OT: Shipping Cost Good News

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johnson86-1

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horshack.sixpack

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Is it dropping because pandemic related log jams are being eliminated? Or is it because we are in a recession and the log jams are gone because of demand drop?
Article just doesn't say, and i have zero knowledge of the why. Just thought it was interesting, and nice to see things getting closer to pre-pandemic.
 

Seinfeld

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It’s funny you bring this up because Pottery Barn triggered me over shipping costs just this morning. I’ve been needing to order a couple cabinet pieces for a while now, and I was happy to see sometime during the last week that PB had the ones I wanted marked down by 20%, so I thought I’d go ahead and get them ordered before I missed out on the sale.

Well, I get everything situated in my cart and right as I get to the billing portion, I immediately spot the $209 charge for shipping. Yes, $209 shipping for $440 of merch. Well, my curiosity got the better of me, and I pulled up some of my invoices from last year which showed that I had paid $75 on similar orders. So what happened? Easy… those mother17ers advertised a 20% discount and then multiplied the shipping costs by 2.5x so that I’m not saving a dime. Considering the drastic reductions in logistics costs which I know all too well being that I’ve been in supply chain and operations for nearly 20 years, these 17ers are playing a marketing shell game that honestly may be illegal. I’d be curious to find out
 
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Cantdoitsal

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Article just doesn't say, and i have zero knowledge of the why. Just thought it was interesting, and nice to see things getting closer to pre-pandemic.
We ain't nowhere near sniffin' pre-pandemic on anything because that would be the economy we HAD pre-pandemic which was firing on all cylinders.
 

horshack.sixpack

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It’s funny you bring this up because Pottery Barn triggered me over shipping costs just this morning. I’ve been needing to order a couple cabinet pieces for a while now, and I was happy to see sometime during the last week that PB had the ones I wanted marked down by 20%, so I thought I’d go ahead and get them ordered before I missed out on the sale.

Well, I get everything situated in my cart and right as I get to the billing portion, I immediately spot the $209 charge for shipping. Yes, $209 shipping for $440 of merch. Well, my curiosity got the better of me, and I pulled up some of my invoices from last year which showed that I had paid $75 on similar orders. So what happened? Easy… those mother17ers advertised a 20% discount and then multiplied the shipping costs by 2.5x so that I’m not saving a dime. Considering the drastic reductions in logistics costs which I know all too well being that I’ve been in supply chain and operations for nearly 20 years, these 17ers are playing a marketing shell game that honestly may be illegal. I’d be curious to find out
I bet we, as consumers will see a lag behind the kind of shipping described above. At a minimum, we won't see it all until in stock items that arrived under higher costs are consumed and paid for.
 

Cantdoitsal

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Respectfully, the article and graph that I shared rebuts your assertion that we aren't "sniffin' pre-pandemic on anything"?
Compared to the way things were, this is a drop in the bucket and nothing to write home about. People are still having to take out loans to buy eggs and gas.
 

jethreauxdawg

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It’s funny you bring this up because Pottery Barn triggered me over shipping costs just this morning. I’ve been needing to order a couple cabinet pieces for a while now, and I was happy to see sometime during the last week that PB had the ones I wanted marked down by 20%, so I thought I’d go ahead and get them ordered before I missed out on the sale.

Well, I get everything situated in my cart and right as I get to the billing portion, I immediately spot the $209 charge for shipping. Yes, $209 shipping for $440 of merch. Well, my curiosity got the better of me, and I pulled up some of my invoices from last year which showed that I had paid $75 on similar orders. So what happened? Easy… those mother17ers advertised a 20% discount and then multiplied the shipping costs by 2.5x so that I’m not saving a dime. Considering the drastic reductions in logistics costs which I know all too well being that I’ve been in supply chain and operations for nearly 20 years, these 17ers are playing a marketing shell game that honestly may be illegal. I’d be curious to find out
Pottery Barn? Nice humble brag**
 

WestDawg

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I don’t care what that graph says….it’s a straight lie as far as my wallet is concerned. I’ve watched for the past 2.5 years as shipping costs steadily rose, until the past 4 months in which it rose over 60+% and where my shipping costs are now more than double (sometimes triple) what they were pre-pandemic.
somebody’s trying to make your eyes not catch what your mind already knows is true
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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View attachment 302197

Now we need a lumber update from @PooPopsBaldHead
It would appear the lumber futures market has at least put in a tactical bottom, if not a permanent one back in December. Its up 27% since then.

