Reclassification from D1…

[Maroon Eagle]

@615dawg has mentioned it a few times in recent posts.

St. Francis (PA) which lost last week to Alabama State in the First Four will be going to Division 3 in 2026.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-b...t-francis-first-four-loss-moving-division-iii

 

[columbiadawg2]

Think this will be a trend moving forward

 

[615dawg]

Small privates aren't going to be able to stay Division I. By 2030, the Presbyterian, Abilene Christian, Elon-type schools will have to drop to D3.

What no one in my circles can figure out is what is going to happen in D2. North Alabama/West Georgia/Valdosta State (and West Florida is about to announce) saw the writing on the wall and jumped to FCS.

Delta State and West Alabama are stuck in a bad place. The Arkansas D2s have the Oklahoma schools to keep them company. There's enough public D2s in Oklahoma and Texas to get through it.

The Gulf South Conferfence, once a D2 powerhouse conference full of national champs on a yearly basis, is a shell of its old self and is mostly private colleges that will be looking at D3 soon. Alabama-Huntsville and Auburn-Montgomery are there, but they don't play football. Delta State and West Alabama will have three choices:

1. Go Division I FCS (and both schools are losing money on athletics at a high rate already)
2. Find a new conference home with the Texas/Arkansas/Oklahoma schools (which are in better shape for now, but do they want to travel to MS and AL?)
3. Drop football like MC did.

MUW has an odd problem too. Right now, they are D3 and a member of the St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference. Yes, you read that right. They play in a conference with a bunch of teams in the St. Louis area. The issue is that many of those SLIAC schools are in financial trouble like Birmingham Southern, and one has announced its closure. MUW as a public college has no chance of getting into one of the D3 conferences in the footprint, so they will probably have to drop athletics again. That president at MUW is a disaster.

The changing landscape of big time college athletics is having a domino effect on all levels of college athletics, which removes opportunities from young men and women. I read an article that stated that 30,000-40,000 roster spots on college sports teams will be eliminated by 2030.

Riley Gaines had a good tweet about it yesterday - focused on swimming and diving but its coming for all non-revenue spots.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Small privates aren't going to be able to stay Division I. By 2030, the Presbyterian, Abilene Christian, Elon-type schools will have to drop to D3.

FWIW, Abilene Christian’s current conference — the WAC — is also in the midst of yet another and maybe possibly an ultimate Exodus.

Seattle leaves for the WCC this year & Grand Canyon (Mountain West) and California Baptist (Big West) are gone next year.

Stephen F Austin & UTRGV moved to the Southland last year.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Small privates aren't going to be able to stay Division I. By 2030, the Presbyterian, Abilene Christian, Elon-type schools will have to drop to D3.

What no one in my circles can figure out is what is going to happen in D2. North Alabama/West Georgia/Valdosta State (and West Florida is about to announce) saw the writing on the wall and jumped to FCS.

Delta State and West Alabama are stuck in a bad place. The Arkansas D2s have the Oklahoma schools to keep them company. There's enough public D2s in Oklahoma and Texas to get through it.

The Gulf South Conferfence, once a D2 powerhouse conference full of national champs on a yearly basis, is a shell of its old self and is mostly private colleges that will be looking at D3 soon. Alabama-Huntsville and Auburn-Montgomery are there, but they don't play football. Delta State and West Alabama will have three choices:

1. Go Division I FCS (and both schools are losing money on athletics at a high rate already)
2. Find a new conference home with the Texas/Arkansas/Oklahoma schools (which are in better shape for now, but do they want to travel to MS and AL?)
3. Drop football like MC did.

MUW has an odd problem too. Right now, they are D3 and a member of the St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference. Yes, you read that right. They play in a conference with a bunch of teams in the St. Louis area. The issue is that many of those SLIAC schools are in financial trouble like Birmingham Southern, and one has announced its closure. MUW as a public college has no chance of getting into one of the D3 conferences in the footprint, so they will probably have to drop athletics again. That president at MUW is a disaster.

