These kids out here dropping like flies (13-year old TJs).....

[OG Goat Holder]

The model actually works fine if you are serious about the sport.

The issue is the people in the middle or the people that have to work their tails off to remain good enough to be at tip of the elite level. The ones in the middle arent serious enough about it to give up their summers and weekends.. and wish everyone else would stop so they could stop too.

Again I dont think i've ever heard a college level type talent complain about travel ball.. or these current college playesr complain about going to the cape or another summer league for another season's worth of games to showcase their talents.

There is no real answer, because if your kid lives and breathes it... why would you make them stop? In other words if your kid(s) want to play baseball and want to be at the park... why would you not allow them to do so? You can find plenty of travel teams that dont over use pitchers and are well ran and coached if you look hard enough

We're talking about different things. The complaint is with the Saturday/Sunday all-day model, with a possibility of 5 games usually in 2 days (if you win), and some days a few more.

I agree with you on travel ball itself. Playing better competition is usually always good. But I will stay that silo-ing the crappy kids off doesn't do much towards making them lifelong fans of the game. Somebody needs to pay the ticket prices.

 

[HuntDawg]

We're talking about different things. The complaint is with the Saturday/Sunday all-day model, with a possibility of 5 games usually in 2 days (if you win), and some days a few more.

I agree with you on travel ball itself. Playing better competition is usually always good. But I will stay that silo-ing the crappy kids off doesn't do much towards making them lifelong fans of the game. Somebody needs to pay the ticket prices.

yeah i mean the sat/sun all day thing is a drag.. but its the only way to get it done. If you added in a friday or monday now your talking about hotels or missing work.... although i have heard rumors of instead of tournament style just having teams show up, play 4 games on a longer timer, and be done without the tournamnet... But i dont think that'll happen due to people wanting those rings.

The main compliant i have and have always had is... they can schedule it in a way to allow teams to get their games in and leave. In other words have teams play back to back.. or have all the fields dedicated to this level from 9-12 and another level from 12-3 and anotehr level from 3-6.

That way you could get familys, players, teams, in and out and not monopolize their entire day.. but that wont ever happen due to concessions, and the money benefits of making them stay all day.

The 4-5 games in 2 days thing isnt an issue to me.. most teams have pitchers, most teams believe it or not, dont over use pitchers.. and most teams arent good enough to play the extra games anyway... and the teams that are good enough, have players that want to be there and want to play in those games.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

yeah i mean the sat/sun all day thing is a drag.. but its the only way to get it done. If you added in a friday or monday now your talking about hotels or missing work.... although i have heard rumors of instead of tournament style just having teams show up, play 4 games on a longer timer, and be done without the tournamnet... But i dont think that'll happen due to people wanting those rings.

The main compliant i have and have always had is... they can schedule it in a way to allow teams to get their games in and leave. In other words have teams play back to back.. or have all the fields dedicated to this level from 9-12 and another level from 12-3 and anotehr level from 3-6.

That way you could get familys, players, teams, in and out and not monopolize their entire day.. but that wont ever happen due to concessions, and the money benefits of making them stay all day.

The 4-5 games in 2 days thing isnt an issue to me.. most teams have pitchers, most teams believe it or not, dont over use pitchers.. and most teams arent good enough to play the extra games anyway... and the teams that are good enough, have players that want to be there and want to play in those games.

Hunt dawg I don’t agree with you on everything but I will say I do think you spend some time in the travel ball scene…..curious what you think about this. I’m going to go ahead and challenge a theory that so many subscribe to, mainly due to hope. I think the best players at the young ages are the best players at the older ages. At least 80% of the time and probably more. Basically, if you aren’t making all stars at 7/8U or at least close and semi-dominating, it likely ain’t happening later.

For that reason I tell people to get on travel teams as soon as possible now, because the best teams, like you say, have the talent and don’t over pitch as much. That shlt is more common at the A and AA levels where coaches are playing for ego. Get out of it - if your kid likes it and is serious about playing. Choose your friends wisely early on- it’s the reality these days. At least in MS.

Certainly the better athletes can flounder around and make school teams later. But again, those kids were showing it at young ages. I mean name me a D1 college player or draft pick that wasn’t tearing up every level of youth baseball they played.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Hunt dawg I don’t agree with you on everything but I will say I do think you spend some time in the travel ball scene…..curious what you think about this. I’m going to go ahead and challenge a theory that so many subscribe to, mainly due to hope. I think the best players at the young ages are the best players at the older ages. At least 80% of the time and probably more. Basically, if you aren’t making all stars at 7/8U or at least close and semi-dominating, it likely ain’t happening later.

