PA House and Senate pass PSU/Pitt/Temple funding bill (not what they were expecting)

[PSUFTG2]

UPDATE: PA General Assembly approves flat funding for Penn State, sends bill to Gov. Shapiro | WPSU

As some may remember, the Universities were expecting a 7% increase.

The House said "Ok, but you have to commit to a one year tuition freeze"
PSU said, essentially, "We can't do that". Pitt and Temple said, essentially, "Not happy, lets talk more"

Apparently the folks in Harrisburg said "Fine, no increased funding"

House bill has 7% increase w required tuition freeze, Senate 0% increase w/o mandated freeze.

The House then said, "Yep, we'll go along w the Senate Bill"

Buckle up.

The bill as passed also had this companion requirement:

"Under the new rules, the universities will have to provide the salaries of officers and directors and how much the top-paid 200 employees are paid. Other requirements include providing budget information for academic and administrative departments, units’ travel expenses and minutes from board of trustees meetings."

I can say, from personal experience, most of the information being asked for, by the folks in Harrisburg, is information that most (if not all) other Big Ten public universities already provide (in much more detail, and more user friendly format).
Every Big ten public that I have asked for the information, provided it quickly and easily. No fuss, no muss (but I haven't gotten around to asking them all - and Northwestern, being a Private of course, I have never asked or been interested in).

 

[Nitt1300]

smarter move than I ever expected from Harrisburg

 

[NittPicker]

"Under the new rules, the universities will have to provide the salaries of officers and directors and how much the top-paid 200 employees are paid. Other requirements include providing budget information for academic and administrative departments, units’ travel expenses and minutes from board of trustees meetings."

Minutes from board meetings?? That'll be hard to get from PSU considering how it seems many of their important meetings are held behind closed doors. Some members scoff at accountability.

 

[Nitt1300]

Minutes from board meetings?? That'll be hard to get from PSU considering how it seems many of their important meetings are held behind closed doors. Most members scoff at accountability.

fify

 

[BobPSU92]

Neeli: Crap. This is not what I meant by an accountability report.

 

[StamfordBridgeVikingatLeftOffensiveTackle]

Funding for Pa. state-related universities passes Legislature • Pennsylvania Capital-Star

The General Assembly on Wednesday sent a bill to Gov. Josh Shapiro’s desk, after months of wrangling, that will fund state-related colleges and universities. The Senate voted 45-5 to pass legislation to provide level funding for state-related schools Penn State University, the University of...

www.penncapital-star.com

 

[Nitt1300]

Funding for Pa. state-related universities passes Legislature • Pennsylvania Capital-Star

The General Assembly on Wednesday sent a bill to Gov. Josh Shapiro’s desk, after months of wrangling, that will fund state-related colleges and universities. The Senate voted 45-5 to pass legislation to provide level funding for state-related schools Penn State University, the University of...

www.penncapital-star.com

thanks- that made me laugh out loud

 

[Midnighter]

The money is going to come from somewhere folks.

 

[PSUFTG2]

The money is going to come from somewhere folks.

The bigger issue is, Where is it all going to go?

If that never gets solved, there is, truly, no hope.

A little accountability might have a positive impact. Pissing away more good money after bad - with no constraints - won't help.

We all know PSU could bring in $100 million less (let alone $15 million less) and REDUCE tuition (and other things) simply by operating at anywhere in the neighborhood of "responsibly". If it doesn't? Oy! Throwing more piles of cash onto a bonfire is generally considered sub-optimal

 

[Bison13]

The bigger issue is, Where is it all going to go?

If that never gets solved, there is, truly, no hope.

A little accountability might have a positive impact. Pissing away more good money after bad - with no constraints - won't help.

We all know PSU could bring in $100 million less (let alone $15 million less) and REDUCE tuition (and other things) simply by operating at anywhere in the neighborhood of "responsibly". If it doesn't? Oy! Throwing more piles of cash onto a bonfire is generally considered sub-optimal

you mean giving out construction bids that are at least 1.5 X the going rate isn't being responsible?

 

[Nitt1300]

you mean giving out construction bids that are at least 1.5 X the going rate isn't being responsible?

kickbacks aren't cheap

 

[Ghost of OM]

UPDATE: PA General Assembly approves flat funding for Penn State, sends bill to Gov. Shapiro | WPSU

As some may remember, the Universities were expecting a 7% increase.

