How do you think he’d comment on that drop? He’d march into aBoT meeting and tell them it’s unacceptable. Those maroons would fire him on the spot.
Wall Street Journal publishes list of 500 Best U.S. Colleges. Penn State ranks....
- Thread starter Keyser Soze 16802
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Rankings are subjective and a dime a dozen. PSU football fans should know all about that by now.
Money, location, reputation etc are all factors for choosing a school.
My kids hated Penn State. I forced them to visit and their minds did not change. They wanted an urban location with all that offers. They ended up going to LA and Philadelphia and loving it.
The expenses at Penn State are very high. No question. Obviously many are willing to pay the cost. When the numbers of students fall you might see changes, but not until you see a drastic drop in enrollment. Why would they change things until that happens?
My kids hated Penn State. I forced them to visit and their minds did not change. They wanted an urban location with all that offers. They ended up going to LA and Philadelphia and loving it.
The expenses at Penn State are very high. No question. Obviously many are willing to pay the cost. When the numbers of students fall you might see changes, but not until you see a drastic drop in enrollment. Why would they change things until that happens?
Do you think they haven't been trying?
The problem is that the money has already been spent. Now they have to pay the bill.
That's fair. I'm sure a lot of these rankings are similar to "best employer" rankings. Those that are ranked highly did a better job promoting themselves. It also think it depends on what you measure. Many cities/states rank higher in some polls than others because they measure different things. New England states might rank higher if you prioritize jobs and universities. They would rank low if you prioritize weather and taxes. That's why it makes sense to look at all the rankings, not just one.
But putting that aside I think we know a couple of things:
- In state tuition $19,835 vs national average of $11,560.
- Out of state $38,651 vs national average of $27,320.
I think the problem is compounded by lower enrollment. The costs are largely fixed so you can't afford to lose tuition/r&b revenues. That could result in lowering the admissions standards.
JMO
Aren’t a PA student’s options $19,835 in state vs paying an average of $27,320 out of state?
And the non-PA student’s options are on average $11,560 to stay home or $38,651 to come over to PSU?
She quoted.” I was brainwashed since I was 2.”
This is true but one would think that the PSU administration ignores this at their peril. This isn’t football.
I recently read here that the PSU meteorology department is no longer top-twenty. How could this be allowed to happen?
Kids and parents look for "bang for the buck" given the indebtedness caused by college attendance.. My second daughter attended the University of Texas for a fraction of the cost of PSU after my oldest daughter left for State College and we paid ridiculous tuition. It was financially prudent comparing cost and reputation. Rising costs and falling reputation is a situation that is not sustainable.Well, we’ve been told here repeatedly over the years how worthless the US News rankings were. Now we’re promoting them to try and get past poor rankings from elsewhere?
PSU is ranked behind Nebraska on that list. If that doesn’t shake Old Main to the core to address the fall in ranking over the years, nothing will.
They publicize the ranking that put them in a good light and are silent on those that don't. I wouldn't expect otherwise. That's the public face. What takes place in Old Main I couldn't say.
Exactly. Which is why I made my original response to the OP’s negative slant on the rankings.
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Your numbers are correct but that doesn't make it a good deal. PA kids have some difficult choices. I guess they could save money by going to Slippery Rock or Shippensburg.
I recall taking my daughter to visit a couple of Ohio colleges and they were willing to waive the out of state premium.
That doesn't solve anything long term. They need to make revenues = expenses. Also, the idea behind an endowment is to use investment income, not eat into the principal.
The intangibles matter in picking a college. The PSU name and alumni recognition far outweighs the PA and Ohio minnows. State College is also a idyllic little college town. I think many grow up with that concept of college in mind.
PSU has always been a bit of an anomaly. The STEM programs have been and will continue to be highly regarded as a function of research dollars. I'm sure meteorology is a blip vs. long term trend. Again, rankings are subjective.
The business school is wild in that it's generally more highly regarded than the MBA program. Nearly all other undergrad business schools ride the coattails of their graduate program. I do think location is a factor in the graduate business and law school rankings. There is bupkis in State College to attract the type of business and legal talent required to build a great program.
You don't think graduates from Ohio colleges do as well when looking for a job?
I don’t. No one likes ohio.
I don’t care what it costs as long as they pay off their own darn loans.
I think a PSU degree opens more doors on average.
Franklin is looking really good right now.
PSU = #346
PSU Football = #8
Franklin be like, “Neeli, what the actual f*ck?!”
My daughter graduates in May and already has a job lined up making almost $100k. No masters. No BS degree. Some debt. She got the job via a PSU alum who is a senior VP at the company. Hard to quantify that resource in a subjective ranking.You get what you pay for.
And the irony is that Eric "Intellectually" Barron ran the National Center for Atmospheric Research
Probably partly attributed to leadership decisions, but much of it has to do with things which are out of Penn State control: 1) structure of the Penn State Board of trustees. This is legislatively mandated by the Pennsylvania General assembly. It is obviously unwieldy and inefficient at best. Regardless of strong leadership in the office of the President, she/he cannot do anything without the express consent of the board; 2) Pennsylvania is one of, if not the only, state that has a bifurcated public higher education system. The PASSHE schools are the only true “state” schools and as a percentage of total revenue are funded at a much higher level than state-related schools like Penn State. And, PSU’s branch campuses compete directly with many of the PASSHE schools, which is wholly untenable. Unfortunately, even if the Penn State administration wanted to close a branch campus, they would need the express approval of the general assembly. Combine all of this bureaucracy and inefficiency with declining population in Pennsylvania and declining enrollment in overall higher education and you have a perfect storm. I know the simple answer is.”poor leadership” but it is much, much more complicated than simply that.
