PSU Football Academics???

[PSUFTG2]

Looking at 39 current players sorted by jersey number we have the following. Intends, Would like, and Planning in quotes was taken from their "personal bio" statement on the roster page of gopsusports.

2 - "Intends" to major in Communications
1 - "Would like" to major in Communications
1 - "Intends" to major in Business or Engineering
1 - "Would like" to major in Computer Science
1 - "Would like" to major in Business
2 - "Intends" to major in Business
1 - "Planning" on majoring in Business
1 - "Intends" to major in Sports Medicine. - Someone should tell him that this isn't an undergraduate degree
3 - No mention anywhere

22 - DUS
1 - Rehab and Human Services
2 - Rec Parks
1 - Communications

So, based on the above, does Kraft/Franklin/anyone at PSU take academics seriously?

Very good perspective.

I do not think it is at all unique to PSU (And this includes the Bluest of the P5 Blue Bloods - both academically and educationally), but if you look - nationwide - at Student Athletes entering the big time $$$ college sport of football, and compare their comments upon enrolling - "Plans to study ______" etc - vs what academic pursuits they actually undertake (even those who "earn a degree") - or compare them to the student body at large - the differences are stunning, and consistent.

There are many reasons, and potential reasons, for that (that would go well beyond the scope of this forum). And there are many folks, many constituents, and many forces which all play a role - so it ain't easy. But those issues, in my mind, are far more concerning (and are far more capable of being addressed) than the silly NCAA metrics (which were, we should not forget, "silly metrics" devised by and implemented by the University Presidents, to try to obfuscate their embarrassing performance - so it is not like any of them can point fingers)

 

[PSUFTG2]

Football graduation rate is reported to be 89%. So, I guess 89% of the players eligible to graduate receive degrees in any given year. Is that a relatively simple answer to your relatively simple question?

EVERY player "eligible to graduate" gets a degree (everywhere).
I expect the question was "Of the kids entering PSU on a football scholarship - how many leave w a PSU degree?" (Which used to be "the metric").
That number is certainly not anywhere in the area code of 89% - though I expect it used to be, decades ago (For the record, I have no idea where "89%" came from. I doubt if anyone else knows either. Certainly not any of the folks promulgating that figure as if it where "truth")

 

[GrimReaper]

EVERY player "eligible to graduate" gets a degree (everywhere).
I expect the question was "Of the kids entering PSU on a football scholarship - how many leave w a PSU degree?" (Which used to be "the metric").
That number is certainly not anywhere in the area code of 89% - though I expect it used to be, decades ago (For the record, I have no idea where "89%" came from. I doubt if anyone else knows either. Certainly not any of the folks promulgating that figure as if it where "truth")

Do you honestly believe that Short came up with the numbers and cases cited in his "letter" by his lonesome? If you do, he has some choice real estate he's like to sell you.

 

[Nitwit]

Who would be motivated to cast PSU’s football academic performance in a negative light? What do they have to gain? With all the changes with transfer rules and NIL factors, is this something we should even care about? It’s a professional sport now.

 

[BobPSU92]

Who would be motivated to cast PSU’s football academic performance in a negative light? What do they have to gain? With all the changes with transfer rules and NIL factors, is this something we should even care about? It’s a professional sport now.

It’s nothing new for the local media to be not so friendly to Penn State Football. Outside of david jones being a Tosu douchebag, I don’t know why it is the way it is. It seems that other programs don’t have to deal with this crap.

 

[TiogaLion]

Who would be motivated to cast PSU’s football academic performance in a negative light? What do they have to gain? With all the changes with transfer rules and NIL factors, is this something we should even care about? It’s a professional sport now.

How about this guy?

Wyatt Massey

The mission of Spotlight PA is to hold powerful private and public forces across Pennsylvania — especially government, business and special interests — to account through urgent and compelling investigative journalism that leads to change and the betterment of democracy, the state and all who...

www.spotlightpa.org

 

[PSUFTG2]

Anyone who wants to adopt the "College football is just another pro sports league" conclusion - and choose to root (or not) for whatever team colors they want to root for (just as they would the Eagles, Steelers, Jets or whomever)? I surely wouldn't try to argue that they are wrong. To each their own - and those folks would have plenty of ammo to justify their position. That may even be the majority opinion of most college football fans, if they were being completely honest (or maybe not, I truly wouldn't know)

That said, there are certainly some others who don't view college sports as being (or should be) just another pro sports league - and would also have very valid arguments as to why that is/should be the case.

