Teacher's Unions? Where is my thread?
- Thread starter TiogaLion
- Start date
I didn't say she would get a larger salary, however I thought it would be a possibility.
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That’s a narrow POV. I’m not sure what content got the original thread deleted, but I’ll stop there.
Also, see this to better understand the other side of the insurance angle.
Moral hazard - Wikipedia
That guy has been advertising for as long as I can remember.
I know of a few who have left but they are older and tenured (which I’m sure everyone reading this thread knows that’s also very important). Never met one who flat out never joined but it’s not something I ask my new colleagues. I’m sure the union rep for her building will touch base with her in the beginning of the year and introduce themselves regardless. There are a ton of articles/interviews online about this from teachers who left or never joined if you want to go down the google rabbit hole.
@TiogaLion congrats to your daughter. I hope she is enjoying setting up her classroom and I hope she has great colleagues. In our district, first year teachers get a mentor colleague to help with the transition. Usually their other grade level teachers are really helpful too. Some of my colleagues are now my best friends. Enjoy the rest of your summer!
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I doubt this will affect your daughter as she only teaches first grade, but it is something to bear in mind. At my teacher induction many years ago our union president told us there are three areas in which a union will not back you if you are accused of wrongdoing.
1. No car rides to students- If you spot one of your students stranded at the library, shopping center, etc... You can wait with them until someone comes along but under no circumstances should you transport them to their destination. The days of, "Bobby, you need a ride?" Are sadly long gone.
2. No house visits- Years ago one of my colleagues taught junior high and had a select few of his favorite kids over his house to watch movies and pizza one Friday or Saturday night. Well, when he went out into the kitchen to get soda a boy got "handsy" with a girl who in turn told her parents when she got home. The irate parents called the principal and wanted to know what goes on at Mr. So-and-so's house with all those rambunctious kids? Then, the school board got involved and this teacher who meant well sweated out the incident for months. Thankfully, he was cleared but learned a very valuable lesson the hard way about having students over your place. The days of "Welcome Back, Kotter" are no longer.
3. High fives and fist bumps are great! Please be careful and if possible avoid any body contact especially hugs. I know first graders love to be affectionate. However, be mindful that somewhere, someone (A fellow envious teacher, a jerk administrator) is always watching.
Good luck!
1. No car rides to students- If you spot one of your students stranded at the library, shopping center, etc... You can wait with them until someone comes along but under no circumstances should you transport them to their destination. The days of, "Bobby, you need a ride?" Are sadly long gone.
2. No house visits- Years ago one of my colleagues taught junior high and had a select few of his favorite kids over his house to watch movies and pizza one Friday or Saturday night. Well, when he went out into the kitchen to get soda a boy got "handsy" with a girl who in turn told her parents when she got home. The irate parents called the principal and wanted to know what goes on at Mr. So-and-so's house with all those rambunctious kids? Then, the school board got involved and this teacher who meant well sweated out the incident for months. Thankfully, he was cleared but learned a very valuable lesson the hard way about having students over your place. The days of "Welcome Back, Kotter" are no longer.
3. High fives and fist bumps are great! Please be careful and if possible avoid any body contact especially hugs. I know first graders love to be affectionate. However, be mindful that somewhere, someone (A fellow envious teacher, a jerk administrator) is always watching.
Good luck!
I'm an old timer. During my 37 years, I often found myself at odds with Union Leadership. Putting that aside, I'm surprised that the local union would not be the recognized (collective) bargaining unit and as such non members would be required to pay dues (agency) fees anyway.
My advice for a new teacher would be to join the union. Until you establish yourself, you have no one to protect you otherwise. Just my opinion.
I apologize if I am going overboard, but education is my passion. Tioga please remind your daughter about social media. (The union does not cover mishaps on social media.) This is also a major issue that has come to light in recent years. We've had instances around us where younger teachers had posted objectional comments on Facebook and were reprimanded. (Eg- We went to the "wild concert" last weekend and got so bombed we could not find the parking lot afterwards.) There was also a teacher in a nearby district who posted that she was glad there were only six weeks left because she did not want to see any of those "miserable little psychopaths" again! If she has a bad day (and we all do at some point) then, find someone to talk it over with or call someone. Please do not post your emotions because as you well know- You cannot unring a bell once it has been rung. Hope this helps...
