Just saw an article this morning that suggested that more people were now listing their houses (trend reversal) but that they were finding it hard to find buyers. Of course I can't find the link now...
OT - the cost to live comfortably as a single person in every state
- Thread starter mstateglfr
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I am stealing this, thanks in advance.
The "comfortable home" covers a lot. I'm not sure how much of a local phenomenon this is, but the houses that our friends started out in are all still relatively affordable. Certainly more expensive with the interest rates, but not crazy out of line with inflation price wise and less than $300k, mostly less than $200k and some less than that. But I don't know that any of us could find any younger people we know living in those type houses. Younger people coming from similar backgrounds or working our prior jobs seem to view those as non-starters. When we were that age we were talking about how many of our friends were wanting to jump into the type of home their parents lived in after 20-25 years of work, so I guess it's just a continuation of that trend and they just lived in nicer housing than we did when they graduated high school. But still weird to see in real time.
Is $1,500 not pretty high? We spend around $1,000 a month on groceries. Lots of ground beef and chicken in there and rarely steak or good fish, but we still buy a lot of expensive stuff for convenience. We eat out to, but if we cut out eating out completely I doubt our groceries would hit more than $1200.
It's a shame more people don't realize just how badly they are getting screwed by taxes. Just FICA alone is pretty much 14% off the bat that people don't realize is that high because the employer pays part of it and they don't realize it's basically all born by them. Then if you're probably paying between 5 and 8% sales tax on most of your daily spending. You probably pay 15%ish on gas purchases. Then you pay property taxes, either directly or with increased rent.
For somebody that makes $100k when you include the FICA paid on their behalf, between FICA, Sate income tax of 5%, Federal tax of 12%, and sales tax of 5% on half of what you spend, and a moderate property tax bill, it wouldn't take being in a high tax state or a particularly high income to get to over a 33% effective tax rate without even considering things like tariffs.
We talk all the time about how lucky we are that we got into a long term house when we did. We got hit a little bit on COVID pricing on the house, but not too badly and we haven't really had to make a major purchase since **** went crazy. Our expenses have still got up more than the headline inflation amount, so I don't know how people that are also paying more for housing and cars are handling it.
One of my kids had surgery a couple months ago to get a ganglion cyst removed from her wrist. The procedure is quick, but they put her fully out, so it ends up being a full day production.
Anyways, the surgery center(owned by the doctor group, yet 'separate' from the doctor group) called me a few days before the surgery and told me I had to pay at least 50% of the estimated cost by the day before surgery or her appointment would be cancelled.
That was a new one for us- hadnt paid half up front before a surgery yet. Maybe thats common elsewhere and recently implemented in my metro? It was odd too, since we had been to that place as a family a few times over the last decade and no prior surgeries elsewhere as a family have been this way.
I assume they do it to reduce the risk of a patient not paying and dont really fault em for it, but still- that required a surprise last minute funds transfer.
Just guessing, but a lot of time which doctors and which facilities are "in-network" don't matchup. So you go to a hospital and get a massive out of network bill from an anesthesiologist group. Or you follow your doctor to a facility and then get hammered on the facility charges. Complete ******** and I think a lot of states have either eliminated this practice or at least required much better disclosure. But if the surgery center is fighting battles iwth insurance companies a lot over BS like that, getting half up front ensures they at least cover their costs while they fight over insurance.
I dont' know if we could have 17ed up how we pay for medical care in this country worse if we had tried.
Come on, not a general complaint about people being screwed by taxes. That just kills things.
People arent being screwed by taxes. The sales tax you complain about, the gas tax you complain about, the property taxes you complain about- those things fund police, fire, parks, roads, education, etc etc. My gosh- if you think your specific town/county/state is spending money poorly, then mention that. But elsewhere, that money is going to good use to maintain or even improve quality and convenience for the whole.
Yea, if we were paying for all that, and not racking up massive debt loads at the federal level and often (usually?) at the state and local level, that'd be fine. But having that kind of tax burden while also racking up debt is hard to stomach.
All very true.
Our current home is a modest late 50s ranch that we bought in early 2012 when housing prices were still suppressed, new homes still werent being built en masse like they were 4+ years earlier, and it was a buyer's market.