For that reason I tell people to get on travel teams as soon as possible now, because the best teams, like you say, have the talent and don’t over pitch as much. That shlt is more common at the A and AA levels where coaches are playing for ego. Get out of it - if your kid likes it and is serious about playing. Choose your friends wisely early on- it’s the reality these days. At least in MS.

Certainly the better athletes can flounder around and make school teams later. But again, those kids were showing it at young ages. I mean name me a D1 college player or draft pick that wasn’t tearing up every level of youth baseball they played.

I'm joining in on this because I will take the other side. The only reason the best player at 7/8u is also the best in high school and beyond is because they are more athletic and stick with baseball. Its just that kids in the south, particularly suburban white kids will play travel baseball over anything else. Its definitely an iron sharpens iron world in the south with baseball.

But let's have you take the B athlete and shove him travel ball at 7 and I take the A athlete and stick him in a decent little league at 7, then have him play football and basketball the rest of the year until age 13 when he decides to go all in on baseball. Who's going to be better as a Senior in high school? My money is on the A athlete. Same as it would be in just about any other sport.



Last year I coached a rag tag Babe Ruth team of 13-15 year olds. I had couple of 13 year olds that were my best pitchers. Both were extremely young for the league. One has played serious travel ball in So California. His initials are TV #21. He's an average athlete, but a great ball player. The other pitcher CW #3 has played recreational ball his whole life. His #1 sport is basketball and he's also the QB for the 7th grade football team. Decent ball player and exceptional athlete. We played a 12 game schedule.

First 6 games of the year. TV is throwing strikes, CW is struggling. TV is barely in the 60's on velocity and that new 60' mound is making it feel slow. CW on the other hand has a nuclear missile for his right arm. Was touching 70, but wild as hell. Both pitched exactly 6-2/3 innings.




Now look at the last 6 games after I had time to work with CW. He pitched 12 innings for us in those last 6 games. He missed a few games for basketball showcases. I fixed his stride and got his fingers on top of the ball. He was topping out at 75 by his last game with a filthy low 3)4 arm angle like Pedro Martinez had.

TV on the other hand started having arm soreness that he apparently battled the year before in his bicep. He only pitched 5 innings and became my first basemen.



CW could legit go D1 or better if he drops everything and focuses on Baseball. He apparently might play at the lower college levels in basketball. And he'll be a 3 year starter at QB in high school.

TV is more likely to stick with baseball. But who's better? The better athlete. I proved it in 8 weeks and I don't know shìt compared to a top tier coach.

FYI. CW came out to long toss with me and a few kids in the fall and was chunking it 300' as an 8th grader. He could potentially get into the mid 90's if he works at it. He's only 5'11" 140 right now. His dad and older brother are 6'3 225 plus. I'm screaming at his dad to get him working more on baseball than he is. Because my thoughts are everything that made him great up to 13 ( being a wonderful all around athlete) is going to be a drawback. See kids like TV are puberting and hitting the weights and training baseball. By their senior year TV may throw mid 80's and know how to pitch. CW won't throw much harder and will not be able to locate.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I'm joining in on this because I will take the other side. The only reason the best player at 7/8u is also the best in high school and beyond is because they are more athletic and stick with baseball. Its just that kids in the south, particularly suburban white kids will play travel baseball over anything else. Its definitely an iron sharpens iron world in the south with baseball.

But let's have you take the B athlete and shove him travel ball at 7 and I take the A athlete and stick him in a decent little league at 7, then have him play football and basketball the rest of the year until age 13 when he decides to go all in on baseball. Who's going to be better as a Senior in high school? My money is on the A athlete. Same as it would be in just about any other sport.



Last year I coached a rag tag Babe Ruth team of 13-15 year olds. I had couple of 13 year olds that were my best pitchers. Both were extremely young for the league. One has played serious travel ball in So California. His initials are TV #21. He's an average athlete, but a great ball player. The other pitcher CW #3 has played recreational ball his whole life. His #1 sport is basketball and he's also the QB for the 7th grade football team. Decent ball player and exceptional athlete. We played a 12 game schedule.

