What is there to like about Coach Franklin?

[LaJollaCreek]

Right. He is doing okay. Is that what we're talking about here? Him being okay? Definitely a good coach and appropriately compensated? Yes - I think most agree with that. But, you are chastising anyone with a dissenting opinion and I don't get it. The record vs. top teams and OSU and UM is a fact. As are the 11 win season and NYD bowl games/wins. Great. You don't have to push back on how folks choose to deploy their fandom and/or criticism of Franklin. He does a lot of things very well and has work to do in other areas. The trajectory is up - but it was up in 2016 too. We're sort of flatlined at 11 win seasons with two predictable losses until we can get over the hump. That, of course, is the problem of only a handful of programs, so we're in good company, but knowing you like to play 'whatabout', Mark Richt was as or more successful at Georgia than Franklin at Penn State and they went out, got a better coach, and have won two National Championships in the hardest conference in football. To that point, Georgia was not as historically successful as Penn State (they have since surpassed). None of this is knee jerk - Franklin is in his ninth year here. It's valid to ask if he's ever going to win another B1G Championship and/or make the playoff.

Again I'm not chastising anyone. I simply pointed out that most coaches have crappy records against the to 10 and it bothers you. I cannot help you there because that trend was true 30 years ago just as it is today. When I dare to post that, it triggers you to replying and then play a victim. For someone who is "ok"with Franklin you certainly seem to have issue with anyone not carrying a pitchfork for him. PSU wasn't winning BT titles at some enormous rate pre Franklin or am I not allowed to point that out either. Please stop with your nonsense that everyone else cannot post their opinions but you can....you're doing the same exact thing. At least own it a little bit.

We agree he's a good coach. We agree he's not getting fired or even on some chopping block. We agree he has messed up before and will again. We know for a fact 99% of coaches have a crap record against the top 10. Sorry I'll go out of my way to throw more shade on that guy to make you feel better.

 

[Midnighter]

Again I'm not chastising anyone. I simply pointed out that most coaches have crappy records against the to 10 and it bothers you. I cannot help you there because that trend was true 30 years ago just as it is today. When I dare to post that, it triggers you to replying and then play a victim. For someone who is "ok"with Franklin you certainly seem to have issue with anyone not carrying a pitchfork for him. PSU wasn't winning BT titles at some enormous rate pre Franklin or am I not allowed to point that out either. Please stop with your nonsense that everyone else cannot post their opinions but you can....you're doing the same exact thing. At least own it a little bit.

We agree he's a good coach. We agree he's not getting fired or even on some chopping block. We agree he has messed up before and will again. We know for a fact 99% of coaches have a crap record against the top 10. Sorry I'll go out of my way to throw more shade on that guy to make you feel better.

I never said people couldn't post opinions; I said that they can't without you and others shouting them down. I don't have an issue with Franklin supporters at all - I am one. But also objective enough to call out shortcomings. Debatable on how useful that is, but we're mostly tossing off here anyway, so why not? Like you said, for better or worse he's not going anywhere. Joe's last nine years (which is Franklin's tenure to this point) from 2003 - 2011 he won two B1G Championships, won 11 games twice, and won the Orange, Outback, Alamo, and Capital One bowls (6-2 in bowl games) while his average recruiting class ranking was somewhere in the 30's and that includes two losing seasons (2003, 2004). Franklin's classes are ranked around 15 for his entire tenure and he's done about the same with one fewer B1G Championship and two fewer bowl wins. So, did Joe set the bar 'higher'? Probably, considering we haven't touched the rest of his record, which is what Meat Lab said before you felt obliged to 'whatabout' him to death in your response.

