Very interesting read about Sandusky's case

[bdgan]

I shouldn’t have bothered.
He wasn’t just showering alone with the unrelated boy with whom he was working in his role as a community agency mentor (unfathomable to anybody that has worked in such a role), but he had physical contact with him. Give him a pass if you wish, but there is absolutely no reason to do so.

I'm the one who shouldn't have bothered.

I happen to agree with you that TSM should have never allowed JS or anybody else have one on one contact with troubled youth. I'm not even talking about sexual harassment. One on one contact is unacceptable and allowing it is asking for trouble. I assume the only reason the school let Jerry pick the boy up is because the kid's mother said it was OK.

But now to the sexual assault issue. All I said was that for a person Jerry's age it wasn't out of the ordinary for adults and children to be together in community showers. I recall being in one with my coach. IMO that mere fact doesn't constitute sexual assault. Yes it's unusual because Jerry wasn't the kid's father but I think the boy and his mother considered Jerry to be something of a father figure. Therefore I am willing to give Jerry the benefit of the doubt that nothing extremely egregious occurred in 1998, especially since investigator John Seasock concluded there was no concrete evidence of sexual assault and that Sandusky just needs to be taught boundaries.

HOWEVER, I think that event should have been a wakeup call for Jerry that would have motivated him to be much more cautious going forward. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case so from that point forward I can no longer give him the benefit of the doubt.

You seem convinced that sexual assault clearly occurred in 1998 and that I'm a fool for not accepting that as a fact.

 

[Colt2169]

This isn’t meant as a defense of JS, but a whole lot of people from different agencies/authorities gave JS a pass in ‘98. Not only for that, but for at least another shower occurrence with another youngster.

They then conveyed the information that no crime was committed to Schultz.

To top it off, my understanding is that one of the agencies didn’t even need to charge JS with a crime to hinder his access to kids by just giving him a certain designation. Someone whose job it is to look after the safety of children felt it wasn’t necessary.

Yes that is true - simply filing an “Indicated” report would have ended it all

 

[bdgan]

That was the unfortunate part in all of this....the media mob mentality wanted to burn everything down. One man did this and he was a great groomer who disguised himself as the great family public servant. Put Jerry in a Priest outfit and you never ever hear about it other than another priest was molesting kids. The media made it about everyone at PSU besides Jerry. Joe had his kids at Jerry's house, you don't do that as a parent knowing what we know now. I get the outrage due to the crimes, but the focus needed to be on one man. People miss the signals all the time with predators like Jerry because they make themselves out to be saints.

My major issue with certain folks on the old site was the doxing of his victims prior to the names being out there, driving by the victims homes, and demonizing them as if it was their fault Jerry used kids from broken homes. It was very odd and most of it IMO was due to people being upset Joe was dragged through the mud too...didn't make it right. It was severely misguided IMO.

I agree that JS seems to have been a great groomer who fooled a lot of people. I'll also point out that lots of alleged victims of Nassar at MSU complained directly to school administrators. That wasn't the case at PSU yet it's the PSU administrators who got in trouble. There certainly seems to be a double standard, probably because MSU BOT fought to defend the university while PSU BOT was quick to throw 4 people under the bus.

P.S. I DO blame PSU administrators for handing MM's report about JS informally. Nearly all large institutions have a whistleblower policy where complaints and responses are documented. If PSU had done that there wouldn't be any question about exactly what MM told C&S and we would know how the decision was made not to report to CPS. Shame on the administrators, but that doesn't mean that they knowingly allowed JS to sexually assault boys.

 

[Colt2169]

McQueary had nothing to do with ‘98. I’m just talking about ‘98.

‘98 should have ended it
Who screwed that up

 

[Colt2169]

I agree that JS seems to have been a great groomer who fooled a lot of people. I'll also point out that lots of alleged victims of Nassar at MSU complained directly to school administrators. That wasn't the case at PSU yet it's the PSU administrators who got in trouble. There certainly seems to be a double standard, probably because MSU BOT fought to defend the university while PSU BOT was quick to throw 4 people under the bus.