It is what it is.

 

[HappyValley1]

Who would be motivated to cast PSU’s football academic performance in a negative light? What do they have to gain? With all the changes with transfer rules and NIL factors, is this something we should even care about? It’s a professional sport now.

The same people that ran a NIL collective into the ground and didn’t meet financial commitments for the baseball stadium.

 

[HappyValley1]

How about this guy?

Wyatt Massey

The mission of Spotlight PA is to hold powerful private and public forces across Pennsylvania — especially government, business and special interests — to account through urgent and compelling investigative journalism that leads to change and the betterment of democracy, the state and all who...

www.spotlightpa.org

And who were his “sources”?

Isn't this the same guy who wrote the ridiculous piece on Neeli flying to the Rose Bowl? Maybe I’m remembering incorrectly but I thought it was the same person.

 

[manatree]

Looking at 39 current players sorted by jersey number we have the following. Intends, Would like, and Planning in quotes was taken from their "personal bio" statement on the roster page of gopsusports.

2 - "Intends" to major in Communications
1 - "Would like" to major in Communications
1 - "Intends" to major in Business or Engineering
1 - "Would like" to major in Computer Science
1 - "Would like" to major in Business
2 - "Intends" to major in Business
1 - "Planning" on majoring in Business
1 - "Intends" to major in Sports Medicine. - Someone should tell him that this isn't an undergraduate degree
3 - No mention anywhere

22 - DUS
1 - Rehab and Human Services
2 - Rec Parks
1 - Communications

So, based on the above, does Kraft/Franklin/anyone at PSU take academics seriously?

The majors listed seem to be congruent to the Paterno era. Kinesiology was always a favored major under Paterno.

 

[PSUFTG2]

And who were his “sources”?

The NCAA, obviously.

 

[TiogaLion]

And who were his “sources”?

Isn't this the same guy who wrote the ridiculous piece on Neeli flying to the Rose Bowl? Maybe I’m remembering incorrectly but I thought it was the same person.

Click on the link and scroll down to see all his articles he's written for Spotlight PA.

 

[Nits74]

It’s nothing new for the local media to be not so friendly to Penn State Football. Outside of david jones being a Tosu douchebag, I don’t know why it is the way it is. It seems that other programs don’t have to deal with this crap.

Been like that as long as I can remember.

 

[PSUFTG2]

For those who are interested, the actual data via the NCAA (FWIW): Graduation Success Rate (ncaa.org)

Big Ten Universities Football GSR (that is, almost certainly, the metric cited in the commentary by BS)

2006-2007: PSU, 2nd in B10
2007-08: 2nd
2008-09: 2nd
2009-10: 2nd
2010-11: 2nd
2011-12: 2nd
2012-13: 2nd
2013-14: 2nd

In every one of those years PSU was 2nd behind Northwestern (And LionJim, and others, had plenty of reasons to be proud Seriously. Hey, its straightforward "math")

2014-15: Tied for 4th
2015-16: 5th
2016-17: Tied for 3rd
2017-18: Tied for 8th

At that point, the NCAA changed the metric, to reflect something that is anything but "graduation rates" (one can look it up if they care to):

2018-19: 9th
2019-20: 10th
2020-21: Tied for 7th
2021-22: 6th



Keep in mind, all NCAA measurements have a "6 Year Look Back" - so any actions, positive or negative - won't show up for a while - in the NCAA numbers (which are, IMO pretty lousy measurements - but finding more meaningful metrics takes some effort).

The numbers SPOTLIGHT used in their report were the NCAA's APR rates - a different metric - which had PSU, IIRC, 13th out of 14th. I think Maryland was actually below PSU - but one could check to be sure. I think the SPOTLIGHT article said PSU was 14th, but I think that is in error - or maybe I got it wrong. But, in any event, either 13th or 14th.
Academic Progress Rate (ncaa.org)

Over the last few years, PSU's APR standing in Big Ten for football (for those who are interested. I don't put a ton of weight in them, since the methodology is not congruent with what I think is most meaningful - but your mileage may vary):

2021-22: 13th
2020-21: Tied for 10th
2019-20: NCAA didn't calculate
2018-19: 4th
2017-18: Tied for 5th
2016-17: Tied for 8th
2015-16: 14th (largely due to the "sanctions", as they reflected poorly in how the NCAA did their calculations at the time)

