Where does Penn State rank in the final Associated Press Poll this season?

[laKavosiey-st lion]

win 10+ 3 years in a row

as always, please post up the big wins in that awesome 30. 30 doesn’t mean anything at all except GO STATE BEAT BLUE HENS.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

do OCs and DCs ever criticize the coach they work for, even after being fired? I tend to think they stay quiet and not burn bridges as doing so might sour others who might hire them.

What we do know is key game moments are decided by the head coach, things like going for it on 4th down, 2 point conversion, etc. One would think the HC reviews and provides input to game planning and preparation. Franklin clearly puts in his 2 cents on play calls, else why is he yapping on headsets and holding charts.

Again....I can listen to you who's opinion I have literally zero respect for on pretty much every level or the people like Fitz, Ryan, Nate, Tyler, or Brennan. Who do you think I should believe, you or those guys? Tough call I know because you honestly have been told to tune everything out from the media so that is how you roll, but I'll go with those guys.

Of course HC's chime in on certain game day decisions and he has jacked some up, but the scheme and vast majority of the offense is left up to the coordinators he hires. This notion all of these other HC's get it right all of the time is utter BS by people only looking through one microscope. I have seen Joe, Bowden, Dabo, Saban, Meyer....tons of coaches blow games even when they were the more talented team. PSU isn't doing that right now, but they will and they have. Nobody is exempt from it. You can say whatever you want to, but that isn't what is being reported by those closest and around the team. I know only the losses count, he's an awful coach holding us down until we get a Joe guy in there. He fired his OC mid year because MY was doing exactly what he wanted.....brilliant logic. I'm sure that line of coaches you have and the money you have lined up to get rid of JF is just ready to change it up.

 

[leinbacker]

Again....I can listen to you who's opinion I have literally zero respect for on pretty much every level or the people like Fitz, Ryan, Nate, Tyler, or Brennan. Who do you think I should believe, you or those guys? Tough call I know because you honestly have been told to tune everything out from the media so that is how you roll, but I'll go with those guys.

I'm following up on your assertion,
"Did you ever hearany of his OC's say JF handcuffed them? Have you seen any credible PSU beat writer even hint at this?"

That strikes me as a poor measure. A departing coordinator would clearly not be helping his career if he went off about being handcuffed. Do you think future employers like to hire people who go off on their previous boss in the media? As far as Fitz, Ryan, Nate, et. al. I don't know what they have to do with anything. Their silence on the issue simply means noone is talking. They can't compel past coordinators to spill the beans to them.

The only facts we can look at is that JF seems to go through a lot of offensive coordinators and there is no evidence of what their game planning/calling relationship with JF was.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

I'm following up on your assertion,
"Did you ever hearany of his OC's say JF handcuffed them? Have you seen any credible PSU beat writer even hint at this?"

That strikes me as a poor measure. A departing coordinator would clearly not be helping his career if he went off about being handcuffed. Do you think future employers like to hire people who go off on their previous boss in the media? As far as Fitz, Ryan, Nate, et. al. I don't know what they have to do with anything. Their silence on the issue simply means noone is talking. They can't compel past coordinators to spill the beans to them.

The only facts we can look at is that JF seems to go through a lot of offensive coordinators and there is no evidence of what their game planning/calling relationship with JF was.

Maybe you should just pony up the $10 a month...or continue with what you are trying to invent in your head. The fact you think those folks I mentioned are silent on what you are making up means you don't read what they report which is fine. They have been pretty crystal clear on the paywall side that your myth isn't a reality. Your call on keep stating this BS...I won't lose any sleep over it. I understand he has some say on certain game day decisions just like any other HC, but he isn't calling the O or taking it over. Big difference on saying going for it on 4th or calling all 3 plays leading up to the 4th. Big difference on calling for the fake punt or an onside kick than calling the entire game of 95% of it.

I'm not pretending I agree with all of his gameday decisions, but there will NEVER EVER be a HC where that occurs. Open your other eye and pull your head up from that PSU microscope.

 

[Midnighter]

Maybe you should just pony up the $10 a month...or continue with what you are trying to invent in your head. The fact you think those folks I mentioned are silent on what you are making up means you don't read what they report which is fine. They have been pretty crystal clear on the paywall side that your myth isn't a reality. Your call on keep stating this BS...I won't lose any sleep over it. I understand he has some say on certain game day decisions just like any other HC, but he isn't calling the O or taking it over. Big difference on saying going for it on 4th or calling all 3 plays leading up to the 4th. Big difference on calling for the fake punt or an onside kick than calling the entire game of 95% of it.

