South Florida Building $340 Million On Site Stadium

[Dawgg]

It will seat 34,000 people. USF currently plays in Raymond James stadium (Tampa Bay Buccaneers). The thought is that between this and being an AAU member, this will make them more attractive to conferences when the next round of realignment occurs.

This made me think of a few things:
1. I have no concept of building costs. $340 Million sounds like a whole lot of money for a stadium that will seat just over half of Davis Wade.

2. Remember when South Florida had their meteoric rise to prominence? They went from starting a team in 1997 to going to the FBS in 2001 to ditching Conference USA for the Big East (when they were a BCS qualifier and that meant something) in 2005 and reaching #2 in the AP poll in 2007 and winning 5 of 6 straight Bowl games. Then Skip Holtz kind of drove them into the ground, then they had a bounce with Willie Taggart before he left for Oregon and now they've won 4 games over the past 3 seasons.

3. 10-15 years ago, between them and UCF, USF was definitely seen as the stronger program and was called up from CUSA to the Big East 8 years before UCF. Somehow over the past decade, UCF stole their mojo and passed them by.

USF OK's $340M budget for on-campus stadium

USF's board of trustees approved a $340 million budget to build a 35,000-seat on-campus football stadium that could be ready as soon as 2026.

www.espn.com

 

[aTotal360]

What a dump.

 

[The Peeper]

"projected to open for the 2026 season"

It'll never be ready on time......

 

[Maroon13]

So $200 million debt. $150 million donations.

It seems more and more schools are doing huge upgrades or builds to make their stadiums more attractive.

Hopefully this AD or maybe the next AD at Mississippi State figures out.... we need a total rebuild of the west side and more club level seating to the east.

 

[615dawg]

South Florida is a sleeping giant. 50k students, now an AAU member. You are right about UCF kind of taking their mojo.

On an unrelated note, we are visiting USF this summer. It's probably the best value for a top 100 school in the country. Now that they are AAU, the value is incredible.

A 30 ACT and 4.0 ACT will completely waive out of state tuition. Florida colleges have the lowest in-state tuition in the Southeast. South Florida's tuition is $6,410 a year. For comparison, Mississippi State is $9,220. The 30/4.0 brings it to $4,220.

For $2200 a year more than I can send my kid to my in-state alma mater, I can send them to a top 100, AAU university in a great city close to the beach with way more opportunities. It's a tough sell to talented, smart students who are driven to succeed at a high level.

The honors freshman dorm at USF is $4213 a semester. The 14 meal meal plan is $2350 and offers about 3 times the options that MSU does. The honors dorm at State is $4294 a semester, the equal meal plan is $2129, so those costs are basically the same.

On top of it all, I can buy a condo in Tampa for basically what it costs in Starkville nowadays if we go that route.

State has to step up its scholarship game to compete for great in-state students. Arkansas is waiving 90% of out of state to Mississippi residents. South Alabama has a billboard on 49 announcing in-state tuition to Mississippi residents. All of the Florida schools will waive it for ACT scores of 26-31 (varies by school - UF is 31, FSU and USF are 30, but UWF in Pensacola is 26). Their ultra low in-state tuition makes them very competitive for those who can get out of state waived.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

South Florida is a sleeping giant. 50k students, now an AAU member. You are right about UCF kind of taking their mojo.

On an unrelated note, we are visiting USF this summer. It's probably the best value for a top 100 school in the country. Now that they are AAU, the value is incredible.

A 30 ACT and 4.0 ACT will completely waive out of state tuition. Florida colleges have the lowest in-state tuition in the Southeast. South Florida's tuition is $6,410 a year. For comparison, Mississippi State is $9,220. The 30/4.0 brings it to $4,220.

For $2200 a year more than I can send my kid to my in-state alma mater, I can send them to a top 100, AAU university in a great city close to the beach with way more opportunities. It's a tough sell to talented, smart students who are driven to succeed at a high level.

On top of it all, I can buy a condo in Tampa for basically what it costs in Starkville nowadays.

State has to step up its scholarship game to compete for great in-state students.

If your kid has the grades to get Florida out-of-state waived, I'm pretty sure he/she can get more scholarships to completely pay for MSU tuition. Not buying the 'USF is cheaper than MSU for an in-state Mississippi kid' angle.