The changing landscape of big time college athletics is having a domino effect on all levels of college athletics, which removes opportunities from young men and women. I read an article that stated that 30,000-40,000 roster spots on college sports teams will be eliminated by 2030.

Riley Gaines had a good tweet about it yesterday - focused on swimming and diving but its coming for all non-revenue spots.

Yes, our Olympic medal counts will suck.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Small privates aren't going to be able to stay Division I.

Small privates won't do much of anything.

That's facts.

But going down a division is going to increase the chances of the death knell for their entire athletic program. They may develop the old club style system used in the 19 aughts, teens, and 20s, if they even decide to keep teams, but scholarships and loads of travel will not be an option.

Large team sports including football will go quickly over the next ten years and it will impact more than our small privates. Some of our publics - like Delta State, Valley, the 'corn - will not be playing football in 2035.

Southern too... then you know who.

 

[mstateglfr]

MUW has an odd problem too. Right now, they are D3 and a member of the St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference. Yes, you read that right. They play in a conference with a bunch of teams in the St. Louis area.

This reminds me of a couple absurd D3 conferences.
- UC Santa Cruz is in the 'Coast to Coast' conference alongside schools in North Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland. That is completely insane for a D3 university in California.
- The 'University Athletic Association' conference is a bunch of smart schools that are all over the map. Chicago, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Manhattan, St Louis, etc. They all have multi-billion dollar endowments and are elites so they are fine for money, but again- D3 is putting in the miles!

Riley Gaines had a good tweet about it yesterday - focused on swimming and diving but its coming for all non-revenue spots.

I dont follow her or really pay attention to her. I am pleasantly surprised she comments on things outside of what has made her famous/infamous. Whipping up oversized outrage can only last so long.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

If you’re not making money at football or can’t project to or see a realized benefit, it will get cut out. I don’t know where that dividing line is. It’s an expensive sport to administer.

I could see those schools that do cut football, still hanging around in non-revenue sports because they are cheaper to administer.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

travel with overnight stays is a budget buster so even Olympic sports are going to be hard for many schools.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I have a theory that we’ve created this sports economy based on millions of athletes getting college scholarships but getting exercise degrees. Now now we have tournaments training facilities everywhere after those folks flamed out with nothing to show but pride in the old days and shaved arms.

Maybe it would be good to stop prioritizing sports and maybe get back to things that matter. Because at the end of the day, except for the few people who make money…..sports really do not.

Sucks because I grew up with them but maybe we need to be more in STEM and combat skills. Or arts. Or raising food.

Of course there will always be a need for entertainment and recreation but there’s plenty of options for that.

 

[615dawg]

The most popular college major added between 2005 and 2015:

Sports Administration

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Small privates won't do much of anything.

 

[shep9332]

Small privates won't do much of anything.

Dammit!

 

[HRMSU]

This reminds me of a couple absurd D3 conferences.
- UC Santa Cruz is in the 'Coast to Coast' conference alongside schools in North Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland. That is completely insane for a D3 university in California.
- The 'University Athletic Association' conference is a bunch of smart schools that are all over the map. Chicago, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Manhattan, St Louis, etc. They all have multi-billion dollar endowments and are elites so they are fine for money, but again- D3 is putting in the miles!



I dont follow her or really pay attention to her. I am pleasantly surprised she comments on things outside of what has made her famous/infamous. Whipping up oversized outrage can only last so long.

You don't follow her or really pay attention to her but you are sure she's famous for whipping up oversized outrage? Telling me you got your uniform on without....geez.

 

[eckie1]

Small privates won't do much of anything.

Dont care if Germans, but that’s what she said.*******

 

[mstateglfr]

You don't follow her or really pay attention to her but you are sure she's famous for whipping up oversized outrage? Telling me you got your uniform on without....geez.

I do not follow her. I do get pushed a lot of content about her from media that is right leaning.

See how that works?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

- The 'University Athletic Association' conference is a bunch of smart schools that are all over the map. Chicago, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Manhattan, St Louis, etc. They all have multi-billion dollar endowments and are elites so they are fine for money, but again- D3 is putting in the miles!