Why do you respond so aggressively to anyone you disagree with? Michigan up until three years ago was also a 'has been Blue Blood' program - they course corrected and we see the results. Their talent is not superior to Penn State's - as well documented all over recruiting sites, we do as well or better than Michigan year in, year out under Franklin. The thing about progress is you can see it happening in real time - Michigan the past three years was getting better and better. They started by beating their biggest rival and making the CFP. And just kept building on that. They convinced a bunch of players to stay and that helped a ton. Are you seeing progress with Penn State year over year? I'm seeing fired OCs. They say when people show you who they are, believe them. Franklin has shown us who he is over 10 years. The new coordinators may or may not help - we'll see. I don't believe Franklin meddles with game day playcalling except on certain (big) plays (or, I hope he would). Still, it's his offensive philosophy that guides the OC's - he wants big, chunky, explosive plays and wants to run an RPO. But, he doesn't have the personnel - Allar is not a good fit for an RPO offense but Franklin is a 'make it work' kind of coach. We see it doesn't work except against bad teams.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Why do you respond so aggressively to anyone you disagree with? Michigan up until three years ago was also a 'has been Blue Blood' program - they course corrected and we see the results. Their talent is not superior to Penn State's - as well documented all over recruiting sites, we do as well or better than Michigan year in, year out under Franklin. The thing about progress is you can see it happening in real time - Michigan the past three years was getting better and better. They started by beating their biggest rival and making the CFP. And just kept building on that. They convinced a bunch of players to stay and that helped a ton. Are you seeing progress with Penn State year over year? I'm seeing fired OCs. They say when people show you who they are, believe them. Franklin has shown us who he is over 10 years. The new coordinators may or may not help - we'll see. I don't believe Franklin meddles with game day playcalling except on certain (big) plays (or, I hope he would). Still, it's his offensive philosophy that guides the OC's - he wants big, chunky, explosive plays and wants to run an RPO. But, he doesn't have the personnel - Allar is not a good fit for an RPO offense but Franklin is a 'make it work' kind of coach. We see it doesn't work except against bad teams.

UM fans wanted Harbaugh gone just 3 year ago so maybe the fans aren't right all of the time? When people say one thing that completely contradicts what those around the program report on and they aren't exactly hiding their opinions on it.....yeah, I'll disagree. If UM's talent isn't superior to PSU's, you want to make a wager on who gets more folks drafted this year? What NFL scout is going to say PSU was as talented or more talented than UM this year? None...PSU fans who want a new HC are running with that line. OSU has had more talent for a long time too.

Those recruit rankings are a good guide, but generally the teams 6-15 are kind of close but some hit more in some years than others and they just beat Bama as well as won the MNC. UW played about the same way PSU did and they actually had a passing game. Don't make it personal when I don't agree with you as often I'm on the same page as you. You basically said you don't believe he meddles in the playcalling which was my EXACT point to lein, but since I'm not saying I want him out or a new HC....it's I'm making it personal. No, I actually listen to what folks I pay to read are saying. If you agree he isn't meddling on the play calling, you are actually agreeing with me, but it appears you are conflicted on that for some reason. Not sure why.

 

[Midnighter]

UM fans wanted Harbaugh gone just 3 year ago. When people say one thing that completely contradicts what those around the program report on and they aren't exactly hiding their opinions on it.....yeah, I'll disagree. If UM's talent isn't superior to PSU's, you want to make a wager on who gets more folks drafted this year? Those rankings are a good guide, but generally the teams 6-15 are kind of close but some hit more than others and they just beat Bama as well as won the MNC. UW played about the same way PSU did and they actually had a passing game. Don't make it personal when I don't agree with you as often I'm on the same page as you. You basically said you don't believe he meddles in the playcalling which was my EXACT point to lein, but since I'm not saying I want him out or a new HC....it's I'm making it personal. No, I actually listen to what folks I pay to read are saying.

I just mean your tone is aggressive - you almost don't participate in board chatter unless it's to defend Franklin. And yes, Michigan may have more guys drafted than Penn State, but that is more a measure of individual talent than how good your football team is (positions matter, and Michigan does very well on OL/DL whereas our talent is stockpiled in the defensive backfield and RB/TE it seems, though we have a lot of 'on paper' studs in the OL room more recently). Fans did want Harbaugh gone but he took steps to gain confidence - mostly by not just taking a pay cut and betting on himself, but also by saying:

When Michigan asked coach Jim Harbaugh to take a pay cut to return as head coach this past offseason, he didn't have to think much about it.

Harbaugh on Thursday said it was "no big deal" when asked how he reacted to the request, which cut his base salary from $8 million to $4 million as part of a four-year extension, which was loaded with incentives, that was announced in June.

"I reacted, 'No big deal,'" Harbaugh said on Thursday's Zoom call ahead of the CFP Semifinal at the Capital One Orange Bowl on Friday. "Attacking each day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind, as always. It didn't really mean anything to me. It's just money."