 

[615dawg]

If your kid has the grades to get Florida out-of-state waived, I'm pretty sure he/she can get more scholarships to completely pay for MSU tuition. Not buying the 'USF is cheaper than MSU for an in-state Mississippi kid' angle.

I don't care what you are buying, we're living it. While there could be additional scholarships awarded by MSU, the same can be said for USF. And I didnt say it was cheaper. It's about $2200-$2500 more per year.

I don't know where we will end up, it could very well be State. But USF and Florida State have given us something to think about that five years ago, I wouldn't have even considered.

I will tell you something that surprised me. As many kids that are leaving Mississippi for Alabama and Auburn, their scholarships aren't impressive. The out of state SEC schools that are throwing money at Mississippi kids are Arkansas and South Carolina.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don't care what you are buying, we're living it. While there could be additional scholarships awarded by MSU, the same can be said for USF. And I didnt say it was cheaper. It's about $2200-$2500 more per year.

If you want (or your kid wants) to go to USF, fine. But don't run down MSU to justify it.

 

[615dawg]

If you want (or your kid wants) to go to USF, fine. But don't run down MSU to justify it.

I'm not running down MSU. I stated facts that we have complained about on this board for a long time. State doesn't really give great scholarships to excellent students. They do very well for average students to compensate though. A 24 ACT is going to get a $2000 a year scholarship to State. Ole Miss gives that same student $1500. No other SEC school gives a 24 a scholarship.

The problem is when you hand out $2000 for a 24, you have less money for the 30+. That's why 30+ kids are leaving Mississippi. It's a statewide problem. And the ones that are staying are leaving according to the state auditor's report. Fixing Jackson and Stopping the Brain Drain should be Priority 1a and 1b in this state.

 

[patdog]

I hate to tell them, but a 35,000 seat stadium isn’t going to make them attractive to any decent conference. No matter how good their academics are.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I'm not running down MSU. I stated facts that we have complained about on this board for a long time. State doesn't really give great scholarships to excellent students. They do very well for average students to compensate though. A 24 ACT is going to get a $2000 a year scholarship to State. Ole Miss gives that same student $1500. No other SEC school gives a 24 a scholarship.

The problem is when you hand out $2000 for a 24, you have less money for the 30+. That's why 30+ kids are leaving Mississippi. It's a statewide problem.

Yeah, I'm not buying that either. I know kids who got a 29 and going for free. You said it yourself. MSU is cheaper than USF.

Kids are leaving MS because they perceive other opportunities as better. It is what it is. It isn't because MSU or Ole Miss (or anybody else) is doing something wrong. And certainly not because they are more expensive, ESPECIALLY for in-state kids.

 

[Dawgg]

If you want (or your kid wants) to go to USF, fine. But don't run down MSU to justify it.

I didn't take it as him running down Mississippi State. He was just telling his personal experience as a father whose kid is looking for a place to go to college.

 

[Dawgg]

Yeah, I'm not buying that either. I know kids who got a 29 and going for free. You said it yourself. MSU is cheaper than USF.

Kids are leaving MS because they perceive other opportunities as better. It is what it is. It isn't because MSU or Ole Miss (or anybody else) is doing something wrong. And certainly not because they are more expensive, ESPECIALLY for in-state kids.

Any part of that Eminent Scholars? Is that still a thing? I remember that took care of a lot of my initial college expenses 25 years ago.

I was curious, so I found this chart on the admissions website:

https://www.admissions.msstate.edu/sites/www.admissions.msstate.edu/files/inline-files/Freshman-Scholarship-Accessible-v1.pdf

 

[615dawg]

I didn't take it as him running down Mississippi State. He was just telling his personal experience as a father whose kid is looking for a place to go to college.

He knows I wasn't running down MSU and he knows I am right.

Go into any high school in this state and pull out the top students. The majority of them WANT to leave the state. Some will have the opportunity, some won't and will end up at State or Ole Miss. But then a big percentage of them will leave after graduating college.

Society is rewarding mediocrity. MSU has made the commitment to give scholarships to more in-state students with lower test scores. It attracts more students but drives higher achievers elsewhere.

When all is said and done, I figure State will add on an additional $2000 + the state grants, which will make tuition very little, if any. But the initial offers from the admission teams at several colleges are very interesting. The point of my post, was that the Florida schools have way cheaper tuition, and they waive out of state for high achievers. South Florida being an AAU school, there is a lot of value there if you aren't interested in big time athletics.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I hate to tell them, but a 35,000 seat stadium isn’t going to make them attractive to any decent conference. No matter how good their academics are.

