Talent Attrition

[StateCollege]

Looking back at our recent recruiting classes, it's easy to see how we go in the position we are in with this roster. Below are the top recruits from 2021 and 2022 signing classes. I might be missing a name or two of transfers in, COVID year eligibility still throws me.

2021 Signing Class

1. Sawyer Robertson QB - Transfer
2. John Lewis LB - MSU
3. Teddy Knox WR - Transfer
4. Antonio Harmon WR/TE - MSU
5. Ke'Travion Hargrove RB - Transfer
6. Deonte Anderson DE - MSU
7. Jacobi Moore WR - Transfer
8. Simeon Price RB - Transfer
9. RaRa Thomas WR - Transfer

Transfers in still on roster: None

2022 Signing Class

1. Trevion Williams DT - MSU
2. Marquez Dortch ATH - Transfer
3. Jacarius Clayton DL/TE - MSU
4. Braedyn Locke QB - Transfer
5. Zavion Thomas WR - Transfer
6. Percy Lewis OT - Graduated?
7. Javae Gilmore LB - MSU
8. Khalid Moore WR - MSU
9. Lucas Taylor OT - Transfer

Transfers in still on roster: Hunter Washington, Justin Robinson, Jordan Mosely

There are obviously many reasons for this, most notably the coaching changes. Not really here to assign blame, just informing. But clearly we lose more talent than we have been capable of replacing.

 

[LimaoCabeca]

NIL and the portal are net negatives for schools like State. I wonder if any of the reformers here will admit that?

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I concur, but we've been under leadership that didn't emphasize recruiting/retention/portal, etc. It will be interesting to see what new leadership does. Mike and Dan wanted to play hard nosed football with lesser recruited players who fought and clawed for every inch and they could develop into good, if not great players and it was very successful. If don't know if that model is going to work any longer.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

How many transfer outs besides Dillon Johnson made an impact with their new team

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

The Purse Strings are still controlled by guys and gals who sit high up on the Donation Pole. Abd they are still "GOOD OL BOYS" who still love to hobnob with Larry Templeton when he comes to town. Kind of a "Deep State at State" if you will.

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

How many transfer outs besides Dillon Johnson made an impact with their new team

Well the ones we have on the roster now sure didnt make much of a positive impact, so there is that.

 

[Seinfeld]

While listening to T&L the other day, there was a comment about how this could end up being a solid WR class if we end up getting Stonka back in the boat along with picking up another commitment, and I thought to myself…

Why does it feel like this is around the 8th year in a row that we’ve said that, only for 2-3 out of every class to no longer be on the roster after a couple seasons?

 

[retire the banner]

Leach was a very poor recruiter. This isn’t a secret

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

Leach was a very poor recruiter. This isn’t a secret

Leach was a System recruiter. He wasnt going to even try to bring in guys that couldnt block from wide splits, run square in pass patterns or catch 50 balls minimum out of the backfield or throw 8 to 10 yard passes accurately to guys who can get another 4 to 5 yards after catch.

 

[retire the banner]

Leach was a System recruiter. He wasnt going to even try to bring in guys that couldnt block from wide splits, run square in pass patterns or catch 50 balls minimum out of the backfield or throw 8 to 10 yard passes accurately to guys who can get another 4 to 5 yards after catch.

And it was a very small minded hire. It went against the grain of what Mississippi State can do well (RB’s, OL, and defense). Daniel Hill and his dad (a former MSU player) have said publicly they would never consider MSU if Leach was still here. Now he’s on a visit this weekend. These are the players we need to land if we’re going to have success

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Mike was a great coach. It would have been interesting to see what he would have done in 2023. I think most of us would agree his methodology may not be successful long term in the current SEC.

 

[L4Dawg]

And it was a very small minded hire. It went against the grain of what Mississippi State can do well (RB’s, OL, and defense). Daniel Hill and his dad (a former MSU player) have said publicly they would never consider MSU if Leach was still here. Now he’s on a visit this weekend. These are the players we need to land if we’re going to have success

It was one of the laziest hires we have ever made. What we are going through was the inevitable result of that hire. Now I'm sure it was hoped we could get Leach's usual 10 years or so out of him before we had to go through it. But we didn't.

