Talk about rapid reaction. Oregon's 12-man penalty loophole was quickly closed by the NCAA and yet the ''fake injury'' loophole lingers untouched.
Too hot to handle?
Too hot to handle?
What about the ''fake injury'' loophole?
- Thread starter PrestonyteParrot
- Start date
Definitely a lot more complicated than the 12 man loophole.
If you require a player to sit out the rest of a series after an injury stoppage, that likely pushes the pendulum too far the other direction. You'll have players try to fight through something they shouldn't.
Perhaps there could be a delay of game penalty or the like for players who clearly are falling down to slow things down. I saw the clip of Jaxson Dart waving at the running back, who then randomly falls down. That seems like a clear delay of game.
Yes, much more complicated.
You could say a player has to sit out the rest of a series, but that's not gonna be much of a penalty if a defensive player fakes an injury on a 3rd down.
It would be asking a lot of refs to discern real from fake injuries. Yes, we all can tell what some of the fake ones are, like the one you mention.
There's probably no way to fix it without some legitimate injuries getting penalized. Delay of game sounds reasonable, but I'm not sure what the criteria would be. I would say it just has to be based on common sense. If the injury doesn't seem to be apparently linked to a play (i.e. a player slow to get up after getting hit) but a player a just randomly falling down without contact, then it could be delay of game. Major judgement call though.
It's a very scummy and cruddy thing to do.
This.
I think of it like that famous quote about our justice system. I would rather 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man get punished.
I would err on the side of allowing the fake injuries, rather than penalize legitimate injuries.
I like the notion of treating like the helmet coming off. Obviously the guy has to sit out a play. What if we made it 2?
I agree it's more difficult, but both are intentional and now one will stop and the other will continue.
A player has to sit out a play if his helmet comes off unintentionally. The ''fake injury'' thing has to be addressed with something more significant than that or the game is going suffer and become more unwatchable. I know the networks love it because of the additional commercial breaks but fans in the stands are being bored to death.
Maybe the way to fix it is to put it on the coach in some way - fines, suspensions, etc. or other ideas others may have.
That's already the rule. If a player comes out for an injury, he has to sit for a play at least.
In the NFL, if a player gets injured inside of 2 minutes, the injured player's team is forced to call timeout. Perhaps an idea along those lines could be used.
The coach has to be condoning or going along with the ''fake injury'' model or otherwise he would not allow it.
I'm beginning to think targeting the coach is the way to stop it.
I'm beginning to think targeting the coach is the way to stop it.
Then I think the only way to discourage it has to be a hit to recruiting somehow because these coaches make too much $$ to care about fines. I know you didn't mention fines but I think the best way to target the coach directly is for the penalty to occur in game.
Just make it - if the ref has to stop the game - it's delay of game. Offense or defense. 5 yard penalty. Period.
I don't buy the argument that it would make some players "play through the injury" and thus potentially making the injury worse. They already do that because normally they don't want to come out anyway. That part has been going on forever.
I agree with this portion of your post completely. Take that out of consideration. As to the remedy, That's going to take some high-level crafting.
That might be a bit much, I think, considering you're asking refs to discern fake from real injury.
However, would you consider faking an injury to be unsportsmanlike conduct? I certainly would. What's more unsportsmanlike than that?
Rece Davis offered some perspective on the complexities:
“Everybody wants the officials to do something. Look, man, I’m not convinced these cats can figure out targeting. They can’t figure out how many men are on the field sometimes. They sure can’t figure out pass interference. Now I’m going to make them a trainer? Now I’m going to make them a medical professional? I understand guys sometimes are taking flops. That’s for sure. I know what it looks like. How about the one time when the guy cramps up? Heaven forbid, how about the one time a guy has a seizure? How about the one time that the guy that you think took a flop has asthma and he has some type of attack and needs his medication? You’re going to put that in the hands of the officials?”
“Everybody wants the officials to do something. Look, man, I’m not convinced these cats can figure out targeting. They can’t figure out how many men are on the field sometimes. They sure can’t figure out pass interference. Now I’m going to make them a trainer? Now I’m going to make them a medical professional? I understand guys sometimes are taking flops. That’s for sure. I know what it looks like. How about the one time when the guy cramps up? Heaven forbid, how about the one time a guy has a seizure? How about the one time that the guy that you think took a flop has asthma and he has some type of attack and needs his medication? You’re going to put that in the hands of the officials?”