Yeah this is just basically to keep up with the AAC, like the other schools have already done. You'd think Memphis would have caught on by now.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

He knows I wasn't running down MSU and he knows I am right.

Go into any high school in this state and pull out the top students. The majority of them WANT to leave the state. Some will have the opportunity, some won't and will end up at State or Ole Miss. But then a big percentage of them will leave after graduating college.

Society is rewarding mediocrity. MSU has made the commitment to give scholarships to more in-state students with lower test scores. It attracts more students but drives higher achievers elsewhere.

When all is said and done, I figure State will add on an additional $2000 + the state grants, which will make tuition very little, if any. But the initial offers from the admission teams at several colleges are very interesting. The point of my post, was that the Florida schools have way cheaper tuition, and they waive out of state for high achievers. South Florida being an AAU school, there is a lot of value there if you aren't interested in big time athletics.

No, I don't know that. I just disagree with you.

It's the popular thing to do, to leave the state. It's because there are better opportunities elsewhere. We all know this and have hashed it out. So the universities are doing what they have to do to market to the kids who are most likely to stay here, which is a good option.

The bigger picture here is what can the state do, and what can the universities do, to get more people to actually come and LIVE in the state, not just go to school. You can go to school here, then leave. Or go to school elsewhere, and come back here.

About the only thing that a run of the mill 'high-achiever' can do in MS is start their own company. MS can't compete with these other big cities when it comes to attracting modern-day office workers, it's a futile effort. So until that changes, they'll continue to go elsewhere, and there's nothing anyone can do. The only choice the 'high-achiever' (or their parents, like you) really have is where and what price you want to pay for school, because whether that's here or Tampa in this case, your kid is leaving anyway, right?

The main function MSU has right now is being innovative (example - the drone research) and providing a stable town/area/region (Golden Triangle) that is actually attractive for people to live. Academics are kinda yesterday's news, I mean I we all see the trend there, people who are still strictly into that aren't really seeing the big picture. The better idea is to get the cheapest, most useful degree there is (in your talent/passion area) and go to work. The rest is just status.

 

[Dawgg]

Yeah this is just basically to keep up with the AAC, like the other schools have already done. You'd think Memphis would have caught on by now.

Are on campus stadiums more attractive to the big conferences? I guess I've never considered it.

Going from a 75,000 NFL stadium down to a 34,000 on campus seems like a downgrade, but I guess filling up 1/3 or so of the stadium is a bad look too. I thought that maybe they were in a tight lease agreement with the Bucs and/or the city of Tampa Bay, but then I found an article from 2017 that identified their lease terms and it sounds like a sweetheart deal:

"The Times also reported that the terms of the agreement show USF’s costs for the use of the lower bowl and two club lounges would total about $172,000 for games with fewer than 24,000 in attendance, and $185,000 for games with more than 24,000 for the upcoming season.
Rates for each year are determined in July of that year. The costs have slowly increased over the past decade. According to the Tampa Sports Authority, USF had an announced average attendance of 37.539 for the seven home games in 2016, and an actual average of 27,887."

So, even with the higher rate of $185,000... if the construction of the new stadium is going to be $340,000,000, it's going to take 1,838 games being played there before the 'lease vs build' math goes into their favor. I know there are other things to consider with concerts, live events, lower tier bowls, etc. that could go there in the off-season, but man, that's a lot of money.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

It will seat 34,000 people. USF currently plays in Raymond James stadium (Tampa Bay Buccaneers). The thought is that between this and being an AAU member, this will make them more attractive to conferences when the next round of realignment occurs.

This made me think of a few things:
1. I have no concept of building costs. $340 Million sounds like a whole lot of money for a stadium that will seat just over half of Davis Wade.

2. Remember when South Florida had their meteoric rise to prominence? They went from starting a team in 1997 to going to the FBS in 2001 to ditching Conference USA for the Big East (when they were a BCS qualifier and that meant something) in 2005 and reaching #2 in the AP poll in 2007 and winning 5 of 6 straight Bowl games. Then Skip Holtz kind of drove them into the ground, then they had a bounce with Willie Taggart before he left for Oregon and now they've won 4 games over the past 3 seasons.