First 6 games of the year. TV is throwing strikes, CW is struggling. TV is barely in the 60's on velocity and that new 60' mound is making it feel slow. CW on the other hand has a nuclear missile for his right arm. Was touching 70, but wild as hell. Both pitched exactly 6-2/3 innings.

View attachment 793321


Now look at the last 6 games after I had time to work with CW. He pitched 12 innings for us in those last 6 games. He missed a few games for basketball showcases. I fixed his stride and got his fingers on top of the ball. He was topping out at 75 by his last game with a filthy low 3)4 arm angle like Pedro Martinez had.

TV on the other hand started having arm soreness that he apparently battled the year before in his bicep. He only pitched 5 innings and became my first basemen.

View attachment 793324

CW could legit go D1 or better if he drops everything and focuses on Baseball. He apparently might play at the lower college levels in basketball. And he'll be a 3 year starter at QB in high school.

TV is more likely to stick with baseball. But who's better? The better athlete. I proved it in 8 weeks and I don't know shìt compared to a top tier coach.

FYI. CW came out to long toss with me and a few kids in the fall and was chunking it 300' as an 8th grader. He could potentially get into the mid 90's if he works at it. He's only 5'11" 140 right now. His dad and older brother are 6'3 225 plus. I'm screaming at his dad to get him working more on baseball than he is. Because my thoughts are everything that made him great up to 13 ( being a wonderful all around athlete) is going to be a drawback. See kids like TV are puberting and hitting the weights and training baseball. By their senior year TV may throw mid 80's and know how to pitch. CW won't throw much harder and will not be able to locate.

Sounds like we agree. My whole point is, the reason we're talking about both TV and CV is that they were likely the best players in their leagues from the beginning. At least 'all star' worthy.

 

[Bulldog45]

yeah i mean the sat/sun all day thing is a drag.. but its the only way to get it done. If you added in a friday or monday now your talking about hotels or missing work.... although i have heard rumors of instead of tournament style just having teams show up, play 4 games on a longer timer, and be done without the tournamnet... But i dont think that'll happen due to people wanting those rings.

The main compliant i have and have always had is... they can schedule it in a way to allow teams to get their games in and leave. In other words have teams play back to back.. or have all the fields dedicated to this level from 9-12 and another level from 12-3 and anotehr level from 3-6.

My ideal setup at least in areas where you have a high concentration of teams would be a tournament “league” and you’d play a series of 3 game series against other teams like college and high school with actual pitch count limits etc. That would spread the pitches across the full roster and lead to more pitching development. Would also eliminate the roster switches and swaps you see from teams from weekend to weekend chasing after rings and social media marketing material.

 

[HuntDawg]

Hunt dawg I don’t agree with you on everything but I will say I do think you spend some time in the travel ball scene…..curious what you think about this. I’m going to go ahead and challenge a theory that so many subscribe to, mainly due to hope. I think the best players at the young ages are the best players at the older ages. At least 80% of the time and probably more. Basically, if you aren’t making all stars at 7/8U or at least close and semi-dominating, it likely ain’t happening later.

For that reason I tell people to get on travel teams as soon as possible now, because the best teams, like you say, have the talent and don’t over pitch as much. That shlt is more common at the A and AA levels where coaches are playing for ego. Get out of it - if your kid likes it and is serious about playing. Choose your friends wisely early on- it’s the reality these days. At least in MS.

Certainly the better athletes can flounder around and make school teams later. But again, those kids were showing it at young ages. I mean name me a D1 college player or draft pick that wasn’t tearing up every level of youth baseball they played.

no i agree. The best at a young age are typically the best at the older ages.

I've said forever, travel ball actually is very good for the elite (and i realize elite can be defined many ways) player. It allows them to play against/compete against the other elite talent in the area much more often. Where-as usually even in the bigger park leagues there arent that many elite talents in it.

What travel ball kills is that middle tier athlete. The one that isnt quiet good enough to be on that good team, or with that good coach... or whose family doesnt want to make that investment of time/money etc into it b/c they know their kid is going to play RF and hit 9th.. and they know Larry, Joe, and John are studs and their kid will never be that good..... that kid/family is having to make the tough decision as to when is enough/enough and when its better to just going a rec league/or quit.. and go fishing and vacationing in the summers and on the weekends

i also agree.. put em in travel ball asap. You and your child will figure out where you stand against a large pool of athletes his age quicker, you'll make connections, AND you'll figure out quicker if this is something you want to invest in or not.

