OT: Should Mississippi follow California’s lead?
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Is it a good idea? Sure...or no. How someone views it relies on if they are a blind supporter of one of the two major parties and if they are personally impacted.
- There should be no minimum wage because 'the labor market' will naturally set wages.
- There should be an increased minimum wage because history has shown time and again that the bottom 25% of wage earners are viewed as a commodity and at best have minimal negotiating power.
- There should be no minimum wage because a small business owner is exempt, but will still have to pay more in order to hire/retain employees.
- There should be an increased minimum wage because the growing earnings gap is a direct result of those in power further enriching those in power and this is at the expense of employees further down.
- There should be no minimum wage because minimum wages only push up pay for everyone above the minimum wage earners, and once pay is adjusted, inflation happens and those increased earnings are eliminated due to increased living costs.
- There should be an increased minimum wage because it has been shown that money in the hands of lower wage workers helps stimulate consumer spending and boost the economy, vs more money for the wealthy results in more money stored away.
- There should be no minimum wage because my cheeseburger already costs too much and those lazy employees barely get the order right as it is, so why would I pay more?
- There should be an increased minimum wage because maybe better employees can be hired and my cheeseburger order will be right more often.
There is no simple answer to this, which means some on SPS will start glitching and just repeat the same thing over and over, regardless of counter discussion.
To actually give an opinion- I bet the first 6-9 months will be tough for employers. Those who have to pay more will feel the pinch financially and will work to reduce staff to maximize labor value. Those who dont have to pay more due to exemption will feel the pinch because some employees may leave to earn more. But its not like employers who have to pay $20min will want to have a big hiring event, so jobs at those places will be limited, which will naturally funnel labor back to the employers that dont have to pay $20min due to exemption.
- There should be no minimum wage because 'the labor market' will naturally set wages.
- There should be an increased minimum wage because history has shown time and again that the bottom 25% of wage earners are viewed as a commodity and at best have minimal negotiating power.
- There should be no minimum wage because a small business owner is exempt, but will still have to pay more in order to hire/retain employees.
- There should be an increased minimum wage because the growing earnings gap is a direct result of those in power further enriching those in power and this is at the expense of employees further down.
- There should be no minimum wage because minimum wages only push up pay for everyone above the minimum wage earners, and once pay is adjusted, inflation happens and those increased earnings are eliminated due to increased living costs.
- There should be an increased minimum wage because it has been shown that money in the hands of lower wage workers helps stimulate consumer spending and boost the economy, vs more money for the wealthy results in more money stored away.
- There should be no minimum wage because my cheeseburger already costs too much and those lazy employees barely get the order right as it is, so why would I pay more?
- There should be an increased minimum wage because maybe better employees can be hired and my cheeseburger order will be right more often.
There is no simple answer to this, which means some on SPS will start glitching and just repeat the same thing over and over, regardless of counter discussion.
To actually give an opinion- I bet the first 6-9 months will be tough for employers. Those who have to pay more will feel the pinch financially and will work to reduce staff to maximize labor value. Those who dont have to pay more due to exemption will feel the pinch because some employees may leave to earn more. But its not like employers who have to pay $20min will want to have a big hiring event, so jobs at those places will be limited, which will naturally funnel labor back to the employers that dont have to pay $20min due to exemption.
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How about rename it a starting wage instead of a minimum wage and remind people the ultimate goal is for them to to learn a skill/trade and/or obtain an education/experience that will allow the them to advance beyond the starting wage?
Without even opening or reading the message, we should NEVER "follow California's lead", in ANYTHING
My son is in college. He works part time making 17.00 an hour. I kind of question how many of the 62% who are working are making minimum wage. I believe that 50% of the 62% work for a goverment agency. Either local, state or federal. I doubt any of them are making minimum wage.
Bigger question. Should we read Glfr's posts or wait for CliffsNotes . **
My state's GDP has grown 47.43% between 2000 and 2022.
California's GDP has grown 70.12% in that same time.
My state's GDP per capita is $56,171 while California's GDP per capita is $73,933.
I am not complaining about GDP grown in my state, but I can confidently say that if we had California's numbers, more people around me would be Scrooge McDucking it up in their coin vaults.
FWIW, Mississippi's GDP has grown 18.47% in that same period of time.
It won't make a difference. Eventually all fast food places will be fully automated by our AI overlords. Also, isn't California just giving more pay to the same crappy workers. This belief that raising the minimum wage somehow lures better workers to work a crappy job is rarely true. Why can't they just pay illegals under the table like construction companies do? It's about time American workers have too much pride to work for any minimum wage, especially at some fast food job. We don't need to stoop that low. It's better we sit at home in our grandmother's basement eating Cheetos and playing video games. Hey Mom! More meatloaf!
Purely devil's advocate here, so plz don't yell at me. Obviously California has it's issues, but the state alone is the world's 5th largest economy. Must be doing something right.