3. 10-15 years ago, between them and UCF, USF was definitely seen as the stronger program and was called up from CUSA to the Big East 8 years before UCF. Somehow over the past decade, UCF stole their mojo and passed them by.

USF OK's $340M budget for on-campus stadium

USF's board of trustees approved a $340 million budget to build a 35,000-seat on-campus football stadium that could be ready as soon as 2026.

www.espn.com

$10,000/seat to build. Wonder what operating costs are, average annual revenue per seat, including concessions? Be an interesting ROI to know.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Are on campus stadiums more attractive to the big conferences? I guess I've never considered it.

I assume there's some data there, since they all are doing it. UCF did it years ago, Tulane, etc.

 

[HRMSU]

No, I don't know that. I just disagree with you.

It's the popular thing to do, to leave the state. It's because there are better opportunities elsewhere. We all know this and have hashed it out. So the universities are doing what they have to do to market to the kids who are most likely to stay here, which is a good option.

The bigger picture here is what can the state do, and what can the universities do, to get more people to actually come and LIVE in the state, not just go to school. You can go to school here, then leave. Or go to school elsewhere, and come back here.

About the only thing that a run of the mill 'high-achiever' can do in MS is start their own company. MS can't compete with these other big cities when it comes to attracting modern-day office workers, it's a futile effort. So until that changes, they'll continue to go elsewhere, and there's nothing anyone can do. The only choice the 'high-achiever' (or their parents, like you) really have is where and what price you want to pay for school, because whether that's here or Tampa in this case, your kid is leaving anyway, right?

The main function MSU has right now is being innovative (example - the drone research) and providing a stable town/area/region (Golden Triangle) that is actually attractive for people to live. Academics are kinda yesterday's news, I mean I we all see the trend there, people who are still strictly into that aren't really seeing the big picture. The better idea is to get the cheapest, most useful degree there is (in your talent/passion area) and go to work. The rest is just status.

How about waive out of State tuition for tech majors or strategically selected degrees. Then offer State funded down payment assistance on first home purchases for any graduate of an in-state school.....maybe that would be illegal? If not, perhaps industry, realtor sector, city, State and Universities could partner in specific development zones to create the housing or master planned communities.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Go into any high school in this state and pull out the top students. The majority of them WANT to leave the state. Some will have the opportunity, some won't and will end up at State or Ole Miss. But then a big percentage of them will leave after graduating college.

Society is rewarding mediocrity. MSU has made the commitment to give scholarships to more in-state students with lower test scores. It attracts more students but drives higher achievers elsewhere.

 

[The Peeper]

I think all of those directional schools in FL need to get together and exchange their names. You've got Univ S Fl in Tampa, barely half way down the state. It should have been UCF because it was founded before the actual UCF was and then FL International (Miami) or FL Atlantic (Boca) could have correctly been called Univ S FL. UCF was originally FL Tech because of its connection w/ NASA and the space coast and should have been kept that way. Hell, UCF is bigger than U of FL today, they should be called Univ of FL rightfully.

There's Univ N Florida in Jacksonville, while it is North its also as far East as you can go. You've got Univ of W FL in Pensacola, although it is West, its also extremely North.

OK, rant over.

 

[HotMop]

$10,000/seat to build. Wonder what operating costs are, average annual revenue per seat, including concessions? Be an interesting ROI to know.

Paying back 10 million per year, someone work the numbers.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

How about waive out of State tuition for tech majors or strategically selected degrees. Then offer State funded down payment assistance on first home purchases for any graduate of an in-state school.....maybe that would be illegal? If not, perhaps industry, realtor sector, city, State and Universities could partner in specific development zones to create the housing or master planned communities.

I like your outside the box thought process. I don’t know the answer, but the typical solutions aren’t going to work.

 

[BulldogLegacy]

If you want (or your kid wants) to go to USF, fine. But don't run down MSU to justify it.

He has the right to when our university and the state doesn’t do a better job of recruiting students. It’s not his doing that state of Florida just gave him a better option. Look at his situation. Everything he said was correct especially about the part of buying a real estate asset in Florida vs Starkville.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

You hate on MS at every outset. Plus, you’re liberal and talking about meritocracy? Talk about LOL.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

He has the right to when our university and the state doesn’t do a better job of recruiting students. It’s not his doing that state of Florida just gave him a better option. Look at his situation. Everything he said was correct especially about the part of buying a real estate asset in Florida vs Starkville.