I understand the reluctance to put anything medical in the hands of officials but it's just sad that a team who can't compete at the pace of the other team has to resort to these shady tactics to be competitive and a coach is all for it and doesn't put a stop to it.
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Yeah, I think asking the refs to make a judgement call has to be off the table.
So if that's a judgement call, then punishing the coach somehow (outside of the on field game) would also be a judgement call
In order to take all judgement calls off the table....... it simply has to be a hard and fast rule. No exceptions. Teams and fans will adjust. The more I think about it - the more I like the delay of game penalty. Some might argue that rule to be unfair because it essentially punishes other players (on the same team) who are not even involved.
To that, I say: Exactly! - FB is a team sport. Hobble yo' arse off the field, and if you can't --- Ok. Remember, it would only apply if the ref has to stop the game - literally a delay of game. If you come up dinged on a play and can make it off the field with someone subbing in for you, no harm, no foul. Game continues.
Just from the discussion of the issue in this thread, it is easy to see why this is just not a rule change that can be made in the middle of a season like they did with the 12-man thing. This is an off-season rule change. And I do believe there will be something done about it before the 2025 season.
I do think they need to take the NFL rule that makes a team use a time-out in the last two min of a half.
I also think can extend the amount of players a player has to sit out. Maybe it is a mandatory trip to the sideline tent to get looked at. Maybe add a rule that if the same player goes down 2 or 3 times, he is out or something like that.
Part of me would like to have a "flop" rule like the NBA has, but I do not know if that would work or not. That again puts it back to a ref judgment call and I do not believe they want to go there. Desmond Howard said the other day that with all the cameras these days, you can for the most part see the obvious flops. Maybe use replay and hit them with a flop penalty in that situation. At least that would make them at least try and fake it better.
I do think they need to take the NFL rule that makes a team use a time-out in the last two min of a half.
I also think can extend the amount of players a player has to sit out. Maybe it is a mandatory trip to the sideline tent to get looked at. Maybe add a rule that if the same player goes down 2 or 3 times, he is out or something like that.
Part of me would like to have a "flop" rule like the NBA has, but I do not know if that would work or not. That again puts it back to a ref judgment call and I do not believe they want to go there. Desmond Howard said the other day that with all the cameras these days, you can for the most part see the obvious flops. Maybe use replay and hit them with a flop penalty in that situation. At least that would make them at least try and fake it better.
There is something to the guy who does down multiple times. I can't remember which Ole Miss player it was, but one of those guys was down it seemed like every drive. At some point, a player who is getting "hurt" that much shouldn't be able to play.
Nothing to the extent that it's happening now. There were 11 pauses in game action against Ole Miss for injuries. That's just absurd.
Guys have always faked coming up gimpy after a play and that sort of thing. But now you have guys just falling down out of nowhere for no apparent reason. And guys taking clear signals from the sideline to fall down and fake injury when play isn't even going on.
There is obviously a certain amount that has historically been accepted as gamesmanship, but certain coaches have decided to push it to the next level.
Lane Kiffin took something that's always happened and does it every single time there's a momentum swing. This video is two years old.
I can go along with making it "sit out for 2 plays instead of the current 1, plus adopt the NFL rule." That's about as far as I think we can reasonably get.
We can all gag over the example, but my Clemson friends complained about this going back to the turn of the century, when Tommy Bowden brought the fast paced offense.
(How many injuries are average for a game, because we'd have to subtract that from the 11 to see the real impact. )
I guess i like to discuss as a mental exercise of how to really address a situation. But I have to admit, this seems like "same old same old" to me.
Oh, come now. It's very obvious on the face of it that this is much worse than what has been accepted in the past.
There's no value to pretending otherwise.
Sure, but not like it is now. And how they are not even trying to hide it since they know there is nothing they will do to them.
I still think you could increase the penalty for frequent floppers. If they have to have trainers come onto the field 3 or more times to look at them, they might should sit a little longer IMO.
The coach can stop this - if he wants to.
The solution is to make him want to!
How is the question.
The solution is to make him want to!
How is the question.
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