I'm surprised by the low enrollment at commonwealth campuses. I attended one and it was a great experience. I commuted from home with saved a lot of money on room and board. It also provided a more gradual transition to independent living and allowed me to keep working part time.
I understand that people are having fewer kids these days but back in my day less than half of high school graduates went on to college. Now that number is closer to 70%. I can't help but to believe that kids are making irresponsible decisions by choosing main campus thinking it will be more fun and not worrying about the cost because loans are easy to obtain and repayment seems far in the future.
Southern schools are currently recruiting students from the Midwest and West Coast by offering generous financial aid packages that make school incredibly cheap or even free depending upon the academic qualifications of the student.
Two main reasons are driving this.
1. Primary schools in the Southern states are still awful. I experienced this first hand as Training Instructor with the Air Force. There simply aren’t enough academically qualified students in a lot of these states to fill the more STEM oriented degree programs.
2. Studies have shown that the majority of college graduates tend to settle within 100 miles of where they graduated college. So it’s an investment by the states to boost sectors like tech and medicine.
They’re also being extremely smart about it as well. They’re targeting the top schools in the larger metro areas like Philly, Chicago, and Indianapolis. They’re also sending academic recruiters who operate pretty much the same way that athletic recruiters do. And a lot of those recruiters use local contacts. It’s not Daisy May and Bubba talking to the student and parents, it’s people from the community that are making these connections.
Now, I’ll add the from firsthand experience with some families that have sent their students to schools like Alabama and LSU, their enjoyment centers largely around the Greek Life at those schools. Students who embrace it come home transformed, some times into someone parents don’t necessarily like.
As far as a long term strategy goes, the jury is still out. While large metros like Nashville, Atlanta, and Charlotte are booming and investment money is flowing in like water, the state governments are still very anti-investment when it comes to core things like education, transportation, and infrastructure.
Two main reasons are driving this.
1. Primary schools in the Southern states are still awful. I experienced this first hand as Training Instructor with the Air Force. There simply aren’t enough academically qualified students in a lot of these states to fill the more STEM oriented degree programs.
2. Studies have shown that the majority of college graduates tend to settle within 100 miles of where they graduated college. So it’s an investment by the states to boost sectors like tech and medicine.
They’re also being extremely smart about it as well. They’re targeting the top schools in the larger metro areas like Philly, Chicago, and Indianapolis. They’re also sending academic recruiters who operate pretty much the same way that athletic recruiters do. And a lot of those recruiters use local contacts. It’s not Daisy May and Bubba talking to the student and parents, it’s people from the community that are making these connections.
Now, I’ll add the from firsthand experience with some families that have sent their students to schools like Alabama and LSU, their enjoyment centers largely around the Greek Life at those schools. Students who embrace it come home transformed, some times into someone parents don’t necessarily like.
As far as a long term strategy goes, the jury is still out. While large metros like Nashville, Atlanta, and Charlotte are booming and investment money is flowing in like water, the state governments are still very anti-investment when it comes to core things like education, transportation, and infrastructure.
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Definitely see it here in the DC metro area. Tons of recruiters from southern schools like Clemson, South Carolina, Alabama and Auburn up here in schools with recruiting pitches. Lots of kids, whose parents have more conservative values are pushing their kids there as well.
Back in 1970 my cousin went to Ole Miss, met a guy and married, and never came back to PA. I agree that many kids leave the state and never return. They have since WW2, and our population hasn’t grown much since 1950.
It also seems many of the out of state kids who go to PSU do not stay in PA upon graduation. I think that PSU being in the middle of nowhere is a reason for that. Jobs are elsewhere and recruiters have a good shot at getting the best and brightest to move to their location, even out of state.
If I was running Penn State or state government I would shake up things and try to develop the industrial and economic development in Centre County and adjacent communities. It’s obvious that what we have been doing over the last fifty years has not brought about major change.
My son went to Temple and his friends from his frat all stayed in the Philly area and took professional jobs in national firms with offices there. They are 30 now and have established careers, so I don’t see them leaving Southeast PA anytime soon. Like my son quite a few have taken jobs and also obtained graduate degrees from one of the many Philly universities. Ten years ago I never would have thought I would see the growth that is taking place in that area. The higher education sector has really been a source of that comeback. Penn, St Joe’s, Temple, Drexel have all been major forces of the growth.
My wife earned her graduate degree at Pitt. I notice quite a few Pitt grads live in Central PA. I would have to ask others if there has been any change in Western PA with their bleeding of population? CMU obviously is a national university. I know a few lawyers who attended Duquesne. I don’t sense that those schools have had the success of the Philly schools.
BTW, I was a civil engineer who spent the first half of my career building things and the second half of my career managing people who built things. Our firm hired graduates from Penn State, Bucknell, Lehigh and Drexel. I think all those schools produce quality kids. There is a reason recruiters are busy taking trips to State College, Lewisburg, and Philly.
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They are doing same with PA kids also. Lots of kids going to Clemson, S.Carolina, Alabama, Florida, Tampa, etc.
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