Yeahhhh, real estate in Tampa isn’t cheaper than Starkville. Unless you’re in the….

 

[Maroon Eagle]

You hate on MS at every outset. Plus, you’re liberal and talking about meritocracy? Talk about LOL.

I’m very meritocratic. I come across as liberal here because I’m in Mississippi and am not an 100 percent unthinking-have-to-be conservative.

Don’t feel bad: Democrats don’t know what to think about me either.

Paging @Mr. Cook — 615’s tried and I’ve tried but talking to our friend Goat about the state’s economic realities when considering that Mississippi’s best and brightest are leaving the state because they’re discouraged with Mississippi and its leadership is something he doesn’t quite understand.

Yes, yes, I know it’s at this point…

…but maybe you can approach it in a different direction?

 

[G-Dawg]

South Florida is a sleeping giant. 50k students, now an AAU member. You are right about UCF kind of taking their mojo.

On an unrelated note, we are visiting USF this summer. It's probably the best value for a top 100 school in the country. Now that they are AAU, the value is incredible.

A 30 ACT and 4.0 ACT will completely waive out of state tuition. Florida colleges have the lowest in-state tuition in the Southeast. South Florida's tuition is $6,410 a year. For comparison, Mississippi State is $9,220. The 30/4.0 brings it to $4,220.

For $2200 a year more than I can send my kid to my in-state alma mater, I can send them to a top 100, AAU university in a great city close to the beach with way more opportunities. It's a tough sell to talented, smart students who are driven to succeed at a high level.

The honors freshman dorm at USF is $4213 a semester. The 14 meal meal plan is $2350 and offers about 3 times the options that MSU does. The honors dorm at State is $4294 a semester, the equal meal plan is $2129, so those costs are basically the same.

On top of it all, I can buy a condo in Tampa for basically what it costs in Starkville nowadays if we go that route.

State has to step up its scholarship game to compete for great in-state students. Arkansas is waiving 90% of out of state to Mississippi residents. South Alabama has a billboard on 49 announcing in-state tuition to Mississippi residents. All of the Florida schools will waive it for ACT scores of 26-31 (varies by school - UF is 31, FSU and USF are 30, but UWF in Pensacola is 26). Their ultra low in-state tuition makes them very competitive for those who can get out of state waived.

Two of my seniors this past year had 36 on the ACT. They were ranked #1 and #2 in the entire MAIS for the David Derrick ACT Award (not Prep, MRA, etc.). BOTH of them got swooped up by Alabama. I asked them did they ever seriously consider Ole Miss or State or even a more high-profile academic school like Duke, Vandy, NYU, etc. They said Bama convinced them of their high academic quality and they're both gonna get money back basically. Close to home doesn't hurt. We have GOT to start getting these types of kids.

 

[Dawgg]

Paging @Mr. Cook — 615’s tried and I’ve tried but talking to our friend Goat about the state’s economic realities when considering that Mississippi’s best and brightest are leaving the state because they’re discouraged with Mississippi and its leadership is something he doesn’t quite understand.

I hear you. I love Mississippi. Mississippi is home. I am a Mississippian, even if I haven’t lived there in 20 years. But, I can’t move to Mississippi unless it’s to retire.

I specialize in web analytics, data collection, and data visualization. Where the hell am I going to find that gig in Mississippi? And in a way where if I ever lost that job or got laid off, I could find another similar one without selling my home and moving to another city. Best case scenario is remote work and since Mississippi charges corporate/income tax, there are a number of companies that won’t allow remote work in Mississippi. I work for one of them.

And, no, I’m not the entrepreneurial sort. I like the blanket of corporate security.

I mean… we can love Mississippi while also acknowledging there are some severe problems with the state that is making it unattractive to employees and higher-ranked students.

 

[Mr. Cook]

You hate on MS at every outset. Plus, you’re liberal and talking about meritocracy? Talk about LOL.

I’m very meritocratic. I come across as liberal here because I’m in Mississippi and am not an 100 percent unthinking-have-to-be conservative.

Don’t feel bad: Democrats don’t know what to think about me either.

Paging @Mr. Cook — 615’s tried and I’ve tried but talking to our friend Goat about the state’s economic realities when considering that Mississippi’s best and brightest are leaving the state because they’re discouraged with Mississippi and its leadership is something he doesn’t quite understand.

