OT: "Run of the mill white kids"

[18IsTheMan]

While lauding the diversity of her team, the Wisconsin women's basketball coach, who is African American, noted the various ethnicities represented on the roster and then commented they also had all the "run of the mill white kids."

What would the fallout be if a white coach referred to "run of the mill black kids" on the team?

 

[rockingamecock]

Double standards. Kind of like when a black person can call another black the "n" word but God forbid that whites use it.

 

[KingWard]

Race is the prickliest issue there is in America and it always will be. The most damnable people in American history are those who brought slavery here and/or proliferated it.

It's not about having people of color here, either; it's about how their citizenship came about. Diversity through normal immigration would have made all the difference socially, culturally, and in every other way that matters.

Unfortunately, we have leaders now who are making the same glaring mistakes regarding immigration, but in a different way. Their folly will also have perpetual negative repercussions that should never have been visited upon the United States.

 

[18IsTheMan]

The most damnable people in American history are those who brought slavery here and/or proliferated it.

It has always perplexed me that people attribute slavery here explicitly to America, as if America somehow invented slavery. Slavery had existed in every culture since the dawn of time. Slavery was here long before America was a thing. It was Europeans who first imported slavery. Not Americans. Becoming a nation in 1776 and abolishing slavery in 1865, we dealt with slavery as a nation for 89 years. That's 89 years too long, of course, but it pales in comparison to how long other countries wrestled with the issue.

Europeans gave us slavery. America rightly and justly abolished slavery in 89 years, which is far faster than any other country ever dealt with it.

 

[KingWard]

It has always perplexed me that people attribute slavery here explicitly to America, as if America somehow invented slavery. Slavery had existed in every culture since the dawn of time. Slavery was here long before America was a thing. It was Europeans who first imported slavery. Not Americans. Becoming a nation in 1776 and abolishing slavery in 1865, we dealt with slavery as a nation for 89 years. That's 89 years too long, of course, but it pales in comparison to how long other countries wrestled with the issue.

Europeans gave us slavery. America rightly and justly abolished slavery in 89 years, which is far faster than any other country ever dealt with it.

It was already too late, and America is where I live. Historical missteps elsewhere, while unfortunate, disturb me far less. The War Between the States and its ripple effects speak for themselves.

 

[18IsTheMan]

It was already too late.

Perhaps. The simple reality, however, is that slavery was brought here by Europeans long, long, long, long before there was ever the vaguest idea of creating a new nation here.

Slavery was a terrible, horrible, wicked institution, but not the uniquely American institution it is often portrayed to be.

Besides that, native American engaged in slavery themselves with members of other tribes.

 

[KingWard]

Perhaps. The simple reality, however, is that slavery was brought here by Europeans long, long, long, long before there was ever the vaguest idea of creating a new nation here.

Slavery was a terrible, horrible, wicked institution, but not the uniquely American institution it is often portrayed to be.

Besides that, native American engaged in slavery themselves with members of other tribes.

If the sellers were odious, the buyers were more so. It took resident buyers to proliferate the institution.

 

[18IsTheMan]

If the sellers were odious, the buyers were more so. It took resident buyers to proliferate the institution.

Buyers and sellers were Europeans alike. We were a British a colony when slavery started here. No way around that.

 

[KingWard]

Buyers and sellers were Europeans alike. We were a British a colony when slavery started here. No way around that.

That they were colonists and not American citizens is a technically. Colonists came here to make this their home. The slaveholders messed up their home, our home. Their coming here wasn't an excursion, it was a relocation.

 

[18IsTheMan]

That they were colonists and not American citizens is a technically. Colonists came here to make this their home. The slaveholders messed up their home, our home. Their coming here wasn't an excursion, it was a relocation.

A pretty large technicality.