Paid $176k for the house and it is currently worth $330k, and while we have done a lot to the house and property(new shed, waterproofed and finished basement, new roof, new hvac, and more) most of that value increase is not because of what we put into the house.
I cant imagine a couple that is 30-31 years old with 2 young kids buying that house today.
We refinanced during the late summer of 2020 and did a 15-year mortgate(had 22 left) when the interest rate for that was like 2.375%, I think. We currently pay under $1500/month for principal, interest, property taxes, and homeowners insurance, even though property taxes and insurance have skyrocketed in the last 2 years.
I look at all this and recognize a lot of it was just being in the right right place at the right time. Its largely circumstantial- we happened to buy the house at a low point in the market(we sold our old house at a low point too), we happened to own the house when interest rates plummeted to historic lows which allowed us to refinance and cut years off the mortgage while keeping payments absurdly low, and we own the house during a period of time when housing value has risen exponentially.
There is no way we could afford the house today, if we were our 30-31 year old selves from 12 years ago, not even when accounting for salary increases. 0 chance.
That really sucks to see since it impacts so many people in the 25-35 age range.
What should we reduce spending on?
- social security, which would cause catastrophic suffering and a collapse of our economy and perhaps government?
- education, which is documented to be the biggest driver of economic growth and domestic stability over the last 150+ years?
- medicare and health, which would send an untenable number of people into a position where they die early and even more who arent able to participate in the workforce that keeps this gigantic economy rolling?
- defense, which spends more than the next 10 countries combined, but also helps ensure a relatively stable global economy that the US
Yes I phrased that to make it sound like defense should be cut.
I do recognize that cutting anything will have massive ramifications, even defense. Heck, reducing military means those people arent employed and businesses that support military shrink. Ripples everywhere, regardless of what is cut.
What should we reduce spending on?
- social security, which would cause catastrophic suffering and a collapse of our economy and perhaps government?
- education, which is documented to be the biggest driver of economic growth and domestic stability over the last 150+ years?
- medicare and health, which would send an untenable number of people into a position where they die early and even more who arent able to participate in the workforce that keeps this gigantic economy rolling?
- defense, which spends more than the next 10 countries combined, but also helps ensure a relatively stable global economy that the USexploitsbenefits from?
Yes I phrased that to make it sound like defense should be cut.
I do recognize that cutting anything will have massive ramifications, even defense. Heck, reducing military means those people arent employed and businesses that support military shrink. Ripples everywhere, regardless of what is cut.
If I may save everyone time by distilling this argument:
Carl: We pay lots of taxes. Maybe too much?
Larry: No! All taxes are good. There is no such thing as government waste. The government sustains our lifeforce. If you cut any taxes everyone will die! Why do you want everyone to die?
We should let Social security pay out money as it comes in. Tax all social security benefits and put those additional taxes back into Social security revenue. Maybe shift the haircuts to limit the haircut by people getting minimum benefits.
We've got a lot of low hanging fruit in education and healthcare where we can just stop doing stupid stuff to drive up costs. Tons of capable people spend their working lives doing nothing but dealing with obstacles we self impose. Let doctors from developed countries come here without having to start over in residencies. Penalize states with reimbursement rates if they have CON laws and don't allow NPs to practice on their own. Fund more residencies so that we create more doctors.
For education, do away with the department of education except for the amount of staff needed to block grant stuff to the state, without a 1,000 pages of CFR to comply with. Let each state spend the money how they want provided it's loosely qualified as education. Sure, some states will just hand it over to unions and political graft, but they're already doing that. Other states would be able to provide a much better education more cheaply.
Drastically simplify NEPA and use federal funding for infrastructure to incentivize states getting rid of NIMBY vetoes and 3rd and 4th and 10th bites at the apple. Get rid of the multiple bites at the apple at the federal level also. Once it's permitted, it's permitted.
Certainly there are lots of programs that can just be discontinued. So many grant and revolving loan funds where the administrative burden eats up too much of the benefits.
Yes, cut defense spending.- defense, which spends more than the next 10 countries combined, but also helps ensure a relatively stable global economy that the USexploitsbenefits from?
I'm not disagreeing, but I would add that the assumption by an individual that they can work to 65 is a much more unhealthy one. Plan to be able to retire earlier than you want, then choose to work longer under your terms at the end. Or at least, prioritize that before Escalades and McMansions IMO.