Yes, yes, I know it’s at this point…

…but maybe you can approach it in a different direction?

I hear you. I love Mississippi. Mississippi is home. I am a Mississippian, even if I haven’t lived there in 20 years. But, I can’t move to Mississippi unless it’s to retire.

I specialize in web analytics, data collection, and data visualization. Where the hell am I going to find that gig in Mississippi? And in a way where if I ever lost that job or got laid off, I could find another similar one without selling my home and moving to another city. Best case scenario is remote work and since Mississippi charges corporate/income tax, there are a number of companies that won’t allow remote work in Mississippi. I work for one of them.

And, no, I’m not the entrepreneurial sort. I like the blanket of corporate security.

I mean… we can love Mississippi while also acknowledging there are some severe problems with the state that is making it unattractive to employees and higher-ranked students.

@Dawgg - Spot on.

@Maroon Eagle - Ask him "How is that Target project coming along?" because retail, chicken stands, convenience stores, check cashing establishments, and consumer spending is key to economic recovery in Mississippi.*********

 

[Mr. Cook]

It will seat 34,000 people. USF currently plays in Raymond James stadium (Tampa Bay Buccaneers). The thought is that between this and being an AAU member, this will make them more attractive to conferences when the next round of realignment occurs.

This made me think of a few things:
1. I have no concept of building costs. $340 Million sounds like a whole lot of money for a stadium that will seat just over half of Davis Wade.

2. Remember when South Florida had their meteoric rise to prominence? They went from starting a team in 1997 to going to the FBS in 2001 to ditching Conference USA for the Big East (when they were a BCS qualifier and that meant something) in 2005 and reaching #2 in the AP poll in 2007 and winning 5 of 6 straight Bowl games. Then Skip Holtz kind of drove them into the ground, then they had a bounce with Willie Taggart before he left for Oregon and now they've won 4 games over the past 3 seasons.

3. 10-15 years ago, between them and UCF, USF was definitely seen as the stronger program and was called up from CUSA to the Big East 8 years before UCF. Somehow over the past decade, UCF stole their mojo and passed them by.

USF OK's $340M budget for on-campus stadium

USF's board of trustees approved a $340 million budget to build a 35,000-seat on-campus football stadium that could be ready as soon as 2026.

www.espn.com

Consider this by way of comparison: Northwestern plans to submit $800M Ryan Field redevelopment plan to City of Evanston

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

I'm not running down MSU. I stated facts that we have complained about on this board for a long time. State doesn't really give great scholarships to excellent students. They do very well for average students to compensate though. A 24 ACT is going to get a $2000 a year scholarship to State. Ole Miss gives that same student $1500. No other SEC school gives a 24 a scholarship.

The problem is when you hand out $2000 for a 24, you have less money for the 30+. That's why 30+ kids are leaving Mississippi. It's a statewide problem. And the ones that are staying are leaving according to the state auditor's report. Fixing Jackson and Stopping the Brain Drain should be Priority 1a and 1b in this state.

Excellent post. My incoming freshman made 32 and has 3.9984, including dual enrollment classes at CoLin. Plus, he is a 4th generation Bulldog. State offered several scholarships, but the *full ride* we were expecting didn't happen. He's going into Aerospace engineering so, other in-state schools weren't an option. I am more than a little disappointed with what State offered, and grateful for all he earned at the same time.

 

[patdog]

Consider this by way of comparison: Northwestern plans to submit $800M Ryan Field redevelopment plan to City of Evanston

Wow! $800M with no taxpayer funding. I don't see how anyone in the community could be against that. The stadium definitely needs an upgrade.

 

[ronpolk]

South Florida is a sleeping giant. 50k students, now an AAU member. You are right about UCF kind of taking their mojo.

On an unrelated note, we are visiting USF this summer. It's probably the best value for a top 100 school in the country. Now that they are AAU, the value is incredible.

A 30 ACT and 4.0 ACT will completely waive out of state tuition. Florida colleges have the lowest in-state tuition in the Southeast. South Florida's tuition is $6,410 a year. For comparison, Mississippi State is $9,220. The 30/4.0 brings it to $4,220.

For $2200 a year more than I can send my kid to my in-state alma mater, I can send them to a top 100, AAU university in a great city close to the beach with way more opportunities. It's a tough sell to talented, smart students who are driven to succeed at a high level.

