That’s just awful

[HuntDawg]

Money. The most kids are playing at 6U-8U. They start getting weeded out at 9U because that’s when the real travel ball stuff starts, with coach pitch.

8U is the pinnacle, because every parent still thinks there kid is good, hype is high, and you can cover up a lot with the coach pitching. And you don’t generally have to worry about pitch counts. It’s not uncommon to see 60 games now at 8U travel ball.

More kids means more parents and grandparents paying gate fees too.

Then, at 9U up, since kids start quitting, then the pressure gets ramped up to keep the clientele by FOMO. Lessons, more travel for better competition, etc. Consolidation.

Nobody realizes that this system, while profitable for the ones involved, is producing less baseball fans overall. Not to mention injuries to the good players who do it for 12+ years. That’s why the MLB has come out against many of the travel ball principles.

Where did mlb come out against travel ball?

also in coach pitch you don’t have to worry about pitch counts… duh…

the system isn’t producing less baseball fans. Everything is producing less fans of every sport minus football… travel ball has nothing to do with this

 

[mcdawg22]

A college player missing a few innings on a Sunday “really is no different” from a 7 year old missing a few innings of an all star rec league game.

This thread keeps getting better

IF YOU MISS ANY INNINGS SUNDAY YOU ARE PULLING A DOUBLE SHIFT AT THE COAL MINE SON!!!

 

[mcdawg22]

Where did mlb come out against travel ball?

also in coach pitch you don’t have to worry about pitch counts… duh…

the system isn’t producing less baseball fans. Everything is producing less fans of every sport minus football… travel ball has nothing to do with this

That’s where you are wrong. There is an underreported tragedy going on in this country. Every day a middle aged man is getting Tommy John because of over pitching. It’s an epidemic that affects millions of Dads. I really think Father’s Day would have been the perfect opportunity for a PSA.

 

[sandwolf.sixpack]

No, it isn’t any different.

In both cases, adults are making pre-planned commitments to another group of individuals known as a team…..either personally or on behalf of their child.

And in both cases, no matter how many people are watching or what the level of emotional investment is for any number of people that are playing or spectating…..it’s still just a 17ing game at the end of the day. Either don’t commit to it when you know its going to potentially interfere with more important things in your life, or commit to it and put that other stuff aside for a few weeks or months…..for your kid’s sake if nothing else.

So, 17 the parents for committing to another group of people who depended on their support, and then arbitrarily deciding that something else that they already knew well in advance would be a conflict was more important. The forfeit rule, while severe, perhaps is that way for this exact reason….to strongly discourage this type of flaky behavior from parents. Even if the game was allowed to proceed, their team would still be at a major disadvantage and not allowed to compete at the level they could, based on the arbitrary decisions made by just 1-2 individuals who were not themselves even players on the field. Then its the coaches that have to explain to a bunch of crying 7-8 year olds why the game was over right after a bases clearing triple to pull them within a run in the bottom of the last inning, because even though nobody got out, the next spot in the order was automatically out #3. Kinda shítty.

Now, if the rule itself or enforcement protocols for the rule were not clearly communicated to all stakeholders before the season even started, then perhaps that is the real issue….as the spirit of such a rule could not possibly exist (making it pointless) if that detail wasn’t explicitly shared with all stakeholders. If so, then whoever is responsible for that at the Dizzy Dean organizational level should also be held accountable.

LOL, I knew you were going to double down on that dumb *** take.

 

[HuntDawg]

Nobody realizes that this system, while profitable for the ones involved, is producing less baseball fans overall. Not to mention injuries to the good players who do it for 12+ years. That’s why the MLB has come out against many of the travel ball principles.

Also while kids playing the sport has gone down. The attendance is actually going the other way.

All the travel ball events are attended well, even if it’s family.. all the way up to the high school levels.. regular season high schools are now playing state championship games in big stadiums to seat people needed and aren’t having attendance problems. College baseball attendance numbers are at an all time high.

the only place you are seeing fans move away from the game is at the mlb level… and my thoughts are that is because the sport has less Americans playing it than ever before, and because the mlb has successfully priced out the average American family to attend their games .

so the line that the sport is producing less fans overall really isn’t the case it’s actually as strong as it’s ever been at every level until you get to the mlb level

 

[Perd Hapley]

You doubled down on this. I’m impressed.

Why don’t you tell me what’s wrong with what I said?