My most recent boss has been considering retirement for a while, kept pushing it off. Just got a cancer diagnosis. Who knows if he'll ever actually get to enjoy retirement now. The extra million or two he earned, he can't take it with him. On the other hand, generational wealth is more important than ever, and if you can pass that down isn't it worth a few years of easy work?
I was just reading an article about "flextirement", how transitioning to part time work before full retirement is much better for the retirees and the employers. I hope it takes off, that's what I hope to do in a few years.
I see all these young engineers buying large houses in this market, and just shake my head. You don't have kids, go buy a small house in a rural area and save up rather than pay 8% on a half million. That's $40k a year in interest! You could be laid off tomorrow and have to move across the country! But they all want to host parties and such. To each their own. I just don't think they actually realize the cost.
I plan to be able to retire at 50 with everything i want (not far off now), but work to 55. But by then, with teenagers rather than toddlers, maybe I change my mind. All I know is that when I do have time off I have more than enough to keep me occupied, and I wish I had more time off when it's time to go back to work.
Woah woah woah, effective tax rate discussion...from J85? Whaaaaaaat? Ok ok, do billionaires now.
Anesthesiologists (oh THAT spell check finally works on?) Was ridiculous on that. I once looked in my company's system, and saw that BCBS did not have one "in network" in the entire country.
I wanna say the Feds finally fixed that. One of the benefits of an effective Admin. (Looking cross-eyed at you, Obama). Kind of amazes me how Biden has been the best at this stuff since....hell in my life I think. But he's old and Obama was young and cool, so nobody knows.
You started to argue for cutting military spending, but you ended up advocating for using military spending as an economic stimulus program.What should we reduce spending on?
- social security, which would cause catastrophic suffering and a collapse of our economy and perhaps government?
- education, which is documented to be the biggest driver of economic growth and domestic stability over the last 150+ years?
- medicare and health, which would send an untenable number of people into a position where they die early and even more who arent able to participate in the workforce that keeps this gigantic economy rolling?
- defense, which spends more than the next 10 countries combined, but also helps ensure a relatively stable global economy that the USexploitsbenefits from?
Yes I phrased that to make it sound like defense should be cut.
I do recognize that cutting anything will have massive ramifications, even defense. Heck, reducing military means those people arent employed and businesses that support military shrink. Ripples everywhere, regardless of what is cut.
I see your point, but I'm calculating out eat at home all the time and grocery store spend. The 1500 was just $50 a day. If you go out for meals (work lunches, saturday breakfast at Denny's, On the Border Sunday night etc) 2 days a week, that would take the spend down to $1100 or so. But those 8 days of meals would eat up $800 or so of discretionary spend.
1500 or $50 a day also includes stuff like cleaning products, hygiene, TP, etc. $1000-1200 would be low budget/thrifty for a family of 4 in my opinion. That's under $3 per meal without including snacks, toiletries, cleaning, dog food, etc.
Comfortable to me (which is where I think we are in my house) would include meals, healthy snacks, Gatorade for the kids after practice, beer after work, charcoal for grilling etc.
So just for a day:
Cereal for the kids, bacon and eggs for me and the wife, coffee, and OJ for breakfast. $10
Salads/Sandwiches/Chips and a soda for lunch: $10
Burgers/Fries/Water or tea and a beer for dad for dinner $20+
Snacks/drinks $5
Household shìt $5 (TP, toothpaste, water filter for fridge, ziplock, trash bags, deodorant, shampoo, etc)
So $50 a day goes fast. Add in the waste of leftovers or stuff that goes bad before ever cooking and for the comfortable category, $1500 is fair for a family of 4 that shops mostly at Kroger with some Costco and Whole Foods on occasion. $1200 would fit into the somewhat budgeting crowd (IE shop at Wal Mart or Costco 90% of the time) crowd. $1000 is very much the thrifty hamburger helper with white bread for dinner and canned veggies strategy.
Just a heads up (as if any of you need it) but my wife and I paid into Medicare our entire working careers and we are on it now. We still pay about $1,200/month for medicare, supplemental insurance and (half asz) drug coverage comparable to being on a good group plan. By time we pay our out of pockets, deductibles and such we are closer to $1,500 (and we are relatively healthy) . I AM NOT TELLING YALL THIS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT WHAT WE PAY , I am grateful for what we have. I'm just saying if you're planning for retirement figure your healthcare costs on the high side....God knows what yall will be facing.