Much like other commodities (oil, gas) at certain prices it becomes cost prohibitive to continue to produce more product. Mills have started production curtailments to keep from losing more money. So even with considerably weaker demand, it appears some balance has been found.

The way it has worked with lumber historically is it trades in a range for 20 -30 years (which it did from 1992-2020) and once some catalyst breaks it out of the old range, the old ceiling becomes the new floor.

I guess theoretically, we could go back to the old range and stay, but that would require mill workers to give back all the pay raises, loggers that retired to get back in business, and oil to go back to $40 a barrel. Other factors such as Canadian lumber tariffs and the exhaustion of beetle kill spruce in BC make it unlikely to see that happen though.

Here's a monthly price chart of lumber futures going back nearly 40 years. In full disclosure, I dropped in that yellow dashed line back in August of 2021 as my guess on what lumber prices would do moving forward. It really just mimics the prices of previous cycles. On the whole, it's not to far off, but the recent bottom was lower than I expected as interest rates have gone way higher than I would have thought 18 months ago.

Screenshot_20230124-105449.png

Net net... If you are building a shed, deck, or paying cash for some other project, you can effectively buy lumber today at the same price you could 30 years ago. Not much downside risk from here so get after it. If you are building a house or big addition that requires a mortgage, that stinks because high interest rates more than outweigh cheap lumber. Hopefully in another 12-18 months we achieve better balance of interest rates, labor, and materials... But that is up to the Federal Reserve.
 

horshack.sixpack

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I don’t care what that graph says….it’s a straight lie as far as my wallet is concerned. I’ve watched for the past 2.5 years as shipping costs steadily rose, until the past 4 months in which it rose over 60+% and where my shipping costs are now more than double (sometimes triple) what they were pre-pandemic.
somebody’s trying to make your eyes not catch what your mind already knows is true
FBX is the standard for this kind of data. Per a previous post, inventory bought and shipped at prior rates will have to exit the system. I suspect the length of time that takes varies by industry. Based on lack of inventory on many things, I hope it doesn't take too long to find its way into our pockets on goods. I have no idea how/if international container shipping correlates in any way to the shipping you are describing that you do. I stand by my original post, and point, that container shipping costs dropping to near pre-pandemic levels is good.
 

GloryDawg

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When I see that I get sick to my stomach over the 800 billion plus trade deficit. 350 of that is with China. Americans are getting squeezed by everyone. 5.7 million more illegals putting more strain on taxpayers. Gas price on the rise again. Still 30-year record inflation. 31 trillion-dollar national debt. Home prices dropping. Interest rates rising on loans and more tragic on credit cards. Real income declining. If groceries prices keep rising a lot of people will not afford to eat. This country is really ****** position right now. Then we have a cognitive impaired fool in the white house who thinks things are peachy and thinks keeping top secret documents in his garage by the corvette is ok. He is clueless and his back up is incompetent. To add there are 34% people thinking he is doing a good job.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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If we can get 18-wheelers to do the same, I might be able to leave the grocery store without crying
Heres one of my favorite grocery inflation trackers. IRI collects all the data from grocery scanners after coupons, discounts, etc and publishes real grocery inflation . In the images below anything over 100 is year over year inflation. These are the most recent two weeks of data and the same weeks from a year ago. You can see meat and seafood are basically done, but refrigerated (eggs?), frozen, beverages, and general food are the problems now.

Hopefully the top is in on the crazy food inflation, but I imagine until Russia/Ukraine is settled it remains higher than normal on all the things that rely on wheat.

