This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

[PosterFormerlyKnownAsRFAA]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

You are not stating your opinion. You are simply making an incorrect statement.

For example:

In my opinion, this board has gone downhill and has been in need of a purge for a long *** time!

Damn, look at that. I try stating an opinion and state a fact. Oops...

 

[hotdogface9]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

I would not call LSU's offense a pure spread offense. Granted, they run elements of the spread, but it is a far, far cry from Texas Tech, UF, West Va.,Ill., or any of the other schools that consistently spread the field and have never heard of a fullback. Seriously, spend some quality time on youtube or watch a grainy replay on CSS.

 

[saltybulldog]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

Outside of the spread, what do most, if not all, of the teams Hester34 listed have? Very -very, very talented QBs and/or WRs.

The only major exception could be TTech. USC doesnt run the spread. Texas doesnt use it much since Vince Young left. LSU uses it some, but I dont think thats the point.

The goal should be to run an offense that fits the personnel you have or the personnel you are able to recruit consistently. Croom's problem isnt that he doesnt run the spread so much as its the fact that he trys to make players fit the WCO.

 

[studentdawg87]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

Its not like states like Oregon, Kansas, Missouri, and West Virginia are bastions of D1 talent, the coaches at those schools just don't offer every 5'11'' weak armed QB that wants to play there, they find players from somewhere that fit their system.

 

[bonedaddy401]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

This is true but where are you going to find 4 to 6 guys that can catch AND block? We may have the guys to run around and toss it like mad men but we can't even find two decent receivers in the whole state much less enough to fully stock a spread offense. Not that they are can't be found in Mississippi, but they can't QUALIFY in Mississippi.

I have never said that Croom is going to find everyone he needs to run his WCO. I personally think we need to stock up on the big boys and grind it out.

 

[RebelBruiser]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

My only question is, if the defenses always catch up, then doesn't that mean you always have to stay ahead of the curve with offensive innovation? Which at this point would mean you'd be running some form of spread, not an offense like the West Coast Offense or the Pro Style offense that were popularized in the 80s and 90s. It would stand to reason that those offenses would naturally be less effective than the ones currently on the cutting edge.

Edited to add: I really don't think it's ever about an offensive scheme. I think the best offensive minds are the ones that can change their system to adapt to their personnel. Croom is not one of those guys. He's running the WCO no matter what his personnel looks like. That's fine at the pro level where you have a lot more influence over what type of players you get. In college however, you have to be able to adapt. That's what Tubberville is doing at Auburn. He even went so far as to change OCs so he could go from a pro style offense with Brandon Cox to a spread option with Kodi Burns. That's the way you have success offensively at the college level.

I'll also add that part of the reason the spread is such a good offense is that it allows you to quickly and easily make changes to adapt to your personnel. You can run multiple variations of the same offense to match different QBs, different RBs, etc. With the WCO and most other offenses out there, you have that one system, and it's not very adaptable.

 

[HD6]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

that Texas Tech and their ilk have been doing this for a long time with receivers who never even sniff the NFL. Outside of Wes Welker, I can't think of one of those type guys in the pros. Yeah, you luck up every now and then and get a Michael Crabtree, but the whole point of the spread is to equalize the playing field between super power and lesser teams.

You don't think the guys we'll have next year, plus Patterson, Bumphis, and Thames (hopefully on the last two) couldn't be part of that offense?

 

[HD6]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

to Joe Lee Dunn. His defense works great when you have Robert Bean and Fred Smoot. Without them, not so much.

If we had run the WVU offense from day one, Connor and Norwood would have been a lot of fun to watch.

 

[RebelBruiser]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

to Joe Lee Dunn. His defense works great when you have Robert Bean and Fred Smoot. Without them, not so much.

If we had run the WVU offense from day one, Connor and Norwood would have been a lot of fun to watch.

I agree about Conner, and I also think the same about Brent Schaeffer and possibly even Spurlock. All of those QBs would've probably had at least some success in a run based spread option using misdirection that didn't force them to rely so much on having an accurate arm. And that's what I'm talking about. All of those QBs played under coaches that ran a particular system that they couldn't adapt. You put any of them under a coach that was able to adapt his offense, and they'd all have been much better.

Pat White for example would probably suck in the West Coast Offense. He's a Heisman candidate in the spread option.

 

[bonedaddy401]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

True true....

Who are we going to have QB that **** show?
I like the idea but I just don't think the spread would be conducive to the type of athlete we attract to MSU. Texas Tech recruits in Texas. Hell, Houston has more people than Mississippi could ever dream of having.

 

[HD6]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

look aGAIN at Texas Tech. None of their quarterbacks were high draft choices. Plus, it's pretty easy to recruit an above average QB when you tell them we're throwing it 50 times a game.

I say aGAIN, the purpose of running the spread is that you can move the ball without All-American talent across the board.