If church is important to you, and you think it should take precedence over all other things on Sunday, then that’s a fine opinion to have. If you practice all your affairs that way consistently, and are open to all others doing the same, then it’s no issue.

But its a hilarious double standard. It truly is not any different, AT ALL, from an MSU baseball player deciding he’s accepting Christ, and going to get baptized at the church of his calling immediately….instead of playing with his team that Sunday, or just attending a regular church for the same reason because that’s where he’s called to be for that particular day. The overall point is you have all these self-righteous types on here that think one scenario is completely ridiculous, whereas the other is totally acceptable and encouraged. And its only because they personally care a lot more about the outcome of one vs. the other….so they stump for “justice” on the one where they have no skin in the game.

It’s blatant hypocrisy, pure and simple.

For the record, I think both are stupid. You’re on a team, be on a team. Likewise, if you commit to being in church leadership or other service there on Sundays, then don’t dip out on your team there, either, to sit around and watch NFL pregame in your pajamas, or doing yardwork, or attending little league baseball. Honoring your commitments to others whenever possible is part of being an adult.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Cliff notes:
If you make a commitment to something, it needs to take precedent over most anything else

More specifically, if you make a commitment to another group of individuals, especially with the core group of those individuals being children, then you should honor that commitment to the greatest extent you can as it pertains to things within your control.

the parental complaints are stupid because they knew the rules prior, and even if rules are pushed aside, the kids are playing the game at a disadvantage

I don’t know that they knew the rules (as in the forfeit rule) prior, but they would have known about the potential schedule conflicts prior.

if the rules weren’t known then it’s dizzy deans fault and they should be held accountable

Yes. But that still doesn’t totally absolve the parents of their role in the matter, either.

 

[Dawgg]

This is a great post. Vol fan here - I come in peace. But I’m also hoping to provide some context here, as I’m the head coach of the all-star team in this discussion. I relocated to this area from middle Tennessee in 2005, and Starkville is now my forever home. I love it here.

1. You nailed it. Rules matter, but in the case of the rules here, the enforcement was counterintuitive to the MS Dizzy Dean organizational mission statement. I’m not a full time baseball coach. I’m not a travel baseball coach. I’m a dad that loves baseball, that decided to take on an all-star team to give kids an extra chance to play ball this summer. Did I read the rule book? Sure. Did I have it memorized? Absolutely not. Did I think Dizzy Dean and tournament officials would help find a solution if I made a mistake in rule interpretation along the way? Absolutely! I didn’t sneak my lineup card into the umpires’ and scorekeepers’ hands halfway through the first inning. They knew I was only starting with 9 well in advance of first pitch. I received an informal apology from the VP of Dizzy Dean yesterday afternoon regarding the enforcement of this forfeit. The protocol for arriving at the forfeit should’ve been initiated via protest by our opponent (Choctaw County), but they only wanted to play the game. Great folks.

2. We had 7 teams in our recreational league this season. Starkville Parks and Rec allows UP TO 4 nominations for all-stars per team. Quick math says you have 28 nominations. However, the last place team in the league only submitted 1 nomination. So subtract 3 and make that 25 kids to choose from. Toss in another 3 kids whose families said “not this year”, and that leaves 22 players. Now let’s add in the context that Starkville has TWO 8U all-star teams. Starkville White (the state champion) and the Starkville Stars (my team, which made the final 4). Starkville White is the perceived ‘A’ team, so they selected the first 11 of the 22 available nominations. Again, doing quick math, we’re left with 11 players remaining - this is why my team has 11 kids rostered. Unfortunately, 1 of these families had a vacation scheduled and this was not reported until after selections were made, so now you’ve arrived at why I played with 10 at the state tournament.

3. I hate the church narrative (the narrative stating that a child being in church was the cause of all of this) that has stemmed from this fiasco. I did not make the viral Facebook post that’s been brought up in this thread several times. Please discern who says what carefully. That post was not made by a coach, and I hold no ill will towards the family for being where they’re called to be.

4. Couldn’t agree more.

That’s my piece. Again, I’m just a dad trying to help kids create memories. Some of the best from my childhood were at a ballpark. We were having a weekend to remember. We were Starkville’s second team, but in many cases, we were beating the best that other cities and counties had to offer. There were opportunities for the adults to make this work for the kids (both teams wanted it), but the folks in charge went with the forfeit. Luckily, the kids will move on faster than I will.

