Should Beamer get at least 6 years?

[18IsTheMan]

6 years is not automatic - he's going to have to earn it through progress which will need to be obvious to Gamecock supporters without a lot of analysis.

Well, sure, I don't think anyone believes 6 years should be automatic. The OP was predicated on some basic assumptions that we won't have any seasons on the order of 1-11 between now and then and also assumes there would be some signs of progress along the way. The question is should we allow him at least or up to 6 years to show true success (whatever we define that to be)?

 

[18IsTheMan]

The answer is "no". Hasn't been anything but "no" for a couple of decades. That answer does not affect anyone else's aspirations. But the patience you and others are counseling will not coalesce absent visible progress manifesting itself in the form of additional wins. And I haven't attempted to "use" you to construct any narrative. No need to.

The simplest way I can respond is from my previous post: Year after mediocre year, decade after mediocre decade, coach after mediocre coach, fans still show up in droves to games and cheer on the team. It's one of the hallmarks of our program: the dedication and passion of a fanbase for such a mediocre program.

I'll believe we are fed up with mediocrity when we have 30,000 empty seats in the stands for home games.

From the school's perspective, and this is heading down a totally different rabbit trail, what REAL motivation is there to improve when you're still raking in the dough from ticket sales and other forms of revenue, regardless of the product that's put on the field? In this way, college football defies capitalism. Fans still pay up and show up, regardless of the quality of the product. In no other scenario do consumer repeatedly buy an underperforming product on the basis that they hope it will be better this time.

The irony is, fans get even MORE pressure to cough up money for tickets and show up to the game, the worse the team is. Mark it down, if we get shellacked by A&M there will folks saying the team needs us now more than ever and to show up loud and proud for the Jax game.

 

[Deleted11512]

The answer is "no". Hasn't been anything but "no" for a couple of decades. That answer does not affect anyone else's aspirations. But the patience you and others are counseling will not coalesce absent visible progress manifesting itself in the form of additional wins. And I haven't attempted to "use" you to construct any narrative. No need to.

I think times are changing, and you could see louder voices of displeasure during Muschamp's slide than in the past. Those 4 years HBC were the best thing to happen to us. Showed us you can win here, without having 5 consecutive top 5 recruiting classes. But bc of that, you are going to see louder criticisms from the fanbase when mediocrity hits. All of a sudden the "best fans in America that show up even when were bad" stopped showing under Muschamp. They came back under Beamer, but if this year goes off the rails and next year starts off bad, Stubhub will be flooded with cheap USC tickets. Also, I've seen a fair amount of griping bc "You want me to keep giving to NIL for this crap??!!". The more you ask people to pay, the more they expect...generally.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I think times are changing, and you could see louder voices of displeasure during Muschamp's slide than in the past. Those 4 years HBC were the best thing to happen to us. Showed us you can win here, without having 5 consecutive top 5 recruiting classes. But bc of that, you are going to see louder criticisms from the fanbase when mediocrity hits. All of a sudden the "best fans in America that show up even when were bad" stopped showing under Muschamp. They came back under Beamer, but if this year goes off the rails and next year starts off bad, Stubhub will be flooded with cheap USC tickets. Also, I've seen a fair amount of griping bc "You want me to keep giving to NIL for this crap??!!". The more you ask people to pay, the more they expect...generally.

Perhaps...and I think it's a stretch...but possible, that the athletic department will be motivated to commit to football improvement based on NIL. It's obviously the new name of the game.

Per my post immediately prior to this one, there really has been no great motivation to commit to football improvement b/c fans still cough up money for tickets and show up to games, no matter the product. But, I do agree, fans generally pay into NIL unless they see it being worth their while. (personally, I can't understand ANYONE ever paying their hard-earned money into NIL to buy recruits, but I'm an old fogey)

 

[Prestonyte]

Well, sure, I don't think anyone believes 6 years should be automatic. The OP was predicated on some basic assumptions that we won't have any seasons on the order of 1-11 between now and then and also assumes there would be some signs of progress along the way. The question is should we allow him at least or up to 6 years to show true success (whatever we define that to be)?

Agree, and I think 6 years has been the ''norm'' allowing the new coach 2 years of recruiting his players and 4 years of their playing time. The 4th year, or 2 years into his recruits playing time, everyone expects to see something about the coach that excites them. The caveat is you are expecting those recruits to perform as Jr's and Soph's which may be expecting too much. Beamer has already shown some positives, but I understand the lack of patience and the ''win now'' attitude given our history. If you look back at Frank Beamer's tenure at Va Tech, if they had pulled the trigger when everyone was screaming to do so, they would have missed out on a legacy coach. It's a very tough call to make. We've pulled that trigger so often in the past, and rightfully so, I just hope we have the patience at the 'right'' time.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Agree, and I think 6 years has been the ''norm'' allowing the new coach 2 years of recruiting his players and 4 years of their playing time. The 4th year, or 2 years into his recruits playing time, everyone expects to see something about the coach that excites them. The caveat is you are expecting those recruits to perform as Jr's and Soph's which may be expecting too much. Beamer has already shown some positives, but I understand the lack of patience and the ''win now'' attitude given our history. If you look back at Frank Beamer's tenure at Va Tech, if they had pulled the trigger when everyone was screaming to do so, they would have missed out on a legacy coach. It's a very tough call to make. We've pulled that trigger so often in the past, and rightfully so, I just hope we have the patience at the 'right'' time.

Frank was 5-6 in Year 5 and 2-8-1 in Year 6. No idea how he avoided being fired. Things took off in Year 7.

I know it's not the norm, but there can be value in patience. It's ALWAYS a roll of the dice. It's total roll of the dice to fire an underperforming coach after a couple down seasons and hire someone else b/c you have no idea how they'll do. UF is a contemporary example of this.

