Take on the Hines/Jordan slumps......

[thekimmer]

As talented as these guys are when 'on' the depth of their helplessness when 'off' really limits the value they bring to the team and having them both slumping at the same time at this time of year is devastating. It is further exacerbated by the breadth of their slumps going long stretches where they can't even make a productive out. No offense to these guys, but I think I would much rather have a consistent .270 hitter that hits 5 HR a year with 30 Ks than a guy hitting .300 with 10+HR, 70+Ks and frequently disappears for entire weekends and now even weeks at a time. It is great when they are on but such inconsistency has obviously make it difficult to build success.

Question for the board. How much of this do you place on coaching or is this just their natural tendency? Hines BA and Ks have gotten worse every year he has played (.300/58, .297/64, .265/73) Jordan's BA improved but his Ks have skyrocketed (.307/46, .339/77).

I just know it is BRUTAL to watch this happen right now.

 

[patdog]

Part of it is just the nature of baseball. Either of those guys is fully capable of driving in 10 runs this weekend. I'm a lot more concerned about Hines than Jordan though. His HR totals are OK, but his BA is awful and as you point out, he's gotten progressively worse every year he's been here.

 

[HuntDawg]

A consistent 270 hitter with no power doesn’t win games.

both are fine. Jordan’s tear early in the season probably saved us a few losses. Hines led the team in homers during sec play. We likely have 3-4 more sec losses without him.

neither of these guys are the issue. Yes they are in a slump now. But we needed guys like Larry and Koehler to be more consistent. We needed a real catcher playing. We needed more out of our DH spot.

they look like they have the weight of the world on their shoulders because up until recently they did. If they didn’t hit, we didn’t win. Hard to be successful when that’s the case.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

Hines has been a streaky hitter for 3 years, so I am not as concerned about him. He could get hot & hit 5-6 home runs in 3-4 games this weekend or he could go 2-19 with 10 Ks. If he gets hot, he can carry this team.

This DJ thing is perplexing. He will always have a lot of swing & miss, but he just looks lost at the plate. He kinda reminds me of Steve Sax not being able to make throw to first base on a ground ball from 2nd base.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Hines has been exposed a little. Jordan has to calm his mind and work on a couple things.

 

[NukeDogg]

If either or both of them were better home run hitters, then we wouldn't feel so bad at them having an all or nothing approach. If you're hitting 25+ homers like Caglianone or Condon or Laviolette, it's easier to stomach the high K rate. But Hines and DJ combined have as many homers as Cags.

We need their homers, absolutely, but at this point of the season when every game is a virtual elimination game, we need productive at bats. If they're up with RISP, they absolutely have to be able to put the ball in play somehow.

 

[Tall Dawg]

They need to start bunting.

 

[Seinfeld]

I want to put some blame on coaching, and maybe that's where some of it should be, but it's hard for me to imagine that Gautreau or any other respectable hitting coach trained either one of them to approach at bats like they're currently doing. No patience, no willingness to battle and foul off tough pitches, no desire to advance runners or make productive outs... it's just swing for Omaha every at bat, and the last month of ineptitude hasn't been about bad luck for either one of them. They're missing pitches by a mile

When you’ve got a couple black holes in the heart of the order like we’ve had with those two for the last month, there’s definitely a part of me that wants to replace them, but I think the fact of the matter is that we aren’t getting to Omaha without them. I just can’t see it, and maybe they figure it out or maybe it’s hey don’t, but our championship potential rests on them producing

 

[pseudonym]

The new season starts tomorrow. No reason not to believe their slumps were left in Hoover.

In sports, and especially in baseball, you are what the numbers say you are.

Individual Conference Batting Statistics

#	PLAYER	AVG	OPS	GP-GS	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	TB	SLG%	BB	HBP	SO	GDP	OB%	SF	SH	SB
42	Jordan, Dakota	.304	.909	30-30	112	22	34	6	0	5	18	55	.491	20	2	42	0	.418	0	0	0-1
44	Hines, Hunter	.254	.972	30-30	114	26	29	5	0	12	31	70	.614	19	0	42	1	.358	1	0	0-0

SEC hitting stats across the league (14 teams, 210 games): AVG 0.268, SLG% 0.465, OB% 0.365, and OPS 0.830.