Thanks for responding. Re: #2 - Sounds like Starkville Parks and Rec needs to update their selection process if they plan on putting together two All Star teams. That would have solved some of these problems. I now get why a pool of 18 dropped down to 9 so easily. I mentioned in another post in my Dixie Youth baseball days that we had 3 'alternates' that didn't count against the roster cap and were only called on when a regular All-Star had to drop out of competition due to family vacation, church, sickness, et al. I don't know if that's against Dizzy Dean or Starkville Parks & Rec guidelines, but it would have probably helped this situation.

Thank you for volunteering to coach. It's a thankless gig for the most part. I'm sorry this season worked out the way it did for you guys, especially when it seems so avoidable at multiple levels.

Also, I hope Tennessee's baseball team loses these next two games by double digits and that's only because losing by triple digits would take too long. Have a great day!

 

[Ers236]

Exactly.

I mean I’m sure we’d all be fine on here if DJ or Hines or Mershon or Hujsak missed the first few innings of a rubber game because of their worship activities, right? LOL.

It really is no different. Hell, I still remember Ryan Gridley getting raked over the coals for weeks for missing a game so he could be in his sister’s wedding.

I remember the Gridley ordeal. I didn't think our baseball fans were going to survive

 

[Dawgg]

the only place you are seeing fans move away from the game is at the mlb level… and my thoughts are that is because the sport has less Americans playing it than ever before, and because the mlb has successfully priced out the average American family to attend their games .

Yeah, I miss the good ol' days when we had good ol' American players like:
Fergie Jenkins
Luis Aparicio
Rod Carew
Fernando Venezuela
Jose Canseco
Rafael Palmeiro
Chan Ho Park
Pedro Martinez
Minnie Minoso
Tony Perez
Larry Walker
Hideo Nomo
Ichiro Suzuki
Andruw Jones
Dennis Martinez
Bert Blyleven
Devon White
Chili Davis
Tony Oliva
Jim McCormick

Also, I'm taking my son to a Rangers game tomorrow night. Even with taxes and fees included, the tickets were about $15 apiece.

 

[johnson86-1]

If everybody hates travel ball and everybody hates spending the money and time, why do yall do it? And yes, I do have kids and yes, I do say "no" quite often. 25% of these kids will play ball past junior high, 10% will play at any level after high school and .05% will make a living doing it. Why not just say, "Go be a kid and play" in the summer and not deal with this. All of this bs is for the parents.

Buyers predict the market. Don't want to play on Sundays and take your kids to church? Don't play. If enough people stop doing it, they will change the format of the tournaments. All this "woe is me my kid's tournament got canceled" stuff is stupid. I guarantee you that, by this morning, none of those kids give two dog ***** about that tournament and have moved on. But the parents are going to cry like little female dogs for months to years about it.

Part of it is that all the stupid people you run into on a day to day basis don't suddenly become not stupid when they become parents. But part of it, and the much worse part of it, is that a lot of reasonably smart people become stupid when dealing with things involving their kids. Kids sports seems to be the worst thing possible for adults' intelligence and sense of decency, but it's certainly not limited to sports. I will say sports seems to be uniquely bad when it comes to actually acting poorly towards other kids and parents. Most parents just do stupid things because they want the best for their kids and fear they're not doing enough and overvalue material goods and commercial activities. Part of it is I guess the zero sum nature of there only being so much playing time available in school sports, so it makes sense that wanting the best/most for their kids bleeds over into wanting less for other kids. But that doesn't explain the jackassery that you see in elementary aged sports, whether rec or travel.

 

[HuntDawg]

Yeah, I miss the good ol' days when we had good ol' American players like:
Fergie Jenkins
Luis Aparicio
Rod Carew
Fernando Venezuela
Jose Canseco
Rafael Palmeiro
Chan Ho Park
Pedro Martinez
Minnie Minoso
Tony Perez
Larry Walker
Hideo Nomo
Ichiro Suzuki
Andruw Jones
Dennis Martinez
Bert Blyleven
Devon White
Chili Davis
Tony Oliva
Jim McCormick

Also, I'm taking my son to a Rangers game tomorrow night. Even with taxes and fees included, the tickets were about $15 apiece.