 

[TiogaLion]

For those who are interested, the actual data via the NCAA (FWIW): Graduation Success Rate (ncaa.org)

Big Ten Universities Football GSR (that is, almost certainly, the metric cited in the commentary by BS)

2006-2007: PSU, 2nd in B10
2007-08: 2nd
2008-09: 2nd
2009-10: 2nd
2010-11: 2nd
2011-12: 2nd
2012-13: 2nd
2013-14: 2nd

In every one of those years PSU was 2nd behind Northwestern (And LionJim, and others, had plenty of reasons to be proud Seriously. Hey, its straightforward "math")

2014-15: Tied for 4th
2015-16: 5th
2016-17: Tied for 3rd
2017-18: Tied for 8th

At that point, the NCAA changed the metric, to reflect something that is anything but "graduation rates" (one can look it up if they care to):

2018-19: 9th
2019-20: 10th
2020-21: Tied for 7th
2021-22: 6th

View attachment 394014

Keep in mind, all NCAA measurements have a "6 Year Look Back" - so any actions, positive or negative - won't show up for a while - in the NCAA numbers (which are, IMO pretty lousy measurements - but finding more meaningful metrics takes some effort).


The numbers SPOTLIGHT used in their report were the NCAA's APR rates - a different metric - which had PSU, IIRC, 13th out of 14th. I think Maryland was actually below PSU - but one could check to be sure. I think the SPOTLIGHT article said PSU was 14th, but I think that is in error - or maybe I got it wrong. But, in any event, either 13th or 14th.

Well, we may not be last, but we're no where near Paterno level graduation rates base on the decline from 2014 thru 2018.

 

[LBUfanatic]

Well, may not be last, but we're no where near Paterno level graduation rates base on the decline from 2014 thru 2018.

More kids leaving early for the NFL. More transfers. College football is a completely different game in past 10 years.

 

[PSUFTG2]

More kids leaving early for the NFL. More transfers. College football is a completely different game in past 10 years.

It is different - very different - no question.

But, is it only different at PSU? If so, that's interesting.

If not, then something else is responsible for PSU's significant decline relative to its peers.

 

[BobPSU92]

It is different - very different - no question.

But, is it only different at PSU? If so, that's interesting.

If not, then something else is responsible for PSU's significant decline relative to its peers.

We used to joke about saban processing kids. Does Franklin process more kids than the typical P5 program? We do see a good number of kids leave PSU after the season. Are we on the high side of kids entering the portal?

 

[GrimReaper]

More kids leaving early for the NFL. More transfers. College football is a completely different game in past 10 years.

Except that players transferring or leaving early for the NFL will tend to push the GSR up, though not always.

GSR didn't exist for most of Paterno's tenure. Same phenomena would push the measure then in use, Fed grad rate, down.

 

[GrimReaper]

We used to joke about saban processing kids. Does Franklin process more kids than the typical P5 program? We do see a good number of kids leave PSU after the season. Are we on the high side of kids entering the portal?

Either that or there are more kids who are academically ineligible (or both). I can't tell you which.

 

[PSUFTG2]

We used to joke about saban processing kids. Does Franklin process more kids than the typical P5 program? We do see a good number of kids leave PSU after the season. Are we on the high side of kids entering the portal?

At one time, PSU was the highest in the Big Ten (2nd was Michigan under Harbaugh, which kind of surprised me). But its been a few years since I ran those numbers. My guess is PSU is no longer first - or worst - in that category (but I couldn't be sure).

Just anecdotally, I would guess Maryland is very high in that regard.

One very interesting - to me - tidbit:
Generally, nationwide, processing numbers shoot way up during coaching transitions (ala Neon at Colorado). PSU and Michigan had/have very stable coaching situations - and yet were, IIRC, #1 and #2 in the Big Ten at one time.

 

[ODShowtime]

None of that matters to me anymore. Joe did it the right way and the NCAA and school itself **** all over him. Now I just want Penn State to win. Don’t go to class, don’t graduate, buy the players, whatever. At this point, just win baby!

Certainly we now know our reward for taking pride in doing things the right way.

 

[BW Lion]

I don’t care about APR, GSR, MPG or a student-athlete getting a PSU degree …. it’s all about winning.