 

[aTotal360]

What’s funny are all the naive dolts that thought NIL would lead to a net positive for MSU. Newsflash…anything regarding spending money will not benefit us. We rightfully shot our load with the baseball stadium. After that, we are shooting blanks.

 

[retire the banner]

It was one of the laziest hires we have ever made. What we are going through was the inevitable result of that hire. Now I'm sure it was hoped we could get Leach's usual 10 years or so out of him before we had to go through it. But we didn't.

What Cohen did to the football program after all the momentum we had in the 2010s is absolutely criminal

I was pretty outspoken about the Leach hire after it was made. I thought it was a “safe” hire when we needed to keep swinging for the fences. The fact Cohen passed over Sarkisian for Leach still keeps me up at night

 

[retire the banner]

What’s funny are all the naive dolts that thought NIL would lead to a net positive for MSU. Newsflash…anything regarding spending money will not benefit us. We rightfully shot our load with the baseball stadium. After that, we are shooting blanks.

We’re doing pretty well in NIL fundraising currently. We just now got our $ where it needs to be, I’d hold off on saying it’s not going to benefit us until we see what Lebby does with it over the next year. We were fighting against a AD who had no clue what he was doing before we hired Selmon.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

What’s funny are all the naive dolts that thought NIL would lead to a net positive for MSU. Newsflash…anything regarding spending money will not benefit us. We rightfully shot our load with the baseball stadium. After that, we are shooting blanks.

I'm still wait and see. My position is that our position in SEC pecking order doesn't likely change much. Our level of frustration with the player turnstile might make it feel worse, but in reality, I'm looking at where we land at the end of the SEC season. This year was about right for a down year at MSU; not the bottom (despite all the brilliant writers who pick us there YoY), but near the bottom. Our "good" years we are top half, our great years we are top 2. We may, in fact, suffer greatly because of NIL, but I have not seen the W/L data yet to support it.

I do think it has eroded support and give a damn among fans. I love MSU because it's my school. There aren't many players left for whom any school is their school. Means and ends.

ETA: implicit in my comments above was "in the West"

 

[OG Goat Holder]

NIL and the portal are net negatives for schools like State. I wonder if any of the reformers here will admit that?

Certainly seems that way. And yeah, all the left-leaning clowns who have highlighted all the negatives of the sport for years will absolutely not acknowledge the cluster17 we have now.

Another reason why it's so important for us to have a plan for every aspect of the football program, not just go out and try to do what the big schools do.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Mike was a great coach. It would have been interesting to see what he would have done in 2023. I think most of us would agree his methodology may not be successful long term in the current SEC.

Actually, it would have been. That has been proven everywhere he has been.

Look at this thread. @Called3rdstrikedawg called it correctly in post #5. That good ole boy thinking is pervasive with @L4Dawg and @retire the banner. They don't want to change anything. Everything they've posted in this thread is complete horseshlt. I mean the guy's handle says it all, he wants to retire the logo of the most successful time period in MSU sports history. Ludicrous.

Cohen saw all this coming, and thought outside the box. I admit I'm one of the ones who thought we had to run the ball, etc., like the good ole boys, at the time. But Leach proved he could get the players. And something else he proved.......the offense we run doesn't matter. Defense is king at MSU, I'm convinced of this. Mullen knew it, Leach knew it. We just need to be competent on offense.

Then somebody says that we had an AD that didn't value portal? WTF? Leach brought in some great players out of the portal. Bottom line, Leach was too good for our stupid *** fanbase.

I say again, 17 OUR FANBASE

 

[Faustdog]

Looking back at our recent recruiting classes, it's easy to see how we go in the position we are in with this roster. Below are the top recruits from 2021 and 2022 signing classes. I might be missing a name or two of transfers in, COVID year eligibility still throws me.