Have at it.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

I never said people couldn't post opinions; I said that they can't without you and others shouting them down. I don't have an issue with Franklin supporters at all - I am one. But also objective enough to call out shortcomings. Debatable on how useful that is, but we're mostly tossing off here anyway, so why not? Like you said, for better or worse he's not going anywhere. Joe's last nine years (which is Franklin's tenure to this point) from 2003 - 2011 he won two B1G Championships, won 11 games twice, and won the Orange, Outback, Alamo, and Capital One bowls (6-2 in bowl games) while his average recruiting class ranking was somewhere in the 30's and that includes two losing seasons (2003, 2004). Franklin's classes are ranked around 15 for his entire tenure and he's done about the same with one fewer B1G Championship and two fewer bowl wins. So, did Joe set the bar 'higher'? Probably, considering we haven't touched the rest of his record, which is what Meat Lab said before you felt obliged to 'whatabout' him to death in your response.

Have at it.

Whatever man, my response was a link to an article with numbers and stats and you replied to it...not him. Yeah you don't exaggerate your points at all with this response or crying foul about me and apparently 2 others. Now I can see what this is about....my bad. Joe is a God, Franklin will never be him. I never took you for being one of those guys...I would have dropped it had I known. Hell I now seeing you dragging this into other threads too...good job.

 

[GrimReaper]

Again I'm not chastising anyone. I simply pointed out that most coaches have crappy records against the to 10 and it bothers you. I cannot help you there because that trend was true 30 years ago just as it is today. When I dare to post that, it triggers you to replying and then play a victim. For someone who is "ok"with Franklin you certainly seem to have issue with anyone not carrying a pitchfork for him. PSU wasn't winning BT titles at some enormous rate pre Franklin or am I not allowed to point that out either. Please stop with your nonsense that everyone else cannot post their opinions but you can....you're doing the same exact thing. At least own it a little bit.

We agree he's a good coach. We agree he's not getting fired or even on some chopping block. We agree he has messed up before and will again. We know for a fact 99% of coaches have a crap record against the top 10. Sorry I'll go out of my way to throw more shade on that guy to make you feel better.

Rationalize all you want. To be "elite", a coach has to regularly be in the hunt for the national title and win one every so often. To do that, a coach has to have a better record than 3-6 v Michigan and 1-8 v OSU. We're not talking about being better than 99% of coaches; we're talking "elite." Joe Paterno never set that as the standard for PSU and neither did I.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Rationalize all you want. To be "elite", a coach has to regularly be in the hunt for the national title and win one every so often. To do that, a coach has to have a better record than 3-6 v Michigan and 1-8 v OSU. We're not talking about being better than 99% of coaches; we're talking "elite." Joe Paterno never set that as the standard for PSU and neither did I.

So he shouldn't have said elite and set a high bar. Seems like a valid criticism. You're absolutely right about Joe never stating that too because he didn't. He said the fans expectations were too high and he and his staff got lazy for a year or two...he was honest. Loved that about him. Others used it against him, but I loved it.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Under Franklin, the Nittany Lions are 2-15 against top-10 teams and 1-10 against top-5 teams. Since taking over as head coach in 2014, Penn State football is 1-8 against Ohio State and 3-6 against Michigan. All for $7m per year. I’d like to think Joe set a bar higher than that.

What was Joe’s record against the same groupings in his last 9 seasons?

 

[marshall23]

I choose not to accept.

If there is no offer...you can't decline!

 

[marshall23]

Right. He is doing okay. Is that what we're talking about here? Him being okay? Definitely a good coach and appropriately compensated? Yes - I think most agree with that. But, you are chastising anyone with a dissenting opinion and I don't get it. The record vs. top teams and OSU and UM is a fact. As are the 11 win season and NYD bowl games/wins. Great. You don't have to push back on how folks choose to deploy their fandom and/or criticism of Franklin. He does a lot of things very well and has work to do in other areas. The trajectory is up - but it was up in 2016 too. We're sort of flatlined at 11 win seasons with two predictable losses until we can get over the hump. That, of course, is the problem of only a handful of programs, so we're in good company, but knowing you like to play 'whatabout', Mark Richt was as or more successful at Georgia than Franklin at Penn State and they went out, got a better coach, and have won two National Championships in the hardest conference in football. To that point, Georgia was not as historically successful as Penn State (they have since surpassed). None of this is knee jerk - Franklin is in his ninth year here. It's valid to ask if he's ever going to win another B1G Championship and/or make the playoff.