P.S. I DO blame PSU administrators for handing MM's report about JS informally. Nearly all large institutions have a whistleblower policy where complaints and responses are documented. If PSU had done that there wouldn't be any question about exactly what MM told C&S and we would know how the decision was made not to report to CPS. Shame on the administrators, but that doesn't mean that they knowingly allowed JS to sexually assault boys.

Issue at that point was second mile’s - they screwed up

 

[Connorpozlee]

I'm the one who shouldn't have bothered.

I happen to agree with you that TSM should have never allowed JS or anybody else have one on one contact with troubled youth. I'm not even talking about sexual harassment. One on one contact is unacceptable and allowing it is asking for trouble. I assume the only reason the school let Jerry pick the boy up is because the kid's mother said it was OK.

But now to the sexual assault issue. All I said was that for a person Jerry's age it wasn't out of the ordinary for adults and children to be together in community showers. I recall being in one with my coach. IMO that mere fact doesn't constitute sexual assault. Yes it's unusual because Jerry wasn't the kid's father but I think the boy and his mother considered Jerry to be something of a father figure. Therefore I am willing to give Jerry the benefit of the doubt that nothing extremely egregious occurred in 1998, especially since investigator John Seasock concluded there was no concrete evidence of sexual assault and that Sandusky just needs to be taught boundaries.

HOWEVER, I think that event should have been a wakeup call for Jerry that would have motivated him to be much more cautious going forward. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case so from that point forward I can no longer give him the benefit of the doubt.

You seem convinced that sexual assault clearly occurred in 1998 and that I'm a fool for not accepting that as a fact.

Nope, I never said sexual assault occurred in ‘98. What I’ve said is that a crime occurred in ‘98. He was found guilty on 3 of 4 counts against that child. Unlawful conduct with a minor, corruption of a minor, endangering welfare of children. That’s a fact. He was charged, tried, and convicted of those.
For the first part, you are doing the same thing a lot of people have done to try to justify what Jerry did, and it just doesn’t hold water. He didn’t “just” shower alone with a minor. He had physical contact with the minor. To minimize it as “for a person Jerry's age it wasn't out of the ordinary for adults and children to be together in community showers” is disingenuous. He wasn’t charged, tried, and convicted because of that. He had naked physical contact with the child while doing so. You can’t just ignore that part.
You followed up with this: “I recall being in one with my coach.” Was this just you and the coach? Did he have physical contact with you when this occurred? Because if not, it has absolutely nothing to do with what Jerry Sandusky did.
I’m seriously not trying to minimize your opinion but you are just skipping massively important parts of the issue with the ‘98 incident.

 

[Connorpozlee]

‘98 should have ended it
Who screwed that up

Whoever should have didn’t.

 

[bdgan]

Nope, I never said sexual assault occurred in ‘98. What I’ve said is that a crime occurred in ‘98. He was found guilty on 3 of 4 counts against that child. Unlawful conduct with a minor, corruption of a minor, endangering welfare of children. That’s a fact. He was charged, tried, and convicted of those.
For the first part, you are doing the same thing a lot of people have done to try to justify what Jerry did, and it just doesn’t hold water. He didn’t “just” shower alone with a minor. He had physical contact with the minor. To minimize it as “for a person Jerry's age it wasn't out of the ordinary for adults and children to be together in community showers” is disingenuous. He wasn’t charged, tried, and convicted because of that. He had naked physical contact with the child while doing so. You can’t just ignore that part.
You followed up with this: “I recall being in one with my coach.” Was this just you and the coach? Did he have physical contact with you when this occurred? Because if not, it has absolutely nothing to do with what Jerry Sandusky did.
I’m seriously not trying to minimize your opinion but you are just skipping massively important parts of the issue with the ‘98 incident.

I am not trying to justify what JS did other than to say close contact in community showers used to be more common back in the day. I simply said that when I didn't know about any other transgressions I thought it could have been a reasonably innocent encounter. I thought it was "possible" that he was just horsing around with the kid or maybe he held the kid's head up for a rinse. Those options sounded possible at first, especially since investigators said JS just had some boundary issues.

With additional information and the benefit of hindsight I think he was likely grooming the kid.

