Penalty: Defense offside OR offense hands to head?

[bulldoghair]

I’ve seen this several times in the past, but I never hear the argument that this actually should be a 15 yard penalty if anything on the offensive for hands to the head. Thoughts?

 

[pseudonym]

Movement by the offensive line with a defender in the neutral zone is automatically offside on the defense. Usually you see the offensive lineman standup when a defender enters the neutral zone to induce the whistle.

I don’t have a problem with the slap in this case. It’s cooler and more disrespectful than just standing up or pointing.

 

[bulldoghair]

Movement by the offensive line with a defender in the neutral zone is automatically offside on the defense. Usually you see the offensive lineman standup when a defender enters the neutral zone to induce the whistle.

I don’t have a problem with the slap in this case. It’s cooler and more disrespectful than just standing up or pointing.

I get that, but how by rules definition is this not hands to the head penalty? Especially in this day and age.

 

[bulldoghair]

 

[Ozarkdawg]

I get that, but how by rules definition is this not hands to the head penalty? Especially in this day and age.

It is not forcible contact. It doesn't involve any touching, pushing, twisting of the facemask.
If you think about it, there is a lot more contact to helmets during tackles that is not considered targeting for the same reasons.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

I have still yet to figure out why a RB can stiff arm a defender in the facemask and that isn't a penalty, but if the defender's pinky barely grazes the RB's facemask then it's 15 yards. Same thing on why can they lower their head and lead with the crown of the helmet and it not be targeting.

 

[8dog]

I get that, but how by rules definition is this not hands to the head penalty? Especially in this day and age.

Because it’s not a live ball.

 

[bulldoghair]

It is not forcible contact. It doesn't involve any touching, pushing, twisting of the facemask.
If you think about it, there is a lot more contact to helmets during tackles that is not considered targeting for the same reasons.

I’ve seen plenty of pass rushers called for less or the same on a quarterback. Have you not?

 

[bulldoghair]

Because it’s not a live ball.

Personal foul penalties are called all the time after the play when it’s not a live ball situation. Before the play after the play, both are not a live ball.

 

[8dog]

Personal foul penalties are called all the time after the play when it’s not a live ball situation. Before the play after the play, both are not a live ball.

Yes. Thats unsportsmanlike conduct. I thought you were asking about hands to the face. Doubtful this is ever going to be unsportsmanlike conduct. It’s not bad at all.

 

[bulldoghair]

Yes. Thats unsportsmanlike conduct. I thought you were asking about hands to the face. Doubtful this is ever going to be unsportsmanlike conduct. It’s not bad at all.

Again this begs the same question, slapping someone in the head is always unsportsmanlike conduct and a personal foul in every other football related instance. I get touching them on the shoulder pad, but this is something different, according to the rules.

 

[8dog]

Again this begs the same question, slapping someone in the head is always unsportsmanlike conduct and a personal foul in every other football related instance. I get touching them on the shoulder pad, but this is something different, according to the rules.

Meh. Now you are getting into the subjectivity of it. It looks like nothing to me. But yes someone could call it UC

 

[GloryDawg]

I am surprised that didn't cause a flop.

 

[Ozarkdawg]

I’ve seen plenty of pass rushers called for less or the same on a quarterback. Have you not?

I’ve seen plenty of pass rushers called for less or the same on a quarterback. Have you not?

You answered your own question. It wasn't a quarterback.
Had he shoved him so hard in the head that he knocked the guy back or down, it probably gets called but not a tap in that situation.

Also, I've seen opposing coaches shove the other team's quarterback and not get a flag. Have you not?

 

[bulldoghair]

You answered your own question. It wasn't a quarterback.
Had he shoved him so hard in the head that he knocked the guy back or down, it probably gets called but not a tap in that situation.

Also, I've seen opposing coaches shove the other team's quarterback and not get a flag. Have you not?

Again, based on the rule, how is this not hands to the head or illegal contact to the head? I gave a pass rush to QB example sure, but there have been tons of interior linemen incidents that have resulted in the same penalty called ect. What is the rule, and based on the rule how is this not a penalty?

 

[Ozarkdawg]

Again, based on the rule, how is this not hands to the head or illegal contact to the head? I gave a pass rush to QB example sure, but there have been tons of interior linemen incidents that have resulted in the same penalty called ect. What is the rule, and based on the rule how is this not a penalty?

In this NFL video, it's not because it's a close line play and NOT forceful contact. Outside the line, even non-forceful would be a penalty. Not sure, but I suspect college rule is similar.

Illegal Use of Hands / Facemask | NFL Football Operations

operations.nfl.com

 

[bulldoghair]

In this NFL video, it's not because it's a close line play and NOT forceful contact. Outside the line, even non-forceful would be a penalty. Not sure, but I suspect college rule is similar.

Illegal Use of Hands / Facemask | NFL Football Operations

operations.nfl.com

Thanks for the link. It says, “Contact in close-line play that is not direct and forcible is not a foul.”

Although, this is before the play, there is no attempt to block, and it seems pretty direct on him intentionally smacking him in the head pretty good. I get your point and interpretation, but this to me still doesn’t fall into that definition exactly.