I'm not giving up on Hunter and Dakota.

 

[NukeDogg]

When you’ve got a couple black holes in the heart of the order like we’ve had with those two for the last month, there’s definitely a part of me that wants to replace them, but I think the fact of the matter is that we aren’t getting to Omaha without them. I just can’t see it, and maybe they figure it out or maybe it’s hey don’t, but our championship potential rests on them producing

That's the crux of it - you gotta leave them in there to work through it because them producing is our best shot at winning and advancing. All it could take is one good hit early in Game 1 to reinstill that confidence and start them on a hot streak and one or both of them could win the regional for us.

 

[HuntDawg]

If either or both of them were better home run hitters, then we wouldn't feel so bad at them having an all or nothing approach. If you're hitting 25+ homers like Caglianone or Condon or Laviolette, it's easier to stomach the high K rate. But Hines and DJ combined have as many homers as Cags.

We need their homers, absolutely, but at this point of the season when every game is a virtual elimination game, we need productive at bats. If they're up with RISP, they absolutely have to be able to put the ball in play somehow.

While I agree. Condon cags and laviolette are all top 5 overall picks. those guys don’t grow on trees

 

[pseudonym]

While I agree. Condon cags and laviolette are all top 5 overall picks. those guys don’t grow on trees

It's simple: Have hitters like Condon and Cags in your lineup. I don't know why more teams don't do this.

 

[onewoof]

I still have thoughts on this I will share in a few weeks

 

[DawgsNCowboys87]

I feel like DJ showed at least a little sign of life at the end of the SEC tournament it’s like others have said I’m more worried about Hunter. I feel like he may be further from coming out of his slump. However he could catch fire for all I know but it does seem like he’s been barely even hitting a foul ball lately. He is again however prone to go off at times and destroy some balls but I don’t really know what to say other than I just wish he’d put some balls in play at least. Not all or these all or nothing home run swings from him or both honestly. It’s just one of the differences our 2021 team TA and Rowdy had good plate approaches among reliable Josh Hatcher and others. Although I realize older and more years under their belts but they should know by now it isn’t really working. I wish DK would realize how few strikes he actually sees and get ahead in counts and some walks even. I hope their bats wake up and quick fast.

 

[kired]

Seems to me Jordan's trying to be superman. He's bought into the hype around him, and trying to win the game with every swing. It's in his head now and I don't know how to clear it out. Maybe playing in Charlottesville instead of Starkville or another SEC atmosphere will help.

Hines - just throw him breaking balls. People are finally figuring it out.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Hines is what he is - like Kellum Clark. Power is their tool. DJ has a few more tools.

A reasonable number of K's aren't always terrible, as long as the OPS is there. But those two's K numbers are way over the top.

I'm kinda curious why no one is talking about the pressure, or responsibility, whatever, that comes with being NIL whores like these guys were at the end of last season.

 

[bolddogge]

As tough as it has been, they have to do their best to relax, put it out of their minds, and play through it.

 

[dog12]

We should at least move them into a different spot in the batting order.

Maybe that would help them relax and break out of their slumps.

 

[DawgsNCowboys87]

We should at least move them into a different spot in the batting order.

Maybe that would help them relax and break out of their slumps.

Where would you put them if it were up to you just merely curious? I thought of that but then recognized it might make some sense but then again location change and starting a regional might get them or at least one of them going but who knows.. I just know we gotta have em swing a hot bat to win this regional of at least one of them steady hitting well. Mershon and Hujsack are gonna get their hits and walks among some others surely I hope but we really need DJ and HH to come through that much is for sure

 

[HuntDawg]

Where would you put them if it were up to you just merely curious? I thought of that but then recognized it might make some sense but then again location change and starting a regional might get them or at least one of them going but who knows.. I just know we gotta have em swing a hot bat to win this regional of at least one of them steady hitting well. Mershon and Hujsack are gonna get their hits and walks among some others surely I hope but we really need DJ and HH to come through that much is for sure

I would go

Jordan
Mersh
Huj
Hines
Chance
Kohler
Larry
Powell
DH

 

[Msuirondawgs]

Baseball is such a game of peaks and valleys. These boys didnt forget how to play or hit. My guess is with our "tools", data, video, etc thats available now, someone(Gaut) has pointed out what's happening and what to work on.