 

[Connorpozlee]

I am not trying to justify what JS did other than to say close contact in community showers used to be more common back in the day. I simply said that when I didn't know about any other transgressions I thought it could have been a reasonably innocent encounter. I thought it was "possible" that he was just horsing around with the kid or maybe he held the kid's head up for a rinse. Those options sounded possible at first, especially since investigators said JS just had some boundary issues.

With additional information and the benefit of hindsight I think he was likely grooming the kid.

I do appreciate the sensible interaction. These are not easy to come by with this stuff.
I would ask again though, is it reasonable that a grown man would even “horse around” with an 11-year old child alone in a shower? I just don’t think it is and I don’t think the generation Sandusky grew up in is relevant to the discussion. Finding a reason to be alone with another person naked typically has one purpose.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

I agree that JS seems to have been a great groomer who fooled a lot of people. I'll also point out that lots of alleged victims of Nassar at MSU complained directly to school administrators. That wasn't the case at PSU yet it's the PSU administrators who got in trouble. There certainly seems to be a double standard, probably because MSU BOT fought to defend the university while PSU BOT was quick to throw 4 people under the bus.

P.S. I DO blame PSU administrators for handing MM's report about JS informally. Nearly all large institutions have a whistleblower policy where complaints and responses are documented. If PSU had done that there wouldn't be any question about exactly what MM told C&S and we would know how the decision was made not to report to CPS. Shame on the administrators, but that doesn't mean that they knowingly allowed JS to sexually assault boys.

The admin made mistakes but I’m not convinced it was intentional or with malice. It’s hard to live in their shoes at the time and know what they knew or thought, we don't and cannot outside of Schultz's notes which do paint a little idea of some smoke being there. They all had their lives turned upside down due to Jerry’s actions. The BOT then just tossed them under the bus as well. I always had some level of sympathy for them but never understood this empathy for Jerry some had on the old site. A certain group made the actual victims into villains because some wannabe hack telling them what they wanted to hear IMO. Going after the victims is an age old defense trick, but to this day none have come out and said they lied. Oh well, he's where he belongs and rightfully so IMO.

 

[Anon1648262989]

I have no idea if Jerry is guilty or innocent, but I do have doubts about the fairness of the process. The System in not perfect. Innocent men and women are sitting in jail, often with little recourse. Perhaps you have heard of the Innocence Project. Since their founding in 1992 they have helped free hundreds of wrongfully convicted individuals, primarily based on DNA evidence, yet they have received 10's of thousands of requests for help. Certainly not all those requests have merit, but many do. How difficult it must be spending years in jail and knowing you are innocent. If you want further information about them, here is a link:

Innocence Project

We work to free the innocent, prevent wrongful convictions, and create fair, compassionate, and equitable systems of justice for everyone.

innocenceproject.org

The system is not what it was and certainly not what it was ever meant to be. But this much is for sure it will never again but what was given to us. We Are the Modern Romans.

 

[marshall23]

My summary: this debate will continue indefinitely. Simply because all involved (with the exception of PSU administrators) ..Jerry,psp, prosecutors, judges TSM , PSUBOT, Attorneys for claimants, One Term and claimants etc. are all liars, criminals or both.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

My summary: this debate will continue indefinitely. Simply because all involved (with the exception of PSU administrators) ..Jerry,psp, prosecutors, judges TSM , PSUBOT, Attorneys for claimants, One Term and claimants etc. are all liars, criminals or both.

For some it will I imagine.

 

[Bwifan]

My summary: this debate will continue indefinitely. Simply because all involved (with the exception of PSU administrators) ..Jerry,psp, prosecutors, judges TSM , PSUBOT, Attorneys for claimants, One Term and claimants etc. are all liars, criminals or both.

I will always set the facts straight when pertaining to Joe, especially when someone has been brainwashed by the media and the BOT. The others will have to live with what they knew and said whether it was the truth or lies, and basically at this point I don't give 2 sh*ts about any of them.

 

[Colt2169]

Whoever should have didn’t.

I know one thing for sure - it wasn’t Joe who screwed this all up

 

[Connorpozlee]

I know one thing for sure - it wasn’t Joe who screwed this all up

Also, whoever else should have done something it all starts with Mike McQueary.