Screenshot_20230124-114252.png

Screenshot_20230124-114124~2.png
 

Dawgg

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Sep 9, 2012
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It’s funny you bring this up because Pottery Barn triggered me over shipping costs just this morning. I’ve been needing to order a couple cabinet pieces for a while now, and I was happy to see sometime during the last week that PB had the ones I wanted marked down by 20%, so I thought I’d go ahead and get them ordered before I missed out on the sale.

Well, I get everything situated in my cart and right as I get to the billing portion, I immediately spot the $209 charge for shipping. Yes, $209 shipping for $440 of merch. Well, my curiosity got the better of me, and I pulled up some of my invoices from last year which showed that I had paid $75 on similar orders. So what happened? Easy… those mother17ers advertised a 20% discount and then multiplied the shipping costs by 2.5x so that I’m not saving a dime. Considering the drastic reductions in logistics costs which I know all too well being that I’ve been in supply chain and operations for nearly 20 years, these 17ers are playing a marketing shell game that honestly may be illegal. I’d be curious to find out
Sorry to hear about this, your majesty.
 
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Boom Boom

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Heres one of my favorite grocery inflation trackers. IRI collects all the data from grocery scanners after coupons, discounts, etc and publishes real grocery inflation . In the images below anything over 100 is year over year inflation. These are the most recent two weeks of data and the same weeks from a year ago. You can see meat and seafood are basically done, but refrigerated (eggs?), frozen, beverages, and general food are the problems now.

Hopefully the top is in on the crazy food inflation, but I imagine until Russia/Ukraine is settled it remains higher than normal on all the things that rely on wheat.

View attachment 302255

View attachment 302256
The problem with only looking at that data right now is by all accounts we had a lot more inflationn in the first half of 2022 than the 2nd. We've had virtually no inflation over the last six months. Should we still be working to lower inflation at this point?
 

3dawgnight

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Our pre pandemic economy was not firing on all cylinders. Had an inverted yield curve until Trump pressured Jerome Powell to lower rates creating an interesting dilemma. Should politicians influence monetary policy directly?
 

kired

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Yeah, it's dropped significantly for whatever reason. Our quotes were $18-$20k per container in June / July (China to west coast, then to Mississippi). Now it's under $9k.
 

TrueMaroonGrind

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Yeah, it's dropped significantly for whatever reason. Our quotes were $18-$20k per container in June / July (China to west coast, then to Mississippi). Now it's under $9k.
Volume has dropped pretty significantly for the last few months compared to 2021 and early 2022. December looked okay for my company but not crazy like the beginning of 2022. It looks like numbers are coming down from a drayage perspective. Hopefully they stabilize instead of dropping off a cliff. I’m new to drayage but I know that fees due to bottlenecks of containers have driven up prices the last couple of years. If the bottlenecks are finally correcting it could cause rates to drop due to decreased fees and truckers having fewer options.

Let’s hope the decreases make it to our wallets sooner rather than later.
 
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Dawgbite

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I shipped a 1.5 pound box to SC this morning. Believe it or not Fed Ex was a few cents cheaper than UPS. $20.38 for regular ground. Pre Covid I could ship that same package for $7.25.
 

Cantdoitsal

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International trade has always been a wealth creator for all nations for thousands of years and continues to this day and as long as we have more buying power than the rest of the world we will always have trade deficits. The debate is to what degree.
 
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missouridawg

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View attachment 302197

Now we need a lumber update from @PooPopsBaldHead

Hope to see my costs go down for us soon.

We ship to the UK, Australia, and New Zealand fairly regularly.

UK costs went up slightly and haven't come down any.
Australia and New Zealand costs went up like 300% and haven't moved since December 2022 when we last shipped to them.
 

57stratdawg

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They should continue to fall as China reopens.

It wasn’t just the actual cost which American importers felt - but the ‘time’ cost also. It was not uncommon for me to 90+ day in-transit lags in 2021 - 1H 2022. That’s back down to 30 - 45 days today.