2021 Signing Class

1. Sawyer Robertson QB - Transfer
2. John Lewis LB - MSU
3. Teddy Knox WR - Transfer
4. Antonio Harmon WR/TE - MSU
5. Ke'Travion Hargrove RB - Transfer
6. Deonte Anderson DE - MSU
7. Jacobi Moore WR - Transfer
8. Simeon Price RB - Transfer
9. RaRa Thomas WR - Transfer

Transfers in still on roster: None

2022 Signing Class

1. Trevion Williams DT - MSU
2. Marquez Dortch ATH - Transfer
3. Jacarius Clayton DL/TE - MSU
4. Braedyn Locke QB - Transfer
5. Zavion Thomas WR - Transfer
6. Percy Lewis OT - Graduated?
7. Javae Gilmore LB - MSU
8. Khalid Moore WR - MSU
9. Lucas Taylor OT - Transfer

Transfers in still on roster: Hunter Washington, Justin Robinson, Jordan Mosely

There are obviously many reasons for this, most notably the coaching changes. Not really here to assign blame, just informing. But clearly we lose more talent than we have been capable of replacing.

We probably would have looked a little different this year with Jarrian Jones and Fabian Lovett as well. Both started at FSU.

 

[retire the banner]

Actually, it would have been. That has been proven everywhere he has been.

Look at this thread. @Called3rdstrikedawg called it correctly in post #5. That good ole boy thinking is pervasive with @L4Dawg and @retire the banner. They don't want to change anything. Everything they've posted in this thread is complete horseshlt. I mean the guy's handle says it all, he wants to retire the logo of the most successful time period in MSU sports history. Ludicrous.

Cohen saw all this coming, and thought outside the box. I admit I'm one of the ones who thought we had to run the ball, etc., like the good ole boys, at the time. But Leach proved he could get the players. And something else he proved.......the offense we run doesn't matter. Defense is king at MSU, I'm convinced of this. Mullen knew it, Leach knew it. We just need to be competent on offense.

Then somebody says that we had an AD that didn't value portal? WTF? Leach brought in some great players out of the portal. Bottom line, Leach was too good for our stupid *** fanbase.

I say again, 17 OUR FANBASE

Leach would’ve had a rough 2023. I don’t think you understand what was going on inside the program at the end of ‘22. All the primary skill players were ready to jump ship - they hated his offense and we were lucky the only player that left was D Johnson. He was a dinosaur on the recruiting trail and it would continued to spiral downward the longer he was leading the program. Players like Trey Benson, Fabian Lovett(transferred bc of Leach) and Dante Dowdell are essential to getting if we want MSU to be successful. These are just a few of the many examples of players.

We have to make MSU a desirable place to be for MS talent. Leach was deterring kids from coming here due to his offense and personality. He was a minor reason why you’re seeing local kids like Kahnen Daniels not look our way. It’s irresponsible to suggest Leach was the right hire. You know nothing about what you’re saying you just feel a certain way without any knowledge.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Leach would’ve had a rough 2023. I don’t think you understand what was going on inside the program at the end of ‘22. All the primary skill players were ready to jump ship - they hated his offense and we were lucky the only player that left was D Johnson. He was a dinosaur on the recruiting trail and it would continued to spiral downward the longer he was leading the program. Players like Trey Benson, Fabian Lovett(transferred bc of Leach) and Dante Dowdell are essential to getting if we want MSU to be successful. These are just a few of the many examples of players.

We have to make MSU a desirable place to be for MS talent. Leach was deterring kids from coming here due to his offense and personality. He was a minor reason why you’re seeing local kids like Kahnen Daniels not look our way. It’s irresponsible to suggest Leach was the right hire. You know nothing about what you’re saying you just feel a certain way without any knowledge.

Leach's offense was not a deterrent to MSU recrootin. Your just and idiot. Our offense was much better this season, wasn't it? With all your blowhard RuN dA bAwL bros in charge.

There is no way to convince our hardcore morons. That is why Cohen left, he knew he had done all he could do. Many forward thinkers feel this way, and just have to vacate the premises because morons like you outnumber them.