 

[bonedaddy401]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

Do you think that Texas Tech could win 7 games in the SEC?

 

[Todd4State]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

he wants to run the WCO, but he never seems to understand that the WCO should be centered around a smart, accurate passing QB, with a little bit of mobility, not a running back. When he got here, instead of getting Henig, he should have gone to California and gotten one of their leftover QB's- and there are PLENTY there. We wouldn't have gotten a Matt Leinart, but we certainly would have gotten someone adequate. Croom continually talks about establishing the run with the WCO, but I once heard Bill Walsh himself say that with the WCO you should use the pass to get ahead and then run to stay there.

Think about it- who are the guys that made the WCO famous in terms of players- Dan Fouts, Joe Montana, Steve Young, John Elway (with Shanahan), the immortal Brett Favre. What do all of those players have in common besides being Hall of Famers? That's right. They're QB's.

Now think about the RB's on those teams. Roger Craig, Dorsey Levens, Terrell Davis, Ricky Watters- other than Davis those are guys that could catch the ball out of the backfield and were mainly parts of the offense rather than what the offense was built around. Even with a guy like Jerry Rice the 49ers always wanted to spread the ball around to all of their playmakers. That means that the QB has to spread it around to the skill players- very similar to a point guard in basketball. The WCO is NOT designed to be an exclusive power running scheme.

USC probably runs the WCO the best among college teams- they also had QB's that were drafted by the NFL since Pete Carroll has been there- Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart, and John David Booty. Even though they had people like Reggie Bush and Mike Williams at WR, they had to have someone to distribute the ball around.

 

[HD6]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

If you gave them our schedule, they'd win all of the non-conference games, they'd beat Vandy, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Arkansas, and maybe Auburn.

 

[Todd4State]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

Do you think that Texas Tech could win 7 games in the SEC?

they did beat Ole Miss twice- with Eli. For whatever that's worth.

I don't know how a spread team like that would do in the SEC to be honest. I know that UGA destroyed Hawaii, and Bama has beaten Hawaii- with help from the officials.

UF's Fun and Gun was somewhat similar- again they had great athletes, and UK liked to throw it a lot with Mumme, although those weren't true spread teams like today, but they were precursors.

I guess it depends on the school. UF could run the flying wedge and probably make the Peach Bowl.

 

[bonedaddy401]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

Damn it I have to agree with you on that.

I for one think we win those games also with our current offense.

The spread would be interesting here but I don't think we will ever see it implemented.

 

[jamdawg96]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

some cocaine all over a table and snort it until your heart stops beating the better my Wednesday night will be.

 

[lannsd]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

I suspect I've played more football than you've thought of, but who knows.

I suspect you haven't. No, I know you haven't. Otherwise you wouldn't think a team has to look like WV to be running the spread. I wonder what offense Hawaii and Texas Tech has been running all these years? They sure as hell don't look like WV. Idiot.

 

[saddawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a "fad"..

Do you think that Texas Tech could win 7 games in the SEC?

UF's Fun and Gun was somewhat similar- again they had great athletes, and <span style="font-weight: bold;">UK liked to throw it a lot with Mumme, although those weren't true spread teams like today, but they were precursors.</span>

Proves my point awhile back that you know **** about football. Mumme, at UK is one of the fathers of the spread. Leach is a Mumme clone. He was his OC. Franklin at Auburn, is a Mumme clone. Hatcher at Ga. Southern is a Mumme clone. They all coached and learned the spread under Mumme.

 

[studentdawg87]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

There is no reason the spread couldn't be sucessfully run in Mississippi. We produce plenty of athletes that would fit better in some form of the spread than in the damn WCO. Fedora will probably do really well at Southern with half the talent we have. The problem is Croom is too damn stubborn to adapt to his personnel, Omar Conner was never going to become a drop-back passer. The spread is designed to maximize your talent level which is what we need since LSU, Florida, and etc are always going to have more talent than us. Croom needs to accept the fact that his offense sucks and bring in a coordinator who is allowed to run his own system.

 

[saddawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

Why do you think USC runs the WCO?

I explained to you the other day, they run a vertical passing game. Watch USC. Record one of their games. Record State or Croom's mentor at Texas A&M and notice the differences, in routes, blocking, and formations. Just because they are in So.Cal, doesn't mean they are running the WCO. Nuhiesel, a WCO guy in the pros, has said you can't run basically what Croom is running in the college game. Rick has put up big offensive numbers in college before. Croom has put up ****** ones. I'll go with Rick. He will get the ball down the field.

WCO is about the passing game. Every body pretty much runs the same running plays(Lead, trap,power,zone and maybe a little counter trey)in college, except true option or veer teams.

Croom wants to run the dink and dump passing game. Look how many times our WRs catch the ball with their back to the goal line. For State's, or any body else's, offense to be explosive, you have to catch a bunch running TOWARD the goal line.

