Postgame (Mich.) bltch thread
- Thread starter Phlebitis
- Start date
This is true, and for as much as we all loved Joe, his best coaching days were behind him by the time we entered the B1G. He definitely stayed longer than he should have. But the resources are available at State to match those 2 programs, and something within our AD’s DNA just doesn’t seem to want to push through to maximize our potential. We’re kinda like UGA in terms of our history…they were a good (not great) program for a lot of years and it just took the right coach to get them over the hurdle. I have no doubt we could be similar, IF our higher ups truly wanted to be.
Because he’s a good college coach. He pulled Temple up to a good level and then took over a Baylor team that was in bad shape and got them to 10 wins PDQ.
If you saw his Temple teams, they were solid, well coached.
This is just wasting bandwidth, however. If Franklin’s buyout is that high, a university that’s running huge deficits won’t be able to make the move so don’t worry about it.
4th and 6 yards to go, scUM 39 yard line, 3rd quarter, plenty of time in the game, CJF goes for it only down 24-17. He fails to get it on 4th down (as we do all the time). Gets stopped and opponent gets all the momentum and is off to the races from there on out. CJF does not have the steel nerves needed to stick to good football: play fricking field position!
Well, that settles it. Sign the man up for another 10 years.
Nice post. But I’m not so sure that decision rests on the AD or the HC. It’s the Brass up top that has to give the nod first. The AD will not risk 1.3 mil (including incentives) and Franklin is definitely not going to risk 7 mil per year. You can hire the very best HC and assistants but that alone will not get you there.
Why don't we all just pile on to this beating by listing out all the teams we could lose to, if we played them, even though we don't ... OR ... why don't you just ...
Agreed. So why is the brass so insistent on pulling PSU back into mediocrity on both the field and in the classroom? Seriously, we’re moving in the wrong direction on a lot of fronts.
Exactly. Forcing everything into one topic exasperates the problem of not having thread view.
Switched over to Syracuse - #15 NC State. Babers is a far superior game coach with much less talent
..horrible facilities, lower paid assistants and 2 star talent yet beat NC ST 24-9 to move to 6-0. Likewise, Clausen has Wake Forest with one loss to Clemson in OT. Seems like some coaches can compete every 4 years or more
..horrible facilities, lower paid assistants and 2 star talent yet beat NC ST 24-9 to move to 6-0. Likewise, Clausen has Wake Forest with one loss to Clemson in OT. Seems like some coaches can compete every 4 years or more
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Elsdon and Sutherland shouldn't be playing, along with Tarburton and Issac.
I’ve been watching the Alabama vs Tennessee game. Very little difference between the NFL and these two programs. Ask yourself one question how did Josh Heupel do so well at UCF and turn around Tennessee so fast? It starts with the people at the very top—>AD—>HC—>recruits.
Let the record show we're currently 5-1 on the season.
You may now recommence jumping off the bridge ...
You may now recommence jumping off the bridge ...
The tackling today was as bad as I’ve seen. We have guys consistently taking awful angles and running right by guys. And for the love of ******* god, if I have to watch one more guy try to tackle someone without using their arms and simply diving at them with their shoulder I am going to lose my mind. If I were a coach and I ever saw a guy try to tackle someone without using their arms they wouldn’t see the field again that day. It’s crazy.
You totally nailed it!
We should go after Babers, who would obviously be an improvement over Franklin. After all, the guy has gone 4-8, 4-8, 10-3, 5-7, 1-10, 5-7 in his seasons at Cuse before this year. That's awesome!
Maybe, instead, we should go after this guy who took over a wretched program stuck in the top conference in the nation, and finished 6-7, 9-4 and 9-4 in his 3 seasons there despite horrible facilities, lower paid assistants, and 2 star talent in a much better conference than Babers. Led his squad to a bowl game in each of those seasons (a program first).
Shirley, THAT guy is a farer superiorer game coach than even the great Babers!
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Just a reminder - Michigan replaced two OL starters from Joe Moore Award winning 2021 team but..
..I hear Trautwein had a good rushing year at BC once upon a time, during one of their losing seasons. How many times would we hear 'young' if we replaced two OL starters as reason for shite performance?
..I hear Trautwein had a good rushing year at BC once upon a time, during one of their losing seasons. How many times would we hear 'young' if we replaced two OL starters as reason for shite performance?
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NFL and Alabama for sure. Watching the game as well and all I keep thinking is if PSU were playing in this game we would be getting annihilated regardless of it were Alabama or Tennessee. Many of our current players were likely offered by these teams or ones at similar talent levels and to play like we did today after a bye week in my opinion is a reflection of coaching.
I said a better coach so apologists can't say we were never going to compete this year for BT championship. Many coaches are competing at top level with much, much less. We got doors blown off against our first top team of year. If we were getting rid of James, there would be a dozen coaches on list. As I write this, Heupel tops Alabama in 2nd season.
I don't disagree, but Joe basically stopped doing in-home recruiting visits in what - 2000? I mean, Tom Bradley was the guy he sent to seal the deal on Pryor (and I think we all think the world of Bradley). That said, when you have a HC who has no interest in recruiting, hires his unqualified son to be OC, and keeps staff around way too long, expectations aren't very high. When Joe did manage to pull in a good class, results down the road were generally pretty good/above expectation (B1G Champs in 05, 08). Rivals recruiting only goes back to 2002. Here were Joe's class rankings:
2002 - 21
2003 - 92
2004 - 14
2005 - 25
2006 - 6
2007 - 24
2008 - 43
2009 - 24
2010 - 12
2011 - 35
2012 - 52
Avg. Recruiting Class Ranking - 31 (rounding down)
So, I think most fans were pretty happy to make a decent bowl with those classes. By comparison, Franklin's Rivals class rankings are:
2014 - 24
2015 - 15
2016 - 21
2017 - 12
2018 - 5
2019 - 11
2020 - 15
2021 - 25
2022 - 7
2023* - 12
Avg. Recruiting Class Ranking - 15 (on the dot)
Franklin's worst class is ranked 25. Joe had five classes ranked worse than that with two more years. And in 2011, he was 9-2 - with a win over OSU - heading into the Wisconsin game before everything exploded.
tl;dr - Fair to hold Franklin to a higher standard given his much better recruiting acumen/results when compared to Joe, who quit recruiting a decade before he was forced to retire.