Those lags can miss deadlines or seasonal periods. That’s more dead inventory. That’s more borrowing / interest costs. That could be more personal property taxes. They were literally impacting businesses on every line items of the P&L.
 

blacklistedbully

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The problem with only looking at that data right now is by all accounts we had a lot more inflationn in the first half of 2022 than the 2nd. We've had virtually no inflation over the last six months. Should we still be working to lower inflation at this point?
Little-to-no increase in inflation does not mean no inflation. You leftists love to twist facts like that. Inflation is high. Eventually it goes down when people stop buying. They have stopped buying because they can longer longer afford to spend. The Biden admin & Democrats have done that to us. They have put us in the position where the Fed has had to jack up interests rates faster than any other time in out history, as far as I know.

If there were any worse times, they are very few. You can try all you want to put lipstick on this pig, but it's still a pig.
 
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WestDawg

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Heres one of my favorite grocery inflation trackers. IRI collects all the data from grocery scanners after coupons, discounts, etc and publishes real grocery inflation . In the images below anything over 100 is year over year inflation. These are the most recent two weeks of data and the same weeks from a year ago. You can see meat and seafood are basically done, but refrigerated (eggs?), frozen, beverages, and general food are the problems now.

Hopefully the top is in on the crazy food inflation, but I imagine until Russia/Ukraine is settled it remains higher than normal on all the things that rely on wheat.

View attachment 302255

View attachment 302256
Hate to break it to you and everyone else, it if you’ve paid tight attention to what’s happening at the ground level in both the seafood fleets on both sides of the country AND the cattle farmers AND the chicken farmers you will realize that little dip/leveling off is just the calm before the epic storm this coming summer. There’s not gonna be cattle to eat this summer - you’re eating what’s been sold off all across the country right now and for the next couple months, then it’s all gone. We are looking at 2-2.5 years before we come close to recovering there if we don’t have massive droughts and feed prices can come down - which will double AGAIN this coming spring and further.
The cost of new federal regs, fuel, massive influx of foreign product flooding the market, along with a LOT of boats that went under this past year - it’s all coming to a head there.
Chicken industry is kaput. The feds have cullled 10s of MILLIONS of birds across the country over the faux flu, the resulting loss of meat birds and egg layers, and the unbelievable cost of feed and growing lack of it to buy….we are at a crisis point and it’s about to tip over the edge. We are looking at 1-1.5 years of recovery there….but like the cattle industry, we’ve lost a lot of farms/farmers because of what’s happened the past two years.
AND to put in the death knell, the grain commodities are done. Inputs through the roof - more than doubled this past year. Will nearly be double that or more this spring planting season. Looking at a staggering 30-40+% crop loss for many grains due to drop, late crop plantings, much lower yields due to less inputs. Add to that that winter wheat across the country was terribly impacted by that nasty cold snap we all experienced to the point that huge swaths were completely lost. Many farmers had the opportunity to replant in some areas, but that pushes back harvest date and resulting later plantings for rotational crops behind the wheat - oh, and that’s IF they can afford to replant.
About to be a bumpy ride
 

57stratdawg

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Our pre pandemic economy was not firing on all cylinders. Had an inverted yield curve until Trump pressured Jerome Powell to lower rates creating an interesting dilemma. Should politicians influence monetary policy directly?
We were probably headed for a recession in 2020 anyway. We were due for one, honestly. It had been over a decade.

I believe in the FED’s independence though.
 
