That's actually a good question. Problem is that once it sets in that PSU won't contend for championships, recruiting will deteriorate. At that point, both the ceiling and floor lower. How long does it take? No idea.
Under the current recruiting and coaching, do we all agree that 10-2 is the absolute ceiling?
- Thread starter BrucePa
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Offensive line recruiting is often a crap shoot. Probably is the hardest position to project for kids coming out of HS. Trouble with this staff is that not only do they not seem to frequently recruit many 4/5 star linemen, they don't seem very successful in developing them.
Why does everyone assume we will win the last 4? Equally possible to be 2-2.
Wasn't assuming. Was just a comment for those saying 10-2 would be an empty season without wins over osu or um.
Should have said a lot of fans. I remember that Pinstripe Bowl looked pretty exciting after the no bowl drought.
Most baseball fans thought the Dodgers, Braves or Mets would be in the World Series, those fan bases are fairly disappointed to say the least.
What an idiotic characterization of Heisman trophy contender Stroud. I can't ever remember OSU having a "mediocre QB!"
You must be young. They have a long history of mediocre QBs, just not recently. In fact, one of them can be seen on the Gameday set every Saturday morning.
I’d take Day for HC in a NY minute
The talent in college football is not evenly divided among teams. As a PSU fan on Saturday I was excited about the Lions effort, but when you get behind late in the game against teams like OSU that has more talent ,the pressure to win causes risks and poor execution., thus a lopsided fouth quater. A 2 or 3 loss season is respectable,
Doesn't matter what they eventually do or don't do, kid is a stud College QB and all that matters.
It also seems like we lack getting those hungry 3 star recruits who have something to prove, who strive to get better etc. maybe I’m wrong, but it just seems like that has gone by the wayside.
Not sure if anyone remembers when JoePa stated during a poor season that he was 2-3 players away from having a good team and at that time it was hard to accept that statement. He did turn it around with a couple of key recruits. I believe we need a couple of players on both side of the lines to win the Big Ten championship in the future. We are 6-2 and could be 10-2 at the end of the season (maybe 9-3). I would say that would be a big improvement from last year with such a young team.
Overall, we recruit on the same level as UM. Our struggles have been losing out on some of our top OL and DL targets and, until Allar, our top QB targets.
Michigan, however, has put together a system that they now really work well within and develop their players to it—they know their identity particularly on offense. PSU still has question marks in that area and I think we've seen the difference these past two seasons.
I would say yes at this point 10-2 is the ceiling. JF does have a chance to change that. He has the #1 recruits for QB and RB on the roster and some very good OL coming in. They do have a chance to be very good. To me they need to also bring in big DL in the middle. Until he proves he can do it, 10-2 is the ceiling. Question is are the administration, alumni, students, fans good with that? It's big money he is making, comes down to what people think is a successful program.
the jury is out on cj stroud. i do not doubt the guys talent. he made some tight window throws on saturday that were indeed impressive. my concern with stroud is the same that it was for fields. they have so much talent, guys usually are super wide open, you almost never see an ohio state qb throw guys open or consistently hit that guy who's only open by 1 yard, which in the nfl is wide open. watch the highlights, he is throwing to guys who are 3-5 yards wide open every play. also have concerns about whether he can read a defense and go through progressions because (and it was a super small sample) on saturday he locked onto the primary guy on every play whether it was 18 (most of the time) or #8. these are things that will get exposed at the next level.
i do have concerns, actually with both he and bryce young. personally would not touch either of them in the top 5 because the question is are they really that good or are they this prolific based on just having more talent around them than other guys?
i do have concerns, actually with both he and bryce young. personally would not touch either of them in the top 5 because the question is are they really that good or are they this prolific based on just having more talent around them than other guys?
I did not mean to imply he’s not a good coach…just that he hasn’t taken them over the top yet. He literally has everything he needs to do so, so until he does, he’s still an unproven commodity.
Why not assume 4-0 playing against 4 teams we're better than? Why look for reasons to prematurely mope?
I have to disagree with the original premise of this thread. The ceiling is 10-2 with a QB like Clifford. But we knew that going in to the season. Penn State can exceed 10-2 with a high-level QB and the current coaching and recruiting. Allar may be that QB, and many programs would have given him the reigns before now.
T
The bigger question…is there anyone out there who can do better that we could get? The answer to the first part of the question is maybe three or four guys….the answer to the second question is we ain’t getting any of those guys.
The good news is that in 4 years (maybe sooner), a 10-2 record could still get you into the tournament. The not-so-good news is that by that time, Franklin's game management may not improve. As much as we dislike his game results, etc, we do have to be careful not to become a Nebraska where we run off a coach that can win 9-10 games a year in place of a series of misfits causing us to wish for a 9-win season. Now...Nebraska has a lot more challenges when it comes to recruiting but who's to say that new staffs wouldn't lead us down that same road? But again, someday, 10-2 will be good enough and then we'll get to rail on Franklin for never being able to get out of the first round, despite having home games (won't that be wild if it happens -- a playoff game in December in Beaver Stadium?).