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I was an original supporter of CJF but acknowledge that the results during his tenure are very disappointing. It's not likely that he would have survived at any other FBS 1-A school serious about winning football games. In spite of what some others have said in various threads concerning PSU recruiting being overrated, PSU recruits well enough to have better results. PSU had how many (10?) players make either an active 2022 NFL roster or practice squad from the 2021 roster?
I'm resigned to the thought that PSU will remain a decent to pretty good program as far as on field performance goes while they continue to put talent on NFL rosters. I just hope that for the diehard fanatics, of which I am no longer one, the team has an outlier season every now and then where they make the playoff.
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While many feel this way, it wasn’t all rainbows and unicorns the last decade or more under Paterno. Look, I’m as big a fan of Joe’s overall accomplishments as anyone, but he was 2-9 vs Lloyd Carr. I’m not defending Franklin as there isn’t any defending the lack of preparation for this week or the result, but let’s not pretend Joe won every big game. In fact, his record vs ranked teams near the end of his tenure was pretty underwhelming.
I think it’s pretty evident at this point that barring some major chips falling in PSU’s favor every year, PSU will not accomplish what we would like to see them accomplish under Franklin. I don’t know what the answer is, but I think 2016-2018 was his ceiling here. Just my 2 cents.
Franklin is actually a very emotionally and intellectually weak individual. If the Press, PSU Admin and certain others all align to turn up the heat on James, he will cower and leave.
The problem is that no one wants to "go there" out of fear that their motives will be viewed as "racist"; hence why James will continue to cash his PSU paychecks for at least another 6-7 years.
PSU Football Inc is in a difficult, almost unsolvable, situation but it is a problem created by PSU's Admin and BOT. It is what it is so there's no point in getting too worked up about it.
The problem is that no one wants to "go there" out of fear that their motives will be viewed as "racist"; hence why James will continue to cash his PSU paychecks for at least another 6-7 years.
PSU Football Inc is in a difficult, almost unsolvable, situation but it is a problem created by PSU's Admin and BOT. It is what it is so there's no point in getting too worked up about it.
Seriously? You had to go there? Actually, I’m not surprised you did at all. Bless your heart.
I was absolutely on the CJF train. I think he's a good person, fine representative of the university, decent family man, good recruiter, yadda, yadda, yadda. I just don't think he has the coaching chops to take the talent he has to the next level. My wake up call was the bowl game against Kentucky. Just - so many questionable decisions and we had way more talent. I mean, we lost to OSU by one and MSU by four before getting pounded by Michigan that year (Michigan and OSU were top five teams). He loses a ton of coaches. He's renegotiating his contract every year and a half. He has the same excuses over and over and over. Penn State is paying him big bucks and he's not producing. The contract extension has cemented mediocrity for this program for years to come (his buyout in 2026 is $40mm).
I still like Penn State football - but, I missed most of the game today running around with my kids. I DVR'd the game but won't bother watching. As long as OSU and UM are in it to win it, PSU 's best chance at a CFP appearance will be when they go to 12 teams. Of course, having USC and UCLA in conference aren't going to help us there.
I remember standing in line at the Creamery prior to the PSU-Nebraska game in 2002 and everyone (including me) thought it was time for Paterno to retire. That evening Penn State walloped a #8 (obviously overranked but still) Nebraska. Joe had some pretty good seasons in 2005 and 2008, too. The thing is, Joe was at the twilight of his career (and life) whereas Franklin is, at 50, where Joe was in the mid-70s. At that point, Joe hadn't won a NC but had 3 undefeated seasons and at least 6 top 10 finishes. Granted, things are different now than they were then, but at the end of his career, Joe had some impressive stats. No, Joe didn't win every big game, but I can't remember too many games where Penn State under Paterno was blown out and totally non-competitive like today.
I like everything about Coach Franklin except his coaching ability.
We play football / checkers while every other team is playing football / chess.
We play football / checkers while every other team is playing football / chess.
Curious, other than his personal foul on the first play from scrimmage, did he do anything on D all day?
I can remember some games. One, for example, against Michigan. In 1997 at Beaver Stadium, #4 Michigan beat #2 Penn State by a score of 34-8. PSU was not competitive in that game. Michigan dominated PSU in Beaver Stadium. In the same season, MSU had two backs with over 200 yards in a 49-14 blowout of PSU. Michigan also had shutouts against PSU in both 1998 (27-0 in Ann Arbor) and 2001 (20-0 at Beaver Stadium). Nebraska 44 PSU 6 in the Meadowlands in 1983. Toledo 24 PSU 6 in 2000 at Beaver Stadium. PSU had 30 yards rushing on 27 carries and 166 total yards against Toledo at home. There are others. That does not diminish Joe's greatness. He coached for a long time. Naturally, there would be games where his team was not competitive, and naturally, legends become myths.
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I agree with you completely. I don’t get the infatuation some fans have with recycled fired coaches.
I wonder what Franklin thought about that Stat? I wonder if PSU won the explosive play stat?
Urban Meyer failed in Jacksonville. Would you similarly dismiss him for his failure as an NFL coach?
My comment was specific to Ruhle whom I believe is way overrated. I would hire Urban in a heartbeat.
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