I mean I can site examples as well. But go look up the numbers, less Americans in the game than ever before. This is fact.

ticket prices, the teams are starting to feel the effects of over pricing and maybe the prices will start to come back down. 2/3 years ago you weren’t getting in the door for that price, but glad you are now

I went to a World Series game in Texas standing room only was 500 bucks

 

[johnson86-1]

Hell, I still remember Ryan Gridley getting raked over the coals for weeks for missing a game so he could be in his sister’s wedding.

It may be selective memory, but I remember it being more about criticizing his sister for scheduling a wedding during SEC baseball when she had a brother that was an SEC baseball player. It's like scheduling a wedding the weekend before finals when you have a sibling in college or law school or medical school or whatever or scheduling it for the weekend before April 15 if you have a sibling that's a CPA. You aren't always going to be able to make everybody happy, but you shouldn't schedule it for a weekend that is hard on your closest relatives unless there are extenuating circumstances that make it hard to avoid (e.g., trying to do a wedding before a deployment, or trying to get that wedding in before the bride is showing too much).

ETA: not to say anybody had enough insight into the situation to justify criticizing his sister either, but it does seem much less unhinged to assume there wasn't some extenuating circumstance that would justify scheduling during baseball (or her asking and Gridley sincerely not caring about missing a game) than it would be to criticize him for skipping a game (or two? can't remember if it was Friday and Saturday) to attend the wedding.

 

[Dawgg]

I mean I can site examples as well. But go look up the numbers, less Americans in the game than ever before. This is fact.

ticket prices, the teams are starting to feel the effects of over pricing and maybe the prices will start to come back down. 2/3 years ago you weren’t getting in the door for that price, but glad you are now

I went to a World Series game in Texas standing room only was 500 bucks

Well yeah, it’s the 17ing World Series.

 

[HuntDawg]

Well yeah, it’s the 17ing World Series.

And the 15 bucks is for a 17ing regular season game against a nobody.

again all the facts are there to be looked up. Less Americans than ever and I haven’t looked recently but 2-4 years ago the ticket prices were at an all time high. If they are dropping now… it’s a step the right direction

 

[Perd Hapley]

It may be selective memory, but I remember it being more about criticizing his sister for scheduling a wedding during SEC baseball when she had a brother that was an SEC baseball player.

Which is also equally ridiculous, and perhaps more ridiculous. Pretty sure that 2 people who decide they want to spend their lives together, raise a family together, etc. and want to spend a small fortune on just one day to celebrate the union and pay for all the shít so that others can celebrate it too are allowed to pick whatever the 17 date they want to do it. They did what they were supposed to do, made the decision about what they wanted. Those that wanted to be there could be there, those that couldn’t be there or didn’t want to be could just send a gift or well wishes, and it would be no hard feelings either way. Gridley wanted to be there, so he went, and somehow the sun came up the next day and we still had a great baseball season.

It's like scheduling a wedding the weekend before finals when you have a sibling in college or law school or medical school or whatever or scheduling it for the weekend before April 15 if you have a sibling that's a CPA.

Ehh….not really. Baseball season is 4+ months long, and they play 4-5 games per week. You don’t ever have a time when you are spending 80% of your week for 4 months getting ready for finals or tax day. And given that any wedding is going to be a Saturday affair, its not easy to just pick a day where there is no baseball in the Spring.

If it goes based off the brother’s calendar, February through June are out. That’s almost half the year….including all of the most popular season for weddings.

January is possible, but who the 17 wants to do that? Everyone’s spent from the holidays and is trying to just low key get their regular routine back. It’s the coldest month of the year most places, just not a great travel month or for outdoor partying. Late June, July, August in the South? Sweltering heat and summer vacations to deal with. September-November? Hey, who’s favorite school’s open dates are when? Then you’re back to December….holidays and cold weather again. Trade-offs everywhere you look.

And in Gridley’s case, its not like his professional future prospects were tied to whether or not he played all 3 weekend series games against Alabama. It just ain’t that deep.

You aren't always going to be able to make everybody happy, but you shouldn't schedule it for a weekend that is hard on your closest relatives unless there are extenuating circumstances that make it hard to avoid (e.g., trying to do a wedding before a deployment, or trying to get that wedding in before the bride is showing too much).

You should schedule it when you want. It’s your 17ing wedding. 17 what anyone else thinks about it except the 2 people getting married, with the possible exception of those paying for it if it is not exclusively one of those 2 people.

