T/O: Why do people think this has only recently been happening?
- Thread starter LOTRGOTDAWGFAN
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Mississippi has made great progress on this in the last decade. So much that other states are starting to look at how we did it.
Are you saying homeschooling for this particular group of failing schools or in general ?
my experience has been home schooled kids receive a much better education than public schools and generally score higher on all standardized testing.
I'm sure you are aware that there are huge differences in school districts in this state. There are some pretty good public schools and some excellent private schools. A lot of that depends on the parents also
If things were the same in the 90s as they are now in the public schools, that tells me we aren't doing something right.
I love the "spare me the homeschooling and private schooling nonsense" caveat. I mean, people are seeing the same things you are seeing and are trying different things.
Public education is paid for by the government, therefore it's government education. There's a clear agenda there - prepare kids for the workforce, i.e. be the engine. That means, just like George Carlin said - they need to be just smart enough to do the paperwork and run the machines, but dumb enough to believe all the other bullshlt fed to them, to keep them in line. So at the end of the day, while I'm not a hater and saying you can't do well at the public school, there is not a whole lot of innovation going on there. The smart kids will do well and get in line to go to college, and the dumb ones won't, but they'll all have an element of sheep or social norm to them. And that's fine. And there will be exceptions, so please no one tell me a story about your own kid who is awesome and went to public school. Millions and billions of kids have gone to public school, there will be a shlt ton of good ones too.
Private school is in the middle. Homeschooling is most likely to produce independent thought, or at least teach that skill.
I love the "spare me the homeschooling and private schooling nonsense" caveat. I mean, people are seeing the same things you are seeing and are trying different things.
Public education is paid for by the government, therefore it's government education. There's a clear agenda there - prepare kids for the workforce, i.e. be the engine. That means, just like George Carlin said - they need to be just smart enough to do the paperwork and run the machines, but dumb enough to believe all the other bullshlt fed to them, to keep them in line. So at the end of the day, while I'm not a hater and saying you can't do well at the public school, there is not a whole lot of innovation going on there. The smart kids will do well and get in line to go to college, and the dumb ones won't, but they'll all have an element of sheep or social norm to them. And that's fine. And there will be exceptions, so please no one tell me a story about your own kid who is awesome and went to public school. Millions and billions of kids have gone to public school, there will be a shlt ton of good ones too.
Private school is in the middle. Homeschooling is most likely to produce independent thought, or at least teach that skill.
lol WHAT? Homeschooling is going to produce the parent-teacher's thought - good, bad, or ugly.
Average home schooler will likely fare better than the average non-home schooler. However, when it comes to extra curricular sports, arts, etc. they do not have access to the same programs that public schools offer. Basically, the home schooling floor is higher, but the ceiling is lower. A really good student can excel wherever. At least some "home" schools these days are really just private schools, mostly without a permanent campus, so these kids get some socialization. At the end of the day, business is done based on relationships. If you can't function among regular people, you will be at a deficit.
Homeschooling in my experience is just the opposite. Reduce independent thought and increase Christian programming while "protecting" little Timmy from the horrors that exist in the public schools.
I would guess 95% of homeschool kids come from stable 2 parent homes with the resources and parent education level to realize the importance of education. My guess is these are mostly top 10-20% kids if they were left in the public schools.
So I don't put much stock in comparing results of home schooled kids vs the median public school students. Probably better to compare them to private school kids as that was the likely other choice for the parents. Not opposed to it, but I would never consider it myself... I just always live in good public school districts.
Hijack-
One of the great unmentioned soft skills learned in America's public schools is that smart, well rounded kids have to learn to thrive amongst a lot of ássholes and idiots... both peers and teachers... just like when they grow up and get a job.
If homeschooling can teach kids how to not only tolerate, but work with and for the idiots... I'm all for it. Public school prepares them well for that inevitable life hurdle.
---Homeschooling is going to produce the parent-teacher's thought - good, bad, or ugly.
From what I hear an awful lot of the same is being produced in our college classrooms these days...
From what I hear an awful lot of the same is being produced in our college classrooms these days...
As to your soft skill of public school, if the private/homeschool kid stays in state to work/raise a family, then they generally don’t have to deal with the public school folks other than ruling over them. I’m only half joking. Look at our current leadership in MS.
Worldview wise.....I could see that, in many cases. I would think the optimal way to do it is to learn everything. I went to a conference a few years ago and one of the speakers was like I teach my kids the Bible and the Koran. Better than TV.