 

[Big JC]

Slavery has existed and will continue to exist as long as humans are on Earth. Every culture on every continent practiced slavery. In the early 1800's 3/4 of all humans on Earth lived in some sort of involuntary servitude. Slavery was no more or less evil prior to 1865 than it is today. Like most things involving humans, slavery was an economic issue. Owning slaves was a necessity for operating a large agricultural venture, slave owners would have gladly given up their slaves if an alternative existed for cultivating the crops the economy depended on. The yeoman farmers of the Northeast and Midwest did not have large scale farms that required large workforces so slavery made no economic sense in that region. The farmer and his family could tend to the land and the crops. The Southern plantation owner did not have that option and there weren't enough people to hire in the rural South to supply the workforce needed. Slavery was the legal, logical answer to the labor needs of the South.

British slavery ended in 1838 so it isn't like the US was some long term holdout on the institution. It should be added that British slavery didn't end until slave owners were compensated by the govt for the value of their lost slaves, another example of slavery being a function of economics and not any sort of intentional "evil".

If the Southern states had not seceded, slavery in the US would have likely continued merrily on until mechanical agricultural equipment was invented that would have made the need for slaves unnecessary. At that point, slave owners would have gladly freed their slaves since mechanical equipment would not have required housing, clothing, feeding and medical care 24/7/365.

 

[winloseortie]

It has always perplexed me that people attribute slavery here explicitly to America, as if America somehow invented slavery. Slavery had existed in every culture since the dawn of time. Slavery was here long before America was a thing. It was Europeans who first imported slavery. Not Americans. Becoming a nation in 1776 and abolishing slavery in 1865, we dealt with slavery as a nation for 89 years. That's 89 years too long, of course, but it pales in comparison to how long other countries wrestled with the issue.

Europeans gave us slavery. America rightly and justly abolished slavery in 89 years, which is far faster than any other country ever dealt with it.

and if your friend jumped off a cliff, I guess your momma would blame him for your stupidity in jumping right after.

 

[KingWard]

A pretty large technicality.

Actually intent makes all the difference. The residents intended to make this their homeland, irrespective of flag. The inhumane greed of the slaveowners marred it irremediably for the citizens of the nation that came to be for all time.

 

[18IsTheMan]

and if your friend jumped off a cliff, I guess your momma would blame him for your stupidity in jumping right after.

That analogy might make sense if the friend and I were connected by a rope tied around our waists.

 

[KingWard]

Slavery has existed and will continue to exist as long as humans are on Earth. Every culture on every continent practiced slavery. In the early 1800's 3/4 of all humans on Earth lived in some sort of involuntary servitude. Slavery was no more or less evil prior to 1865 than it is today. Like most things involving humans, slavery was an economic issue. Owning slaves was a necessity for operating a large agricultural venture, slave owners would have gladly given up their slaves if an alternative existed for cultivating the crops the economy depended on. The yeoman farmers of the Northeast and Midwest did not have large scale farms that required large workforces so slavery made no economic sense in that region. The farmer and his family could tend to the land and the crops. The Southern plantation owner did not have that option and there weren't enough people to hire in the rural South to supply the workforce needed. Slavery was the legal, logical answer to the labor needs of the South.

British slavery ended in 1838 so it isn't like the US was some long term holdout on the institution. It should be added that British slavery didn't end until slave owners were compensated by the govt for the value of their lost slaves, another example of slavery being a function of economics and not any sort of intentional "evil".

If the Southern states had not seceded, slavery in the US would have likely continued merrily on until mechanical agricultural equipment was invented that would have made the need for slaves unnecessary. At that point, slave owners would have gladly freed their slaves since mechanical equipment would not have required housing, clothing, feeding and medical care 24/7/365.

What matters is what happened, not what might have happened. Change the front end of a chain of events and the subsequent is likewise altered. But I suspect decades of slavery would have wrought deleterious residual effects in any case.

 

[Prestonyte]

Double standards. Kind of like when a black person can call another black the "n" word but God forbid that whites use it.

Technically, blacks can't be racists. lol

 

[18IsTheMan]

for all time.

That's a bit dramatic.

 

[Big JC]

That they were colonists and not American citizens is a technically. Colonists came here to make this their home. The slaveholders messed up their home, our home. Their coming here wasn't an excursion, it was a relocation.