The UAA is almost in contiguous states at least in the north (no school in Indiana but Rose-Hulman in Terre Haute often competes against the University of Chicago and Washington - St Louis in nonconference events).

Emory in Atlanta is the outlier.

 

[StillTbonewannabe]

I do not follow her. I do get pushed a lot of content about her from media that is right leaning.

See how that works?

I don't know what she does now but I don't mind that she pointed out that she lost out of placing in a women's event due to a male competing against women.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

I don't know what she does now but I don't mind that she pointed out that she lost out of placing in a women's event due to a male competing against women.

She tied for 5th with Thomas, but I can see how the "alternative" narrative is a lot more compelling.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

She tied for 5th with Thomas, but I can see how the "alternative" narrative is a lot more compelling.

She openly spoke out saying men shouldn’t be in women’s events at a time when not many female collegiate athletes were willing to publicly say the same thing. Is that easier for you?

 

[615dawg]

Another thought. If the SEC goes to a 9 game conference schedule, the loss of FCS buy games will further hurt smaller schools.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

She openly spoke out saying men shouldn’t be in women’s events at a time when not many female collegiate athletes were willing to publicly say the same thing. Is that easier for you?

Yes. That's a debate we can have.

But Gaines sucks. She has been playing the victim card for years and using it to advocate for all kinds of anti-LGBT causes, not just sticking to sports. She's become very rich and famous on the idea that she came in 2nd while a transgender athlete came in 1st, which simply did not happen. I don't disagree with the NCAA's rule change to prevent any more Thomas situations, but I don't have any respect for Gaines whatsoever.

 

[Mr. Cook]

 

[Baddog11]

North Alabama seems to be growing. Florence and the whole quad cities. Building new facilities.

 

[Maroon13]

Obviously schools want to stay in D1 as long as they can, as the revenue from the ncaa and conference media rights is much higher in D1.

However the ncaa distributes 4.37% of its revenue to D2 schools and 3.18% to D3. So if these D2 schools can eliminate the nil fiasco and revenue sharing, seems it would be a net gain or at least break even to drop to D3.

All those gulf south schools should drop to D3 and be done with it. They'll still get players, not as athletic but it isn't like their sport draw huge crowds anyways. Also they save on having to pay scholarships AND the athletes that do want to play, will have to pay their tuition.

 

[Podgy]

It was right there for everyone but you found it first

 

[Podgy]

Yes. That's a debate we can have.

But Gaines sucks. She has been playing the victim card for years and using it to advocate for all kinds of anti-LGBT causes, not just sticking to sports. She's become very rich and famous on the idea that she came in 2nd while a transgender athlete came in 1st, which simply did not happen. I don't disagree with the NCAA's rule change to prevent any more Thomas situations, but I don't have any respect for Gaines whatsoever.

I don't pay attention to her but I don't recall her ever being anti-gay, anti-lesbian or anti-bisexual.

 

[Podgy]

Small privates aren't going to be able to stay Division I. By 2030, the Presbyterian, Abilene Christian, Elon-type schools will have to drop to D3.

What no one in my circles can figure out is what is going to happen in D2. North Alabama/West Georgia/Valdosta State (and West Florida is about to announce) saw the writing on the wall and jumped to FCS.

Delta State and West Alabama are stuck in a bad place. The Arkansas D2s have the Oklahoma schools to keep them company. There's enough public D2s in Oklahoma and Texas to get through it.

The Gulf South Conferfence, once a D2 powerhouse conference full of national champs on a yearly basis, is a shell of its old self and is mostly private colleges that will be looking at D3 soon. Alabama-Huntsville and Auburn-Montgomery are there, but they don't play football. Delta State and West Alabama will have three choices:

1. Go Division I FCS (and both schools are losing money on athletics at a high rate already)
2. Find a new conference home with the Texas/Arkansas/Oklahoma schools (which are in better shape for now, but do they want to travel to MS and AL?)
3. Drop football like MC did.