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horshack.sixpack

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Hate to break it to you and everyone else, it if you’ve paid tight attention to what’s happening at the ground level in both the seafood fleets on both sides of the country AND the cattle farmers AND the chicken farmers you will realize that little dip/leveling off is just the calm before the epic storm this coming summer. There’s not gonna be cattle to eat this summer - you’re eating what’s been sold off all across the country right now and for the next couple months, then it’s all gone. We are looking at 2-2.5 years before we come close to recovering there if we don’t have massive droughts and feed prices can come down - which will double AGAIN this coming spring and further.
The cost of new federal regs, fuel, massive influx of foreign product flooding the market, along with a LOT of boats that went under this past year - it’s all coming to a head there.
Chicken industry is kaput. The feds have cullled 10s of MILLIONS of birds across the country over the faux flu, the resulting loss of meat birds and egg layers, and the unbelievable cost of feed and growing lack of it to buy….we are at a crisis point and it’s about to tip over the edge. We are looking at 1-1.5 years of recovery there….but like the cattle industry, we’ve lost a lot of farms/farmers because of what’s happened the past two years.
AND to put in the death knell, the grain commodities are done. Inputs through the roof - more than doubled this past year. Will nearly be double that or more this spring planting season. Looking at a staggering 30-40+% crop loss for many grains due to drop, late crop plantings, much lower yields due to less inputs. Add to that that winter wheat across the country was terribly impacted by that nasty cold snap we all experienced to the point that huge swaths were completely lost. Many farmers had the opportunity to replant in some areas, but that pushes back harvest date and resulting later plantings for rotational crops behind the wheat - oh, and that’s IF they can afford to replant.
About to be a bumpy ride
I believe you for one reason. You did not type “death nail “. Possibly an SPS first. Hope I don’t come across as a pre-Madonna
 

Boom Boom

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Little-to-no increase in inflation does not mean no inflation. You leftists love to twist facts like that. Inflation is high. Eventually it goes down when people stop buying. They have stopped buying because they can longer longer afford to spend. The Biden admin & Democrats have done that to us. They have put us in the position where the Fed has had to jack up interests rates faster than any other time in out history, as far as I know.

If there were any worse times, they are very few. You can try all you want to put lipstick on this pig, but it's still a pig.
Ok, what are you saying the inflation rate has been over the last 6 months?
 

Cantdoitsal

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Ok, what are you saying the inflation rate has been over the last 6 months?
Here's the chart. UN BE Leivable. This is what happens when the Gov't prints and spends too much money all in the name of "Heppin the Poor" yet backfires and crushes the Poor with the hidden tax known as inflation. Was at 1.4% in 2020 , was at 2% 4 years prior then spiked to 7% in 2021 then 6.5% in 2022.

 

Beretta.sixpack

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I didnt read all the replies here, but i sat in a 30 min presentation by a former FedEx executive last summer.....he listed several issues with the shipping industry....it was very interesting....first, a lot freight liners have moved to the Mega Liners and our ports are not set up to unload these mega ships....I believe there are only 3 ports in the entire US that can handle these mega liners....also, California has implemented a new law that say trucks have to be within 10 years old due to emission controls...this hurts the independent truckers who can't flip their trucks that often, and they make up over half the haulers....container cost.....etc....basically it is/was a perfect storm...
 
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GloryDawg

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International trade has always been a wealth creator for all nations for thousands of years and continues to this day and as long as we have more buying power than the rest of the world we will always have trade deficits. The debate is to what degree.
The problem is when you have an American Company importing their product manufactured in China that uses Slave labor like iPhone and NIKE.
 

