Tanner Allen speaks on travel ball...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
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Football is through the school so it's right after school. It's a combined 5th and 6th grade team. It's either a 5 or 6 game schedule that is over by the end of September.
Beyond true. I remember my team recruiting JT Ginn to play with us in a tourney in Orlando when I was 12 or so. We were low AAA (not sure it's still like that) and I think he won the tourney for us single-handedly.
Not travel ball, but high school, per NCAA site:
Regarding travel ball, I think it’s a money maker for some, confidence maker for parents. I agree with Tanner Allen.
Regarding travel ball, I think it’s a money maker for some, confidence maker for parents. I agree with Tanner Allen.
To me it's not a yes/no issue as you can tell just by reading this thread there are so many reasons to play "travel" ball besides thinking little Johnny is going to go pro. We started out of necessity. 3 kids(including my son) on our 8u rec team really enjoyed playing together. Not to mention they were pretty much the only 3 that could catch each other's throws without the ball popping the other kids in the face. In order to keep them together we couldn't play rec ball because they only allowed 2 kids to stay on the team for the next year.....and so it began.
We created a buddy "select" team from different rec teams where the kids wanted to play together. In full transparency they were all pretty much rec all star level. We were lucky that our HC was also a very experienced and good high school coach. We didn't recruit, we didn't cut, everybody hit, everybody pitched, we charged for uniforms and tourney fees that's it. We collaborated with the parents on our tournament schedules including the big ones. The kids had a blast, we had a blast but it did take over a lot of our time especially if you helped coach. Ultimately, we went from utrip AA to Major in a fall and spring season....jacked us up on one of the many Gulf Shores WS tournaments. The funny thing about it was we probably had 2-3 players that could make another major team but we still beat those teams routinely except the elite like Dallas Tigers or Patriots, etc. We'd hang with them and occasionally beat them but we didn't have the horses. We stayed Major and mostly intact for 4 years routinely getting to the finals. It was hard not to get caught up in the rankings and all the other stuff that distracts from the main thing.
These kids are now in college, military and the workforce but 80% of them still hang out and keep in touch with each other. There are many ways to do the select travel ball thing and not all of them align with what's best for your kid. If your kid is not an absolute stud then finding a team/coach/org that cares more about the team/players development than just winning a game that will mean nothing in a year is probably going to yield the best experience.....but good luck with that.
We created a buddy "select" team from different rec teams where the kids wanted to play together. In full transparency they were all pretty much rec all star level. We were lucky that our HC was also a very experienced and good high school coach. We didn't recruit, we didn't cut, everybody hit, everybody pitched, we charged for uniforms and tourney fees that's it. We collaborated with the parents on our tournament schedules including the big ones. The kids had a blast, we had a blast but it did take over a lot of our time especially if you helped coach. Ultimately, we went from utrip AA to Major in a fall and spring season....jacked us up on one of the many Gulf Shores WS tournaments. The funny thing about it was we probably had 2-3 players that could make another major team but we still beat those teams routinely except the elite like Dallas Tigers or Patriots, etc. We'd hang with them and occasionally beat them but we didn't have the horses. We stayed Major and mostly intact for 4 years routinely getting to the finals. It was hard not to get caught up in the rankings and all the other stuff that distracts from the main thing.
These kids are now in college, military and the workforce but 80% of them still hang out and keep in touch with each other. There are many ways to do the select travel ball thing and not all of them align with what's best for your kid. If your kid is not an absolute stud then finding a team/coach/org that cares more about the team/players development than just winning a game that will mean nothing in a year is probably going to yield the best experience.....but good luck with that.
The problem is that high school coaches are lazy. Particularly the ones at the bigger programs. They build relationships with travel programs and way too often a kid's chances of making their high school team are going to depend on who they played travel ball for. That is pretty commonplace, too....it's not isolated. So kids playing rec ball are at a disadvantage, not because they aren't skilled or don't have ability, but because they aren't part of a program. It sucks, but it's the reality on the ground. This is also why you see small private school programs like Magnolia Heights in Senatobia win state championship after state championship - those teams are loaded full of players whose parents moved them to that school to play baseball because they couldn't make the team at Desoto Central or Lewisburg.
I agree with the general sentiment that raising kids is a lot easier until you have them yourself…
When my kids were younger, rec was dead because anyone could start a travel ball team and parents were not content telling little Johnny that he didn’t make the cut for the team. So basically all the kids that were rec quality players were still on a travel ball team.