Protection is less about being terminated than it is protection from a lawsuit over any confrontation with a student. Any accusation gets investigated, the students are minors, and it costs money to defend. Even video evidence often misses the beginning of a conflict. There has been a distinct shift, especially after the pandemic, in what kids can get away with, and the students know that line has shifted dramatically and are acting out accordingly.
Thanks, she is having a blast setting up her room and talks about it constantly. The union rep is also her mentor, so this is why she was asked the first time they met. It'll be a busy year as she'll also be attending Graduate School on a part time basis. I'm a little worried starting her first "real" teaching assignment and grad school may be a bit too much but she'll either sink or swim.
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Thanks everyone! Lots of good advice and my opinion has been changed based on this discussion. I will tell her that if it were my choice I'd join the union and reevaluate after she has attained tenor, if she stays that long. I hadn't really thought much about parents bringing lawsuits before (lawsuits aren't in my makeup) but you've convinced me that an inexperienced teacher is somewhat likely to make a few mistakes and she should plan to ready for such an occasion.
Just breezed through this quickly. It’s not worth it in Kentucky, in my opinion. The only thing about it that matters to me is the legal protection and I get that otherwise. It would take too much of my salary to be worth it.
Just my .02
Just my .02
Actually it’s the union that is selfish. She acquired the skills and should be free to have a compensation package that suits her needs.
So you have a problem with people who prioritize children’s education, development, and safety?
not at all- just the people who typically want to be on school boards to push agendas- you know, most of themSo you have a problem with people who prioritize children’s education, development, and safety?
Yeah, you can get the legal protection much cheaper. Very little of the union dues actually goes to legal services.
So you have a problem with people who prioritize children’s education, development, and safety?
Parents should never let public schools get in the way of their children's education.
But that’s not really the way it works when you take a job where collective bargaining is in place….It’s kind of the same way with my employer provided health insurance. I can’t call Cigna and have them reduce my premium because I won’t ever use pregnancy services.
I am probably going to screw up this response but I will try my best not to.
The more teachers leaving and retiring means more openings for their positions and less of a chance of someone non-tenured being non-renewed because they will need to fill the positions of the people leaving, not a current employee. Before being tenured you are basically on a probation period and it’s generally much less red tape for admin to non-renew a non-tenured employee’s contract than a tenured one. So, less risk of not making it through the 3 years to earn tenure (I think that’s what it is in PA, it’s 4 in my state) and being told in the spring that they aren’t renewing your contract. Not getting renewed before you get tenure does happen, for a multitude of reasons, some of which come down to things outside of a teachers control.
Certain subject areas like math, science and being certified to teach special Ed are helpful as those are always in demand. When I say we always need teachers dual-certified in special Ed I am not exaggerating. Your daughter knows all of that though I am sure. And good for her for continuing her education. She will be fine and I bet some of her students who aren’t already might become PSU fans by the end of the year!
The shortage of teachers is so severe, especially in PA, that the state government is about to drop a lot of the requirements and open employment up to non-teaching degrees. I'm not exactly sure what that entails, but that comes from talking to a couple of school board members, one in my daughter's school district and one in my sisters. They are desperate.
in other words, you get the same benefits with or without the Union. An added bonus is you might be able to avoid union run retirement plans (and their excessive load costs), can talk directly with your manager about working conditions without a union minder in the room, and aren’t forced to have your wages given to politicians who work against your interests.
You get the union benefits because the union negotiated those benefits. If there was no union, she’s probably not getting as good as a compensation package…..Maybe there’s a study showing teacher compensation/benefits in areas where there’s collective bargaining vs. no collective bargaining. I’d be interested in the comparison.