We have no plan at all right now. Rockstar press conferences, &tate, give to NIL. WTF? Youth movement, I mean what are we even trying to do? Hiring best friends, blah blah blah. But at the core we just want to keep doing what we've always done, which has netted us one of the worst football programs in the SEC historically. We have learned nothing.

 

[retire the banner]

Leach's offense was not a deterrent to MSU recrootin. Your just and idiot. Our offense was much better this season, wasn't it? With all your blowhard RuN dA bAwL bros in charge.

There is no way to convince our hardcore morons. That is why Cohen left, he knew he had done all he could do. Many forward thinkers feel this way, and just have to vacate the premises because morons like you outnumber them.

We have no plan at all right now. Rockstar press conferences, &tate, give to NIL. WTF? Youth movement, I mean what are we even trying to do? Hiring best friends, blah blah blah. But at the core we just want to keep doing what we've always done, which has netted us one of the worst football programs in the SEC historically. We have learned nothing.

Again, you’re just emotional and not speaking with any facts of what is happening or has happened within our program the last several years. MS kids did not want to play for Leach. Not sure why you think his offense was working to begin with, it wasn’t.

Lebby seems to grasp what it will take to be successful, will he execute on it? I guess we’ll have to find out, but having one of the largest NIL funds in the country will help. It all starts with landing a QB.

 

[patdog]

Mike was a great coach. It would have been interesting to see what he would have done in 2023. I think most of us would agree his methodology may not be successful long term in the current SEC.

He’d probably have win 7, thanks to the easy schedule. But this roster was just very limited no matter who the coach was.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Again, you’re just emotional and not speaking with any facts of what is happening or has happened within our program the last several years. MS kids did not want to play for Leach. Not sure why you think his offense was working to begin with, it wasn’t.

Lebby seems to grasp what it will take to be successful, will he execute on it? I guess we’ll have to find out, but having one of the largest NIL funds in the country will help. It all starts with landing a QB.

Our recrootin classes were ranked just fine with Leach in charge, and would have gotten better over time due to his name cache. I didn't see any problem with our tailback recrootin, plenty of talent there.

As soon as we got the MS bros in charge this year, recrootin plummeted.

 

[Ibdancin]

NIL and the portal are net negatives for schools like State. I wonder if any of the reformers here will admit that?

Does not have to be.

 

[retire the banner]

Our recrootin classes were ranked just fine with Leach in charge, and would have gotten better over time due to his name cache. I didn't see any problem with our tailback recrootin, plenty of talent there.

As soon as we got the MS bros in charge this year, recrootin plummeted.

I don’t see anyone here who thinks Arnett and his staff were the right guys to lead this program. Not sure why you keep referencing that tenure, it was a mess.

If you think Leach was a good recruiter then I’ve got nothing for you. It never was a strength of his.

 

[85Bears]

He’d probably have win 7, thanks to the easy schedule. But this roster was just very limited no matter who the coach was.

Lol

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don’t see anyone here who thinks Arnett and his staff were the right guys to lead this program. Not sure why you keep referencing that tenure, it was a mess.

We were in fine shape up until Leach died. I don't understand why you think things were bad. Nothing you posted in regards to that was true. DJ left, RaRa left. It happens. Maybe others would have left. It happens. Leach would have replaced them. Some things were frustrating, it happens. Things got frustrating at times during Mullen, and your ilk tried to oust him too.

 

[85Bears]

Leach would’ve had a rough 2023. I don’t think you understand what was going on inside the program at the end of ‘22. All the primary skill players were ready to jump ship - they hated his offense and we were lucky the only player that left was D Johnson. He was a dinosaur on the recruiting trail and it would continued to spiral downward the longer he was leading the program. Players like Trey Benson, Fabian Lovett(transferred bc of Leach) and Dante Dowdell are essential to getting if we want MSU to be successful. These are just a few of the many examples of players.

We have to make MSU a desirable place to be for MS talent. Leach was deterring kids from coming here due to his offense and personality. He was a minor reason why you’re seeing local kids like Kahnen Daniels not look our way. It’s irresponsible to suggest Leach was the right hire. You know nothing about what you’re saying you just feel a certain way without any knowledge.