Nothing is more important than baseball, priority #1 for any family... No church when you travel, nothing but baseball. Church is optional. Travel ball is not. It is where all your time, talent and treasure must go. Thousands of dollars, who cares, you are on this train and we rolling all the way no matter the cost. Teach your children well. You are either all in or you are nothing but a rec ball loser parent that failed to provide a path for your child to be the high school stud boss that makes the high school team. Moderation is for the weak. Putting church above baseball is for the choir boys. One day he will thank you for sacrificing everything for him to live out your dream through him in travel ball.
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May he have a coach teach him to hit by exclaiming “what kind of hit was that? We ain’t out here to bump titties!”
I coached Rec / Park ball for 13 years about 25 years ago. Now days my Grandkids play travel ball in multiple sports. Having seen both sides of it, it is obvious how much things have changed in the last 25 years. Back then Park ball was a fun, safe activity for the whole family and the players had the opportunity to play at a pretty high level. Now days park ball can only be described as a high risk activity and the quality of the game is less than horrible. If kids are to participate in sports, parents don’t have much choice. Now it may not be like this everywhere, but around here we don’t feel safe just driving through the local park. Three years ago there was a gun battle in the park while little league games were in process. Thankfully none of the players were hit. Other than the travel and weekend games, travel ball feels a lot like park ball felt 25 years ago.
The league I am in right now just started a program in which they offer a league of Friday night double headers. To be eligible for all stars in LL you have to have 8 games played in the spring season. This double headers league has no practices and only games. It was specifically designed to attract select ball talent into the pool of all stars so the all star teams get better and you can have a higher chance of getting to Williamsport. All you gotta do is make 8 of those games and you can be eligible for the all star teams.
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Most of these kids would be better served in life if their parents put that money in a CD until the kids turns 21, but the parents don’t have much more foresight than their 12 year old.
That could be said about anything. Vacations, enjoying a meal with your family at a restaurant, etc…. But I’m sure most would agree enjoying time with your family and watching them do something they enjoy is worth spending some money.
I laugh seeing all these opinions but eventually all the kids end up in travel ball. THAT is the issue.
I choose both… I got credit cards****
Same experience. I know what you are talking about because I live in the same town. Rec league was abysmal. My youngest could care less about baseball but coach pitch was better now than when my oldest was playing rec coach pitch. My oldest never played rec league baseball but when we would go watch it the skill and talent level overall was shockingly different. It wasn't like that when I was a kid.
For me it is like this:
1. There are now options. When I was young there was rec and nothing. Then when I got older, some American Legion if you were serious. I was not. I missed years of sports from a catastrophic accident and was grossly behind in all sports at a critical age.
2. It is kid dependent. Some like to play all of the time. No biggie.
3. When my kid that played travel was playing at a young age, the travel wasn't that big of a deal. It wasn't far away. There's noting that big of a deal going to Louisville or Oxford or Winona if you live in Starkville. That kind of travel is what rec leagues used to be.
4. Doing showcase or prep league type travel ball is pretty ridiculous for 99% of kids under 12.
Knowing Tanner, and I do, he is most likely referring to point 4.
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Exactly how I view it. The kids that travel to play coach pitch and little league do so because they like it and their families like to watch them have fun and progress. I never felt burdened. I'd take that over any stupid CD or mutual fund ******** talk.
There is plenty of time to make money and there are many many better ways to make it than referenced in the post we are replying to. Hanging with family and watching them do something they have fun at is priceless. And they learn life lessons that no CD would ever teach them. 99% would take that CD at 21 and blow it on dumb **** because 99% of 21 year olds lack any level of maturity to deal with money.
It's not an issue because the "normal, average" travel is the same as what rec used to be.......when you were a kid. It's playing towns around you typically. It's ridiculous when 9-10 year olds are going to Hoover, Florida, etc. to play coach pitch and early little league travel, not when they go 30-50 miles away to play in a tournament with like-minded and similar skill set kids.
I choose both. Im In Orlando right now for AAU volleyball. Went to a theme park with teammates and parents. Watched some ball. Hung out at the pool with teammates and parents. Watched more ball. It's been a good week.
Suck it TA.
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That's what most of it is, although most teams get together and do a Gatlinburg or beach trip. All travel ball is, is more games, thus more money is needed. And parents love the entertainment from the win-or-go-home tournaments.
I think a bigger issue people don't talk about is that the tournament format teaches a more transactional relationship with the sport. Each tournament is its own deal, instead of playing a season and earning a spot in a tournament, etc.
