OT: Longtimefan Strike
- Thread starter T-TownDawgg
- Start date
Union boss knows there is an election in 30 days.
The car industry had to deal with robots and automation. Whether they like it or not, it's coming.
Literally every industry has had to deal with adjusting to technology improvements and automation of some kind. These guys held everyone by the balls because they didn’t like it.
Yep learn to fix the technology or use it. Manual labor jobs change all the time. Amount electronics technicians have etc etc
Croom got his 5 years to gitter done. So did Rockey. That's fair in my opinion. I'm more than willing to give Lebby at least 3 years....maybe more if he can show positive improvement. We just cannot continue to fire coaches every one or two years and expect to attract a really good coach.
On the other hand AI will never wire your house, install/fix your ac, be a plumber etc but AI will diagnosis illness, write legal briefs, and design technology. When AI was first being developed I thought it might do away with blue collar jobs but now I think that white collar jobs will be more impacted by AI.
As much as John Deere wants to tout it, it’s not replacing tractor drivers either.
Well, since they kicked the canned on the road a bit, I do hope that the dock workers are able to negotiate pay that is incentivizing and competitive both now and in the future, while also accepting the reality that the pay they are demanding is unrealistic.
And I hope they are able to create an agreement that details a timeline for implementing automation and details workers protection levels.
Including cross training and guarantees that a % of current workers will then be employed to maintain/repair equipment would be good.
5 years- X max changes to automation and Z max possible reduction in staff.
10 years- X max changes to automation and Z max possible reduction in staff.
And I hope they are able to create an agreement that details a timeline for implementing automation and details workers protection levels.
Including cross training and guarantees that a % of current workers will then be employed to maintain/repair equipment would be good.
5 years- X max changes to automation and Z max possible reduction in staff.
10 years- X max changes to automation and Z max possible reduction in staff.
First you can't get it if you don't ask for it. Second, I think they know it's unrealistic, but you can never go back up the mountain in negotiations, but you can always come down. In any negotiation you start really high even if you know it will not happen.
Surely they're close though, right? I mean, maybe not close as in a year or two because the risk of having a large, million dollar piece of equipment only subject to remote control if something goes wrong is a hard risk to swallow and that last few percent of improvement is going to be hard to achieve, but surely they can already run a tractor for a long time autonomously at this point?
100% agree.
So much has been made about the high pay demand, but to your point, you can’t ever ask for more after you offer up that initial number.
with that said, I can see how some Goodwill could be lost by demanding more. But I am sure the union took that into account… It’s not like this is their first time negotiating a contract or dealing with PR.
He knew that before the strike. The question is what kind of promises he received from Kamala's team as far as support in order to delay the strike. I might would have deal with it now than risk dealing with it next quarter when they have an administration that made promises to them and isn't facing any reelection for almost four years.
Plus I think at this point we should really be able to break the union and mob ties. Maybe not at every local, but at least at the 17ing national level and them 17ing things up might would be the impetus to get that done.
I think the biggest hold up will be automation. They might get protection in this contract but when the next collective bargaining comes up, they may not. Technolgy is great and more efficient, but it will cost jobs eventually.
I am glad I can retire at any time with my define benefit plan because I could be replaced by AI. Once they solve the power that it takes to run it issue and it cost less than paying a human. My job could be gone. I only need about three more years. I think I can get there first.
Possible, but without white collar jobs, you may not have a market for electricans/HVAC/plumbers because no one can afford them. Who knows.
I honestly don't think jobs will go away overall, I think society will just get faster and move closer to its impending doom. But hey I did see a video where some folks are trying to dump all our trash in the Mariana Trench, which could hold enough to last us like 2,000 years.
Guess we need to pay these longshoremen
I dont' know. I think they had too much influence from people in areas used to the mob dictating their national strategy. The outrageous pay hikes weren't that big of a deal; a little tone deaf, but depending on the raises they've gotten during the last 4 years of inflation, and considering it's over 6 years, it's very possible they needed to start at at least a 50% payraise to leave them any negotiating room; if the union leadership needs to make outrageous demands to satisfy their voters, whatever. But the fact that they let their national head go on air with his mobster tactics makes me think they weren't taking basic things into account, like how much goodwill a 77% initial ask would cost them.
Fact check: The average dock worker salary today is 120k and many of them make up to 200k annually.
The jobs are more important than these workers. We either have efficiency at ports using automation or we protect people, and not just jobs, and make Americans pay more for a host of products to keep some highly paid, politically powerful people employed. Self-checkout at stores works fine for me.
Most likely we'll have a temporary hike in prices, to cover the larger salaries and investment in automation, then it eventually comes down and all these guys either adapt or hit the road. Their jobs will get easier but also much less valuable.
I thought libs were all about progress?
Not automating will eventually be terrible for the USA and its citizens if everyone else is automating. And they are.
At this point you just need to realize glfr generally just takes the opposite stance of everything a conservative posts here, even if he may agree somewhat, basically to be argumentative. Realizing this will head off the urge to respond to him and create 500 page-long threads.