DesotoCountyDawg

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Nov 16, 2005
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Hate to break it to you and everyone else, it if you’ve paid tight attention to what’s happening at the ground level in both the seafood fleets on both sides of the country AND the cattle farmers AND the chicken farmers you will realize that little dip/leveling off is just the calm before the epic storm this coming summer. There’s not gonna be cattle to eat this summer - you’re eating what’s been sold off all across the country right now and for the next couple months, then it’s all gone. We are looking at 2-2.5 years before we come close to recovering there if we don’t have massive droughts and feed prices can come down - which will double AGAIN this coming spring and further.
The cost of new federal regs, fuel, massive influx of foreign product flooding the market, along with a LOT of boats that went under this past year - it’s all coming to a head there.
Chicken industry is kaput. The feds have cullled 10s of MILLIONS of birds across the country over the faux flu, the resulting loss of meat birds and egg layers, and the unbelievable cost of feed and growing lack of it to buy….we are at a crisis point and it’s about to tip over the edge. We are looking at 1-1.5 years of recovery there….but like the cattle industry, we’ve lost a lot of farms/farmers because of what’s happened the past two years.
AND to put in the death knell, the grain commodities are done. Inputs through the roof - more than doubled this past year. Will nearly be double that or more this spring planting season. Looking at a staggering 30-40+% crop loss for many grains due to drop, late crop plantings, much lower yields due to less inputs. Add to that that winter wheat across the country was terribly impacted by that nasty cold snap we all experienced to the point that huge swaths were completely lost. Many farmers had the opportunity to replant in some areas, but that pushes back harvest date and resulting later plantings for rotational crops behind the wheat - oh, and that’s IF they can afford to replant.
About to be a bumpy ride
The bird flu issue isn’t some fakery. It’s a real problem and it’s causing a lot of issues. At some point it will run its course but who knows how long that will be. Eggs and meat will continue to be high for some time.

Inputs are down for grain. Fertilizer is still high but it’s come down from the highs, chemicals are down significantly. Fuel has also come down from the crazy highs. Still running above the 10 year average but it’s nothing like last year


Brazil has a record crop as usual. It tends to happen when you’re constantly slashing Forest to make more farmland. Argentina is burning up and their soybean crop is toast and that will affect soybean crush numbers. China relies heavily on Brazil for soybeans this time of year.


Every time someone starts ringing the alarm bell about commodities they take a big dive because ultimately there’s a good growing season that makes up the difference.





 
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OG Goat Holder

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Oh, you mean everybody freaked out during 2021 and 2022 over things where it was easy to see the reasoning behind it? You mean we are, in fact, still alive and the world hasn't ended? You mean you CAN still live, work and raises children in the US of A?

Tell me more.
 

Boom Boom

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Here's the chart. UN BE Leivable. This is what happens when the Gov't prints and spends too much money all in the name of "Heppin the Poor" yet backfires and crushes the Poor with the hidden tax known as inflation. Was at 1.4% in 2020 , was at 2% 4 years prior then spiked to 7% in 2021 then 6.5% in 2022.

The question was inflation over the last 6 months. If you scroll down your link you get to a table that breaks it down by month over 2022. It comes out to an annualized rate of 1.8% over the last 6 months. 1.8%!
 

johnson86-1

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The question was inflation over the last 6 months. If you scroll down your link you get to a table that breaks it down by month over 2022. It comes out to an annualized rate of 1.8% over the last 6 months. 1.8%!
That's not that low compared to recently. And it really needs to stay that low for people to be able to get some breathing room back without the ability to negotiate >5% raises. If somebody has been getting steady 3% raises since 2020 and that continues into the future, it will still take them another 7-8 years to get back to where they were in 2020 in real earning power, even if inflation stays at 2%.
 

Cantdoitsal

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Sep 26, 2022
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The question was inflation over the last 6 months. If you scroll down your link you get to a table that breaks it down by month over 2022. It comes out to an annualized rate of 1.8% over the last 6 months. 1.8%!
It has been trending down the last 6 months but inflation numbers are horrible compared to 2020 still. Never have gov't policies wrecked our economy this fast to this degree and they KNEW inflation was going to be the result which impacts the poorest the worst. Here's Jan thru Dec 2022 inflation numbers. Your "1.8%" means absolute Dick. The final columns are the yearly averages.
2022
7.5​
7.9​
8.5​
8.3​
8.6​
9.1​
8.5​
8.3​
8.2​
7.7​
7.1​
6.5​
8.0​

Compare to 2020:
2020
2.5​
2.3​
1.5​
0.3​
0.1​
0.6​
1.0​
1.3​
1.4​
1.2​
1.2​
1.4​
1.2​

Check out what started happening in 2021:
2021
1.4​
1.7​
2.6​
4.2​
5.0​
5.4​
5.4​
5.3​
5.4​
6.2​
6.8​
7.0​
4.7​
 
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