Hilarious

Matt Luke would have won 8 games with this schedule. What a load of steaming BS. EZ11 crew spewing more nonsense. Lmao

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Lol

@patdog is just one of those guys who thinks we were low on talent. You won't change his mind. But he's not an idiot spewing dumb garbage like @retire the banner

I will say this....without 6th year seniors, we would have been 'lower' on talent. But that applies to the whole country.

 

[85Bears]

This would have been a really good veteran team with Leach and a very easy schedule. Tamu with third string qb, Arkansas was horrible, he would have beat ole miss...we didn’t have a coach and it was fairly close, he beats auburn. What a freaking joke.

Don’t forget banner was telling everyone at the beginning of the year how great Arnett was, lmao

 

[patdog]

@patdog is just one of those guys who thinks we were low on talent. You won't change his mind. But he's not an idiot spewing dumb garbage like @retire the banner

I will say this....without 6th year seniors, we would have been 'lower' on talent. But that applies to the whole country.

Pretty sure NFL scouts agree with me on this. Also, I posted a link to 247 roster talent evaluation preseason. It predicted a 5-7 record.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

He’d probably have win 7, thanks to the easy schedule. But this roster was just very limited no matter who the coach was.

IDK, I think he'd had a real shot at 9.

 

[85Bears]

Pretty sure NFL scouts agree with me on this. Also, I posted a link to 247 roster talent evaluation preseason. It predicted a 5-7 record.

Link to nfl scouts saying leach couldn’t win 7 games when he returned 15 starters off a 9 win team

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I concur, but we've been under leadership that didn't emphasize recruiting/retention/portal, etc. It will be interesting to see what new leadership does. Mike and Dan wanted to play hard nosed football with lesser recruited players who fought and clawed for every inch and they could develop into good, if not great players and it was very successful. If don't know if that model is going to work any longer.

That's the script for us. It's still funny to me that ya'll want to try and compete with what the blue bloods do well. We HAVE to develop. The key is finding those right kids and the best way to distribute our NIL.

 

[retire the banner]

Hilarious

Matt Luke would have won 8 games with this schedule. What a load of steaming BS. EZ11 crew spewing more nonsense. Lmao

7 wins probably at best with Leach. It would’ve been tough sledding this year without Marks, Tulu, and Zavion which would’ve been the case if Leach was around for 2023.

 

[patdog]

Link to nfl scouts saying leach couldn’t win 7 games when he returned 15 starters off a 9 win team

Link to NFL Draft projections showing all our talent. BTW, I literally said Leach would have won 7 games in this thread.

 

[85Bears]

7 wins probably at best with Leach. It would’ve been tough sledding this year without Marks, Tulu, and Zavion which would’ve been the case if Leach was around for 2023.

Oh yea sure, LOL

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

That's the script for us. It's still funny to me that ya'll want to try and compete with what the blue bloods do well. We HAVE to develop. The key is finding those right kids and the best way to distribute our NIL.

That worked great. My concern is now if you find the rough 2/3 star in Yazoo County and develop him, he's going to be gone to the highest bidder within three years. Under Mulllen, the first year was developing the player and getting him PT, the next year was fine tuning the player, the third year the player balled out then left for the NFL. Now we wouldn't get that 3rd year and if we can pay to keep him, it'd take a large proportion of the our NIL funds. We may keep that first round D lineman talent, but would it cost us four average O linemen? All this is above my head, hopefully Levy is very in-tuned to this and has a plan/system that will work for us.

 

[Seinfeld]

What Cohen did to the football program after all the momentum we had in the 2010s is absolutely criminal

I was pretty outspoken about the Leach hire after it was made. I thought it was a “safe” hire when we needed to keep swinging for the fences. The fact Cohen passed over Sarkisian for Leach still keeps me up at night

And it goes beyond just the team and coaches. I don’t blame anyone for not liking NIL, but as an AD of a ln SEC program, I’m sure gonna blame your *** for a complete refusal to accept it. We had no time to waste, but he willfully burned 2 years on our behalf