Tate Reeves calling a special session…

[OG Goat Holder]

I was just responding to Mr. Cook's comment about it being another potential "false start". Neither the Nissan Plant, nor Airbus, nor the Toyota Plant, nor Continental Tire Plant, nor Steel Dynamics, etc. etc. moved Mississippi from the bottom of most categories. That doesn't mean they haven't been and won't continue to be really good for the State. It just takes a lot to move the needle on the whole if that's what you're expecting which I took Mr. Cook's comments to be getting at. But these projects can still be a huge blessing to the thousand or so workers that get direct jobs plus the workers that get jobs indirectly funded by this, or even those that just get slightly higher wages b/c of more competition for workers.

There's no question that MS' recruitment of industries does need to be consolidated into a few areas primarily, to help turn the one win into two and four and twelve or whatever, building upon itself. That said, I don't pretend to know where those places need to be, but obviously Jackson and the Golden Triangle stand out as the best options.

Probably impossible, because everyone is working for their own small town or county. So, Sip gonna Sip, and we will continue to be spread out. I'd just like to see our resources being used on areas that will 95% benefit MS in every way. Whereas this development, like others have mentioned, will have a good portion of the benefit siphoned off by Memphis, Collierville, etc. Maybe not the lower paid people, but no question that the ones making 100K plus who may be relocating here from elsewhere, will choose to live in TN (edited out the incorrect state tax stuff).

Whereas if we landed something in Jackson, all the benefit stays there in the Metro and surrounding MS towns.

 

[leeinator]

There's no question that MS' recruitment of industries does need to be consolidated into a few areas primarily, to help turn the one win into two and four and twelve or whatever, building upon itself. That said, I don't pretend to know where those places need to be, but obviously Jackson and the Golden Triangle stand out as the best options.

Probably impossible, because everyone is working for their own small town or county. So, Sip gonna Sip, and we will continue to be spread out. I'd just like to see our resources being used on areas that will 95% benefit MS in every way. Whereas this development, like others have mentioned, will have a good portion of the benefit siphoned off by Memphis, Collierville, etc. Maybe not the lower paid people, but no question that the ones making 100K plus who may be relocating here from elsewhere, will choose to live in TN and commute due to the lack-of-state tax. And I guess you could say the same about Golden Triangle jobs going to AL people, but at least they also have a state tax, so people aren't INCENTIVIZED to live in AL, like they would be in TN.

Whereas if we landed something in Jackson, all the benefit stays there in the Metro and surrounding MS towns.

If you work in Mississippi and live in Tennessee or another state, you'll still have to pay a MS income tax.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

If you work in Mississippi and live in Tennessee or another state, you'll still have to pay a MS income tax.

Good point

 

[Darryl Steight]

Sip gonna Sip, and we will continue to be spread out.

All your other points are good, but I just wanted to defend us a little... every state has this issue. Jackson, TN competes with Chattanooga, which competes with Murfreesboro, La Vergne, etc. etc.

Every good Economic Development Director in every town and every county is trying to bring growth to their own little slice of the pie. It's not just a challenge here.

Maybe what you meant though is, the state should select 3 or 4 mega sites and put in all the infrastructure/transportation/utilities around it and help lead industries to those locations. And I agree with that - actually, I think MDA is trying to do that to some degree. I know they've worked with MCEDA on the megasite in Madison County, and I believe they've helped the Hattiesburg ADP recruit to their site down 11. And I can only assume they've worked with Joe Max or whoever in the Golden Triangle. It would make sense to me, besides those three, that they are doing the same in DeSoto County and on the coast.

It might hurt some feelings, but those specific sites probably make more sense than just putting a random plant out by itself in Grenada (Milwaukee) or Clinton (Continental). If those were in the Golden Triangle and Madison County near other huge projects, it seems like the growth could be exponential.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

All your other points are good, but I just wanted to defend us a little... every state has this issue. Jackson, TN competes with Chattanooga, which competes with Murfreesboro, La Vergne, etc. etc.

Every good Economic Development Director in every town and every county is trying to bring growth to their own little slice of the pie. It's not just a challenge here.

Maybe what you meant though is, the state should select 3 or 4 mega sites and put in all the infrastructure/transportation/utilities around it and help lead industries to those locations. And I agree with that - actually, I think MDA is trying to do that to some degree. I know they've worked with MCEDA on the megasite in Madison County, and I believe they've helped the Hattiesburg ADP recruit to their site down 11. And I can only assume they've worked with Joe Max or whoever in the Golden Triangle. It would make sense to me, besides those three, that they are doing the same in DeSoto County and on the coast.