The honors freshman dorm at USF is $4213 a semester. The 14 meal meal plan is $2350 and offers about 3 times the options that MSU does. The honors dorm at State is $4294 a semester, the equal meal plan is $2129, so those costs are basically the same.

On top of it all, I can buy a condo in Tampa for basically what it costs in Starkville nowadays if we go that route.

State has to step up its scholarship game to compete for great in-state students. Arkansas is waiving 90% of out of state to Mississippi residents. South Alabama has a billboard on 49 announcing in-state tuition to Mississippi residents. All of the Florida schools will waive it for ACT scores of 26-31 (varies by school - UF is 31, FSU and USF are 30, but UWF in Pensacola is 26). Their ultra low in-state tuition makes them very competitive for those who can get out of state waived.

In terms of a good school in a great city, USF is an awesome choice. I don’t know that I’d describe them as a sleeping giant, especially if you mean that from an athletic standpoint.

I grew up in Tampa and I’m very familiar with the area and the university. Most in state kids that are at UCF or USF are there because they couldn’t get in Florida or Florida state. It’s not a commenter school by any means but it’s not the same college experience that you get at Florida state (i mention that because you said your daughter was considering there too). Athletics won’t be a big part of her experience there, at least not USF athletics anyway. I have several friends that went to school there and they still attended more Florida football games than USF… hell probably went to more lighting games than USF events.

But in my opinion you’re absolutely right about Tampa being great. She will love Tampa. I probably value sports too much and attending sporting events in college. But I’d choose Florida state over USF all day. Move to Tampa after college.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I’m very meritocratic. I come across as liberal here because I’m in Mississippi and am not an 100 percent unthinking-have-to-be conservative.

Don’t feel bad: Democrats don’t know what to think about me either.

Paging @Mr. Cook — 615’s tried and I’ve tried but talking to our friend Goat about the state’s economic realities when considering that Mississippi’s best and brightest are leaving the state because they’re discouraged with Mississippi and its leadership is something he doesn’t quite understand.

Yes, yes, I know it’s at this point…

…but maybe you can approach it in a different direction?

You’re way off on this. No amount of cheesy Target jokes will make you understand that I accepted the reality of which you speak years, many years, ago.

I mean no offense but I’m kinda beyond the whole “I’m leaving the state because such and such”. Been there done all that.

If you and your posse could get past that, you’d see that we likely agree, but I’m much farther down the road on looking for solutions to the big problems that you point out. I’m not trying to say I’m better and know more….just pointing out that your assumptions are baseless and falling on deaf, but educated, ears.

I kinda think you already know these things. Maybe not, though. I’m not going to sit here and list my internet cred quals on this message board, so…..it is what it is.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

You’re way off on this. No amount of cheesy Target jokes will make you understand that I accepted the reality of which you speak years, many years, ago.

I mean no offense but I’m kinda beyond the whole “I’m leaving the state because such and such”. Been there done all that.

If you and your posse could get past that, you’d see that we likely agree, but I’m much farther down the road on looking for solutions to the big problems that you point out. I’m not trying to say I’m better and know more….just pointing out that your assumptions are baseless and falling on educated ears.

Well, all @Mr. Cook & I have to go by are your past statements.

From my perspective, you’ve largely cast yourself as a I Love Mississippi: If You Don’t Love It, You Better Leave it Guy and have mentioned many times about preferring homemade solutions — which aren’t solutions at all or do WAY too little.

If you’re saying my assumptions are baseless, communicate in a way that shows us what you REALLY want rather than just useless schtick.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Excellent post. My incoming freshman made 32 and has 3.9984, including dual enrollment classes at CoLin. Plus, he is a 4th generation Bulldog. State offered several scholarships, but the *full ride* we were expecting didn't happen. He's going into Aerospace engineering so, other in-state schools weren't an option. I am more than a little disappointed with what State offered, and grateful for all he earned at the same time.

So, do you have an out of state comparison? Because that’s what this is all about…

 

[AstroDog]

Lot of money, but looks nice.

 

[Cantdoitsal]

I hate to tell them, but a 35,000 seat stadium isn’t going to make them attractive to any decent conference. No matter how good their academics are.

Not understanding 35K at all. Here in Fort Worth I could catch a H.S. Game with close to that right down the road.