They have a nice climate and natural resources. We should put some of that in here
Minimum wages are important enough that you should be able to look past the messenger. Sure, California's model may not work for us but to dismiss it simply because of your bias is short sighted at best and dumb as **** at worst.
Look at their model, use it only if it makes sense for us. Min Wage affects everyone and it keeps the labor force getting it's share of the pie. If you don't increase it as inflation rises, then more and more money ends up in the hands of the very rich which is what has been happening ever since we started Trickle down economics under Reagan and if it keeps going, you will see a rise in Unions and violence and cities will deteriorate even further.
I do not think that moving min wage by $13 to $20 in one day should be done. It would be too big of a shock to the economy.
I am not smart enough to decide how it should be done but dismissing a new idea simply because it was from someone you don't like is just wrong. This for or against crap based on party or State you live in is stupid. If it's a good idea and it works, why not utilize the parts you think will work.
I think a lot of people would be surprised at the number of places already paying $10-$15 minimum wages.
I constantly hear about how California is overwhelmed by so many out of control life altering fires there are each year, how dry the state was during the 11 year drought, the landslides and mudslides, the atmospheric river events, the spot with the hottest recorded temperature, etc. And that doesnt even address the earthquakes- both experienced and predicted.
Its a huge state with a full 4 seasons due to geography, but its sorta funny how the entire state is viewed as having a nice climate while also having all these weather/climate disasters.
When you have 12 Navy bases, 6 Marine bases, 6 Airforce bases, 4 Army bases along with 6 Reserve and National Guard bases, 6 fully funded military research, development centers and 3 military distribution depots. That is a lot of money being poured into the state. That's a lot of hay being bailed helping out that farm.
"Minimum wage" is a very inefficient way to address a very real market problem (disparity of negotiating power) that distorts free market outcomes/efficiency. That this distortion rewards the wealthy and harms the poor is part of the political calculus at play. Relatively low COLA MS probably does not need much improvement over the federal minimum wage, unlike high COLA states like Cali. But, if you wanted some improvement, working in some kind of profit sharing is more efficient than a minimum wage, if you can make that work without incentivizing owners to just hide profit. I myself would tie it to tax breaks. You want a business tax, break, well you should meet some minimum level of profit sharing with your workers, including wage.
Are these rises based on starting in the Covid years . I.E. are they basically recovery numbers based on the lows we all shared in 2020 ?
We do have a minimum wage and unfortunately lots of our state residents make it. $0.
I'm not a big fan of "productivity floors" where people can't legally work if they can't produce a certain amount of value, but if we are going to have it, certainly it should be as localized as possible. Biloxi shouldn't have the same productivity floor as Itta Bena and neither should have one anywhere near Seattle or Los Angelos.
I mean, copying a climate that in many places is as close to paradise on earth as it gets seems like a good idea if we can figure it out. But even if we figure out how to do that, we'll have the same problem as them where the stationary bandits capture an outsized share of the benefits.
Exactly.
California definitely has its issues — I’m well aware of them having formerly lived there and also have family who live and formerly lived in the state.
But California’s state and local governments do the right things much more often than Mississippi’s.
The big question I’m looking at now: Is Texas doing things better than California?
I had to look at that twice too because I’d read it the same way as you.
The start year is 2000.
I like the arguments and counter arguments you laid out. I also like the point of which political football team you play for may bias your view of this so there.
I look at it more from a business standpoint and this is only my lived truth.....isn't that the buzz word these days. I've been involved in budgeting for decades. We never and I repeat never planned for decreased revenue or profitability. Wall Street and our shareholders simply won't have it period. Executive pay and reputation is so tied to stock performance that they'll sell their soul if they think it will keep the stock from being punished. So when labor cost increase they lay people off or raise prices or both. They don't just accept less profit.....ever.
Thats Corporate but I'm sure a lot of smaller businesses take the same approach they just don't have to deal with Market expectations. Higher minimum wage is great for workers doesn't really impact corporate kills small businesses and passes costs on to the consumer so there is good and bad depending on how you look at it and where you are in the pecking order.
Yep. It's frustrating to see so many people parroting the Fox News "California bad". Mocking a slight population decrease in a state that's been massively growing for 100 years while Mississippi has major issues attracting/retaining residents. Can't tell you how many people I've heard say "I wouldn't live in California to save my life", and then get mad at others for generalizing or mocking Mississippi.
I always wonder how many people comment on this topic who have never started and operated their own business, and who have never hired, managed, or fired employees. How many people have an opinion on a topic like this with no skin in the game? Who has been responsible for their employees and their employee families? Every time I enter into a conversation on this topic, it is typically with some liberal who has never been in the arena and thinks all business owners are driving yachts around they purchased from the backs of their underpaid employees.
I continue to tell everyone that finding really good employees is so difficult today that when you find one you pay them well and take really good care of them. The problem isn't that people don't want to pay employees, it's that no one knows how to work responsibly and with a good work ethic. The absence of families with morals is the deteriorating factor that causes a lack of good employees which causes a lower base pay.