It might hurt some feelings, but those specific sites probably make more sense than just putting a random plant out by itself in Grenada (Milwaukee) or Clinton (Continental). If those were in the Golden Triangle and Madison County near other huge projects, it seems like the growth could be exponential.

TN has a big head start on us, companies want to be there, so I'm sure that competition is fine. Here in the Sip, fighting among the scraps is what we've always done and netted us nothing. And you don't have to defend - at least to me. I've been one of the biggest advocates for a long time. But I have to admit some truths about things.

And yeah, MDA is starting to do it, but it should have been done 20 years ago. Joe Max even said this.

But when it comes to Continental, them just being near the Jackson Metro is fine to me. In my mind, Clinton is Madison, it's all the metro, so Nissan and Continental are in the same place. Maybe not the same industrial park, but still. I mean Nissan has workers from hours away. That little difference in geography doesn't mean much. That's why I say we now need a big project in eastern Rankin County.

I think TateR has the right ideas. He's been pretty good for the state in my opinion.

 

[paindonthurt]

Are they going to pay a use tax? Or a property tax?

They are going to buy gas and food and spend money here. Might even pay some state income taxes.

 

[paindonthurt]

Nah. Corruption and graft.



Not that I like bureaucracy but one thing it does well is because of its slow pace it does a halfway decent job of preventing people and organizations to spend money quickly by going through a process.

One side-effect of that is that it can make corruption and graft less prevalent. Of course I’m not saying that it’s 100 percent successful. Fortunately Shad White and the Department of Audit do a very good job.

You don’t think some bureaucrats are fraudulent or grafting?

Of course they are.

Why do we care what speed private organizations spend their money? It’s none of your business or mine. If they wanna be hasty with it so be it.
Are you talking about government agencies? Ok they shouldn’t be hasty but they shouldn’t move at snails pace either. Both things are possible.

EFFICIENCY AND EFFECTIVENESS are very possible and people all over the world accomplish it daily. And yes there are lots of people who can’t accomplish it. Many of them don’t work for companies where they are held accountable for crappy decisions.

 

[paindonthurt]

Waiting for a perfect answer is indecisive and causes delay. But come up with something good and fine tune it gradually.

This is rarely how government works.

Very rarely.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I'm going to ask around but last I heard a month or two ago is that Amazon was coming and we had to build new stations. I thought the work had already started but the only reason I could see them passing on it was getting breakers in time. Like I said earlier, depending on voltage lead time for breakers is 2-4 years right now. They used to be like 25 weeks before Covid

Wow

 

[Maroon Eagle]

You don’t think some bureaucrats are fraudulent or grafting?

Of course they are.

And I noted that. I wrote about Shad White and the Department of Audit doing a good job in the last sentence of the post that you’ve responded to.

Why do we care what speed private organizations spend their money? It’s none of your business or mine. If they wanna be hasty with it so be it.

Gentlemen and Ladies: We may have just found Brett Favre’s burner SPS account.

 

[Mr. Cook]

You don’t think some bureaucrats are fraudulent or grafting?

Of course they are.

Why do we care what speed private organizations spend their money? It’s none of your business or mine. If they wanna be hasty with it so be it.
Are you talking about government agencies? Ok they shouldn’t be hasty but they shouldn’t move at snails pace either. Both things are possible.

EFFICIENCY AND EFFECTIVENESS are very possible and people all over the world accomplish it daily. And yes there are lots of people who can’t accomplish it. Many of them don’t work for companies where they are held accountable for crappy decisions.

What is your textbook definition of the following terms: “efficiency” and “effectiveness?”

After you’ve completed that task(if you can), identify the KPIs for each for definition.

Hint: The definition of either isn’t “It should do better than it’s doing it now.” That’s a Trump-ism or a Biden-ism which are both rejected with prejudice.

#InBeforeTheLock

 

[paindonthurt]

And I noted that. I wrote about Shad White and the Department of Audit doing a good job in the last sentence of the post that you’ve responded to.



Gentlemen and Ladies: We may have just found Brett Favre’s burner SPS account.

So you want to control when and how fast people spend money bc a few companies do things illegally? They could have done the same thing and spent money slowly

 

[paindonthurt]

What is your textbook definition of the following terms: “efficiency” and “effectiveness?”

After you’ve completed that task(if you can), identify the KPIs for each for definition.

Hint: The definition of either isn’t “It should do better than it’s doing it now.” That’s a Trump-ism or a Biden-ism which are both rejected with prejudice.