The colonists were British citizens, not Americans. Colonists came here to make money more than anything else. They still considered themselves British. Any colonist who wanted to make his fortune in large scale agriculture had little choice but to purchase slaves out of economic necessity. No one was "messing up" anything at the time.

The danger of looking at history through a modern lens is that we forget that things we take for granted were unheard of back then. 100 years from now when some new energy source is powering equipment and vehicles, I'm sure some revisionist historian will declare the burning of fossil fuels to have been "evil".

 

[Tusi21!!]

AD's Email.
[email protected]

 

[Prestonyte]

Back to the OP
Why would a coach say this?
What is there to gain from that comment?

 

[18IsTheMan]

The colonists were British citizens, not Americans. Colonists came here to make money more than anything else. They still considered themselves British. Any colonist who wanted to make his fortune in large scale agriculture had little choice but to purchase slaves out of economic necessity. No one was "messing up" anything at the time.

The danger of looking at history through a modern lens is that we forget that things we take for granted were unheard of back then. 100 years from now when some new energy source is powering equipment and vehicles, I'm sure some revisionist historian will declare the burning of fossil fuels to have been "evil".

Indeed, colonists initially only desired representation in Parliament.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Back to the OP
Why would a coach say this?
What is there to gain from that comment?

I can't imagine,

As a rule of thumb, I'd say it's probably best to simply not discuss the skin color of your players.

 

[Big JC]

What matters is what happened, not what might have happened. Change the front end of a chain of events and the subsequent is likewise altered. But I suspect decades of slavery would have wrought deleterious residual effects in any case.

That can be said of anything. The past cannot be changed, the way the past is viewed can be. For people today to declare that slaveholders were evil greedy people who ruined something are engaging in revisionist history and ignoring the reality those people lived with when they were alive and making decisions based on what was acceptable at the time.

The luckiest African descended people on this planet are the descendants of black slaves in the US. If you could travel back in time and wave a magic wand and eliminate slavery in the US you would condemn millions of black people today to a life of misery in Africa as opposed to a life of opportunity in the US.

 

[KingWard]

The colonists were British citizens, not Americans. Colonists came here to make money more than anything else. They still considered themselves British. Any colonist who wanted to make his fortune in large scale agriculture had little choice but to purchase slaves out of economic necessity. No one was "messing up" anything at the time.

The danger of looking at history through a modern lens is that we forget that things we take for granted were unheard of back then. 100 years from now when some new energy source is powering equipment and vehicles, I'm sure some revisionist historian will declare the burning of fossil fuels to have been "evil".

They were messing up with ramifications only evident to posterity, but they didn't foresee those and likely wouldn't have cared. The landscape now is cratered with that evidence of error. I'm not assigning a moral judgment upon an earlier age beyond the fact that, from a humanitarian perspective, trafficking human beings would be indefensible in any age. And there were people living then who realized it as well. Theirbopinion didn't hold sway. As for the years since, never has the law of sowing and reaping been better validated.

 

[Tusi21!!]

Back to the OP
Why would a coach say this?
What is there to gain from that comment?

Racism is inherent in some.

 

[KingWard]

That can be said of anything. The past cannot be changed, the way the past is viewed can be. For people today to declare that slaveholders were evil greedy people who ruined something are engaging in revisionist history and ignoring the reality those people lived with when they were alive and making decisions based on what was acceptable at the time.

The luckiest African descended people on this planet are the descendants of black slaves in the US. If you could travel back in time and wave a magic wand and eliminate slavery in the US you would condemn millions of black people today to a life of misery in Africa as opposed to a life of opportunity in the US.

You're assuming facts not in evidence to justify an attrocity. I am not.

 

[Big JC]

Indeed, colonists initially only desired representation in Parliament.

Only about 1/3 of colonists wanted independence from England. 1/3 were staunch loyalist and the other 1/3 simply wanted to live their life and be left alone. Our govt school indoctrination would have you believe 80% of colonists rose up to throw off the yoke of tyranny of a despotic king.

 

[Prestonyte]

Racism is inherent in some.

Some can't be called racists - even if they totally are.

