Not sure how any of this applies to anything I said, which is why I formed a question not a statement trying to understand your comment. I’m out.
T/O: Why do people think this has only recently been happening?
- Thread starter LOTRGOTDAWGFAN
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my post is about individual education at home and what brilliant men it produced, with modern technology every child has access to just as good of an education by home schooling. That’s the point.
For you to respond with “racism” just shows how completely brainwashed and short circuited your addled brain has become, must be a product of public education.
I also see you can’t bring up any great American statesman in our history without you crying racism and slavery. Another indication you’re a product of Obama’s critical race theory dept of education.
my post had nothing to do with slavery or race but that was your automatic reply vomited out like a non thinking Eggplant.
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Trade schools are important. Plumbers and electricians I know do well. One has an indoor pool, although he did inherit a little money. And they're working in their fifties. It helps that they had sons, no daughters, to work in the business. There are people who just aren't college material and would be better off learning a skill that provides a middle to upper-middle class life. I wasn't engineering school material because of something called Calc II. I went to State and didn't get in to Harvard because I wasn't smart enough. Neither of those things have stopped me from having a good life. BTW, most college students are women because they have fewer opportunities to earn a good living without a college degree (they're not becoming welders).
But, some jobs are tough on a man's body so disability insurance is essential. I would also like to see Medicare eligibility lowered to 55 for this reason.
Jobs in retail often pay well. Asst managers at some stores do fine and there's air conditioning involved.
But, some jobs are tough on a man's body so disability insurance is essential. I would also like to see Medicare eligibility lowered to 55 for this reason.
Jobs in retail often pay well. Asst managers at some stores do fine and there's air conditioning involved.
On a fundamental level, you don't know what you're talking about. Every family I know that homeschools, and I know many, is following an "established curriculum," as you say. The idea that a family has to invent its own curriculum or else it's not true homeschool is asinine. Homeschooling occurs when a student is educated at home instead of at a physical school. Period. If you have trouble with that definition, consult a dictionary.
Home schooled kids are 17ing weird. If your kids are home schooled they are likely weird as well. Sorry to offend anyone but that's what I see in person.
In Florida a home schooled child can play sports at any high school in the district they are zones. My kids both say those kids are doomed when it comes to socialization.
Quit raising nerds.
YMMV
I do know some AC guys and plumbers who have trouble finding decent workers even with a starting salary around $18-$20. Not bad for right out of high school. Demographics have changed, families are smaller, and the guys likely to work in trades are harder to find. The stories about Americans with a poor work ethic and those on drugs are true. It's gotten worse since Covid and especially with our incredibly low unemployment rate today that favors hard working Americans, they can switch jobs for more pay, something that isn't all that bad if you're a hard-working American.
I enjoy reading some of the most ludicrous, uninformed stuff people post on here. I taught in the public school system for 13 years. 2 at a high school and 11 at a Career Technology Center. I have a masters degree in teaching and had to do a lot of research to receive the degree. I had a perfect 4.0 BTW.
Here's some of the truths I've read on here:
1. "My child is going to college but other less gifted kids need to go to trade school." All parents want their kids to go to college because they are either uninformed or egotistical. Kids that go the career tech route make more money in a lot of cases than their college grad counterparts and have a higher demand than college grads. Of course engineers, doctors, lawyers, architects are more likely to make the most money and are the exceptions. One of the highest demand jobs is nursing which is a career tech route. The top end pay is ridiculously high.
2. "Home schooled kids are more capable of independent thought". Unfortunately, this is true because our school systems tend to focus on the "one size fits all" teaching model. Sure, there are some exceptional teachers that defy the model but they are rare. When a parent teaches their kids they are interested in what the kid wants to learn which allows them to channel the learning. It is what we should be doing in our schools but that is difficult with 30 kids for 1 hour classes.
3. "Parents are the most important variable in kids learning ". Do you know what all ingenious people have in common? They had a parent that looked at them positively when they were performing a task which made them want to continue pursuing the task. Never underestimate the power of progeny in the field of education. In all my years of teaching I had about 10% of my student's parents show up for PTA meetings. The parents that showed up were ALWAYS my best students.