Flat lining at 11 wins .....we deserve better

 

[marshall23]

So what do we like about Franklin?

He's okay. But he needs to win more than 11 games and he needs to learn how to game day coach..all the knowledge is right here for him. Oh, and he needs to recruit more 5 stars...
If he did all this plus made "us" elite by making the playoffs, we would but like him. Doing all this for less money is preferred.

 

[Paruffus]

To me: thankfully CJF has maintained the great majority of the standards set by JVP and it is those standards that continue to enable Penn State to remain in the upper echelon of collegiate sports, both off the fields of play and on same.

 

[Midnighter]

Whatever man, my response was a link to an article with numbers and stats and you replied to it...not him. Yeah you don't exaggerate your points at all with this response or crying foul about me and apparently 2 others. Now I can see what this is about....my bad. Joe is a God, Franklin will never be him. I never took you for being one of those guys...I would have dropped it had I known. Hell I now seeing you dragging this into other threads too...good job.

Oh - you added stuff. Yeah, I figure if marshall23 can do it so can I (now the BWICAC can have a true enemy!). Joe should have retired in 2000 btw. This isn’t about Joe, it’s about people’s expectations for Penn State. They probably thought we’d be more successful with a coach who recruits at a high level and we’re really performing about the same (and Paterno is brought up because he’s the other significant person who had this job). So, we can’t compare Franklin to Joe, and we can’t compare him to anyone else, and we’re ‘that guy’ if we try. So be it.

 

[marshall23]

The fix is easy. "We" just go out and find the Big 10 coach that has a winning record vs Ohio State and Michigan over the past 10 years.

 

[Paruffus]

Start here then maybe:

1995	Kutztown (WR)
1996	East Stroudsburg (DB)
1996	Roskilde Kings (OC)
1997	James Madison (WR)
1998	Washington State (TE)
1999	Idaho State (WR)

I'd be willing to bet in these 6 years of coaching he didn't gross six figures altogether.

Yes. Great! CJF was willing to pay his dues. Kudos!

 

[Paruffus]

The fix is easy. "We" just go out and find the Big 10 coach that has a winning record vs Ohio State and Michigan over the past 10 years.

Right. BTW, I saw him the other day. He was riding a unicorn.

 

[Paruffus]

He's okay. But he needs to win more than 11 games and he needs to learn how to game day coach..all the knowledge is right here for him. Oh, and he needs to recruit more 5 stars...
If he did all this plus made "us" elite by making the playoffs, we would but like him. Doing all this for less money is preferred.

Recruit more 5-stars? He does...but those ungrateful 'fivers' decide to go elsewhere.

 

[Woodpecker]

I never said people couldn't post opinions; I said that they can't without you and others shouting them down. I don't have an issue with Franklin supporters at all - I am one. But also objective enough to call out shortcomings. Debatable on how useful that is, but we're mostly tossing off here anyway, so why not? Like you said, for better or worse he's not going anywhere. Joe's last nine years (which is Franklin's tenure to this point) from 2003 - 2011 he won two B1G Championships, won 11 games twice, and won the Orange, Outback, Alamo, and Capital One bowls (6-2 in bowl games) while his average recruiting class ranking was somewhere in the 30's and that includes two losing seasons (2003, 2004). Franklin's classes are ranked around 15 for his entire tenure and he's done about the same with one fewer B1G Championship and two fewer bowl wins. So, did Joe set the bar 'higher'? Probably, considering we haven't touched the rest of his record, which is what Meat Lab said before you felt obliged to 'whatabout' him to death in your response.

Have at it.

So Franklin's problem is that he recruits too well?

 

[Midnighter]

So Franklin's problem is that he recruits too well?