My biggest concern would be whiff rate and barrel percentage(lack of). There are times when even a medium depth fly out/sac fly would be helpful. The K burgers are what hurt the most.

 

[thatsbaseball]

That's the crux of it - you gotta leave them in there to work through it because them producing is our best shot at winning and advancing. All it could take is one good hit early in Game 1 to reinstill that confidence and start them on a hot streak and one or both of them could win the regional for us.

"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical"

Yogi

 

[DawgsNCowboys87]

Baseball is such a game of peaks and valleys. These boys didnt forget how to play or hit. My guess is with our "tools", data, video, etc thats available now, someone(Gaut) has pointed out what's happening and what to work on.

My biggest concern would be whiff rate and barrel percentage(lack of). There are times when even a medium depth fly out/sac fly would be helpful. The K burgers are what hurt the most.

To me you nailed it perfectly especially the second paragraph which what meant in my post it’s just the flat out the bottom line at this point and I wholeheartedly agree! Great post you basically put what I wanted to say in short form, you don’t need my congrats but still I want to give it on a great post among many others too! Only concern is I hear just seems like Gautreau people talking abt Gaut seem to think he’s just suddenly lost it. Which it’s hard to put any blame on him when It certainly doesn’t look like proof any evidence to the contrary. Sometimes I will get to thinking about it but then I’m like surely he’s doing his best and hope his best is enough

 

[HuntDawg]

Strikeout is 1 out. We get 27 a game. There is no difference in a strikeout and a pop up. But we don’t track pop ups. Also can’t hit into a double play when you strikeout….

i would separate them. Have a good hitter in between them…. But we have 2 of the top 20
Power guys in the league…. Unless we start getting the tip top recruits, going to have to take some bad with the good

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Baseball is such a game of peaks and valleys. These boys didnt forget how to play or hit. My guess is with our "tools", data, video, etc thats available now, someone(Gaut) has pointed out what's happening and what to work on.

My biggest concern would be whiff rate and barrel percentage(lack of). There are times when even a medium depth fly out/sac fly would be helpful. The K burgers are what hurt the most.

100% agree when it comes to the college game. It's almost like little league again, or even travel ball - just put the ball in play, make the other team make a play. It's entertaining baseball.

However, most of the metrics/showcases/etc. are based on what translates at the pro game. It's a delicate dance for college coaches, when choosing players. If you don't get the most talented guys, you end up like us. In the pros, over the course of a season, K's aren't that big of a deal as long as you are producing to go with them.

Most of these guys are trained on pro metrics. And pro baseball is boring.

If the sport is truly watching reality, they'd look at what travel ball and win-at-all-costs college ball is doing, and try to capitalize on some of that. They need some excitement back into it. That's where the eyeballs and money is. I'm not saying it's good, but it's reality. MLB is still living off the old days of either watching baseball or watching crops grow. It's just way too long and cumbersome and boring of a season. Need less season, and more playoffs.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Slumps are like a lot of things - the more you talk about it, the bigger it gets.

The first time one of them walks up to the plate not giving a shitt, not feeling any pressure, he will line one to right and this will be a non-issue. Hopefully that happens sooner rather than later this weekend.

 

[NukeDogg]

Strikeout is 1 out. We get 27 a game. There is no difference in a strikeout and a pop up. But we don’t track pop ups. Also can’t hit into a double play when you strikeout….

i would separate them. Have a good hitter in between them…. But we have 2 of the top 20
Power guys in the league…. Unless we start getting the tip top recruits, going to have to take some bad with the good

I get what you're saying, but it's magnified when the guys continue to K with runners on base when a fly ball or a grounder could move the runners over or bring in a runner from 3rd. Yeah an out is an out but K's are unproductive outs 100% of the time.