 

[Tusi21!!]

Some can't be called racists - even if they totally are.

They most certainly can.

 

[HillsToSea]

It has always perplexed me that people attribute slavery here explicitly to America, as if America somehow invented slavery. Slavery had existed in every culture since the dawn of time. Slavery was here long before America was a thing. It was Europeans who first imported slavery. Not Americans. Becoming a nation in 1776 and abolishing slavery in 1865, we dealt with slavery as a nation for 89 years. That's 89 years too long, of course, but it pales in comparison to how long other countries wrestled with the issue.

Europeans gave us slavery. America rightly and justly abolished slavery in 89 years, which is far faster than any other country ever dealt with it.

There is not a race or corner of the world that didn’t have it at some point

 

[18IsTheMan]

There is not a race or corner of the world that didn’t have it at some point

This is my thing. Was it terrible? Yes. Does the fact that just about everyone has done it excuse America for retaining the institution for 89 years? Absolutely not. But people treat it like it was a uniquely American invention.

 

[Tusi21!!]

This is my thing. Was it terrible? Yes. Does the fact that just about everyone has done it excuse America for retaining the institution for 89 years? Absolutely not. But people treat it like it was a uniquely American invention.

saw a map recently that laid out how many slaves were shipped to other countries. guess which country had the least.

White liberal quilt is a thing, and they have been using it for a long time.

 

[HillsToSea]

This is my thing. Was it terrible? Yes. Does the fact that just about everyone has done it excuse America for retaining the institution for 89 years? Absolutely not. But people treat it like it was a uniquely American invention.

Yes. And ” historians “ forget or deny that Africans were selling Africans

 

[18IsTheMan]

saw a map recently that laid out how many slaves were shipped to other countries. guess which country had the least.

White liberal quilt is a thing, and they have been using it for a long time.

Yes, in the big picture, the colonies and the United States were a relatively minor player. Still a player, though, which is a stain on our history. But we are presented as the creators and worst offenders, which is not the case.

To be clear, nobody is defending slavery. It was terrible, awful and a great moral sin.

 

[1vagamecock]

I have always longed for a day when people here in the UNITED States would be called American. Not White not Black not Hispanic but American.
Too many people love the division and profit from it economically and politically for that to happen though.

 

[Prestonyte]

saw a map recently that laid out how many slaves were shipped to other countries. guess which country had the least.

White liberal quilt is a thing, and they have been using it for a long time.

That's why some genuine racists can't be called out as such - they are shielded by white liberal guilt.
Some of the biggest racists I encounter are those calling others racists.

 

[Prestonyte]

Yes. And ” historians “ forget or deny that Africans were selling Africans

Conveniently I might add.

 

[adcoop]

Technically, blacks can't be racists. lol

...and most of you that happen to be white on this message board can't be racist against me because I don't think you have any power to control my life in any way. Racism in America has never been about the color of skin. That's bias/prejudice. Who cares about that if you can't control what I try to do in life or where I go. Racism comes in if and when you have that power to effect what I'm trying to do. So, yes Blacks can be biased, prejudiced, and even racist if they have a position of power. What I see many white people do is conflate all of those into one thing and have very little nuance to conversations concerning race. They get defensive and emotional in a lot of the ways that Black people tend to do about too many things.

 

[Tusi21!!]

...and most of you that happen to be white on this message board can't be racist against me because I don't think you have any power to control my life in any way. Racism in America has never been about the color of skin. That's bias/prejudice. Who cares about that if you can't control what I try to do in life or where I go. Racism comes in if and when you have that power to effect what I'm trying to do. So, yes Blacks can be biased, prejudiced, and even racist if they have a position of power. What I see many white people do is conflate all of those into one thing and have very little nuance to conversations concerning race. They get defensive and emotional in a lot of the ways that Black people tend to do about too many things.

Racism has lost its meaning. Just like everything right of center is a nazi. Altho a stereotype is true you're a racist.
"We chose truth over facts" -biden

 

[Prestonyte]

Racist is now the common name given to someone you simply disagree with - very sad world we have become.