I continue to tell everyone that finding really good employees is so difficult today that when you find one you pay them well and take really good care of them. The problem isn't that people don't want to pay employees, it's that no one knows how to work responsibly and with a good work ethic. The absence of families with morals is the deteriorating factor that causes a lack of good employees which causes a lower base pay.
Same here. One of my best friends is a hardcore Texan from the Waco area who moved to Mississippi in the 80's for his business. He absolutely hates what has happened to Texas and wouldn't even think about moving back. My point is they've done a lot of stuff right but are they headed in the right direction ?
A dollar isn't worth a dollar in most of California. It's worth $.50 at best. $20 an hour in CA or where I live is like $10 per hour in most of Mississippi.
I have been helping a few employees get a place to live recently.
1 bd/1ba with a loft 800 SF apartment $1800/mo
2 bd/1ba 750 SF apartment $2000/mo
27' 5th wheel with full hookup, $850/mo
These are the first 2 rental listings on Zillow in my town...
We don't need a $20 minimum wage, we already have one as determined by the free market. We have high school kids make $25 an hour at the local burger joint.
Now here is a rental listing for the farming town of Idaho Falls in eastern Idaho.
Now what would happen if we applied a $20 minimum wage in Idaho? Where I live, nothing at all. In Idaho Falls they would be absolutely 17ed.
Same could be said about San Francisco and little farming towns in CA.
I have been helping a few employees get a place to live recently.
1 bd/1ba with a loft 800 SF apartment $1800/mo
2 bd/1ba 750 SF apartment $2000/mo
27' 5th wheel with full hookup, $850/mo
These are the first 2 rental listings on Zillow in my town...
We don't need a $20 minimum wage, we already have one as determined by the free market. We have high school kids make $25 an hour at the local burger joint.
Now here is a rental listing for the farming town of Idaho Falls in eastern Idaho.
Now what would happen if we applied a $20 minimum wage in Idaho? Where I live, nothing at all. In Idaho Falls they would be absolutely 17ed.
Same could be said about San Francisco and little farming towns in CA.
Now compare cost of living between CA and MS. I'll start with gas. You can do home prices.
Sure are a lot of people leaving that beautiful weather and wonderful economy though. Tent cities everywhere, illegal inhabitants everywhere, Gavin Newsome, Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, rampant shop lifting w/ no threat of prosecution, fentanyl crisis, etc etc etc
China is the 2nd largest economy but I don't won't to follow China's lead in anything either.
I stand by my original statement, and I DIDN'T HOLLER** at you until just then....
This is the United States. You are free to move to California. I have several new neighbors that have moved to Mississippi to escape the worlds 5th largest economy.
Go a few more steps down the path. Business owners aren't just going to take the added cost out of their profits. They'll pass it on in the form of increased prices for their goods and services. Plus, the government will love the extra payroll and sales tax revenue. Then... VOILA! more inflation. I think I'll pass on the California model.
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Funny you should mention Texas. We just got back from Houston last night. My friend that we visited said they were putting secession on the ballot to get a sense of how the people feel about leaving the US. I asked him how they planned to handle Social Security payments.
AFA raising minimum wage is concerned I see it as devaluing savings and social security wages of the elderly. If you are young then it helps get your pay increased. Of course, the cost of everything goes up with the increases costs to produce them goes up. Businesses need profit or they fold. I am more of a free market advocate so artificial interference runs counter to my bias. The net effect IMHO is things will just go back to where they are in about a year and minimum wage activists will be clamoring for $30.
Yeah, housing is expensive. My parents owned a house and lived out on the coast about 40min south of SF- I am well aware COL is higher in CA than MS.
That doesnt negate my view that a higher GDP per capita would be beneficial to my state's population as a whole.
They are not. The numbers are for 22 years with 2000 being the starting year. The lows from 2020 are factored into all the states numbers I cited.
California GDP is a crock of shìt. It's measured in the US dollar which is not worth the same in CA as it is in other places across the country. We should look at output not dollars...
Example
If I build a 1700 SF house in Southern California I generate +/- $1,000,000 for the states GDP. If I build the same house in DFW I generate $400,000, and if I build it in DeSoto County it's more like $275,000.
I only built one house, yet it generated 2-4 times the revenue or GDP. Same can be said for every time a Big Mac is sold in CA vs other states. It's like comparing Zimbabwe and Germany GDP using their respective currencies... California and a few other states have shìt on the dollar.
Based on cost of living adjustments, California's GDP is overestimated by 35-40% and is roughly equal to that of Texas with 10,000,000 more residents.
A gallon of gas costs $5.17 in CA right now. The dollar is not worth a dollar there.
While companies moving to Texas from California have been in the news every so often the past few years, my main reason for asking that question is that some of my California family have been affected by those changes and have also moved there in the past few years.
Right. We would never want to risk becoming the world's 5th largest economy. ***
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