 

[davatron]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

<span class="sense_content">noun
a practice or interest followed for a time with exaggerated zeal

So yes, the spread is a fad by very definition. Have a nice day.
</span>

 

[Todd4State]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

off of a quote that Leach himself said, which paraphrased is he wanted to open up the offense more at UK but Mumme wouldn't let him. If you remember UK under Mumme utilized the TE more than Texas Tech (do they even have TE's on their roster?) does now. I remember UK had that TE that caught something like 9 passes against us, and I think he ended up with the Cowboys for a short time, but I can't remember his name.

 

[Todd4State]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

under West coast offense:

At the college level, LaVell Edwards and Dewey Warren created an offensive system similar to the West Coast Offense at Brigham Young University (BYU) in 1973[3] This offense culminated in a NCAA Division I-A national football championship for BYU in 1984 and a Heisman Trophy for Ty Detmer in 1990. BYU broke over 100 NCAA records for passing and total offense during Edwards' tenure. Several coaches and players associated with BYU's football program had success with this offense at BYU and elsewhere including: Mike Holmgren, Andy Reid, Brian Billick, Ted Tollner, Doug Scovil, Norm Chow, Jim McMahon, Steve Young, Ty Detmer, and Steve Sarkisian among others. The reason for the success in this version of the offense is that it cuts down on complexity. Norm Chow says offenses have around 12 basic pass plays and 5 basic run plays (with screens)--those plays are run from many formations, with plays tagged for a little versatility, so that the players know the offense by the second day of practice. Former Pittsburgh and Stanford head coach Walt Harris also used a variation of the West Coast Offense during his stint at Pittsburgh.

Since we're splitting hairs on the variations of the spread, I think it's fair that we can split hairs on variations of the West Coast offense. I know this talks about BYU, but this is what Sarkisian at USC runs, and now that Chow is at UCLA, is probably what they will run to. You are right they do run a vertical passing attack, and you are also right that this variation is different from Croom's. In my opinion, we should be running the Chow/BYU version becuase it has been proven successful at the collegiate level and it is significantly easier to learn. And as you said, the USC version is also much more aggressive in terms of attacking downfield.

 

[DowntownDawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

...you know with his stellar .435 winning percentage and those 2.5 league wins per year. Oh, and don't forget the time that they gave up 177 total points to UT, UF, and LSU. That's exactly what we need to do. Bring back Ron Cooper, baby!

Idiot.

 

[saddawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

I didn't say we needed Mumme. I said he was one of the originators of the spread.

 

[DowntownDawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

Croom wants to run the dink and dump passing game. Look how many times our WRs catch the ball with their back to the goal line. For State's, or any body else's, offense to be explosive, you have to catch a bunch running TOWARD the goal line.

I think I am dumber for having read that. Forget the concept of the first down. If it's 3rd and 5, and we throw a 7 yard curl route to the tight end, throw that crap out. His back was to the goal line. Throw out crossing patterns, curls and out routes. Throw out pretty much anything to the tight end. If it's not a fly, slant, or post, it's no good. Right Sad? We need to run more of those fades to people like Lance Long like we did last year. Do you think it has anything to do with our quarterback's pitiful arm strength last year?

I'll take a first down anyway I can get it in this offense. Are you drunk already this morning?

 

[dogfan96]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

USC definitely runs a WCO.. they throw the ball to their backs and TEs more than the WRs almost.. of course they throw the ball down the field sometimes... everybody does. However, the majority of their passes are of the short variety allowing the WRs to make a run after the catch.

 

[DowntownDawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

who should and shouldn't speak, is how we need to run the spread. How the spread will mean instant success, an end to poverty, and peace in the middle east. You mean to tell me that the spread did not equal ultimate football success at a school with very little football tradition? I can't imagine that.

 

[RebelBruiser]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

...you know with his stellar .435 winning percentage and those 2.5 league wins per year. Oh, and don't forget the time that they gave up 177 total points to UT, UF, and LSU. That's exactly what we need to do. Bring back Ron Cooper, baby!

Idiot.

I'm pretty sure that you'd be happy if Mumme was your OC (at least happier than you are right now with McCorvey). The discussion was about offense. Mumme always had offenses that performed well. He wasn't a winner though because he couldn't put together any defense to go with it. If you could take his offense and pair it with a solid defense, then you'd really have something. Bringing up Mumme's defenses as a way to attack his offensive system is not a very good argument. Bill Callahan at Nebraska did a pretty good job of putting up points, and he is a solid offensive mind. However, he lost games because he couldn't assemble anything close to a defense. However, that doesn't change the fact that he'd be a great hire if he could focus solely on offense.

For me personally, I don't care what system you run, as long as it works, and as long as you're able to make changes within the system to keep it working regardless of your personnel. I think that's everyone's main gripe. They're wanting to see anything other than the WCO because it isn't working for Croom.