If you want a spring wedding, schedule a spring wedding. There are a thousand other variables in play besides just one sibling who plays SEC baseball. Their chosen honeymoon destination might have not been a good place to visit in summer / fall, they might have life events besides their wedding to plan around, could have been the best time for them to take off work, etc. Or they might have had none of that, and just decided its when they wanted to do it. Doesn’t matter.

Again, anyone is allowed to come or not come. Free will. People overthinking weddings and trying to account for every idiosyncrasy of everyone on the guest list, the weather, food allergies, if the conservative in-laws would approve of beer AND liquor, and all that other crap is what makes them such a pain in the *** to orchestrate in the first place. If they made up their mind that they weren’t going to worry with all that, then good on them.

ETA: not to say anybody had enough insight into the situation to justify criticizing his sister either, but it does seem much less unhinged to assume there wasn't some extenuating circumstance that would justify scheduling during baseball (or her asking and Gridley sincerely not caring about missing a game) than it would be to criticize him for skipping a game (or two? can't remember if it was Friday and Saturday) to attend the wedding.

I don’t think there’s reason to assume there was anything nefarious about any of it.

If he had a wedding to attend every season, or if it was a regular thing, then it would obviously be different. But it ended up being just one game.

 

[DerHntr]

Why don’t you tell me what’s wrong with what I said?

If church is important to you, and you think it should take precedence over all other things on Sunday, then that’s a fine opinion to have. If you practice all your affairs that way consistently, and are open to all others doing the same, then it’s no issue.

But its a hilarious double standard. It truly is not any different, AT ALL, from an MSU baseball player deciding he’s accepting Christ, and going to get baptized at the church of his calling immediately….instead of playing with his team that Sunday, or just attending a regular church for the same reason because that’s where he’s called to be for that particular day. The overall point is you have all these self-righteous types on here that think one scenario is completely ridiculous, whereas the other is totally acceptable and encouraged. And its only because they personally care a lot more about the outcome of one vs. the other….so they stump for “justice” on the one where they have no skin in the game.

It’s blatant hypocrisy, pure and simple.

For the record, I think both are stupid. You’re on a team, be on a team. Likewise, if you commit to being in church leadership or other service there on Sundays, then don’t dip out on your team there, either, to sit around and watch NFL pregame in your pajamas, or doing yardwork, or attending little league baseball. Honoring your commitments to others whenever possible is part of being an adult.

7 year olds in rec league are in no way comparable to SEC college baseball players. Keep writing a thesis about it. It won’t matter.

 

[Dawgg]

And the 15 bucks is for a 17ing regular season game against a nobody.

again all the facts are there to be looked up. Less Americans than ever and I haven’t looked recently but 2-4 years ago the ticket prices were at an all time high. If they are dropping now… it’s a step the right direction

2-4 Years ago was covid, social distancing, and limited availability. I’m sure the tickets were sky high, especially on the secondary market, because of the scarcity alone.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Well yeah, it’s the 17ing World Series.

I went to a Rangers game recently, bought great seats for $35.

@HuntDawg is clueless. Apparently failed economics.

 

[HuntDawg]

2-4 Years ago was covid, social distancing, and limited availability. I’m sure the tickets were sky high, especially on the secondary market, because of the scarcity alone.

Even before then. But it’s fine. If you disagree so be it

 

[Perd Hapley]

7 year olds in rec league are in no way comparable to SEC college baseball players. Keep writing a thesis about it. It won’t matter.

Totally agree. But, it wasn’t the 7-year-olds that I was comparing to SEC baseball players.

If you yourself had applied even a 7-year-old’s reading comprehension and critical thinking skills to just the first couple of sentences of either “thesis”, you’d realize that. Maybe next time.

 

[HuntDawg]

I went to a Rangers game recently, bought great seats for $35.

@HuntDawg is clueless. Apparently failed economics.

Again… any conversation you are on one side of.. it’s generally a good idea to be on the other. This thread alone paints that picture very clear

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I mean I can site examples as well. But go look up the numbers, less Americans in the game than ever before. This is fact.

ticket prices, the teams are starting to feel the effects of over pricing and maybe the prices will start to come back down. 2/3 years ago you weren’t getting in the door for that price, but glad you are now

I went to a World Series game in Texas standing room only was 500 bucks

Well yeah, it’s the 17ing World Series.