Tend to agree with you in general Midnighter about QB's from top tier teams (definitely including OSU) not necessarily panning out in the NFL since their college evaluation was skewed by their college team's overwhelming talent. Nevertheless, while JT Barrett and Haskins did accumulate a lot of passing yards by throwing to wide open receivers and by their receivers winning more 50/50 balls than not, Stroud made some throws on Saturday that those 2 probably would not have successfully made...the throw to Egbeku when Dixon actually had decent coverage is one example. As another example, was Harrison WIDE open on all of his countless receptions or was the ball repeatedly well-placed such that even a tight window was sufficient for a completion due to Harrison's hands? Also, unlike other recent OSU QB's, Stroud does not seem to be a run-first QB that works in college but not in the pros. That said, in the first half when PSU actually got pressure, Stroud certainly did not seem to be nearly as efficient and looked rattled and beatable, although that can be said of most QB's under pressure with very few exceptions.
Ironically CJF gets roasted for mentioning things like that, as if it has no impact on wins and losses...when it clearly DOES.
This ties into the post below:
He does NOT have total control of all things that attract 5* OL and DL talent...he has some control, early talent identification, relationships, wins and losses on the field, putting linemen in the league, etc., but ultimately that isn't necessarily enough
In many instances such prospects don't even have PSU on the radar and despite his best efforts he has had to settle for plan B (or lower) prospects. For example Bresee would look great starting next to Mustipher on the DL...but despite pleasantries and an apparent good relationship he chose elsewhere. Would a couple players such as that have made the difference between a W and an L last weekend? Chicken or the egg?
How would the above referenced OSU 13 million that Bkmtnittany1 mentions above impact the potential to land a 5* OT that CJF and staff have been courting for quite some time? Perhaps nobody knows, but if such a prospect would choose elsewhere due to NIL opportunities how is it "whining about recruiting" if the plan B is a 3-star developmental project with less athleticism and upside?
So if your son is a 5* and PSU offers him and he likes the school, but LSU comes in and says here 50k a year, you would be nuts if you did not tell him to take the $. Remember… this isn’t CFB anymore. It is NFL Lite!Ironically CJF gets roasted for mentioning things like that, as if it has no impact on wins and losses...when it clearly DOES.
This ties into the post below:
He does NOT have total control of all things that attract 5* OL and DL talent...he has some control, early talent identification, relationships, wins and losses on the field, putting linemen in the league, etc., but ultimately that isn't necessarily enough
In many instances such prospects don't even have PSU on the radar and despite his best efforts he has had to settle for plan B (or lower) prospects. For example Bresee would look great starting next to Mustipher on the DL...but despite pleasantries and an apparent good relationship he chose elsewhere. Would a couple players such as that have made the difference between a W and an L last weekend? Chicken or the egg?
How would the above referenced OSU 13 million that Bkmtnittany1 mentions above impact the potential to land a 5* OT that CJF and staff have been courting for quite some time? Perhaps nobody knows, but if such a prospect would choose elsewhere due to NIL opportunities how is it "whining about recruiting" if the plan B is a 3-star developmental project with less athleticism and upside?
Right now, Penn State is Notre Dame. They both get clobberated by quality opponents, while pounding away at the rest of their cupcake schedules.
not true NFL lite, please. The NFL has a salary cap!!! College football does not!!!
Day said he needed $13mm. Not abundantly clear he got it.Ironically CJF gets roasted for mentioning things like that, as if it has no impact on wins and losses...when it clearly DOES.
This ties into the post below:
He does NOT have total control of all things that attract 5* OL and DL talent...he has some control, early talent identification, relationships, wins and losses on the field, putting linemen in the league, etc., but ultimately that isn't necessarily enough
In many instances such prospects don't even have PSU on the radar and despite his best efforts he has had to settle for plan B (or lower) prospects. For example Bresee would look great starting next to Mustipher on the DL...but despite pleasantries and an apparent good relationship he chose elsewhere. Would a couple players such as that have made the difference between a W and an L last weekend? Chicken or the egg?
How would the above referenced OSU 13 million that Bkmtnittany1 mentions above impact the potential to land a 5* OT that CJF and staff have been courting for quite some time? Perhaps nobody knows, but if such a prospect would choose elsewhere due to NIL opportunities how is it "whining about recruiting" if the plan B is a 3-star developmental project with less athleticism and upside?
As for not getting recruits, there are factors within Franklin's control. Sure, there are a lot of prospects that don't consider PSU for geographic or affinity reasons. Thedre are slo thos who don't because competing programs win championships and put more guys into the NFL. I don't think QBs from California choose OSU and Bama for geographic reasons, particularly one with family in the Philadelphia area.
5* OL and DL talent. How is this not obvious? Get a Jeff Stoutland type in here and look out. Otherwise, more of the same.
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