I wasn't arguing for or against anything. I listed large spending categories and cited why cutting each could hurt.
For military, I took an obvious biased slat to my comment, and then added acknowledgement that maintaining a large defense budget can be seen as beneficial.
I fully recognize there are benefits and drawbacks to increasing or decreasing spending in any of the categories.
I've never broken down what we spend by meal, but the number I gave is basically just what we spend at any grocery store, walmart, and sam's. So that is all household goods unless there is something abnormal. If I spend $150 at walmart on tools/supplies or a gift, I'll exclude that. If it's a air filters or a plunger or whatever, it just goes in groceries.
So our meals must be cheap as **** because we do have expensive snacks and stuff for kids. Or I guess not expensive for snacks, but as far as additional spending that doesn't replace meals, it's a lot. We do replace a lot of at home meals with eating out. We do a ton of pickup where it might be $40 of pizza or mexican or chinese or whatever relatively cheap meal that will end up feeding everybody at least twice. And we don't have a lot of waste of actual meals. Guess that's leftover from how I grew up, but I usually choke down some leftovers for lunch before I let stuff go bad.
I will say this is not us. The only "unhealthy" cheap filler we really have is noodles in our spaghetti. We do a lot of ground beef, but it's organic grass fed lean (I'm not sure we're not getting scammed on that but that's what my wife buys). We do a lot of frozen vegetables or fresh vegetables. We do add canned beans to some meals, particularly mexican themed. Lots of rotisserie chickens and frozen chicken depending on what we're making. But how we eat is probably a testament to my wife doing a good job cooking and shopping. We are pretty repetitive with our meals. Have basically 6 that we are doing a lot, another 6 that we mix in and out. Throw in pizza, chinese, and mexican, and that is pretty much our food.
Defense spending as economic stimulus reveals your general philosophy. Have you considered that money not spent by the government is money not wasted by the government? For example, if we cut defense spending in half, we'd have the largest defense budget in the world and nearly half a trillion dollars that would remain in the economy.
Every penny spent on defense should have a defense objective and justification, not economic stimulus. The problem is if we did cut defense spending, that money would be spent by the government elsewhere.
Fair enough. One thing that I've been doing for years is saving for retirement and enjoying travel while I can, not knowing what the future holds. If in fact I work until some tragic diagnoses, it will not be one of those cases that all I did was work and then lose my chance to enjoy life while I could. I'm doing that now and planning for the future. I also work hard to do stay in shape physically. I want to live until I die, to the extent that my behavior can help that, and I certainly don't want some diagnosis that prematurely removes me from this earth due to something I've done/not done. I've seen that play out too.I'm not disagreeing, but I would add that the assumption by an individual that they can work to 65 is a much more unhealthy one. Plan to be able to retire earlier than you want, then choose to work longer under your terms at the end. Or at least, prioritize that before Escalades and McMansions IMO.
My most recent boss has been considering retirement for a while, kept pushing it off. Just got a cancer diagnosis. Who knows if he'll ever actually get to enjoy retirement now. The extra million or two he earned, he can't take it with him. On the other hand, generational wealth is more important than ever, and if you can pass that down isn't it worth a few years of easy work?
I was just reading an article about "flextirement", how transitioning to part time work before full retirement is much better for the retirees and the employers. I hope it takes off, that's what I hope to do in a few years.
I see all these young engineers buying large houses in this market, and just shake my head. You don't have kids, go buy a small house in a rural area and save up rather than pay 8% on a half million. That's $40k a year in interest! You could be laid off tomorrow and have to move across the country! But they all want to host parties and such. To each their own. I just don't think they actually realize the cost.
I plan to be able to retire at 50 with everything i want (not far off now), but work to 55. But by then, with teenagers rather than toddlers, maybe I change my mind. All I know is that when I do have time off I have more than enough to keep me occupied, and I wish I had more time off when it's time to go back to work.
Woah woah woah, effective tax rate discussion...from J85? Whaaaaaaat? Ok ok, do billionaires now.
Recently had a friend die from cancer who literally (where did literally police go anyway?) never took the family on a vacation until after his diagnosis. Very sad. They made the most of his last couple of years, but that was somewhat limted, depending on how treatment was affecting him at the time.