4. "Home schooled kids don't have a problem with socialization." Do y'all really believe these kids are living in a bubble? They go to church, go on field trips or travel abroad with parents. They join boy scouts or girl scouts. Parents aren't going to isolate their kids from society.
There are more but that's some of the glaring truths I've seen posted.
Here's my observation about life in general. Life is a team sport in all facets.
Religion - one of the funniest to me. People join a church then suddenly everyone else is doing religion wrong except their denomination.
Politics - unfortunately in the US we have only 2 choices but you have to pick a team! No independent thought here. Your team tells you how to think and the other team is always wrong!
Make up whatever story you have to to cover up.
Work - if you work on a line the engineers were idiots because their design is flawed. The engineers think the line workers are idiots because they don't follow instructions.
All of it depends on Parents.
I have never seen a student no succeed in both school and in early life if the following happens:
1. Parents are engaged early teaching their kids basic social skills and basic discipline. Before and during PreK
2. Parents make sure their kid is ready to go to school, that being understand how to be quiet, listen, know their letters, numbers, colors, shapes, and have a healthy curiosity to learn new things. PreK-3
3. Parents stay engaged every single day to ensure their kids are doing what is asked of them and doing it correctly. Establishing homework time and goals. Also, as kids learn new things, discuss those things with their child. K-3
4. Parents hold their kids to a high standard of attitude, energy, discipline, and educational standards.
5. Parents working with teachers to make sure their kid is getting what they need to succeeed.
Biggest one of them all - Kids need to sleep and be ready to learn each and every single day.
Do these things and great habits are formed. Do not do these things, and it doesn't matter how much money we spend per student. A kid that is not prepared, not disciplined, not rested, and hungry cannot learn. PERIOD.
Discipline may be the most important. Time for some parents to beat some kids asses, because that is a lot of the problem in schools today.
Yes, it is open for kids around the state to enroll into.
As a state, we have had the ability to move a child into other districts for as long as I've been aware. The request had to be in by early April the year before though, to account for district budgeting.
This last Legislative session, lawmakers decided to do away with that and allow kids to transfer to other districts at any time. Drop of a hat- boom, district change.
It's 17es some school district planning up, obviously.
On a related note, this past Legislative session also saw the creation of a program that allows taxpayer dollars to go to private schools, and the private schools don't have to track or report how those public funds are spent.
It's 17ing bonkers right now.
I genuinely am fine with 'school choice'. If you want to drive 20min to another school district, OK I guess.
Giving public funds to private schools and not requiring oversight for how those funds are used? That's horrible.
You claimed the statesmen were smart and well educated due to the intense home schooling they were afforded.
I responded with commentary to show why that claim is worthless.
- they were home schooled because of a lack of public schooling even existing. That doesn't therefore mean homeschooling is better.
- they were brilliant, yet they chose some terrible governing laws. No my comments weren't just race based. I pointed out half the population(women) were also excluded, and mentioned non land owning men were excluded. So again, race was just one of the things I pointed out.
You claimed I can't bring up any great historical statesmen without mentioning racism or slavery?...that makes no sense. I didn't bring any up because that wasn't the purpose of my post. My lack of mentioning something doesn't mean I am incapable of mentioning it. I simply didn't focus on that because it wasn't part of the point.
So many in this 17ing fan base lack critical thinking while confidently walking around thinking they are brilliant.
Doing an online school curriculum at home can be viewed as homeschooling, but my point in that earlier post was that it is different from what some think homeschooling is, and also that such a process isn't always homeschooling.
A kid can be part of an online academy- that isn't homeschooling. A kid can get a diploma from my school district while taking every class at home- that isn't homeschooling.
I see our Fanbase only winning three games…
Possibly 4 if we get some favorable calls.
Minor disagreement. I see plenty of those poor Americans (most on drugs) with a really good work ethic. They do hard work all the time. They just don't stick with it. It seems once there's some money in their pocket, they quit. I don't know if that's a lack of impulse control or delayed gratification, or the knowledge that crappy jobs will always be available so no worries bud, I'll go get one when I need one YOLO. The breakdown of career advancement for labor probably has something to do with it.