I spent $500 each on standing room tickets at the World Series in Texas too... In 2010. Out on a balcony in the office buildings. Only game we won that year. Moreland hit a tank that game as a rookie.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I spent $500 each on standing room tickets at the World Series in Texas too... In 2010. Out on a balcony in the office buildings. Only game we won that year. Moreland hit a tank that game as a rookie.

Want to know how far baseball has fallen? I had forgotten that the Rangers won it all in 2023 until I went in there and saw the banner. In front of a 40% full stadium.

That being said, the Braves still fill their shlt up during the week. But they are the top dawg in the center of travel ball country, even though Georgia itself is more football centric.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Want to know how far baseball has fallen? I had forgotten that the Rangers won it all in 2023 until I went in there and saw the banner. In front of a 40% full stadium.

That being said, the Braves still fill their shlt up during the week. But they are the top dawg in the center of travel ball country, even though Georgia itself is more football centric.

MLB attendance is only about 10% off from its peak in 2007ish. I figured it would be more like 30%. It's taken 3 big hits... 94' Strike. 2009 financial crisis. COVID. It's been hovering right around 30,000 per game for almost 25 years now. Last year was 29,115.

The Rangers are a different story. They are in a shìt location. There's way more disposable income in the northern half of Dallas Fort Worth vs South... Like double the household income.

I used to have season tickets from 07-11. I would drive to midweek games and it would take about 45 minutes to an hour each way from my home in North Dallas in the worst traffic. By 2011-12 it was well over an hour and now would take at least an hour and a half if not longer.

The population of DFW has grown by 2 million people in the last 15 years. Arlington is a horrible location. All of the people that have the extra income and especially kids that play ball are up north not down south. The Frisco Roughrider led double a attendance for 15 consecutive years prior to COVID.

Arlington is great for Jerry World wear games are in Sundays and you only have 9-11 a year counting preseason and playoffs. Midweek in Arlington is silly. That stadium should be up north on the Sam Rayburn Tollway by Nebraska Furniture Mart.

 

[HuntDawg]

MLB attendance is only about 10% off from its peak in 2007ish. I figured it would be more like 30%. It's taken 3 big hits... 94' Strike. 2009 financial crisis. COVID. It's been hovering right around 30,000 per game for almost 25 years now. Last year was 29,115.

The Rangers are a different story. They are in a shìt location. There's way more disposable income in the northern half of Dallas Fort Worth vs South... Like double the household income.

I used to have season tickets from 07-11. I would drive to midweek games and it would take about 45 minutes to an hour each way from my home in North Dallas in the worst traffic. By 2011-12 it was well over an hour and now would take at least an hour and a half if not longer.

The population of DFW has grown by 2 million people in the last 15 years. Arlington is a horrible location. All of the people that have the extra income and especially kids that play ball are up north not down south. The Frisco Roughrider led double a attendance for 15 consecutive years prior to COVID.

Arlington is great for Jerry World wear games are in Sundays and you only have 9-11 a year counting preseason and playoffs. Midweek in Arlington is silly. That stadium should be up north on the Sam Rayburn Tollway by Nebraska Furniture Mart.

You mean baseball hasn’t fallen off? And only people like goat have fallen off the wagon?

agreed about location of rangers. Nothing to do in that area but that and Texas live. area isn’t exaclty safe either except right there in the stadium area

 

[OG Goat Holder]

MLB attendance is only about 10% off from its peak in 2007ish. I figured it would be more like 30%. It's taken 3 big hits... 94' Strike. 2009 financial crisis. COVID. It's been hovering right around 30,000 per game for almost 25 years now. Last year was 29,115.

I think the roid era and analytics era have hurt too. Roids killed the statistics side of it, which was a big deal in the old days. And the analytics have made it boring with adding a true stats element. Nobody gives a **** about OPS as far as entertainment.

I actually think in-person attendance probably outpaces the TV crowd in baseball. Baseball is a great in-person sport to watch....it's laid back and relaxing. On TV, to the average person, with no allegiance, it's brutal. And it's got all summer with nothing really to compete with it as far as shlt to do, so why not go to the games.

I will say, they've built up that area around Globe Life. Obviously they were trying to create a Power and Light District/Battery type feel. It does seem like that would have been better done in the burbs. I like downtown stadiums, but yeah, Arlington ain't downtown. Frisco is definitely the place to be.