#InBeforeTheLock

Example only. If a private company company can build a bridge safely and it works in a year and the gubment takes 1.5 years. That’s not efficient.

government toll road vs private

If the private bridge is safer than the public bridge then it’s more effective.

UPS/Fedex - USPS

Build a government building
Build a private building

If it could be better than it is now (and most things can be even outside of government) then it’s not as efficient as it should be.

 

[GloryDawg]

If you work in Mississippi and live in Tennessee or another state, you'll still have to pay a MS income tax.

I think you still have to pay income tax in the state where you work. The state where you live gives you a tax credit for what you pay in the other state, but Tenn does not have state income tax so it's a moot point. My uncle uses to live in Miss and work in Tenn and ***** about it all the time having to pay state income tax in Miss. I used to tell him to move his happy butt to Tenn.

 

[Boom Boom]

Example only. If a private company company can build a bridge safely and it works in a year and the gubment takes 1.5 years. That’s not efficient.

government toll road vs private

If the private bridge is safer than the public bridge then it’s more effective.

UPS/Fedex - USPS

Build a government building
Build a private building

If it could be better than it is now (and most things can be even outside of government) then it’s not as efficient as it should be.

USPS vs UPS/FedEx is an apples to oranges comparison, because the latter does not deliver to remote, unprofitable locations while the former delivers everywhere.

In general the other comparisons are too, in more subtle ways. Bureaucracy tends to be inefficient, and it is not limited to govt by any means. Give AT&T a call if you need convincing.

Another point, monopolies are not efficient. In general, competition tends to increase efficiency, not private vs public. (And getting competition out of govt can be a challenge, but it can be done.)

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

USPS vs UPS/FedEx is an apples to oranges comparison, because the latter does not deliver to remote, unprofitable locations while the former delivers everywhere.

Believe it or not, UPS and FedEx deliver to my house, but USPS will not....

But your point is well taken, because with all the shìt my wife buys online only to return the next day, our remote location has to be a 17ing gold mine for the carriers. USPS could lower the price of stamps $.05 nationally just because of the fees they would get paid on my wife's returns if they delivered to my house.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Believe it or not, UPS and FedEx deliver to my house, but USPS will not....

But your point is well taken, because with all the shìt my wife buys online only to return the next day, our remote location has to be a 17ing gold mine for the carriers. USPS could lower the price of stamps $.05 nationally just because of the fees they would get paid on my wife's returns if they delivered to my house.

A couple years ago my 80+ year old parents asked me to find a replacement set of a long discontinued board game. There were alternatives that were close to what they wanted and inexpensive but they wanted a specific set.

Amazon had nothing. Etsy and EBay merchants were selling used games for over $200 but I held off… About three months into searching, I found a brick and mortar store in Alaska selling an unused game for $50. USPS shipping to Mississippi was another $23. I had it in my hands less than a week after I ordered it.

Jeff Bezos would be a little envious.

P.S.: What do you do about US mail then, go to the local post office?

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I'm glad you keep reminding us how neutral you are politically. Imagine what you would do to Tate - and God help Trump - if you were actually somewhat left leaning but just wouldn't admit it.

I haven’t done a thing to Tate and I don’t think God would be caught in the same zip code as Trump.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

A couple years ago my 80+ year old parents asked me to find a replacement set of a long discontinued board game. There were alternatives that were close to what they wanted and inexpensive but they wanted a specific set.

Amazon had nothing. Etsy and EBay merchants were selling used games for over $200 but I held off… About three months into searching, I found a brick and mortar store in Alaska selling an unused game for $50. USPS shipping to Mississippi was another $23. I had it in my hands less than a week after I ordered it.

Jeff Bezos would be a little envious.

P.S.: What do you do about US mail then, go to the local post office?

Yes. PO Box. We can't have mailboxes because the snow is too deep in the winter. Mail/freight in the winter in the mountains is an adventure.

A friend of mine just retired from flying a back country mail route. He spent 42 years flying into the back country to remote ranches and ranger stations to deliver mail twice week on a plane with skis instead of wheels in the winter. The USPS no longer has anyone to fly the contract route so they haul everything in via snowmobile or cat during the winter now.

One of the restaurants out in the back country (people snowmobile all over the back country in the winter and 30 miles from the nearest road is an awesome burger joint) meets me at my place in town every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday morning to load up his truck with his delivery from the food distributor and drives out to a parking lot on the outskirts of town, fills up a big sled behind his snowmobile, and hauls it back to his restaurant 30 miles on a snowmobile trail. One of the coolest places you will ever eat and the burgers are top shelf.