But the entire nature and essence of homeschooling is independent - figuring things out on your own.
You are probably right but it shouldn't.
Teach kids how to think critically, how to go below the surface level feel good arguments. I have all the confidence in the world that a kid who can think critically would vote accordingly and we would see a revival of leadership across both aisles in this country because they'd have to change.
I didn’t read all the horse docky above but my opinion is parents if they are engaged and understand their responsibilities and students (people) are capable(intelligent) will rise to the top and become the people we all wish regardless of what school they attend. My personal experience was my parents set the bar and gave me the opportunity/encouragement to achieve my dream!
Reducing independent thought is actually what is happening in public schools and universities. The younger generation can not think critically or think for themselves. it is politically correct group think. Individualism and independent thinking is discouraged.
this is readily apparent just interacting with college aged people.
Christian themed education is something I would value for my child. California has passed legislation mandating lgbtxyz education in elementary schools, that sounds like a horrible situation for those kids.
You must hang around really terrible people. You’re always able to throw out ridiculous examples that I NEVER seem to be exposed to and I’m exposed to a wide swath of different kinds of people.
But essentially I don’t believe any of your examples are real. They’re just boogie man beliefs you throw out there to back up your unrealistic stereotypes.
As a man that was homeschooled until jr high, married to a wife that was homeschooled all the way through, I would say regardless of atmosphere….parental involvement CANNOT be replaced. Mrs Rotor and I decided a while back that it was either private school or homeschool for our kids because we knew those two options would most likely align with our values. 17 public school. I went through it and I’ve enough friends that are teachers and whatnot, I do not want my children going through that, especially in the ridgeland school district (but we live in Madison, it’s weird).
"But do your homeschool kids get socialized at all?"
"No, we're raising them as capitalists."
Just a little humor.
"No, we're raising them as capitalists."
Just a little humor.
Lot of generalizations being thrown around in this thread.
My kids went to public school until public school wasn't an option (oldest was in 5th). It was a great one (Madison) and they would have probably stayed in public schools had we stayed there.
75% of my kids homeschool was normal online classes or even dual enrollment at a MS CC. The biggest difference is, we got to research the courses and read reviews and decide for ourselves if they were the right classes. One of my kids (dyslexic) struggled in math until we found the "way he learned" then found a course that taught that way. This isn't as easy in public or private schools. They've been able to study things that interested them because choices are unlimited online (most can be found free).
Socializing doesn't have to happen in school, it can happen anywhere. Sports doesn't have to happen in school, it can happen anywhere. All of my kids are musicians, 2 will have their black belts before graduating and regularly compete in tournaments. They are all scuba divers (did you know that counts as PE and a lot more fun than dodgeball, as does Taekwando). They're all fluent in a 2nd language.
Oh, and they can complete all their work in about 4 hours a day and finish their school year in about 6 months if they want to.
It ALL boils down to the parents to raise their children. Public school kids with good parents can be fine, just like private school kids with ****** parents can turn out badly. Some homeschool parents homeschool because they are crazy, others because they want more influence on what their kids are taught. Ours was out of necessity but I'm glad we had to go that route.
My kids went to public school until public school wasn't an option (oldest was in 5th). It was a great one (Madison) and they would have probably stayed in public schools had we stayed there.
75% of my kids homeschool was normal online classes or even dual enrollment at a MS CC. The biggest difference is, we got to research the courses and read reviews and decide for ourselves if they were the right classes. One of my kids (dyslexic) struggled in math until we found the "way he learned" then found a course that taught that way. This isn't as easy in public or private schools. They've been able to study things that interested them because choices are unlimited online (most can be found free).
Socializing doesn't have to happen in school, it can happen anywhere. Sports doesn't have to happen in school, it can happen anywhere. All of my kids are musicians, 2 will have their black belts before graduating and regularly compete in tournaments. They are all scuba divers (did you know that counts as PE and a lot more fun than dodgeball, as does Taekwando). They're all fluent in a 2nd language.
Oh, and they can complete all their work in about 4 hours a day and finish their school year in about 6 months if they want to.
It ALL boils down to the parents to raise their children. Public school kids with good parents can be fine, just like private school kids with ****** parents can turn out badly. Some homeschool parents homeschool because they are crazy, others because they want more influence on what their kids are taught. Ours was out of necessity but I'm glad we had to go that route.