Sure, why not?

 

[marshall23]

Yes. Great! CJF was willing to pay his dues. Kudos!

Unlike the BWICAC
1995-COUCH COACH
1996- " "
1997- " "
1998- " "

 

[marshall23]

Right. BTW, I saw him the other day. He was riding a unicorn.

Reality is irrelevant. We deserve better.

 

[HappyValley1]

Under Franklin, the Nittany Lions are 2-15 against top-10 teams and 1-10 against top-5 teams. Since taking over as head coach in 2014, Penn State football is 1-8 against Ohio State and 3-6 against Michigan. All for $7m per year. I’d like to think Joe set a bar higher than that.

Can we talk about not beating Michigan once from 1997-2008 (2008 win broke that streak)?

Or losing 8 out of 9 to Iowa between 2000-2010?

Joe set a higher bar…..lol.

 

[Paruffus]

Reality is irrelevant. We deserve better.

Yes, but staying 'on topic': who is that 'better' coach...the one with a 10-year winning record against OSU and MI?

 

[Burgenthal]

I have been frustrated with Franklin as much as the next guy, especially during 2020 and 2021 (believe me I dont need to be lectured on covid and on-campus visits strength for PSU)

Franklin has begged for more resources for years, and I used to laugh at him as placing blame elsewhere, not taking ownership, etc. BUT as soon as he got these resources we are on a recruiting tear man. Now its on the man to bring back W's. He's opened a multi year window here. If we are sitting in the same spot in 4 years then yes I will be critical. He has no excuse to make if we don't take another step up.

But to all the Joe idolizers... if you think for a second our program is not SUBSTANTIALLY HERALTHIER today than Joe's in the 2000's then sorry to say fellas you are out to ******* lunch

 

[marshall23]

I never said people couldn't post opinions; I said that they can't without you and others shouting them down. I don't have an issue with Franklin supporters at all - I am one. But also objective enough to call out shortcomings. Debatable on how useful that is, but we're mostly tossing off here anyway, so why not? Like you said, for better or worse he's not going anywhere. Joe's last nine years (which is Franklin's tenure to this point) from 2003 - 2011 he won two B1G Championships, won 11 games twice, and won the Orange, Outback, Alamo, and Capital One bowls (6-2 in bowl games) while his average recruiting class ranking was somewhere in the 30's and that includes two losing seasons (2003, 2004). Franklin's classes are ranked around 15 for his entire tenure and he's done about the same with one fewer B1G Championship and two fewer bowl wins. So, did Joe set the bar 'higher'? Probably, considering we haven't touched the rest of his record, which is what Meat Lab said before you felt obliged to 'whatabout' him to death in your response.

Have at it.

Why is it that disputing someone's opinion is shouting them down. This is just a worthless fan message board. Nothing impacting PSU'S football product on the field has ever or will ever occur here. I come here to be amused. If anyone, including me, knew what they were talking about we'd be making 7 million per and the rest would be dissing us. Again, if PSU is beneath anyone's Elite fandom....fans have always had the portal.

 

[marshall23]

I have been frustrated with Franklin as much as the next guy, especially during 2020 and 2021 (believe me I dont need to be lectured on covid and on-campus visits strength for PSU)

Franklin has begged for more resources for years, and I used to laugh at him as placing blame elsewhere, not taking ownership, etc. BUT as soon as he got these resources we are on a recruiting tear man. Now its on the man to bring back W's. He's opened a multi year window here. If we are sitting in the same spot in 4 years then yes I will be critical. He has no excuse to make if we don't take another step up.