The House said "Ok, but you have to commit to a one year tuition freeze"
PSU said, essentially, "We can't do that". Pitt and Temple said, essentially, "Not happy, lets talk more"

Apparently the folks in Harrisburg said "Fine, no increased funding"

House bill has 7% increase w required tuition freeze, Senate 0% increase w/o mandated freeze.

The House then said, "Yep, we'll go along w the Senate Bill"

Buckle up.

The bill as passed also had this companion requirement:

"Under the new rules, the universities will have to provide the salaries of officers and directors and how much the top-paid 200 employees are paid. Other requirements include providing budget information for academic and administrative departments, units’ travel expenses and minutes from board of trustees meetings."

I can say, from personal experience, most of the information being asked for, by the folks in Harrisburg, is information that most (if not all) other Big Ten public universities already provide (in much more detail, and more user friendly format).
Every Big ten public that I have asked for the information, provided it quickly and easily. No fuss, no muss (but I haven't gotten around to asking them all - and Northwestern, being a Private of course, I have never asked or been interested in).

Penn State has been completing those requirements for going on 30 years Barry. It’s known as the Stairs-Rhodes report. If you took more time to learn rather than stir sh!!, you’d already know that. But maybe you just like to stir sh!! Gotta be good at something I guess.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

UPDATE: PA General Assembly approves flat funding for Penn State, sends bill to Gov. Shapiro | WPSU

As some may remember, the Universities were expecting a 7% increase.

The House said "Ok, but you have to commit to a one year tuition freeze"
PSU said, essentially, "We can't do that". Pitt and Temple said, essentially, "Not happy, lets talk more"

Apparently the folks in Harrisburg said "Fine, no increased funding"

House bill has 7% increase w required tuition freeze, Senate 0% increase w/o mandated freeze.

The House then said, "Yep, we'll go along w the Senate Bill"

Buckle up.

The bill as passed also had this companion requirement:

"Under the new rules, the universities will have to provide the salaries of officers and directors and how much the top-paid 200 employees are paid. Other requirements include providing budget information for academic and administrative departments, units’ travel expenses and minutes from board of trustees meetings."

I can say, from personal experience, most of the information being asked for, by the folks in Harrisburg, is information that most (if not all) other Big Ten public universities already provide (in much more detail, and more user friendly format).
Every Big ten public that I have asked for the information, provided it quickly and easily. No fuss, no muss (but I haven't gotten around to asking them all - and Northwestern, being a Private of course, I have never asked or been interested in).

File this under, "Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it".

 

[PSUFTG2]

Penn State has been completing those requirements for going on 30 years Barry. It’s known as the Stairs-Rhodes report. If you took more time to learn rather than stir sh!!, you’d already know that. But maybe you just like to stir sh!! Gotta be good at something I guess.

Stairs reports (for PSU and other State-Related) can be found here (though they are more than a bit slow in getting them updated/posted):
2021-2022 Stairs Reports (pa.gov)
I have used them myself for many years.

Of course, the accountability concerns being asked for by the folks in Harrisburg go beyond that.
Perhaps, if you are unhappy with the feedback coming from the folks in Harrisburg, you should chat with them.

 

[PSU Mike]

So what’s the math here? What % tuition increase is equivalent to 7% difference in state funding?

 

[StamfordBridgeVikingatLeftOffensiveTackle]

https://www.psu.edu/news/administration/story/general-assembly-approves-penn-states-2023-24-state-funding/

 

[NittPicker]

So what’s the math here? What % tuition increase is equivalent to 7% difference in state funding?

I don't know the answer to the question but if there's a financial pinch maybe Old Main will resort to what it did a handful of years ago. The solution back then was to admit more out-of-state students so they could generate revenue due to the higher tuition. I'd like to see the stats showing the annual percentage of in-state undergrads vs. out-of-state undergrads for the past two decades.

 

[PSUFTG2]

I don't know the answer to the question but if there's a financial pinch maybe Old Main will resort to what it did a handful of years ago. The solution back then was to admit more out-of-state students so they could generate revenue due to the higher tuition. I'd like to see the stats showing the annual percentage of in-state undergrads vs. out-of-state undergrads for the past two decades.