And no one plays baseball the way these tournaments are organized. Up to 6 games in 2 days. Let's go!!!
But mostly it's not spending more time with the family, at least before they are jr. high age. It's spending more time in a car together, which there is something to be said for that if you actually talk during the ride and don't let them just pass the time on a screen of some sort. If they watched their kid play locally, they would still get the benefit of spending time with them and watching them do something they enjoy, they would just also have more weekends free to fish, hunt, go to the beach, ski, golf, swim, etc.
I get why people do it. Rec league talent is terrible most places and it can make it hard to enjoy, particularly for baseball. But travel at the expense of rec is a rotten deal for most families doing it and it's mostly driven by fear/guilt of having their child miss out if they don't do it. Hell, if just the people living paycheck to paycheck but dropping money to go to a dozen baseball tournaments a year would realize that's crazy and come back to rec, that would probably make the rec league talent good enough for most people. If everybody not saving at least 15% of their income came back to rec it might look like it did for us growing up. And it wouldn't really hurt anybody. Basically nobody at age 9 is so dominant an athlete that they can't develop playing with a general sample of the population, or by doing rec plus some travel. Most of the 9 year olds that are dominant are just early developers anyway, not players that have parents with D1 level athleticism that their kids are likely to have also.
Once they are in Jr. High and their weekends won't necessarily be spent with you anyway, and they have a better idea of what kind of athlete they are and what their interests are, go full tilt into whatever their interests are. But you don't need to travel an hour and a half on the weekend to pitch to our own kid in 8U coach pitch so that little johnny doesn't get left behind.
I mean, it's pretty ridiculous also for 9-10 year olds to spend 10 weekends a year traveling just to play the exact same talent level that they would see in a functional rec league. That's fun for a weekend or two, but otherwise it's just a net loss for everybody. AGain, I get why people do it. It's a collective action problem. But the fact that any individual doing it is not acting ridiculous doesn't mean that it's not ridiculous overall.
That's all for the money. Parents and those pesky workdays.
That's also why the fall season started. It's because it's too hot to play all day Saturday and Sunday during the summer. Not at all about development, but that's all you will hear when your travel coach is trying to sell you on playing fall ball.
To answer your question about football and baseball - from what I have found - the older the kids get - the less fall baseball occurs. I think our team is even going to reduce practice and tournaments as this will be the first year of real football. Our neighbor's son plays in the age group above (12U - going into 6th) and they are only playing 1 tournament in the fall because their team has a lot of football players. They are a really good team that is part of an organization in the Jackson Metro.
we are deeply invested in travel ball....play tonight actually....14U.....i have learned a TON since we started playing 7U travel ball, and almost everything mentioned in this thread has merit.....thankfully they moved golf to a fall sport, so mine son has two sports now....one of the main things I have learned I wish we would have done earlier, is ZERO fall baseball.....my 14 son is 6 ft 215lbs and will primarily pitch in HS.....ran into some arm problems this past fall....we are past it now, but after next week, there will be no more fall baseball for us...just working out and golf....
One other thing I learned, is a new-to-travel-ball-dad can be unbearable to be around ........but NOTHING will ever top a competition cheer mom.....NOTHING.....so glad im done with that .....
One other thing I learned, is a new-to-travel-ball-dad can be unbearable to be around ........but NOTHING will ever top a competition cheer mom.....NOTHING.....so glad im done with that .....
This. It's very transactional. Great word to describe it.
There's just nothing like a season. You can develop between games at practice. You don't need 11 of 12 players on the roster to pitch. When you get to an EOS tournament it's about the players on the field, not how willing the the coach is to overuse pitchers or how deft he is at managing pitch counts.
And the kids actually feel real pressure during a season. Having done both, my kid was about to puke closing out the EOS championship game last month because he was so nervous. On a win or go home tournament game the other day, he was in the same position and was about to puke because he was so hot from being at the fields all day. There were zero nerves because it felt transactional, not the weight of an entire season. And I believe handling pressure, is a critical tool we all take from sports to the real world.
The tournaments just feel fake. So much play in a short period of time makes it a different sport in ways. It's just so goofy to watch a kid that's dealing get pulled in a 1-2 count because he's at 40 pitches and they need him for tomorrow. Which by the way is to much for a 12 or under kid to pitch in back to back days.