 

[mstateglfr]

UPS/Fedex - USPS

I see this referenced a few times a year when someone is just rambling about how much better private for profit companies are and question if the people making the claims understand that what USPS does is fundamentally different from what UPS or FedEx does.

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

I know what the real reason is, but here in SW Mississippi we hardly get a sniff of any economic development project like the one coming to Marshal County. Every county down here has an industrial park with utilities, spec buildings, near I-55, near rail and water, etc. When Nissan came to Canton, my Copiah County expected ancillary industries to locate here. None ever did. They all went north of Jackson.

 

[Darryl Steight]

I haven’t done a thing to Tate and I don’t think God would be caught in the same zip code as Trump.

Yes yes, we know, he's a nazi fascist racist homophobic dictator, and evil personified - I heard about it on the news. But if the choice is between him and having to watch reruns of Weekend at Bernie's for another 4 years, still give me:

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Yes yes, we know, he's a nazi fascist racist homophobic dictator, and evil personified - I heard about it on the news. But if the choice is between him and having to watch reruns of Weekend at Bernie's for another 4 years, still give me:

View attachment 511245

I really like the Weekend at Bernie’s reference here and have used it before when discussing political candidates.

That said, I prefer boring candidates if only because I rarely see much drama from them.

Older candidates who demonstrate anger more can potentially be perceived though as…

Okay. Enough silliness.

 

[Boom Boom]

Yes yes, we know, he's a nazi fascist racist homophobic dictator, and evil personified - I heard about it on the news. But if the choice is between him and having to watch reruns of Weekend at Bernie's for another 4 years, still give me:

View attachment 511245

This really sums up why there's no need to debate politics anymore. You know he's a fascist, but you'll vote for him anyway. What more need be said?

 

[Mr. Cook]

Example only. If a private company company can build a bridge safely and it works in a year and the gubment takes 1.5 years. That’s not efficient.

government toll road vs private

If the private bridge is safer than the public bridge then it’s more effective.

UPS/Fedex - USPS

Build a government building
Build a private building

If it could be better than it is now (and most things can be even outside of government) then it’s not as efficient as it should be.

You haven't answered the original question, but I'll continue using your "examples."

What happens when the "private company" builds the bridge in 6 months (which is less than 1.5 years for the government), but the erected bridge is twice the cost OR collapses in 5 years due to the poor quiality if the intended life of the bridge is intended to be significant longer in life, say 50 years or longer?

Does the speed while sacrificing cost or quality fulfill your definition of "efficiency?"

 

[Mr. Cook]

I really like the Weekend at Bernie’s reference here and have used it before when discussing political candidates.

That said, I prefer boring candidates if only because I rarely see much drama from them.

Older candidates who demonstrate anger more can potentially be perceived though as…

Okay. Enough silliness.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

This really sums up why there's no need to debate politics anymore. You know he's a fascist, but you'll vote for him anyway. What more need be said?

What is the definition of a fascist?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

You haven't answered the original question, but I'll continue using your "examples."

What happens when the "private company" builds the bridge in 6 months (which is less than 1.5 years for the government), but the erected bridge is twice the cost OR collapses in 5 years due to the poor quiality if the intended life of the bridge is intended to be significant longer in life, say 50 years or longer?

Does the speed while sacrificing cost or quality fulfill your definition of "efficiency?"

Here’s an Example of Something Speedily Designed & Constructed by an Engineer who has been known to berate organizations and people who take their time and pay attention to details…

 

[paindonthurt]

USPS vs UPS/FedEx is an apples to oranges comparison, because the latter does not deliver to remote, unprofitable locations while the former delivers everywhere.

In general the other comparisons are too, in more subtle ways. Bureaucracy tends to be inefficient, and it is not limited to govt by any means. Give AT&T a call if you need convincing.

Another point, monopolies are not efficient. In general, competition tends to increase efficiency, not private vs public. (And getting competition out of govt can be a challenge, but it can be done.)

This is my point. Everywhere there isn’t competition it’s generally bc of government regulations creating barriers to entry.

We can have both. Effective regulation without inefficiency but we let politicians and bureaucrats off the hook with zero consequences.

 

[paindonthurt]

A couple years ago my 80+ year old parents asked me to find a replacement set of a long discontinued board game. There were alternatives that were close to what they wanted and inexpensive but they wanted a specific set.

Amazon had nothing. Etsy and EBay merchants were selling used games for over $200 but I held off… About three months into searching, I found a brick and mortar store in Alaska selling an unused game for $50. USPS shipping to Mississippi was another $23. I had it in my hands less than a week after I ordered it.