This is correct. Look at states in the south where some don’t have collective bargaining. Even when you adjust for cost of living the compensation package is well below what we have in the North East. Those without it also are the states with the highest teacher turnover rates.
Yes, many states are experiencing a shortage of teachers, however in the Harrisburg/Lancaster/York area they are not unless you're talking about the inner city schools and a few very low income districts. Most of openings in this area are for "long term" substitutes of which they are told that they would be reevaluated in December for consideration of permanent employee status. The school district my daughter was hired into had three openings at the elementary school level and invited thirteen applicants to a second interview (I'm not sure of the number that were given a first interview). Those thirteen were boiled down to six candidates who were given a third interview. Of those, three were invited to an interview with the Superintendent.
In total, eight new teachers were hired in her school district including all grades and subjects. Of those eight, seven were hired as long term substitutes and only my daughter was hired as a regular employee.
I can give other similar stories at other school districts in this area, all of which don't support a teacher shortage around here. Now, let's talk Texas, Iowa, and many other states where teachers are being offered large sign-on bonuses.
At what point do we see public schools close en masse and the only options for some people are private schools, home schooling, online education, moving, or no school?
I am so glad you posted this. It is not easy to get a full time teaching job in elementary ed in many of the states in the tri state area. PA is actually one of the hardest states to get one in the country. It’s extremely competitive
OT: Daughter who was thinking of joining the teacher's union - On3
About two months ago there was a poster on here who was asking if his daughter should join the teacher's union. She had just got hired to teach first grade. I am sorry I do not recall the name of the poster but I was wondering if he's out there and if I can get an update on how his daughter is...
@Tom McAndrew Tom, since the follow-on thread is still active I thought it would be best to reply here.
@WSTLion87
Well, apparently I don't have much influence over this daughter, which I already knew. I advised her to join the union and gave her all of the reasons discussed in this thread, but she thought the cost was too high and didn't join. So far there are no repercussions and the other teachers are all being nice to her as far as she knows. I directed her to get her own insurance but have neglected to follow up with her on this subject, so thanks for the reminder as I'll see her this weekend.
BTW, I never previously stated but she is a third grade teacher and having a blast.
I am glad it is working out good for her! I also teach third grade. Is it all right if I can ask for periodic updates? Thanks!OT: Daughter who was thinking of joining the teacher's union - On3
About two months ago there was a poster on here who was asking if his daughter should join the teacher's union. She had just got hired to teach first grade. I am sorry I do not recall the name of the poster but I was wondering if he's out there and if I can get an update on how his daughter is...www.on3.com
@Tom McAndrew Tom, since the follow-on thread is still active I thought it would be best to reply here.
@WSTLion87
Well, apparently I don't have much influence over this daughter, which I already knew. I advised her to join the union and gave her all of the reasons discussed in this thread, but she thought the cost was too high and didn't join. So far there are no repercussions and the other teachers are all being nice to her as far as she knows. I directed her to get her own insurance but have neglected to follow up with her on this subject, so thanks for the reminder as I'll see her this weekend.
BTW, I never previously stated but she is a third grade teacher and having a blast.
OT: Daughter who was thinking of joining the teacher's union - On3
About two months ago there was a poster on here who was asking if his daughter should join the teacher's union. She had just got hired to teach first grade. I am sorry I do not recall the name of the poster but I was wondering if he's out there and if I can get an update on how his daughter is...
@Tom McAndrew Tom, since the follow-on thread is still active I thought it would be best to reply here.
@WSTLion87
Well, apparently I don't have much influence over this daughter, which I already knew. I advised her to join the union and gave her all of the reasons discussed in this thread, but she thought the cost was too high and didn't join. So far there are no repercussions and the other teachers are all being nice to her as far as she knows. I directed her to get her own insurance but have neglected to follow up with her on this subject, so thanks for the reminder as I'll see her this weekend.
BTW, I never previously stated but she is a third grade teacher and having a blast.
She may actually already have some protection w/out the union. She should ask her HR dept if she's not sure.
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