I’m embedded in the homeschool community via church friends. that is my experience. Hearing parental motivation and being around homeschool families. I’m sure there might be places in the country where homeschooling is not primarily a way to embed Christian principles, but I don’t have any relatable knowledge on that front. Interestingly enough, several of these families now have high schoolers who have lobbied for and been allowed to go public for band or sports.
You caught me. I’m an aspiring writer who spends days editing fiction for SPS. Beyond instilling Christian principles, what reasons do your friend send their kids to homeschool? That’s literally the only reason I’ve ever heard my friends state.
Are you in Mississippi? To-date, I don't think they allow that here. I think they have to get permission from the district maybe, but that likely will not happen.
they were homeschooled until high school and then elected to leave and go to the public school in their district. I have one set of friends who have a mix of homeschool/private school/public school attenders. I've never asked them how that ended up that way, but they stay in the road trying to accomodate all of those different schedules.
ETA: by "lobbied", I meant convinced their parents. re-reading it, I can see why it would be confusing. Still working on my fiction writing...
My daughter home schools but does it online. We have nothing to do with it. It is basically a private school online. I just have to sign paperwork for the State each year saying that she is home schooled. She will have a high school diploma when she is finished. You would probably be surprise just how many home-schooled kids are not being taught by parents.
That was why I made the jump. Am I glad I did? Eh, pros and cons to both sides. I don’t do reunions, don’t talk to anyone from my grade, the friends I did have in high school have either passed away or moved on. I still hold to my belief that parental involvement is irreplaceable. It isn’t the teachers fault that kids are sub par, their job is to instruct. Hearing stories of teachers being unable to issue grades below 70….it isn’t surprising that MS had all of a sudden made leaps and bounds in the education atmosphere…
You are correct on parental responsibility. Whatever "it" is that you want your kids to understand is best coming from you and your example.
Agreed. And what people really need to realize, is that no 'school' is the right way. I started questioning this a while back, why have we accepted this schedule of school as the way? 12 grades, prom, all that shlt. It's basically because "that's how we've always done it", which I hate. I'm not saying you have to disrupt the system, but you damn sure must question it. And public school was created to make obedient workers - to give the minimum level education needed to move this country forward. Not to mention it's a free (in the case for public school) baby sitter. That said, public school is definitely needed at this point in time because there's just way too many kids that have no other option, and it's good for them, some folks need to be molded into obedient citizens.
Home schooling is the LEAST likely to produce independent thought. In most cases that is the whole point of doing it. Now that is a parent's privilege and I have no problem with that.
Please provide the data that supports your opinion.
That's going a good bit too far. There are far too many schools that are a bad enough environment that even children with good parents wouldn't be able to overcome them. That's hard to prove because almost by definition, good parents wouldn't leave their kid stranded at those schools. But it is tragic how many kids are trapped in those types of environments.
I think the whole being around different people argument is grossly overrated. Maybe if you're talking about truly elite private schools, they are so sheltered that they have trouble adjusting, but I think most of that is just innate personality traits. And even for those that aren't naturally people persons, at least in the work place and business, I've never seen a need to do much beyond treating people decently.
And honestly, I'd be worried about my kid feeling out of place around rich and powerful people than feeling out of place around lower income people or felons.
As a product of Memphis city schools, I would have welcomed an outlet from the horrors that existed in Kingsbury High School.
Not sure how it is these days, but (and I'm generalizing... no offense home-schoolers) this was a major downfall of home-schooled kids I interacted with growing up. Most were generally strange and lacked the social skills absorbed in an environment where you interacted with lots of different cultures/people every day.
It’s been my experience that reduction of independent thought occurs long before students attend college.
College profs love students to be independent and show initiative. However, many of them don’t.
We need and will soon get a drastic change in our education. I know public schools will be shut down. Feds getting out of it. We need to teach kids how to think for themselves, logic and reasoning. Things that will help them, and get away from teaching garbage and training them to be factory workers, we don’t have factories anymore. Breaks for class change, walking single file without talking, breaks for lunch, and teaching garbage is training not teaching.
We will see a drastic change in everything soon, but education especially. We need to teach the truth about what we teach, trash all text books. More STEM and trade schools, less colleges and training for factories.
It’s coming!!!!!
I seriously doubt they were strange because they were home schooled. They were very likely strange because their parents were strange.