At UP?

Roughly 25% OOS (if also counting International) to 50% OOS

That tap has pretty much run dry.
IIRC, our yield on OOS students is around 12% (I'd have to check notes to get exact figure, but in that ballpark - and FAR lower than that for high quality OOS applicants). For every seat PSU feels they need to fill with an OOS tuition paying student - they have to offer admission to around 8-9 of them. (Yield on In-State, IIRC, is in the low 40% range - a difference which is perfectly predictable, for any number of reasons, including tuition $$$)

That OOS pool, at current tuition costs, has essentially been fished out, aside from the catfish. No one on the BOT, or Admin seems to be willing to recognize any of those facts (or the implications). It is kinda' sad.

 

[PSUFTG2]

So what’s the math here? What % tuition increase is equivalent to 7% difference in state funding?

Roughly equal to 1% of total tuition revenue - though that assumes a solitary straight-line relationship, which is not quite reality.

Reducing waste and bloat by only a small fraction would yield far more in savings than the drop in state funding, for example.
I hope we soon see some movement on that front.

 

[ApexLion]

UPDATE: PA General Assembly approves flat funding for Penn State, sends bill to Gov. Shapiro | WPSU

As some may remember, the Universities were expecting a 7% increase.

The House said "Ok, but you have to commit to a one year tuition freeze"
PSU said, essentially, "We can't do that". Pitt and Temple said, essentially, "Not happy, lets talk more"

Apparently the folks in Harrisburg said "Fine, no increased funding"

House bill has 7% increase w required tuition freeze, Senate 0% increase w/o mandated freeze.

The House then said, "Yep, we'll go along w the Senate Bill"

Buckle up.

The bill as passed also had this companion requirement:

"Under the new rules, the universities will have to provide the salaries of officers and directors and how much the top-paid 200 employees are paid. Other requirements include providing budget information for academic and administrative departments, units’ travel expenses and minutes from board of trustees meetings."

I can say, from personal experience, most of the information being asked for, by the folks in Harrisburg, is information that most (if not all) other Big Ten public universities already provide (in much more detail, and more user friendly format).
Every Big ten public that I have asked for the information, provided it quickly and easily. No fuss, no muss (but I haven't gotten around to asking them all - and Northwestern, being a Private of course, I have never asked or been interested in).

We hate transparency. Not gonna happen.

 

[GrimReaper]

We hate transparency. Not gonna happen.

This is what PSU considers to be transparency and accountability:

2023 PSU Accountability Report

 

[PSU Mike]

Roughly equal to 1% of total tuition revenue - though that assumes a solitary straight-line relationship, which is not quite reality.

Reducing waste and bloat by only a small fraction would yield far more in savings than the drop in state funding, for example.
I hope we soon see some movement on that front.

So PSU is better off at the margin by raising tuition 2-3% and taking the 7% “reduction” to state funding, assuming they can’t get a concession from HBG?

 

[HarrisburgDave]

So PSU is better off at the margin by raising tuition 2-3% and taking the 7% “reduction” to state funding, assuming they can’t get a concession from HBG?

I guess. It is so hard to fire a few administrators, limit salaries, and cut operating expenses! That would require leadership and intelligence. Like most public employees and educators making such decisions is beyond the capacity of the administrators.

 

[ValleyForgeLion]

Minutes from board meetings?? That'll be hard to get from PSU considering how it seems many of their important meetings are held behind closed doors. Some members scoff at accountability.

Well thank goodness we'll get minutes of the behind-closed doors meetings now. Maybe it can be retroactive to Nov 2021 and we can see how Kathleen Casey, Dan Deligati, Dave Kleppinger, Mary Lee Schneider, and Matt Schuyler decided to approve Franklin's $90m contract without it being sent to the full BOT.

 

[PSUFTG2]

So PSU is better off at the margin by raising tuition 2-3% and taking the 7% “reduction” to state funding, assuming they can’t get a concession from HBG?

All other things being the same, quantitatively that is correct.