"From each according to his ability"
I always knew you were secretly a communist*
You do not understand.
Many of us are in this thread agreeing or disagreeing, and making good points. You, and maybe another, are just being an A$$HOLE to anyone who may disagree. That's the difference. Nobody wants to engage you because you blow off the handle and turn into a whiny bltch. It's hard to fathom how you do not understand that you start most of these long arguments that you get involved in.
At least @HotMop admits to trolling.
Not that there's not a grain of truth here, but the apolitical pox on both Parties nothing will ever change crowd is its own form of group think, especially those that insist both Parties are the same nope nope nope I will not consider that maybe the Dems are a normal Party with normal faults and the GOP has gone nuts.
Both are right.
Our general population refuses to think critically, or is incapable. This is just reflective of a sadder truth. I wish it were only on SPS…
I’m around tons of homeschoolers. It’s very trendy in my area. Originally I thought it was for weirdos, but I’ve totally flipped my opinion. All the kids are super smart and the parents make sure their kids are involved with club sports and other activities.
What I like is the efficiency. Most of these kids finish their classes in around 4 hours because the parent can focus entirely on the kid. Then they can spend the rest of the day doing activities with other homeschoolers. Lots of the parents get together and do at least 1 field trip a week.
The biggest issue is being positioned to be be able to do it.
What I like is the efficiency. Most of these kids finish their classes in around 4 hours because the parent can focus entirely on the kid. Then they can spend the rest of the day doing activities with other homeschoolers. Lots of the parents get together and do at least 1 field trip a week.
The biggest issue is being positioned to be be able to do it.
Making good points, huh? That's a rich comment, coming from someone who just agreed that there is very little use for high school in it's current form.
If you genuinely believe that, then you unfortunately live in an area that straight up sucks for education. I've said it many times on here before- I don't get why so many people choose to plant their family in a place with crap education when they have the mobility to live elsewhere. Everyone must be tied to extended family in their areas...thats about the only justification I can think of.
As for your post and claims that nobody engages with me...you posted that in response to a comment I made to another poster who had engaged in conversation with me.
Like...the 17?
My comment that you quoted was posted by me because the other person went off on an emotional rant and claimed I am some Obama CRT fan(what even is an Obama CRT fan?) who sees race everywhere, even though race was only one of multiple points I made.
Yeah, that poster sure as 17 seems like they are walking around confidently thinking they rule when they don't even realize they lack some basic critical thinking.
I am in 100% agreement. The existing system is broken. I hated high school because I felt it was holding me back. Most teachers teach to the lowest level in the classroom.
The way it should be structured.
1-5 grades teach foundational education (reading, writing, arithmetic, History, and health).
6-8 Advanced foundational education with a heavy focus on career selection. By the end of the 8th grade students should know the career they want to pursue.
9-12 Career focused education coupled with local universities and trade schools. CTCs and ALCs are already engaged with universities and trade schools. Dual credit courses allow students to get college credit while in high school. Why not allow some more advanced students make the jump from high school to the universities and trade schools?
The biggest failure of public education is graduating students that have no idea what they want to be when they grow up.
Ha ha ha, what the complete 17?
Its bonkers to claim 13 and 14 year olds should know the career they want to pursue.
Kids that age are getting hard-ons from just walking down the hallway.
The fact that many HS graduates dont know what they want to be/do for a career is hardly the fault of the school system.
Also, go look at how many times the average US worker not only changes jobs, but changes careers/industries. Pigeonholing 13 year old kids into a career path, knowing how often careers change, is questionable at best.
If SPS were a School District, it would have been taken over by the state YEARS ago…
Early contender for new SPS slogan.
If ‘officially unofficial’ & ‘abandon all hope’ work here, then why not?
Pigeonholed? I think you have some reading comprehension issues. The reason students don't know what they want to be is because they are not aware of the jobs that are out there and they haven't been tested to see where they would enjoy working. I suggested they would learn that with career opportunity training 6-8 grades. The students would work with their parents to determine the field and work toward after that. If they find they don't like their chosen field they can change. Or, we can leave the failed system as is so kids come out clueless which you seem to feel is appropriate.
It's easy to find fault when you have little understanding. I applaud you.