MUW has an odd problem too. Right now, they are D3 and a member of the St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference. Yes, you read that right. They play in a conference with a bunch of teams in the St. Louis area. The issue is that many of those SLIAC schools are in financial trouble like Birmingham Southern, and one has announced its closure. MUW as a public college has no chance of getting into one of the D3 conferences in the footprint, so they will probably have to drop athletics again. That president at MUW is a disaster.

The changing landscape of big time college athletics is having a domino effect on all levels of college athletics, which removes opportunities from young men and women. I read an article that stated that 30,000-40,000 roster spots on college sports teams will be eliminated by 2030.

Riley Gaines had a good tweet about it yesterday - focused on swimming and diving but its coming for all non-revenue spots.

Small privates without large endowments (that's what she said...or maybe she didn't) will go under. Louisiana schools in the Southland will have trouble competing with the Texas schools that just have more money and bigger athletic budgets. They might need to drop to D-2. But will there be enough D-2 schools nearby to play football. Or maybe just do what UNO did and don't have football. Then again, UNO is desperate now for a state bailout, it's incredibly in debt, or a takeover by LSU.

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

Yes. That's a debate we can have.

But Gaines sucks. She has been playing the victim card for years and using it to advocate for all kinds of anti-LGBT causes, not just sticking to sports. She's become very rich and famous on the idea that she came in 2nd while a transgender athlete came in 1st, which simply did not happen. I don't disagree with the NCAA's rule change to prevent any more Thomas situations, but I don't have any respect for Gaines whatsoever.

Wow! You and I have something in common. No, I absolutely respect Riley Gaines for standing up for what is right! You, I have no respect for. You suck. I'm sure the bully 4th grade girls beat you up and took your milk money every day.
You are embarrassing the male species enough all by yourself!

 

[mstateglfr]

I don't know what she does now but I don't mind that she pointed out that she lost out of placing in a women's event due to a male competing against women.

Did she though?

I am fine with the idea that college athletes compete as the identified sex assigned at birth.
Totally good with it and have supported it thru the last handful of years.

From what I am pushed, again it's by conservative outlets, she seems to have gone well beyond some fundamental stance and deep into capitalizing on the fame her over the top outrage rants have produced.



This issue was never significant and continues to not be significant. It was stated that .002% of NCAA athletes were trans(last year, I believe).
1 out of every 50,000 NCAA athletes were trans.

It's completely insane that the issue became what it became.

 

[Podgy]

Did she though?

I am fine with the idea that college athletes compete as the identified sex assigned at birth.
Totally good with it and have supported it thru the last handful of years.

From what I am pushed, again it's by conservative outlets, she seems to have gone well beyond some fundamental stance and deep into capitalizing on the fame her over the top outrage rants have produced.



This issue was never significant and continues to not be significant. It was stated that .002% of NCAA athletes were trans(last year, I believe).
1 out of every 50,000 NCAA athletes were trans.

It's completely insane that the issue became what it became.

It's more of an issue in some states in high school sports. Anyway, that anyone thinks it's o.k. for biological males who went through male puberty but whose sense of self is female be allowed to compete against females is what's truly insane. I guess this means a lock is on its way.

 

[mstateglfr]

The UAA is almost in contiguous states at least in the north (no school in Indiana but Rose-Hulman in Terre Haute often competes against the University of Chicago and Washington - St Louis in nonconference events).

Emory in Atlanta is the outlier.

I guess?
Excluding Emory, it's 1180 mi from one of the schools to another.
That's just seems wild for D3 schools, especially since there are so many other D3 schools close to STL and CHI.
...but then smart schools would be with the unwashed masses of common small colleges.

 

[mstateglfr]

It's more of an issue in some states in high school sports. Anyway, that anyone thinks it's o.k. for biological males who went through male puberty but whose sense of self is female should be allowed to compete against females is what's truly insane. I guess this means a lock is on its way.

Based on what has been discussed on here thru the past few years, basically everyone agrees with you...and I...and Quaoars...etc.