 

[HuntDawg]

I'm joining in on this because I will take the other side. The only reason the best player at 7/8u is also the best in high school and beyond is because they are more athletic and stick with baseball. Its just that kids in the south, particularly suburban white kids will play travel baseball over anything else. Its definitely an iron sharpens iron world in the south with baseball.

But let's have you take the B athlete and shove him travel ball at 7 and I take the A athlete and stick him in a decent little league at 7, then have him play football and basketball the rest of the year until age 13 when he decides to go all in on baseball. Who's going to be better as a Senior in high school? My money is on the A athlete. Same as it would be in just about any other sport.



Last year I coached a rag tag Babe Ruth team of 13-15 year olds. I had couple of 13 year olds that were my best pitchers. Both were extremely young for the league. One has played serious travel ball in So California. His initials are TV #21. He's an average athlete, but a great ball player. The other pitcher CW #3 has played recreational ball his whole life. His #1 sport is basketball and he's also the QB for the 7th grade football team. Decent ball player and exceptional athlete. We played a 12 game schedule.

First 6 games of the year. TV is throwing strikes, CW is struggling. TV is barely in the 60's on velocity and that new 60' mound is making it feel slow. CW on the other hand has a nuclear missile for his right arm. Was touching 70, but wild as hell. Both pitched exactly 6-2/3 innings.

View attachment 793321


Now look at the last 6 games after I had time to work with CW. He pitched 12 innings for us in those last 6 games. He missed a few games for basketball showcases. I fixed his stride and got his fingers on top of the ball. He was topping out at 75 by his last game with a filthy low 3)4 arm angle like Pedro Martinez had.

TV on the other hand started having arm soreness that he apparently battled the year before in his bicep. He only pitched 5 innings and became my first basemen.

View attachment 793324

CW could legit go D1 or better if he drops everything and focuses on Baseball. He apparently might play at the lower college levels in basketball. And he'll be a 3 year starter at QB in high school.

TV is more likely to stick with baseball. But who's better? The better athlete. I proved it in 8 weeks and I don't know shìt compared to a top tier coach.

FYI. CW came out to long toss with me and a few kids in the fall and was chunking it 300' as an 8th grader. He could potentially get into the mid 90's if he works at it. He's only 5'11" 140 right now. His dad and older brother are 6'3 225 plus. I'm screaming at his dad to get him working more on baseball than he is. Because my thoughts are everything that made him great up to 13 ( being a wonderful all around athlete) is going to be a drawback. See kids like TV are puberting and hitting the weights and training baseball. By their senior year TV may throw mid 80's and know how to pitch. CW won't throw much harder and will not be able to locate.

i dont disagree with all this... but there are many circumstances. I cant tell you many "athletes" that were very good at a younger age because they were athletes. The pitchers were throwing hard yet, the breaking stuff wasnt there yet.....

They didnt play any summer ball because they were football/baksetball players. While all the other kids were playing in the summer and honing their baseball skills... these kids never did that... and by the time they were in 9th/10th grade they had falling so far behind they've quit the game and focused on football and basketball.

There are some things about baseball that only comes with reps. Unless you see a 90+ mph a lot its going to be hard to hit it.. if you dont ever see a nasty breaking ball.. its going to be hard to hit it. If you dont play enough to know how to properly run the baseball and have a knack for when to go and when not to go... its going to difficult to get on the field if your local high school has a quality team.

There are plenty of those "B" type athletes that you explained.. that are gritty, all about the game, fundamentally sound, and know the game inside and out.. that will run circles around a team full of those type A athletes unless more than a few of those A types really blossom into something special

 

[OG Goat Holder]

i dont disagree with all this... but there are many circumstances. I cant tell you many "athletes" that were very good at a younger age because they were athletes. The pitchers were throwing hard yet, the breaking stuff wasnt there yet.....

They didnt play any summer ball because they were football/baksetball players. While all the other kids were playing in the summer and honing their baseball skills... these kids never did that... and by the time they were in 9th/10th grade they had falling so far behind they've quit the game and focused on football and basketball.

There are some things about baseball that only comes with reps. Unless you see a 90+ mph a lot its going to be hard to hit it.. if you dont ever see a nasty breaking ball.. its going to be hard to hit it. If you dont play enough to know how to properly run the baseball and have a knack for when to go and when not to go... its going to difficult to get on the field if your local high school has a quality team.