"I would do this job for free," Harbaugh said. "I just love it. Whether it's the first day, first game or position we're in now, which we feel really happy about, I guess I've just enjoyed the ride the whole time."

All I can say about the writers here are I hope they are taking (or took) good care of Phil. He is the reason for all this.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

I just mean your tone is aggressive - you almost don't participate in board chatter unless it's to defend Franklin. And yes, Michigan may have more guys drafted than Penn State, but that is more a measure of individual talent than how good your football team is (positions matter, and Michigan does very well on OL/DL whereas our talent is stockpiled in the defensive backfield and RB/TE it seems, though we have a lot of 'on paper' studs in the OL room more recently). Fans did want Harbaugh gone but he took steps to gain confidence - mostly by not just taking a pay cut and betting on himself, but also by saying:

When Michigan asked coach Jim Harbaugh to take a pay cut to return as head coach this past offseason, he didn't have to think much about it.

Harbaugh on Thursday said it was "no big deal" when asked how he reacted to the request, which cut his base salary from $8 million to $4 million as part of a four-year extension, which was loaded with incentives, that was announced in June.

"I reacted, 'No big deal,'" Harbaugh said on Thursday's Zoom call ahead of the CFP Semifinal at the Capital One Orange Bowl on Friday. "Attacking each day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind, as always. It didn't really mean anything to me. It's just money."

"I would do this job for free," Harbaugh said. "I just love it. Whether it's the first day, first game or position we're in now, which we feel really happy about, I guess I've just enjoyed the ride the whole time."

All I can say about the writers here are I hope they are taking (or took) good care of Phil. He is the reason for all this.

It's only personal apparently when you disagree with my opinion on something. Pretty odd, but whatever. Now it's my posting habits and who I respond to..whatever man that is just nonsense. There are only a few threads I care to respond to...jukebox, US Soccer, English Soccer...and a few more.

UM had more talent this year, they were a better team, and even if some of that came through cheating...they won on the field. When Frankin had better teams and beat them was JH a dumb coach? Of course not, fans are fickle. All of us are and even more so when we only look at our microscope. I get that Franklin has some holes and it's easy to question failed decisions, but you cannot ignore the other parts of the equation. His recruiting while not elite, is pretty stable and good. He beats everyone he should. He's not running a poor program and is holding people accountable. UM got a ton of players to come back via NIL this last year to make a run. They will raise way more money to keep that train going...again most of this is coming from the pay side of this site. It’s not going to be close. You get what you pay for and Jimmy taking a pay cut to save his job is framed up nice, but he'll be out the door this year as he cheated right after that pay cut. If he really loves it so much and would do it for free then he won't bail or accept a raise, right? People know how to save face and that doesn't exclude JF either.

 

[WVilleLion23]

Teams like Ole Miss, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, and other tier 2 programs would be happy and have a parade celebrating a 10-3 season. These programs will never be in the hunt for a National Championship.

For Tier 1 programs like USC, Oklahoma, Ohio State, and Michigan, a 10-3 season is a very disappointing year. These programs are competitors and peers of Penn State. All of these programs are focused on winning a National Championship.

To insinuate that a tier 1 blue-blood program like Penn State should view their 3 awful losses as “not a bad season” is absurd. This was a bad season considering this team had an elite CFP level defense, a very talented RB room, a 5 star QB, a very experienced offensive line with an all-America OT.

There was a lot of NFL draft worthy talent on the 2023 Penn State roster.

The biggest gap between Penn State and programs like Michigan and Ohio State is head coaching.

So if it is all HC, explain Dabo. They wanted him gone and then he became a better coach, won and competed for NCs, and now he what, sucks again? Clearly there must be other factors as well.

I have been a Penn State fan for almost 50 yrs. I used to get very impacted by Penn State and my other favorite sports teams losing. Would impact my attitude and demeanor for days.

Maybe it is wisdom, maybe I’m not a great fan any longer (I know I’m not as fanatical as I used to be). However, when it comes to Penn State Football and my favorite NFL and NHL Teams…I want them to win it all, I hope they win it all, but I do not place expectations on a season. I mean winning it all in CFB, NFL, NHL is tough as hell. Expecting your team to win it all is not healthy for the heart, soul, emotions.

Don’t get me wrong…I hate when my teams lose. I hate losing. I still get angry or disappointed, but I don’t let it last past that respective day. Having changed my mindset as it relates to outcomes of sporting events was great.