 

[HuntDawg]

I think the roid era and analytics era have hurt too. Roids killed the statistics side of it, which was a big deal in the old days. And the analytics have made it boring with adding a true stats element. Nobody gives a **** about OPS as far as entertainment.

I actually think in-person attendance probably outpaces the TV crowd in baseball. Baseball is a great in-person sport to watch....it's laid back and relaxing. On TV, to the average person, with no allegiance, it's brutal. And it's got all summer with nothing really to compete with it as far as shlt to do, so why not go to the games.

I will say, they've built up that area around Globe Life. Obviously they were trying to create a Power and Light District/Battery type feel. It does seem like that would have been better done in the burbs. I like downtown stadiums, but yeah, Arlington ain't downtown.

To the average person with no allegiance… any sport minus football is brutal On tv. Seeing a drop in tv viewers by the gallon. NBA, mlb, hockey, everything .

 

[Perd Hapley]

I think the roid era and analytics era have hurt too. Roids killed the statistics side of it, which was a big deal in the old days. And the analytics have made it boring with adding a true stats element. Nobody gives a **** about OPS as far as entertainment.

I actually think in-person attendance probably outpaces the TV crowd in baseball. Baseball is a great in-person sport to watch....it's laid back and relaxing. On TV, to the average person, with no allegiance, it's brutal. And it's got all summer with nothing really to compete with it as far as shlt to do, so why not go to the games.

I will say, they've built up that area around Globe Life. Obviously they were trying to create a Power and Light District/Battery type feel. It does seem like that would have been better done in the burbs. I like downtown stadiums, but yeah, Arlington ain't downtown. Frisco is definitely the place to be.

I do think the true test is the TV product.

Take out all but about 5-7 teams (Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox, Dodgers, Cardinals….and to a lesser extent maybe the Braves and the Giants). Those teams are institutions that are a part of the cultural fabric of the cities. Everyone else is going to have serious trouble filling up their stadium….even on the weekends….outside of certain divisional rival games and late season games if they are in a pennant race. All those teams have a core attendance of about 20-30% season ticket holders, 30-40% locals who drive in from an hour away or less, and 30-40% tourists from further away who just so happen to be in town for some reason for an extended period (work, vacation, etc.) and decide that they want to catch a game while they are there. Any big city, no matter how crappy the team or small the nationwide market is, can get 25,000 or so in a stadium just from those groups. But everyone but the season ticket folks are transients. The overall number of transient attendees can fluctuate up or down, but its not going to move the needle overall for baseball.

Its the TV ratings that matter. How many people are actually watching MLB games, when they could be watching anything else, or doing anything else? That’s the litmus test. Its really easy to get excited about going to an Astros game on a Wednesday when you’ve got a work convention to attend. But would you be watching that same game on TV that day if you were at home and had free time to do anything else? Probably not.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I do think the true test is the TV product.

Take out all but about 5-7 teams (Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox, Dodgers, Cardinals….and to a lesser extent maybe the Braves and the Giants). Those teams are institutions that are a part of the cultural fabric of the cities. Everyone else is going to have serious trouble filling up their stadium….even on the weekends….outside of certain divisional rival games and late season games if they are in a pennant race. All those teams have a core attendance of about 20-30% season ticket holders, 30-40% locals who drive in from an hour away or less, and 30-40% tourists from further away who just so happen to be in town for some reason for an extended period (work, vacation, etc.) and decide that they want to catch a game while they are there. Any big city, no matter how crappy the team or small the nationwide market is, can get 25,000 or so in a stadium just from those groups. But everyone but the season ticket folks are transients. The overall number of transient attendees can fluctuate up or down, but its not going to move the needle overall for baseball.

Its the TV ratings that matter. How many people are actually watching MLB games, when they could be watching anything else, or doing anything else? That’s the litmus test. Its really easy to get excited about going to an Astros game on a Wednesday when you’ve got a work convention to attend. But would you be watching that same game on TV that day if you were at home and had free time to do anything else? Probably not.

I agree, and I hate it. Baseball is my favorite sport, but I’ve got a bad relationship with it right now. MSU is a big reason. It’s well known here that I’m not fond of the travel ball system as it exists today too. And other reasons. So add all that up and I’m finally allowing the reality to sink in. TV runs everything at the moment.

And 100% correct on going to a game while on a work trip. That’s what I did. It I have not even halfway though about watching the Rangers since then. I don’t even keep up with the Braves (my team).

I really think 2021 was the pinnacle for me.