But to all the Joe idolizers... if you think for a second our program is not SUBSTANTIALLY HERALTHIER today than Joe's in the 2000's then sorry to say fellas you are out to ******* lunch

Don't lump all Joe's "idolizers" together. I thought Joe was the GOAT. However, CJF is doing just fine.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

I have been frustrated with Franklin as much as the next guy, especially during 2020 and 2021 (believe me I dont need to be lectured on covid and on-campus visits strength for PSU)

Franklin has begged for more resources for years, and I used to laugh at him as placing blame elsewhere, not taking ownership, etc. BUT as soon as he got these resources we are on a recruiting tear man. Now its on the man to bring back W's. He's opened a multi year window here. If we are sitting in the same spot in 4 years then yes I will be critical. He has no excuse to make if we don't take another step up.

But to all the Joe idolizers... if you think for a second our program is not SUBSTANTIALLY HERALTHIER today than Joe's in the 2000's then sorry to say fellas you are out to ******* lunch

I think some expected more overnight after 2016. I was frustrated as hell with the annual foot out the door routine, but it was explained pretty well last week. It came right from the horses mouth. The program is on solid footing and I just hope he turns the final corner. Both coaches were good for PSU for different reasons at different times and both had their faults. Neither one walked or walks on water. Basically JF's now a creature of his own success and some will chip away at him slowly until he wins another BT title or playoff spot which is fine. It's the modern fan mentality as there is always someone better until there isn't and your spinning around for a decade or two trying to find that guy.


When posters I somewhat respect start taking pot shots...I'm out of this thread.

 

[Burgenthal]

Can we all just take a moment to remember when Joe **** his pants

 

[marshall23]

Yes, but staying 'on topic': who is that 'better' coach...the one with a 10-year winning record against OSU and MI?

Echo the sounds of silence.......

 

[marshall23]

Can we all just take a moment to remember when Joe **** his pants

Can we all just try to be intelligent enough to realize that it isn't necessary to denigrate Joe in order to support James?
And vice versa. Joe is the ONLY reason many of us ever started following PSU football. Guys who pick Joe apart are the same type of ungrateful bastards that would kick their dying father in the nuts for leaving no inheritance.

 

[Nitwit]

He over uses the word “obviously.”

 

[Burgenthal]

Can we all just try to be intelligent enough to realize that it isn't necessary to denigrate Joe in order to support James?
And vice versa. Joe is the ONLY reason many of us ever started following PSU football. Guys who pick Joe apart are the same type of ungrateful bastards that would kick their dying father in the nuts for leaving no inheritance.

and for those of us that grew up with a mediocre team and a coach that **** his pants? followed by scandal? I wasn't born into PSU fandom. I fell in love when I was in school. I am critical of James, but happier to have him now than I used to be. But spare me this trash. You can have your heroes, and I can remember when they **** their pants. Its pretty simple

 

[marshall23]

and for those of us that grew up with a mediocre team and a coach that **** his pants? followed by scandal? I wasn't born into PSU fandom. I fell in love when I was in school. I am critical of James, but happier to have him now than I used to be. But spare me this trash. You can have your heroes, and I can remember when they **** their pants. Its pretty simple

You have the right to be an *******.

 

[BobPSU92]

He over uses the word “obviously.”

Obviously. What else?

 

[BobPSU92]

You have the right to be an *******.

Obviously burgendicker is a troll.

 

[marshall23]

Obviously burgendicker is a troll.

I'd use some other words.....you are always too nice....

 

[Paruffus]

Echo the sounds of silence.......

"Hello darkness my old friend..."

 

[Catch1lion]

The problem is to a vocal few here, you can't hold any dissenting or critical view of Franklin and still say positive things about him. It's the same three posters over, and over, and over again.

 

[Midnighter]

 

[Meat Lab]

Joe may have wanted to set the bar higher but he did not. But keep grinding. You might get it right one day.

And the salary is a weak crutch. Get past it and grow the eff up.

What bar has Franklin set? Get off ur high horse cuz u haven’t a clue here.

 

[Meat Lab]

So what do we like about Franklin?

Obviously everything based on lajolla and psuro.

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

Paterno was 2-9 vs Lloyd Carr, 3-6 vs Jim Tressel, and 3-8 vs Kirk Ferentz. That’s 8-23 vs those three conference coaches.