There are plenty of those "B" type athletes that you explained.. that are gritty, all about the game, fundamentally sound, and know the game inside and out.. that will run circles around a team full of those type A athletes unless more than a few of those A types really blossom into something special

Lemonis is recruiting those B athletes that train themselves into having good metrics. Problem is that B level athletic ability don't play well in the SEC.

 

[HuntDawg]

Lemonis is recruiting those B athletes that train themselves into having good metrics. Problem is that B level athletic ability don't play well in the SEC.

at the SEC level.. shouldnt be very many B level players....

What lemonis is recruiting.... im not sure of... but we are swinging and missing big time in the portal.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

i dont disagree with all this... but there are many circumstances. I cant tell you many "athletes" that were very good at a younger age because they were athletes. The pitchers were throwing hard yet, the breaking stuff wasnt there yet.....

They didnt play any summer ball because they were football/baksetball players. While all the other kids were playing in the summer and honing their baseball skills... these kids never did that... and by the time they were in 9th/10th grade they had falling so far behind they've quit the game and focused on football and basketball.

There are some things about baseball that only comes with reps. Unless you see a 90+ mph a lot its going to be hard to hit it.. if you dont ever see a nasty breaking ball.. its going to be hard to hit it. If you dont play enough to know how to properly run the baseball and have a knack for when to go and when not to go... its going to difficult to get on the field if your local high school has a quality team.

There are plenty of those "B" type athletes that you explained.. that are gritty, all about the game, fundamentally sound, and know the game inside and out.. that will run circles around a team full of those type A athletes unless more than a few of those A types really blossom into something special

I think we're all getting to the same place in a different way. My take is this. I think a naturally athletic kid needs to be exposed to good, but not necessarily elite baseball before the age of 13 to make it. 13-15 is the window to get exposed to the best. If you don't get competitive then it's going to be too late.

Kids are puberting in that time and there are all kinds of changes happening. Little scrawny kids get stronger. Little chubby boys get tall and lean. Some of the kids that were always bigger and stronger don't grow as much and fall back to the middle. Then there's the grinders, those B athletes. They are now able to hit the weight room and catch up to those natural athletes in many ways.

As for the B athletes. The good, but not great natural athletes. Those are the kids that would benefit from travel ball from at 9-10 and up. The C and below athletes playing low levels of travel ball are the ones that probably should go fix the rec leagues that seem so broken in the south.


But if you give me the choice on one kid I get to develop as a 13 year old? The travel ball kid that's a great baseball player. Or the great athlete who needs to develop more at baseball, I'll take the athlete. At 15 I would reverse it. At 8? Who cares. Let them have fun and not make it to serious.

---

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I think we're all getting to the same place in a different way. My take is this. I think a naturally athletic kid needs to be exposed to good, but not necessarily elite baseball before the age of 13 to make it. 13-15 is the window to get exposed to the best. If you don't get competitive then it's going to be too late.

Kids are puberting in that time and there are all kinds of changes happening. Little scrawny kids get stronger. Little chubby boys get tall and lean. Some of the kids that were always bigger and stronger don't grow as much and fall back to the middle. Then there's the grinders, those B athletes. They are now able to hit the weight room and catch up to those natural athletes in many ways.

As for the B athletes. The good, but not great natural athletes. Those are the kids that would benefit from travel ball from at 9-10 and up. The C and below athletes playing low levels of travel ball are the ones that probably should go fix the rec leagues that seem so broken in the south.


But if you give me the choice on one kid I get to develop as a 13 year old? The travel ball kid that's a great baseball player. Or the great athlete who needs to develop more at baseball, I'll take the athlete. At 15 I would reverse it. At 8? Who cares. Let them have fun and not make it to serious.

---

In the South, pretty much everybody who is going to be any good has their kid playing by at least 7, most at 6. So those freak athletes falling through the cracks is minimized. Plus, once you make an all star team, travel teams come calling and most eventually give in to that. So it’s hard for many to get forgotten about unless they have real family problems. But everybody still knows who those kids are and they are at least still playing rec and guest playing somewhere.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

As for the B athletes. The good, but not great natural athletes. Those are the kids that would benefit from travel ball from at 9-10 and up. The C and below athletes playing low levels of travel ball are the ones that probably should go fix the rec leagues that seem so broken in the south.