Pre-Covid: Americans were more educated than any prior generation. Education has limits and it's not a failed system although it could use some reforms that actually work better. There are individual and group differences in ability and educational achievement that are hard to overcome and even harder for some to accept. Asian Americans and African immigrants from Nigeria and Ghana are bossing it in America compared to other groups. Get yourself a Punjabi doctor and you'll be fine and well taken care of.
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Nope, I didn't miss your comment that kids would have a heavy focus on career selection when they are 11, 12, and 13 years old.
Yeah, I guessed that part of the 'heavy focus' would be learning about various careers.
Agin, it's 17ing bonkers to suggest this is a good idea.
No 12 year old is like 'I want to be a Nurse Anesthetist!' or 'I want to be a siding and roof salesman!' because that isn't how reality works.
12 years olds are incredibly willing to be talked into things. They are also notoriously willing to go with what they know instead of what they don't know. 'I like climbing in trees, I'll be an arborist!'.
'I like animals and science, I'll be an Vet!'
Yada Yada Yada.
What 12 year old is going to spend the next 6 years learning semi truck driving?
What 12 year old is going to spend the next 6 years learning department store sales cashier?
Should all those kids just continue to learn traditional subjects, or what?
And how would small school districts train kids in the dozens upon dozens of career paths? The cost would be insurmountable. So instead, they would limit what kids can train for.
Brilliant.***
Who said anything about "talking the into anything?". Guess you also missed my point about aligning with local colleges and universities as well. A vet school kid would take allied health. You already have the teachers available. They would just teach other subjects. BTW, you said all thes folks still don't know what they want to be. That's because they haven't learned whats out there. And if a student went into engineering/physics and found they didn't like it then they are ahead of where they would be going to college for engineering. Still time to adjust and find a fitting career BEFORE college.
Also, a student doesn't select a path until the 9th grade. That is 15 years old not 12 but thanks for playing.
We already have engineering, welding, construction, auto body, business and allied health. Each of those cover a lot of fields a student would find fits their career path. The reason students hate high school is due to the fact they don't have a goal. They are simply checking boxes to get through it. The best way to accomplish a goal is to begin with the end in mind. With what I'm suggesting their curriculum would have more meaning for them.
F17S.
I said 13 and 14 year olds because that is the age range of 99% of 8th graders. You said they should know what their career will be by the end of 8th grade. Well come June of 8th grade, kids are 13 and 14.
When I mentioned 11, 12, and 13 year olds, I was responding to your comment that middle school needs to be when kids learn the countless number of careers available to them. That's because 6th and 7th graders are this age range as well as many in the first half of 8th.
My gosh, you can't even follow ages that are based on your own hypothetical scenario.
I'm not getting into everything else when you aren't following along with why I typed different age ranges.
I said 13 and 14 year olds because that is the age range of 99% of 8th graders. You said they should know what their career will be by the end of 8th grade. Well come June of 8th grade, kids are 13 and 14.
When I mentioned 11, 12, and 13 year olds, I was responding to your comment that middle school needs to be when kids learn the countless number of careers available to them. That's because 6th and 7th graders are this age range as well as many in the first half of 8th.
My gosh, you can't even follow ages that are based on your own hypothetical scenario.
I'm not getting into everything else when you aren't following along with why I typed different age ranges.
I know kids who knew what they wanted to be when they were younger— and they turned out to do just that.
It doesn’t work with most of them though. It sure didn’t work that way for me.
Yep. Aligning with local colleges — particularly community colleges is the usual course of practice in Mississippi especially since there are so many small school districts.
Hinds CC did a lot of the training for folks who wanted jobs at Continental Tire.
That said, maybe the biggest reason students hate high school— isn’t necessarily because they don’t have a goal— it’s more that obtaining the goal usually isn’t possible at the high school level and many of them don’t appreciate the importance of literacy and thinking skills when they’re younger.
They sign up for their 9th grade classes in July. That is when they select their career path. When a student starts the 9th grade they are 14-15 years old. Not 13. I know you are straining to prove your point but it ain't working.