 

[MacNit]

did you see a 5 star QB? I didn't

Talent not performance

 

[MacNit]

You state opinions as fact. UM and tOSU will put more players in the first 2 rounds and the entire draft than PSU will so your last line is basically BS, but some want something to hang on to for a reason. The talent gap has closed in recent years and regardless of the inexact stars next to a kids name....UM was loaded with talent this year. tOSU has a top 5 class every single year...PSU once a decade. UM's OL and DL in particular were better overall. Watch the draft....you'll see. PSU isn't and hasn't been a tier 1 blue blood in decades.....with the exception of once or twice a decade teams.....that is the reality. I'm not sure who really thinks PSU is at the top tier or has been for a long time.

You're stuck in 1987 if you think PSU is still a tier 1 blue blood team. That stopped in the late to mid 90's. Getting back there is the hard part. UGa went 3 decades without a title...LSU did pre Saban for 3 decades...so did tOSU. PSU has another step or two to take, but when is the last time and how often has PSU win 10+ 3 years in a row? So the woe is me stuff while cute and fun for a message board is basically BS. Maybe they get there under JF, maybe not....but PSU is in a stable place right now and isn't going backwards currently. Bad coaches lose to teams they shouldn't. Decent and good coaches win the games they are supposed to. The great ones figure out how to get to that final step, but they also have a school and fanbase who ALL want the same thing....that isn't or at least wasn't PSU since 2012.

I would add you are guilty of same thing: stating opinion as fact.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

I would add you are guilty of same thing: stating opinion as fact.

Which part? I'm sure I'm guilty of it and won't disagree with that comment at all. Will UM not put more players in the NFL in this draft? Seems that way. Does tOSU have top 5 classes more often than not? Saying it was every year was inaccurate but it's fair to say they recruit at a different level than most consistently. Is PSU considered a tier one blue blood right now...not really. One conference title a decade for the most part and no MNC's in 3 decades just about kind of backs that up...but again that is just opinion. Knocking at the door and looking in the window trying to say let me back in...seems fair to me...others may disagree. Now PSU had a 3-4 year setback due to some utter BS and there was some stink around the program, but they seem to back on some solid ground again. Others feel differently. Some also want to think the $$$'s being spent and going towards NIL is apples to apples, but it's not from what I'm reading. Maybe that is inaccurate, but the folks reporting it seem to be legit and have been for a long time.

 

[Midnighter]

It's only personal apparently when you disagree with my opinion on something. Pretty odd, but whatever. Now it's my posting habits and who I respond to..whatever man that is just nonsense. There are only a few threads I care to respond to...jukebox, US Soccer, English Soccer...and a few more.

UM had more talent this year, they were a better team, and even if some of that came through cheating...they won on the field. When Frankin had better teams and beat them was JH a dumb coach? Of course not, fans are fickle. All of us are and even more so when we only look at our microscope. I get that Franklin has some holes and it's easy to question failed decisions, but you cannot ignore the other parts of the equation. His recruiting while not elite, is pretty stable and good. He beats everyone he should. He's not running a poor program and is holding people accountable. UM got a ton of players to come back via NIL this last year to make a run. They will raise way more money to keep that train going...again most of this is coming from the pay side of this site. It’s not going to be close. You get what you pay for and Jimmy taking a pay cut to save his job is framed up nice, but he'll be out the door this year as he cheated right after that pay cut. If he really loves it so much and would do it for free then he won't bail or accept a raise, right? People know how to save face and that doesn't exclude JF either.

All good - but I said ‘aggressive tone’ not that it was ‘personal.’

 

[LaJollaCreek]

All good - but I said ‘aggressive tone’ not that it was ‘personal.’

You need to see whom I responding to...treat me fairly and I'll do the same. Don't and I won't...that hasn't changed in quite some time. I'll be perfectly honest...there are a handful of decent posters left on this site who I even bother to really read and respect. I'm sure the feeling is mutual with many and myself...I'm ok with that.

 

[Nits74]

You need to see whom I responding to...treat me fairly and I'll do the same. Don't and I won't...that hasn't changed in quite some time. I'll be perfectly honest...there are a handful of decent posters left on this site who I even bother to really read and respect. I'm sure the feeling is mutual with many and myself...I'm ok with that.

Agree. You are a rational poster.

 

[LionsMD]

do OCs and DCs ever criticize the coach they work for, even after being fired? I tend to think they stay quiet and not burn bridges as doing so might sour others who might hire them.

What we do know is key game moments are decided by the head coach, things like going for it on 4th down, 2 point conversion, etc. One would think the HC reviews and provides input to game planning and preparation. Franklin clearly puts in his 2 cents on play calls, else why is he yapping on headsets and holding charts.

Typically a fired coach and the school sign an NDA not to bad mouth one another. However, word does tend to get out about coaching experiences when they bad mouth a school/coach during recruiting processes.