 

[Prestonyte]

Frank was 5-6 in Year 5 and 2-8-1 in Year 6. No idea how he avoided being fired. Things took off in Year 7.

I know it's not the norm, but there can be value in patience. It's ALWAYS a roll of the dice. It's total roll of the dice to fire an underperforming coach after a couple down seasons and hire someone else b/c you have no idea how they'll do. UF is a contemporary example of this.

We've been on that roller coaster for a quite a while.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Maybe the team should tank to save next year's team. With next year's schedule, the absolute ceiling will be 5 or 6 wins, and that's if we pull of some upsets. If this team crashes to a 2-8 or 3-9 record, A 5-win season next year can be considered progress.

 

[SSIGamecock]

It goes against conventional wisdom these days. The standard used to be 4 years, but even that is getting cut short in a lot of cases these days. The reality for us is that there are no quick turnarounds here. Even with all the coaching genius Spurrier brought to the table, it took him 6 years to get us over the hump. We are not, and never will be, a Bama or a UGA where all you need is the right coach and you can get things rolling in a couple or 3 seasons. It's always going to take longer here. As painful as it may be, I believe we simply have to double down on Beamer. I'm not confident that he's the solution, but barring some kind of 1-11 fiasco, I think the only way to know is to give it time. We have to accept what this year is and that next year is shaping to be potentially just as bad with our schedule. We should show progress in 2025 and 2026 should be the make-or-break year.

yes.

 

[KingWard]

Frank was 5-6 in Year 5 and 2-8-1 in Year 6. No idea how he avoided being fired. Things took off in Year 7.

I know it's not the norm, but there can be value in patience. It's ALWAYS a roll of the dice. It's total roll of the dice to fire an underperforming coach after a couple down seasons and hire someone else b/c you have no idea how they'll do. UF is a contemporary example of this.

2-8-1 ain't gonna survive that late in a man's tenure anywhere now, unless you're talking about a service academy or the Ivy League or someplace comparable - maybe. 2-8-1 (adjust for 12 games) can't possibly be the launching point for upward mobility in the SEC - especially the SEC that's coming next year.

 

[Big JC]

2-8-1 ain't gonna survive that late in a man's tenure anywhere now, unless you're talking about a service academy or the Ivy League or someplace comparable - maybe. 2-8-1 (adjust for 12 games) can't possibly be the launching point for upward mobility in the SEC - especially the SEC that's coming next year.

Yeah, there is way too much money being asked for and spent these days for any coach to get the forbearance Frank got in the past. Coaches want millions now and it is perfectly reasonable for fans and ADs to expect winning seasons for the millions they are paying.

Honestly, I don't love what college football has become. The days of a coach being at a program for decades in spite of some bad seasons and long stretches of non championship seasons are over. It was actually more enjoyable being a fan back in those days when winning a couple games a season against a rival and going to and winning a bowl game made a season "successful", even if the team didn't win any sort of championship. Now, going to a bowl game is sort of the minimum standard for every program. If a team doesn't go to a bowl with well over half of teams going, a season is justifiably considered an embarrassment for any school that halfway takes football seriously.

 

[KingWard]

Yeah, there is way too much money being asked for and spent these days for any coach to get the forbearance Frank got in the past. Coaches want millions now and it is perfectly reasonable for fans and ADs to expect winning seasons for the millions they are paying.

Honestly, I don't love what college football has become. The days of a coach being at a program for decades in spite of some bad seasons and long stretches of non championship seasons are over. It was actually more enjoyable being a fan back in those days when winning a couple games a season against a rival and going to and winning a bowl game made a season "successful", even if the team didn't win any sort of championship. Now, going to a bowl game is sort of the minimum standard for every program. If a team doesn't go to a bowl with well over half of teams going, a season is justifiably considered an embarrassment for any school that halfway takes football seriously.

Oh, an abject disgrace - and a system where a team goes with a break even record - or sometimes worse (laughably) is itself a disgrace.

And like you, I abhor what college football has become.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Yeah, there is way too much money being asked for and spent these days for any coach to get the forbearance Frank got in the past. Coaches want millions now and it is perfectly reasonable for fans and ADs to expect winning seasons for the millions they are paying.

On this point I agree. Salaries in the millions demand results.

 

[athenscock3]

If you want to lose one of the best recruiting classes we'd had for quite awhile and see a mass exodus of the current roster do it. It'll be like starting all over with a new person and I predict the fire'em crowd will be all over him in 2-3 years.

 

[KingWard]

If you want to lose one of the best recruiting classes we'd had for quite awhile and see a mass exodus of the current roster do it. It'll be like starting all over with a new person and I predict the fire'em crowd will be all over him in 2-3 years.

It's all results-driven. It need not be catastrophic. Beamer will determine that in the final analysis. He's got time to show some sustainable life.

 

[Cocky99]

At the rate we are going with two wins, he better the f#%* not be here 3 seasons from now. The heat is on.

 

[Thunderstick]

Really? No one else in the nation uses pantone 151. It is unique and is recognized everywhere as "Tennessee Orange". Tell me how you came to steal free shoes U's "garnet".

Never heard the term “Tennessee Orange” nor has anyone else. And, who the f**k is General Robert Neyland? Was he the Offensive Coordinator for Butch Jones and Derek Dooley?

Take it home, hillbilly.

 

[Beanerball]

If Beamer can go out and land an experienced DC, that’s the first move for me. Next is recruiting. Make head way on those fronts and that buys some more time in my book. Current DC’s last gig was WKY, if I’m not mistaken. Beamer has got to upgrade the staff and get in players. We should see movement on those fronts next year. If so , I’m good with 4-5 more years. I can take short-term losses as long as I see moves in the right direction.