Good lord, you clearly have an agenda or point to make and you are going to force that point to be made, regardless of if its applicable or not.
Again- my prior post did not really show my opinion as to if I think defense spending should be an economic stimulus or not. I did not give an opinion on that. What I did do, was recognize that defense spending could be viewed as an economic stimulus.
How is it that you dont understand the difference between someone giving an opinion and someone recognizing a viewpoint that exists?
You must shoot a lot of messengers because you think they believe whatever message they deliver.
Yeah we are in the same boat. You spend $1000-$1200 on "groceries" a month but probably eat 10-20% of food outside of home so +/- $40-50 a day if it's all at home meals and snacks.
I just remember bìtching at my wife about her grocery spend once and I realized how expensive it is to feed a picky women, 2 growing boys, a 100 lb dog, and an old fat man that craves large amounts of alcohol and rich fatty proteins.
Related to spending by meal, I never eat fast food. Recently ran through Wendy's because I was pressed for time. Nearly $50 for 4 tragically unhealthy meals. It's been so long since I did fast food that I got sticker shock.
We have lived how long without the major threat of war on our nation and attack on the USA? And how many other countries have enjoyed that privilige provided by the blanket of the USA? We just don't have any clue at times...
"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know."
"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know."
These cost to live comfortably and the best cities to raise kids in studies typically don't mention things that most people with half a brain can figure out with these studies because it sounds rude and elitist. Living comfortably means paying extra to avoid living around the bottom quintile or at least avoid living around people with chaotic lives who behave in ways most responsible people don't want their kids to adopt. Here's something on Costco which mentions that the membership fee is really a way to keep miscreants and people who behave poorly out. It lets you shop in peace. I fly Delta and you'll never catch me on a Frontier or Spirit flight for that reason.
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Yep. I recommend any young healthy person to get a low deductible high premium plan and start putting money aside in an HSA ASAP. The tax benefits are outstanding and when you cash out (hopefully when old and retired) you can apply that to Medicare premiums among a bunch of other medical expenses. Take low medical costs in your younger years as a win and save for when your body starts breaking down and you have less income.
The going out part sucks. I really don't see how these mid-level chain restaurants survive, what is the value in reheated not-good Applebees food for $100 a family?
Costco also pays their employees more, does not open until 10am so everything can be stocked and ready from 8 to 10 for better hours for emplyees. And they will check to make sure that you are not sharing your membership card with friends and families every now and then. They also do a better job of user trials for food and new products before bringing them in, so your odds are high for you discovering something new that you actually really like. They do need to spend the money on the shopping cart robots so that employees dont have to push them back up manually - that is crazy.
So from '62 to '22, the % of federal spending on military dropped, and the % of spending on poverty and medical coverage increased.
I do believe % gains in wealth/income were largely equal amongst socioeconomic classes around that same start time, and % gains in wealth/income are now wildly imbalanced.
Perhaps the reality that wealth/income gains have become overwhelmingly concentrated at the top over the last 40 years helps explain why social welfare program spending has increased in that same time period.
Below are 2 charts that show about 40 years of income gains data to the right of green lines, along with the green line on your chart showing the same 4 decades.
It isnt exact, but boy it sure makes it easy to see that social welfare spending increased in the time period when income gains didnt keep pace amongst socioeconomic classes.
Membership has benefits. Membership matters. You don't see the retail theft there that you see in stores that have open admissions. You see lower middle class and working class people there who understand what poorly behaving people can do to those who want to enjoy life.
I don't think a lot of people realize just how much we spend on welfare programs. We spend an enormous amount on welfare and education along with defense spending, something that eats up a smaller percentage of GDP. So what are we getting for all that welfare spending?
I live in a neighborhood that has the highest HOA fees in our city. We have several equally nice neighborhoods with lower fees and I'm pissed that I have to pay so much. But it does keep out the riff raff. I have a lot of neighbors who, like me, grew up modestly and in neighborhoods with no HOA fees and in relatively cheap houses. I went to look at my old neighborhood recently and it has some nice, modest houses and run-down houses with crap littering the yards. I wouldn't want to live there although it wasn't like that growing up.
Some of it helping people that genuinely need it. Some of it to keep generational idiocracy tucked away from view of the educated and/or well resourced.
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