 

[HuntDawg]

I get what you're saying, but it's magnified when the guys continue to K with runners on base when a fly ball or a grounder could move the runners over or bring in a runner from 3rd. Yeah an out is an out but K's are unproductive outs 100% of the time.

But we act like choking up and putting the ball in play is easy to do. It’s not. Sure it gets magnified when they are going bad… but again they were still striking out when Jordan was hot in the early part of the year. Hines struck out a time or two the vandy series… but did we want either worried about striking out? Or did we want them to be who they are and take the results?

these are two of the best power hitters in the conference…. Strikeout sucks…. But again with the bad comes the good. And power hitters striking out is more the norm than the exception… you can’t ask a zebra to change his stripes

 

[The Cooterpoot]

I get what you're saying, but it's magnified when the guys continue to K with runners on base when a fly ball or a grounder could move the runners over or bring in a runner from 3rd. Yeah an out is an out but K's are unproductive outs 100% of the time.

Unless it's a dropped K

 

[HuntDawg]

I get what you're saying, but it's magnified when the guys continue to K with runners on base when a fly ball or a grounder could move the runners over or bring in a runner from 3rd. Yeah an out is an out but K's are unproductive outs 100% of the time.

Also while we are at it… the whole productive out thing some people need to look into. There are very few “productive” outs in the course of a game….

and one could argue that a 12 pitch strikeout is actually more productive than weak contact resulting in an out on the 1st or 2nd pitch… and it’s definitely better than a double play.

too many people worried about striking out. A guy that goes 1 for 4 with a 2 run homer and 3k…. Is way more productive than a guy that goes 1 for 3, with a sac fly, and 0k. But one guy is hitting 333 with 0 strike outs the other is hitting 250 with 3 strikeouts… it’s amazing how many people love one and despise the other

 

[Msuirondawgs]

I get what you're saying, but it's magnified when the guys continue to K with runners on base when a fly ball or a grounder could move the runners over or bring in a runner from 3rd. Yeah an out is an out but K's are unproductive outs 100% of the time.

So true. I can't count how many times just a sac fly from one of these guys would have "contributed" something w RISP... I would love to see our stats over the past month even, with RISP. Im guessing its in the low .200s

 

[patdog]

But we act like choking up and putting the ball in play is easy to do. It’s not. Sure it gets magnified when they are going bad… but again they were still striking out when Jordan was hot in the early part of the year. Hines struck out a time or two the vandy series… but did we want either worried about striking out? Or did we want them to be who they are and take the results?

these are two of the best power hitters in the conference…. Strikeout sucks…. But again with the bad comes the good. And power hitters striking out is more the norm than the exception… you can’t ask a zebra to change his stripes

Problem is Jordan and Hines are #2 and #4 in strikeouts, but only #19 and #65 in slugging percentage.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

But we act like choking up and putting the ball in play is easy to do. It’s not. Sure it gets magnified when they are going bad… but again they were still striking out when Jordan was hot in the early part of the year. Hines struck out a time or two the vandy series… but did we want either worried about striking out? Or did we want them to be who they are and take the results?

these are two of the best power hitters in the conference…. Strikeout sucks…. But again with the bad comes the good. And power hitters striking out is more the norm than the exception… you can’t ask a zebra to change his stripes

1. Nobody chokes up to put the ball in play anymore.
2. Only one of those two are top 15 RBI guys in the SEC, neither are top 15 HR in the SEC, neither are top 15 in slugging. They aren't good power hitters.
3. Both are top 3 in Ks.
4. There are a ton of good things that can happen with a ball in play, and few bad things.

Neither are doing their jobs well. Both are seeing their draft stock fall.

 

[HuntDawg]

Problem is Jordan and Hines are #2 and #4 in strikeouts, but only #19 and #65 in slugging percentage.