---

To add to this.....which is a good point....the rec leagues are complicit in this. Most P&R directors don't care, they hand it completely off to parents, and they are beholden to the travel ball money.

Another big problem that nobody talks about much in baseball.....when you remove the good players, you remove the pitching......period. Rec ball today is a comedy of walks. Not to mention, since the parents want 'real baseball', you have leading off and stealing at 9U (the same year they START kid pitch most places). It's hard to even have a decent game in rec ball these days. They also have run maximums in the innings. It's crazy. I'm talking 9U-12U here. After that, who cares, players need competency to even be considered.

 

[HuntDawg]

To add to this.....which is a good point....the rec leagues are complicit in this. Most P&R directors don't care, they hand it completely off to parents, and they are beholden to the travel ball money.

Another big problem that nobody talks about much in baseball.....when you remove the good players, you remove the pitching......period. Rec ball today is a comedy of walks. Not to mention, since the parents want 'real baseball', you have leading off and stealing at 9U (the same year they START kid pitch most places). It's hard to even have a decent game in rec ball these days. They also have run maximums in the innings. It's crazy. I'm talking 9U-12U here. After that, who cares, players need competency to even be considered.

very true.

Rec ball is bad. Worst i've ever seen it. Everything you said is right. The pitching is awful and honestly on most teams you can walk the 1-2-3 hitters to load the bases and if you pitcher can throw a strike.. you'll strike out the 4-5-6 hitters with ease. Its that bad.

Which is why those middle tier kids are in such a bad position. Rec ball is so weak they get nothing out of it, but they despise the travel ball for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

very true.

Rec ball is bad. Worst i've ever seen it. Everything you said is right. The pitching is awful and honestly on most teams you can walk the 1-2-3 hitters to load the bases and if you pitcher can throw a strike.. you'll strike out the 4-5-6 hitters with ease. Its that bad.

Which is why those middle tier kids are in such a bad position. Rec ball is so weak they get nothing out of it, but they despise the travel ball for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.

Best thing I have seen in Rec type ball is this little rural Cal Ripken league in Central Idaho. 5-6 towns an hour or so apart with 1-4 teams per town. All playing each other. The just said 17it and turned 10u into machine pitch. Crank it up to 45-50 mph and let it go. By the time those kids get to 12u and up they can hit and field. Ball is constantly in play when they are younger.

These are not a big group of super athletic or talented kids, but man they have the fundamentals down. After watching my kid at 10u travel ball tournaments. I am huge fan of this strategy. The top 10u teams usually had 2-3 pitchers, but after that it was a walkathon. My kids coaches all but said don't swing until you have 2 strikes more often than not. Outside of the truly elite teams, I would take the pitching out of 9 and younger for sure. Probably most 10u.

That league is great. No music blaring from Dad's boombox. You get thrown out of the game if you wear any exposed jewelry. Warnings and games stopped for untucked shirts. Home team players take care of the field and clean up after ever game. It feels like the 80's in all right ways. None of those kids are going to go pro, but they have a blast and the whole towns will come out to watch 12u and 15u baseball like it's high school football.

It was very encouraging to see that stuff when you hear the horror stories about how bad it's gotten everywhere else.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

We're talking about different things. The complaint is with the Saturday/Sunday all-day model, with a possibility of 5 games usually in 2 days (if you win), and some days a few more.

I agree with you on travel ball itself. Playing better competition is usually always good. But I will stay that silo-ing the crappy kids off doesn't do much towards making them lifelong fans of the game. Somebody needs to pay the ticket prices.

Let me help yall out, that all day model of playing for some cheap *** ring ain't real travel ball, those are money makers for lesser talent kids and dumbass parents living their lives through their kids. They want them to be the local HS hero. The very large majority of people have no idea what real commitment to being great is, nor do they realize talent limitations of their kids.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

While we're solving the worlds problems. I think Cal Ripken vs Little League is superior in nearly every way... Except for one. The birth date cutoff. Why on earth you would make it April 30th is mind boggling. Its actually a leading cause of the holding back in school fiasco I imagine.

The argument I have heard is that it's to"align with the season. Bullshìt. The season starts in early March and the teams are formed in August for the next season. Some dad decades ago had a kid with a May or June birthday and wanted to give them and advantage. But by middle school you have 8th graders who grew up playing with 7th graders now and they are actually behind the kids in their grade because they're effectively playing down.