 

[leeinator]

Hate to see MUW have to drop sports. I was really pulling for them. Would have been cool if MSU could have used them as a farm league to develop talent for our baseball program. Maybe donate some money to them and if they happen to run across some good players, that their first choice would have to be MSU if they wanted to move up.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

Small private schools can't afford to eliminate mens sports, particularly football. Unless they are elite academically, Most D3 privates have somewhere between 30-40% of their student population on a varsity team, and that number is higher for men. Take away a sport like football that will have 100 students on the team, and that's 100 students that aren't going to that school. I've seen them try it, and you have a women's college in a hurry. And most of those 20 year old women want to go to a school with 20 year old men around. It's stupidly expensive to have a D3 football program, but it's cheaper than the alternative.

 

[Maroon13]

Hate to see MUW have to drop sports. I was really pulling for them. Would have been cool if MSU could have used them as a farm league to develop talent for our baseball program. Maybe donate some money to them and if they happen to run across some good players, that their first choice would have to be MSU if they wanted to move up.

MUW messed up when they went away from the W part. They had a "niche" then. Now they are nothing more than a tiny school called "Mississippi University for Women" that isn't just for women.

They will never attract players talented enough to sniff a sec roster.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

MUW messed up when they went away from the W part. They had a "niche" then. Now they are nothing more than a tiny school called "Mississippi University for Women" that isn't just for women.

They will never attract players talented enough to sniff a sec roster.

Best thing for them to do is bring their nursing program to MSU. It's all there is left to do.

 

[MSTerritoryDog]

Another thought. If the SEC goes to a 9 game conference schedule, the loss of FCS buy games will further hurt smaller schools.

Excellent point! Schools will look to reduce their expenses. I’m not sure how much MSU pays for the guaranteed Win (hope it’s guaranteed) every year, but I suspect we will pay less or get a deal with a school that doesn’t have to be paid. Several years ago there was a sports segment on Savannah State talking about how the blue-blood “buy me a win game” brought more to their athletic budget than all other sources. I think they played 4 power schools that year.

As you say, it will crush the small school budgets but will also hurt our record and postseason chances.

 

[615dawg]

Small private schools can't afford to eliminate mens sports, particularly football. Unless they are elite academically, Most D3 privates have somewhere between 30-40% of their student population on a varsity team, and that number is higher for men. Take away a sport like football that will have 100 students on the team, and that's 100 students that aren't going to that school. I've seen them try it, and you have a women's college in a hurry. And most of those 20 year old women want to go to a school with 20 year old men around. It's stupidly expensive to have a D3 football program, but it's cheaper than the alternative.

D3 isn't going anywhere for the reasons you state.

I think its going to grow. D2 is where the issues are. There are D2 football programs that spend $25 million. The lowest spend in D2 is $1.5 million. The median is around $6.5 million. The FBS median is $23 million.

Mississippi College was spending around $2 million, near the D2 low, and had to shutter their program. Delta State is currently in an $11 million hole. They will have to make some changes.


A few weeks ago we played baseball against Queens University of Charlotte. I have worked closely with them on a few projects. They were a D2 powerhouse in several sports. Kind of like Stanford/Texas/Florida in the D2 version of the Learfield Cup. They won a D2 national title in six different sports in a five year span. Their men's basketball team had seven straight 30-win seasons in D2. They were forced with the decision that a lot of D2 schools are facing. Go D3 or go D1. They, as well as Lindenwood in St. Charles, Missouri, decided to go D1. Lindenwood has football and had to drop 10 sports to make it work. Queens is trying but will likely have to drop non-revenue sports.

 

[40 acres and a mule]

MUW messed up when they went away from the W part. They had a "niche" then. Now they are nothing more than a tiny school called "Mississippi University for Women" that isn't just for women.

They will never attract players talented enough to sniff a sec roster.

You do know the Federal courts forced them to take male students don't you? It wasn't something they wanted to do. The case went to the Supreme court if my memory is correct. You are right about the effect.