A million ways to skin that cat though. Just on the revenue side, not getting into expenses at all (and all assuming AOTBTS - which can be a tricky assumption):

- Shifting 1% of enrollment from In State to OOS yields roughly the same marginal revenue as the "7%" (of course, you likely further drop academic quality - and maybe p-off any state lawmakers that are paying attention)
- Adding surcharges (higher tuition rates) for certain colleges (as was done again this year for Engineering and Business). Just the INCREASES to surcharges added this year - the incremental increases - yield revenue higher than the "7%". AOTBTS
etc
etc

 

[Keyser Soze 16802]

Roughly equal to 1% of total tuition revenue - though that assumes a solitary straight-line relationship, which is not quite reality.

Reducing waste and bloat by only a small fraction would yield far more in savings than the drop in state funding, for example.
I hope we soon see some movement on that front.

Do you have any sense about how many of the branch campuses break even, how much money could be saved by closing a few low performers, etc.?

I realize the answers are subject to trickery in terms of, for example, how system-wide fixed costs are allocated

 

[BobPSU92]

Well thank goodness we'll get minutes of the behind-closed doors meetings now. Maybe it can be retroactive to Nov 2021 and we can see how Kathleen Casey, Dan Deligati, Dave Kleppinger, Mary Lee Schneider, and Matt Schuyler decided to approve Franklin's $90m contract without it being sent to the full BOT.

November 2021 meeting minutes:

F*ck football. Contract approved.

 

[StamfordBridgeVikingatLeftOffensiveTackle]

November 2021 meeting minutes:

F*ck football. Contract approved.

It was done for the best at the time. That is all. We must abide.

 

[Nitt1300]

Well thank goodness we'll get minutes of the behind-closed doors meetings now. Maybe it can be retroactive to Nov 2021 and we can see how Kathleen Casey, Dan Deligati, Dave Kleppinger, Mary Lee Schneider, and Matt Schuyler decided to approve Franklin's $90m contract without it being sent to the full BOT.

THAT is what you're worried about?

 

[Woodpecker]

What will the state do with the money not taken? Reduce taxes?

 

[manatree]

Do you have any sense about how many of the branch campuses break even, how much money could be saved by closing a few low performers, etc.?

I realize the answers are subject to trickery in terms of, for example, how system-wide fixed costs are allocated

I don’t ever see the state legislature allowing Penn State to close campuses. Everyone’s a fan of reducing the government until it’s their constituents or relatives job’s on the line.

 

[Keyser Soze 16802]

I don’t ever see the state legislature allowing Penn State to close campuses. Everyone’s a fan of reducing the government until it’s their constituents or relatives job’s on the line.

You may be right. The campuses (some of them) may remain albatrosses forever. But the powers that be don't even appear to discuss such matters. Perhaps the equivalent of a corporate spin-off could be done -- PSU turns over an entire campus to the local government and that entity can operate it as community college. Maybe some agreement could be set up where students do 2 years at that college and there is a feeder process to U Park. Win-win scenarios might be possible but chances are we will never know unless PSU faces financial exigency and hands are forced

 

[manatree]

You may be right. The campuses (some of them) may remain albatrosses forever. But the powers that be don't even appear to discuss such matters.

Look at the grand consolidation of the State schools. Instead of making the hard, but fiscally responsible move and close some campuses they took six schools and created three multi-campus schools. Just how is that saving money? Other than a handful of administrators and staff, where’s the savings? Wouldn’t be surprised if the cost of rebranding and printing new stationary cost more than the few positions lost.

 

[Nitt1300]

When the PA Legislature is making more sense than the PSU BOT, you know we're in deep trouble.

 

[dcf4psu]

At UP?

Roughly 25% OOS (if also counting International) to 50% OOS

That tap has pretty much run dry.
IIRC, our yield on OOS students is around 12% (I'd have to check notes to get exact figure, but in that ballpark - and FAR lower than that for high quality OOS applicants). For every seat PSU feels they need to fill with an OOS tuition paying student - they have to offer admission to around 8-9 of them. (Yield on In-State, IIRC, is in the low 40% range - a difference which is perfectly predictable, for any number of reasons, including tuition $$$)

That OOS pool, at current tuition costs, has essentially been fished out, aside from the catfish. No one on the BOT, or Admin seems to be willing to recognize any of those facts (or the implications). It is kinda' sad.

Really all sources are going to be slowing as birth rates decline. We aren't far behind some Asian countries who already have declining populations. The impacts will go far beyond higher education.