I believe Little League is still September 1 which is tied to school age. When I grew up it was always that way. I have a summer birthday and graduated at 17. Its just so tiny dìcked of these parents that hold their kids back because of sports. I feel like the "he wants to play with his friends" excuse is bolstered by the April 30 cutoff.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Best thing I have seen in Rec type ball is this little rural Cal Ripken league in Central Idaho. 5-6 towns an hour or so apart with 1-4 teams per town. All playing each other. The just said 17it and turned 10u into machine pitch. Crank it up to 45-50 mph and let it go. By the time those kids get to 12u and up they can hit and field. Ball is constantly in play when they are younger.

These are not a big group of super athletic or talented kids, but man they have the fundamentals down. After watching my kid at 10u travel ball tournaments. I am huge fan of this strategy. The top 10u teams usually had 2-3 pitchers, but after that it was a walkathon. My kids coaches all but said don't swing until you have 2 strikes more often than not. Outside of the truly elite teams, I would take the pitching out of 9 and younger for sure. Probably most 10u.

That league is great. No music blaring from Dad's boombox. You get thrown out of the game if you wear any exposed jewelry. Warnings and games stopped for untucked shirts. Home team players take care of the field and clean up after ever game. It feels like the 80's in all right ways. None of those kids are going to go pro, but they have a blast and the whole towns will come out to watch 12u and 15u baseball like it's high school football.

It was very encouraging to see that stuff when you hear the horror stories about how bad it's gotten everywhere else.

For the longest time I was against machine pitch because 'hey the kids gotta pitch right'. Then one day it dawned on me that it was about having a functional game......and secondly, saving kids arms. Now I think they definitely need to be doing it through 10U. And I also think up to 12U ought to have no stealing until the ball hits the mitt or passed balls.

 

[HuntDawg]

I disagree... thats the problem with public schools we have a group struggling so we are going to penalize the top half of the group so the bottom half can catch up...but the reality is the bottom half doesnt really want to catch up.. they just want the same A that the top half is getting without doing the work

all using a machine and not letting people lead off is doing is dumbing the game down so that people that arent dedicated to the game can play it.... and passing the buck to the next guy who'll eventaully have to deal with the fact that they needed to get better at a younger age instead of having coaches and leagues dumb the game down for them so they could be successful.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I disagree... thats the problem with public schools we have a group struggling so we are going to penalize the top half of the group so the bottom half can catch up...but the reality is the bottom half doesnt really want to catch up.. they just want the same A that the top half is getting without doing the work

all using a machine and not letting people lead off is doing is dumbing the game down so that people that arent dedicated to the game can play it.... and passing the buck to the next guy who'll eventaully have to deal with the fact that they needed to get better at a younger age instead of having coaches and leagues dumb the game down for them so they could be successful.

Learning fake pick-off moves at 9U isn't teaching baseball. They need to be hitting and fielding at that age, really all the way through 12U. Not being about to hit and throw strikes is what chases the most kids out of baseball, not because they couldn't hold a runner. Plenty of time to learn pick-offs and all that other stuff.

And no one is saying you can't have travel ball with whatever rules you want. Machine pitch would be for rec ball - i.e., the baseline at the bottom. Heck I bet you'd see a lot more travel ball kids also playing rec ball if you eliminate the arm strain.

 

[HuntDawg]

Learning fake pick-off moves at 9U isn't teaching baseball. They need to be hitting and fielding at that age, really all the way through 12U. Not being about to hit and throw strikes is what chases the most kids out of baseball, not because they couldn't hold a runner. Plenty of time to learn pick-offs and all that other stuff.

And no one is saying you can't have travel ball with whatever rules you want. Machine pitch would be for rec ball - i.e., the baseline at the bottom. Heck I bet you'd see a lot more travel ball kids also playing rec ball if you eliminate the arm strain.

most leagues ive been around have at least 2 years of kid pitch where there are no leads and runners cant steal before the ball hits the mitt. Thats generally 9 and 10. Then it gradually increases to leads and such at 11 and 12.... so there is a progression.

I do get what your saying.. but i disagree with it... again there are boxes that need to be checked at every age in just about all things. You know what is coming up next and what you need to do to be successful or attain whatever goal you want at said level. Go work at it and get better... lets not start changing the playing field so a group that doesnt care much to begin with... can earn false hope.

Its just like those public schools that hand out A's to kids.. then their ACT score comes back and its an 18... how much is that A really worth if all your making is a 18 on the ACT