It's similar to dealing with......you.
The union didn't see a reason to go to the landmass between New Orleans and Mobile.
1- 'progressive' as a political term is not the same as blindly supporting any and all technological automation.
You know this- don't be obtuse.
2- I flat out state, in this thread, that I think the union should agree to automation in stages. This makes the whole point of your post totally pointless.
Clarification check: Is that average pay on a per 40hr week basis, or is it more?
If I worked 80 hours every week with 1.5x OT, I would be scrooge mcducking it too.
Base salary range is 80k to 140k at regular time and up to 200k with OT. Many work OT because they want to and fought for that right in previous labor negotiations.
An autonomous tractor can do remedial tasks but even something like simply plowing or disking a field would be a lot for it. And I won’t go into great detail but there’s so many things you need to have human eyes on that it simply can’t do and for it to overcome a human driver the disk or implement would have to have a million sensors on it.
How much do dockworkers make? Here is the pay raise they secured in tentative new deal.
Thousands of East and Gulf Coast dockworkers went on strike demanding higher pay. Here are the wage increases they secured.
www.cbsnews.com
Are the numbers above incorrect?
The numbers cited in the article show full time pay ranges from $41,600 to $81,820.
You are saying the base pay is the same as what the article says they top out at.
If you have a reference for correct numbers, post it up. That'd be interesting to see why reports have such different pay numbers.
Just a complete guess but I suspect you have some local unions in high priced areas that have negotiated a payrate that is some multiple of the national rate. Union members are places like Gulfport and Mobile probably get the nationally rate. Workers in major ports located in high cost of living areas in the northeast probably get more, and I'm guessing those $80k to $140k numbers are for those types of ports, probably the single highest paying port. No knowledge, I'm just assuming workers in Mobile aren't working on the same pay scale as workers in New York.How much do dockworkers make? Here is the pay raise they secured in tentative new deal.
Thousands of East and Gulf Coast dockworkers went on strike demanding higher pay. Here are the wage increases they secured.
Are the numbers above incorrect?
The numbers cited in the article show full time pay ranges from $41,600 to $81,820.
You are saying the base pay is the same as what the article says they top out at.
If you have a reference for correct numbers, post it up. That'd be interesting to see why reports have such different pay numbers.
That, or it was just a game of telephone where the $80k to $140k after overtime in one article got turned into base pay in another, and then somebody wagged an overtime amount on top of that.
I'm citing what I heard in a news story of CNN of all places. The hourly rate is much higher than you cite for the union workers - north of 40/hr is their minimum pay.How much do dockworkers make? Here is the pay raise they secured in tentative new deal.
Thousands of East and Gulf Coast dockworkers went on strike demanding higher pay. Here are the wage increases they secured.
Are the numbers above incorrect?
The numbers cited in the article show full time pay ranges from $41,600 to $81,820.
You are saying the base pay is the same as what the article says they top out at.
If you have a reference for correct numbers, post it up. That'd be interesting to see why reports have such different pay numbers.
Everything I have read refers to ILA workers...who are the Union workers that went on strike. Documentation shows the ILA payscale. ILA spokespeople have cited the same payscale.
Below are a couple other examples.
Again- if you have actual info that shows the ILA payscale cited in articles and by ILA spokespeople is wrong, then post it.
If you dont, then at what point will you accept that maybe your fact check isnt a fact? Will the 2 examples below be enough? Do you need 4 more after that? Will you never say that your fact check was both incorrect and misleading(due to, you know, overtime needing to exist to reach the cited numbers)?
I am all for accuracy in reporting and accuracy in economic narratives like worker strikes, so I would genuinely appreciate legitimate info that supports your fact check claim.
One of the key reasons behind the current strike is the wage disparity between East Coast dockworkers and their West Coast counterparts. ILA workers earn significantly less. According to the contract that expired on Monday, ILA dockworkers started at $20 per hour, with pay rising to $24.75 after two years, $31.90 after three, and capping at $39 for those with at least six years on the job.
How much do port workers make? A look at salaries amid ongoing port strike
“We’re prepared to stay on strike for as long as it takes to secure the wages and protections our members deserve.”www.lohud.com
Before the strike, Johnnie Dixon, president of the Fort Lauderdale chapter of the ILA, told CBS News Miami that the union's demands are justified given the soaring prices consumers have faced.
"Our members top out at $39 (per hour). We are looking for a 77%, close to 77% increase over the next seven years. When you look at the cost of inflation that's more than reasonable," he said at the time.
How much do dockworkers make? Here is the pay raise they secured in tentative new deal.
Thousands of East and Gulf Coast dockworkers went on strike demanding higher pay. Here are the wage increases they secured.www.aol.com
I learned from the best, goat. You.
And you are so dumb you don't realize you just did what you said I shouldn't do.
No matter the rate, I strongly feel I know who will pay for it. I wonder how close to the wall we are that we're running toward.
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