 

[saddawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

ignorance is astounding.

No, Mr. Star Wars nerd, you can't throw it deep every play. You also can't throw the 5 yd hitch and 5 yd out every play. If you paid attention to what is actually going on on the field, you would see that for the last 4 years, other teams are jumping the underneath stuff. We rarely send a WR down the field at all, even as a decoy. When 3 people are always running 5-10 yard patterns, it's easy to defend.
I was at a coaching clinic 3 years ago in Miami and Auburns defensive coaches were speaking. Their cut ups were on the State game that year. Of course, every play Auburn dominated State's offense. One of the coaches said while showing a certain set,(I'm paraphrasing)

" Now we all know no way is perfect, but if you get a team as easy to scout and prepare for as Mississippi State, this set
is really all you need. We ran this 90% of the game. We only got out of it on 3rd and long and in short yardage situations."

I asked him later in a break out session to tell what he meant by " easy to prepare for."

He said " Well, they almost never throw down the field. Hell, they don't even SEND anybody down the field."

As for your 1st downs,Croom racks up alot of those, doesn't he?

And for the record, I never said people shouldn't talk football on here, even if they don't know **** about football.(like you)

I said I got annoyed by people that don't know ****(like you) trying to educate somebody that does.

I bet if I wanted to know what planet Luke was born on or who Jabba the Hut's daddy was, you would know. You could educate me on that ****.

 

[DowntownDawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

Bringing up Mumme's defenses as a way to attack his offensive system is not a very good argument.

But what all of these spread worshipers don't seem to understand, and what I have posted on here a million times, is that it's all related. Running Mumme's offense puts up points. It also lengthens the game because there are tons of short passes, and more incompletions. Lengthening the games is usually bad for teams with less talent, because over time, superior talent usually win. It also creates the opportunity for more turnovers since the ball is being thrown more. All of this impacts the defense, and causes the defense to have to battle up hill. Longer games + more turnovers = worse defense.

Go back and watch the last half of 2006. We essentially ran 5 wides alot. We threw it out of the shotgun. We scored points. We still lost.

It's about having good players and good coaches, and less about scheme.

 

[TR.sixpack]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

he never seems to understand that the WCO should be centered around a smart, accurate passing QB, with a little bit of mobility, not a running back.

That's easier said than done. Notice our best pro-style QB <span style="font-style: italic;">recruit</span> since Todd Jordan, happened AFTER an 8-4 season. What QB worth his salt would take a flyer on a perennial 3 win team?

When he got here, instead of getting Henig, he should have gone to California and gotten one of their leftover QB's- and there are PLENTY there

Who said he didn't try? I remember people bitching about spending too much time in California recruiting.

That said, Croom should've taylored the Offense around Omarr Conner's strengths. Hopefully Tyler Russell will be that WCO we've needed for years now.

 

[RebelBruiser]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

I actually agree with some of what you're saying there. My whole argument for both offense and defense is that you can't just run a system in college and try to fit your personnel to that system. You have to try to fit your system to your personnel.

Croom, along with the majority of college coaches, runs a system and tries to fit his personnel to that system. That's only going to work when you either have the ability to stockpile superior talent or you have the ability to basically hand pick the players you want.

If you can't do that, you're better off adapting your system to your talent. Very few coaches are really good at doing that, but the ones that are good at it will always have a job.

 

[saddawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

why I think ya'll got a good one in Nutt.

He adapts to the players he has. Nutt will do whatever to score points.

And that's all you can ask of any coach.

 

[dogfan96]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

he uses his RBs, who are usually the strength of his team.. and even when he had Matt Jones, he was still more of a running threat than a passing threat.. I just don't think Nutt has a good understanding of the passing game on this level so he keeps it really simple or abandons it altogether.. and he tosses in a trick play now and then.

 

[saddawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

Yeah, they threw like **** against us last year, didn't they?

Nutt will do what it takes to score.

 

[DowntownDawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

...between those teams a few years ago. We got creamed because we never tried to throw long on them.

And I'm not saying we shouldn't throw deep more, but I really don't care how we get first downs or complete passes, as long as it happens, and no it doesn't happen near enough, but I have seen enough of Carroll trying to throw it deep to know that that's not a high percentage play.

And you'll never live down your "Peaches and I know more about football than anybody else" post. That's one of the most ridiculous things anybody has ever posted on this board.

 

[DowntownDawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

...that is Nutt's greatest strength, even greater than his motivational style. He adapts his offense to what he's got. I wish we could say the same about our coach.

 

[saddawg]

This one is for Croom and others who say the Spread is a &quot;fad&quot;..

I don't know more than everybody. I never said that.

I know good and goddamn well, however, I know more than you , or Todd, about it.