You can look that up. I assume it's been so long for you thar you've forgotten. I assume you have a much better plan then. I'm willing to hear it. I know my years of teaching and my Masters degree don't qualify me in your eyes to develop an alternative so I'll look to you for guidance.
I believe Germany does education similar to what you describe. I agree that we need a reset in how we educate our children. This is an attractive model to consider, in my mind.
I've had students that knew what they wanted to be when they started my classes. I've also had students that were interested in engineering but decided after the first year that it wasn't what they wanted as a career. Both are great because in the long run they are finding their niche in life.I know kids who knew what they wanted to be when they were younger— and they turned out to do just that.
It doesn’t work with most of them though. It sure didn’t work that way for me.
Yep. Aligning with local colleges — particularly community colleges is the usual course of practice in Mississippi especially since there are so many small school districts.
Hinds CC did a lot of the training for folks who wanted jobs at Continental Tire.
That said, maybe the biggest reason students hate high school— isn’t necessarily because they don’t have a goal— it’s more that obtaining the goal usually isn’t possible at the high school level and many of them don’t appreciate the importance of literacy and thinking skills when they’re younger.
The biggest problem I see is when 9th grades come to the CTC to investigate what we offer only a handful even know what engineers do. It's sad that career education isn't happening at an earlier time in their education and here we are saying make a decision.
Imagine you are in the 7th or 8th grade and you get to role play in various careers so you understand what they do. Some you will hate while others will be appealing to you. Local business and community colleges come to the classroom and overview the field after the role playing.
I'm not surprised that anyone graduating from the current educational system struggled with deciding what they wanted to do for a living. Right now it is a crap shoot for most.
A crap shoot??? Really? Where has your model been implemented and shown to work? The German model, which our K-12 system is based on to a significant degree, actually limits choice by directing students to trades and they get to choose among the trades. No med or engineering school for them, or at least their options are quite limited. We actually, and perhaps excessively, encourage students to go to college because a college grad outperforms high school grads on a host of measures. But, not all students are college material.
"I'm not surprised that anyone graduating from the current educational system struggled with deciding what they wanted to do for a living"
I'm not surprised either because that's pretty normal in a country that allows people to choose careers and they have options. It's not odd for college students to switch major, even a couple of times, and enter a profession only tangentially related to their majors. It happens. I don't think the problem in K-12 education is that too many high school kids are unsure what they want to do with the 75% of their remaining lives.
"Imagine you are in the 7th or 8th grade and you get to role play in various careers so you understand what they do. Some you will hate while others will be appealing to you."
Imagine indeed. Some jobs that are appealing to middle schoolers may not be when they actually experience what life is it's like in those professions. Middle schoolers might not actually have the best understanding of what decades of employment in a given profession is like. Plus, there's no shortage of informtion online about jobs and professions.
I'm all for a greater emphasis on trades and skills.
"I'm not surprised that anyone graduating from the current educational system struggled with deciding what they wanted to do for a living"
I'm not surprised either because that's pretty normal in a country that allows people to choose careers and they have options. It's not odd for college students to switch major, even a couple of times, and enter a profession only tangentially related to their majors. It happens. I don't think the problem in K-12 education is that too many high school kids are unsure what they want to do with the 75% of their remaining lives.
"Imagine you are in the 7th or 8th grade and you get to role play in various careers so you understand what they do. Some you will hate while others will be appealing to you."
Imagine indeed. Some jobs that are appealing to middle schoolers may not be when they actually experience what life is it's like in those professions. Middle schoolers might not actually have the best understanding of what decades of employment in a given profession is like. Plus, there's no shortage of informtion online about jobs and professions.
I'm all for a greater emphasis on trades and skills.
How long have you been teaching or is this just your personal perspective? You would be amazed how intelligent 15 year olds are. As I said, the students that came to my class that had a career goal did the best. I can't figure out why you and Golfer think I'm suggesting focusing students on particular careers. I'm saying expose them to as many as you can 6 through 8 grades then let them make an educated decision. That is not happening now. You move the indecision back to high school instead of college. And yes, nobody has done this so you can't say it will be the same even if we do it. Right now most high school graduates have no idea. That is why they change majors. I guess some on here want students to be as indecisive as they were!