Jeff Bezos would be a little envious.

P.S.: What do you do about US mail then, go to the local post office?

Is that one little story supposed to tell us how awesome USPS is?

bc it’s not.

 

[paindonthurt]

I see this referenced a few times a year when someone is just rambling about how much better private for profit companies are and question if the people making the claims understand that what USPS does is fundamentally different from what UPS or FedEx does.

Definitely differences but I can assure you they are more efficient than usps.

The two things aren’t really fundamentally different though.

The fundamentals are they are all in the business of delivering things.

 

[paindonthurt]

This really sums up why there's no need to debate politics anymore. You know he's a fascist, but you'll vote for him anyway. What more need be said?

He was joking. Doesn’t surprise me you didn’t see that though.

 

[paindonthurt]

You haven't answered the original question, but I'll continue using your "examples."

What happens when the "private company" builds the bridge in 6 months (which is less than 1.5 years for the government), but the erected bridge is twice the cost OR collapses in 5 years due to the poor quiality if the intended life of the bridge is intended to be significant longer in life, say 50 years or longer?

Does the speed while sacrificing cost or quality fulfill your definition of "efficiency?"

Pretty sure I answered that.
Safely and it works.
Let me be more clear
As safe as and quality is just as good as

Many government projects cost more than non government projects. Even when comparing apples to apples.

I can build a house in the county.
I can build the exact same house in the city for significantly more dollars bc of the government.

THE WXACT HOUSE. Meaning quality and codes and craftsmanship is the same.

 

[paindonthurt]

Here’s an Example of Something Speedily Designed & Constructed by an Engineer who has been known to berate organizations and people who take their time and pay attention to details…

Oh cute. Nice reference and good example of the government being better.

 

[mstateglfr]

Definitely differences but I can assure you they are more efficient than usps.

The two things aren’t really fundamentally different though.

The fundamentals are they are all in the business of delivering things.

Yeah, they are fundamentally different business models and services.

It's like comparing flying commercially with flying private. Both are flying, but that doesn't mean they are the same, or really even similar.

One delivers mail and that is a totally different world from delivering packages.
Also, one is forced to comply with pricing structures that they don't even get to set. Go play basketball with one hand tied behind your back and see how successful you are.



^ this isn't defending usps and it isn't knocking UPS or FedEx. It is simply explaining, again, that they are very different due to services and more.

 

[WilCoDawg]

I haven’t done a thing to Tate and I don’t think God would be caught in the same zip code as Trump.

I’ve always wondered what God you worship because it ain’t the Christian God. The Christian God wants to be around all of His children regardless of how imperfect. But you keep doing the feudalism and tribalism you so gallantly derided not too long ago.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

@paindonthurt and his narrow minded view of things demonstrates why I don't really like hardcore Rankin County type conservatives, and it makes you start thinking you have more in common with some liberals. Then you read stuff like this and realize how deranged they are:

This really sums up why there's no need to debate politics anymore. You know he's a fascist, but you'll vote for him anyway. What more need be said?

Where is the middle ground? Lord have mercy is there one single lib out there that can admit that Trump is not Satan himself? About the only thing in the fascist meaning that can be applied to Trump is that he is in fact a US nationalist. I don't see why that's a bad quality for a president, personally.

 

[Darryl Steight]

This really sums up why there's no need to debate politics anymore. You know he's a fascist, but you'll vote for him anyway. What more need be said?

I guess I really do have to use sarcasterisks with every joke. I thought it was obvious that I think only an imbecile would believe all those things.

That's my fault. I've got to know the audience better.

 

[Boom Boom]

This is my point. Everywhere there isn’t competition it’s generally bc of government regulations creating barriers to entry.

We can have both. Effective regulation without inefficiency but we let politicians and bureaucrats off the hook with zero consequences.

That's, generally, not why there's not competition. The chief barrier to entry in almost all cases is that there's already a provider of a good or service so entering that market will only serve to create competition and limit profit, ie it won't be very profitable for the new entrant even if its currently profitable for the existing provider. If there's a ton of available profit and a low cost of entry, then that can be overcome. Competition is mainly among first entrants.

We do have regulatory problems, but it's bifurcated. We let Big Business have too much influence so they end up lightly regulated (or even use regulation against potential competition), while small business gets hit full bore. Big Business loves to push deregulation, but in practice it's always good regulations that are inconvenient to them that they want cut. Neither Party has an objection to reducing regulation on small business, but neither has an incentive to actually do it.