longer distances at times and I’d like to go kill an elk or two before I die.

 

[MStateU]

Just in case anyone is thinking they need something that will kick you teeth out to go out west. I’ve shot 2 elk with my 30-06 shooting 180 grain bullet. One broadside and it went maybe 15 yards. One dead on in the chest at 175 yards and it pinwheeled and fell in it’s tracks.

It’s plenty.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Just in case anyone is thinking they need something that will kick you teeth out to go out west. I’ve shot 2 elk with my 30-06 shooting 180 grain bullet. One broadside and it went maybe 15 yards. One dead on in the chest at 175 yards and it pinwheeled and fell in it’s tracks.

It’s plenty.

But what do I need if I’m gonna shoot them in the gut and want them to drop within 10 yards? Some of y’all put to much emphasis on shot placement.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

But what do I need if I’m gonna shoot them in the gut and want them to drop within 10 yards? Some of y’all put to much emphasis on shot placement.

I do enjoy the MS Whitetail pages on FB, a bro will comment on how h's got his weapon driving tacks at 400 yards and the next post is he calling for dogs to help find a wounded deer.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Just in case anyone is thinking they need something that will kick you teeth out to go out west. I’ve shot 2 elk with my 30-06 shooting 180 grain bullet. One broadside and it went maybe 15 yards. One dead on in the chest at 175 yards and it pinwheeled and fell in it’s tracks.

It’s plenty.

For sure. A 30-06 is a great weapon inside 500 yards and it's not until you get past that it finally starts fading.We kill 30% of our elk with a bow in my unit. And it would be rare to get a shot further than 100 yards due to all the trees. So in that mindset, a 12 gauge rifled barrel would be pretty damn good too.


Yet there are some areas where even the old 30-06 is lacking. If I am ever lucky enough to draw a bighorn sheep tag, I plan on putting in serious range time the summer before to be ready to go up to 750 yards. I see those 17ers when we go fishing/rafting and there is no cutting them off for a closer shot in a lot of places. Its a lot of shooting across the canyon and picking them up by at the bottom, because you aren't getting to them unless you are spiderman.

Our most common hunting cartridge out here is probably the .300 WM. It's the 30-06 of the west these days. Lots of ammo on the shelves. 30-06 and .270 are really common too and it's hard to guess which would be 2nd place. Lots of 6.5 creedmore as well, but it's mixed between target and hunting.

All that said, if you are coming east to west. Talk to your guide. A guide I know told me his hunter is his gun. He will talk to you long before you ever come out about your physical and shooting capabilities and take you to a spot that will let you kill your game vs take you to a place that requires too much distance in shooting or hiking.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

But what do I need if I’m gonna shoot them in the gut and want them to drop within 10 yards? Some of y’all put to much emphasis on shot placement.

You can definitely kill elk with a 06 or 270 type caliber. The bonded bullets available today really improve their capabilities. Old timers like myself grew up reading about the hunting adventures of the famous Jack O’Connor. His favorite elk rifle was the .270. The bigger boomers are still recommended by most out West. Shot distances can be a bit long. The terrain and lack of air can prevent a stalk to reduce the distance. Portions of the West are absolutely covered up with Grizzlies these days and since they are still protected they have lost their natural fear of man. Gun shots are just like ringing the dinner bell. In NW Wyoming they tend to head toward gun shots knowing that a free meal is available. Bear spray and a big rifle are highly recommended. Three of us hunted just South of Yellowstone last fall and killed 3 nice elk. All 3 kills were made between 300 and 400 yards. Once the elk is on the ground, the goal is to quarter him as quickly as possibly, load him on a couple of back mules and get out of there. Someone always stands guard while this is going on. It can get a bit tense. A number of years ago I killed elk on Terrace Mountain in the Teton Wilderness. In 2018 a guide was killed by a Grizzly while retrieving an elk in almost the exact same spot where I killed mine. The guides all carry something in the .300 or .338 family for protection. There are confrontations with the grizzlies all the time fortunately the guides are pretty savvy in dealing with them. Hunting camps keep dogs and have a mandatory battery powered electric fence surrounding the camp. I have a photo of where a grizzly was clawing a tree literally 20 feet from our tent this year. On a previous trip, they visited our camp every single night. No Grizzlies in Colorado, New Mexico, and some other good elk areas, however NW Wyoming and parts of Montana have serious issues with them. A few in Idaho too. The Management of the bears and wolves is pretty much like everything else that the federal government manages. It’s totally 17ed up. Decisions being made by some suit in Washington. They won’t listen to the locals that live there. You want a big rifle if you hunt in those areas. No question about it.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

. No Grizzlies in Colorado, New Mexico, and some other good elk areas, however NW Wyoming and parts of Montana have serious issues with them. A few in Idaho too. The Management of the bears and wolves is pretty much like everything else that the federal government manages. It’s totally 17ed up. Decisions being made by some suit in Washington. They won’t listen to the locals that live there. You want a big rifle if you hunt in those areas. No question about it.

Funny you mention this... Watching the BB red last night the Governor is giving USFWS 60 days before he sues them over grizzly management.

Saw a couple grizzlies in Montana this summer. It gets the blood pressure up for sure, luckily don't have them in my area. We do have a lot of wolves. They're getting out of control and Fish and Game plans on taking out 60% of them in the state. They're alpha predators and are destroying elk and other populations. They're already taking livestock and it's a matter of time before they start coming into the valleys after pets and people.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

Funny you mention this... Watching the BB red last night the Governor is giving USFWS 60 days before he sues them over grizzly management.

Saw a couple grizzlies in Montana this summer. It gets the blood pressure up for sure, luckily don't have them in my area. We do have a lot of wolves. They're getting out of control and Fish and Game plans on taking out 60% of them in the state. They're alpha predators and are destroying elk and other populations. They're already taking livestock and it's a matter of time before they start coming into the valleys after pets and people.

They have destroyed the moose population in parts of Wyoming. We see them all the time out there.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

Just for those that might be skeptical, here is a photo of the grizzly claw marks on a tree behind our tent last fall. He came by the night after we brought in a couple of elk which were on the meat pole. The 300 stays right beside the sleeping bag! We did not see him and slept through his visit.