Have a good 12-15 game spring season and maybe play an extra 3-5 games in an EOS championship tournament. Add in an early summer local tournament or 2 and 1 travel tournament. The kids will have played 30-35 games from March through June with a few free weekends scattered in throughout. Plenty of development and some competition. That's plenty for 12u IMO.
If they really want to go all in, maybe a short fall season. But I'd rather see them take a good month off in July/August. Go play another sport in the fall and go develop at baseball on the side with a throwing or hitting program 2-3 days a week and then shut down the arm for at least 3 consecutive months in the winter.
This schedule is a just way to much for 9-12u...
Emotional, self-important wine moms with money in the bank and nothing else to do, and arbitrary, subjective judges? What could go wrong?
I understand the argument you're trying to make but it depends on the program and the level of ball being played. There are many tournaments that teams have to earn their way into and can't just sign up for. If a program treats a season like a journey with goals and a destination, that's different than a program that's just putting their teams in random tournaments and treating each one like its own thing. There are many many examples of both.
It is about the collective action. It got set in action before I had kids and it's impossible to go back. Many play both though and the overall skill distribution isn't the same. It's not really athletic talent, it's skill developed. The travel kids have higher skill development as to be expected, however, there are MANY who are very skilled who get passed by as the bigger athletes gain skill and lose some baby fat over time or other kids get into it and practice.
Yeah, I agree with this. IT is RIDICULOUS how parents and coaches will strive to win and this doesn't change with some at 15-16 years old.
It's perplexing.
These tournaments are PAID SCRIMMAGES. They mean nothing until the kid is 15-16 years old and wants to play post high school.
Basically, you pay to play organized scrimmages in lieu of what we did as kids when we had freetime, which was scrimmage at a field with local kids.
Tanner isn't wrong IF there's a good rec league where you live. If there's not one, well, travel is about it- In rural MS, good luck! I'd say travel is worthless before the pitching age hits, coach pitch stuff is a joke. Just take them to a good trainer in their early years and build a strong base (hitting/pitching/fielding). 10/12 year old travel is the earliest.
I have something that can top it - Baseball mom.
I still say the ideal format for tournament-caliber baseball teams in metro areas with lots of teams would be similar to college and high school district schedules. A series of 3 games with a team with actual pitch count limitations. Would make teams develop pitchers instead of burning out the 2-3 highest performers and coaches would have to actually strategize how to use them. Would also provide an entry level look at how the game will be played when the kids get older. Of course field availability becomes an issue with that, not to mention it would require a good bit of admin and planning to make it work.
My oldest is going into 6th as well. He started playing tackle football in 3rd grade, which is probably too early, but it's all we had. I wouldn't want my kids playing any other sport during tackle football. They're going to get nicked up and beat up at times, just like middle school and high school. They'll need time to recover. 2 -3 hours a day of tackle football practice after school will wipe them out. I just don't see anyway of playing both.
We're actually going the other way with him in football this year. Playing flag to focus on speed, agility, and quickness since we finally have that option. Maybe time for a little baseball practice/development on the side too. Once they get to 7th grade there is no fall baseball and football option. Football practice is M-Fr 3:30-6:30 and games on Saturdays. I mean you could play Sunday I guess, but that just seems inhumane.
They practice for 3 hours??!! Does that include conditioning or that actual on-field practice time?
Looks like it's only 2:45 this year. *** Not much weight lifting in 7th grade, but I imagine the 2:45 is for 30 minutes of warm-ups and then practice.
Hell, we had 5:30-7:30 practice for 3rd, 4th and 5th graders 4 days a week. Sunday and Fridays off before Saturday games. Tackle football is all consuming. The flag league I am looking at for this fall is like 3-4 hours a week.. Might join 2.
There's so many travel ball organizations now that you can find one that suits your level of commitment. My nephew plays for one out of Madison/Ridgeland area and they play all their tournaments within the metro area, just rotating between Brandon/Ridgeland/Madison/etc. They do one out of town (Southaven) tournament per season. They never play back to back weekends. They encourage kids to play other sports, so if Johnny has soccer that weekend he's told to go do that and he's not allowed to play any baseball that week. For the couple of kids that live and breathe baseball and want to play every single weekend, they get reclassified to a higher level team that does more.
Not saying that it's the perfect way to do it, just that "travel ball" doesn't automatically imply that you're spending every single weekend 5 hours from home, burning $ at hotels and eating out.
Not saying that it's the perfect way to do it, just that "travel ball" doesn't automatically imply that you're spending every single weekend 5 hours from home, burning $ at hotels and eating out.