Agree and we all knew Hines numbers would be down when he hit 1 homer in his first 15 games… and they are striking out at a bit higher a rate than even I’d like. I’d like to see them both in the 60s… but again you’re talking about 2 guys in the top 20 in homers in the sec.

we have bigger problems than those two

 

[HuntDawg]

1. Nobody chokes up to put the ball in play anymore.
2. Only one of those two are top 15 RBI guys in the SEC, neither are top 15 HR in the SEC, neither are top 15 in slugging. They aren't good power hitters.
3. Both are top 3 in Ks.
4. There are a ton of good things that can happen with a ball in play, and few bad things.

Neither are doing their jobs well. Both are seeing their draft stock fall.

1. Agree
2. RBIs are a stat that is teammate reliant. We spent the majority of the season with a terrible lead off hitter and as much as people love Mershon he hasn’t been great. Thrown in the fact our 9 spot is the worst hitter in the league… it’s hard to get rbis when people aren’t on base… Tommy white had 100 rbis last season.. he doesn’t have near that many this season. Doesn’t mean he’s not as good or better
3. Both are top 20 in homers. This is with Hines off to a brutual start.
4. K is one out. Baseball doesn’t care about Ks anymore. Only a few old timers on message boards do. It’s like the 15 footer in basketball, people have found there are more efficient ways of doing things. You don’t shoot as high of % with the 3, but they count for more. Same with the homers and Ks
5. Putting the ball in play isn’t the objective. Hard contact is. These guys do that better than most. Which is why both will be drafted and be paid handsomely.

their draft stocks… you can’t be serious. What someone said about a player back in February is like the d1 regional projections in 3 weeks ago. They mean nothing. Jordan will be a 1-2 round guy. Hines 5-7. Being selected that high… shows what a lot here fail to see… both are damn good at their craft, they just happen to be in a slump currently, which happens

 

[OG Goat Holder]

these are two of the best power hitters in the conference

Hahahahahahahaha

I think we all WISH that were true

Would certainly be nice if it came true this weekend and next.

 

[dog99walker]

I still have thoughts on this I will share in a few weeks

I might not be able to sleep til I hear this!!

 

[bully12]

A consistent 270 hitter with no power doesn’t win games.

both are fine. Jordan’s tear early in the season probably saved us a few losses. Hines led the team in homers during sec play. We likely have 3-4 more sec losses without him.

neither of these guys are the issue. Yes they are in a slump now. But we needed guys like Larry and Koehler to be more consistent. We needed a real catcher playing. We needed more out of our DH spot.

they look like they have the weight of the world on their shoulders because up until recently they did. If they didn’t hit, we didn’t win. Hard to be successful when that’s the case.

What rock have you been living under? Neither are "fine"!! Hines is a lost cause because pitchers know exactly how to pitch to him and he absolutely refuses to alter his plate approach. So, he's going to K without making contact 9 out of 10 times. Jordan's HR swing is on display every at bat. He pulls his head off the ball and doesn't use his hips or legs. And both of these guys are exactly the issue because we're effectively batting 7 against the other team's 9, The other 2 in our lineup are virtually automatic outs at the place, especially with RISP.

 

[HuntDawg]

What rock have you been living under? Neither are "fine"!! Hines is a lost cause because pitchers know exactly how to pitch to him and he absolutely refuses to alter his plate approach. So, he's going to K without making contact 9 out of 10 times. Jordan's HR swing is on display every at bat. He pulls his head off the ball and doesn't use his hips or legs. And both of these guys are exactly the issue because we're effectively batting 7 against the other team's 9, The other 2 in our lineup are virtually automatic outs at the place, especially with RISP.

Nice to have a hitting coach on the board….

Since game 15 Hines has been one of our most productive hitters even with this slump.

Jordan is in the top 15 in nearly every offensive category in the sec despite his slump.

both are in slumps. Bad timing for us. But they are very productive hitters and have been their entire careers

again we aren’t here without them. They carried the dead weight of long, the dh, Koehler and Larry for 75 percent of the season

 

[RopeDawg]

Jordan got a hit and 2 RBI his last plate appearance so hopefully that gets him going heading into regional