If 2021 was bad enough. 2022 could be worse.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-or...n-allies-in-russia-ukraine-crisis-11643810404
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-or...n-allies-in-russia-ukraine-crisis-11643810404
WW III. Biden sending troops to Ukraine Border
- Thread starter fishwater99
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NATO allies, not Ukraine.
It's symbolic, we're not sending troops into Ukraine to fight Russians. If they do invade, the economic sanctions on Russia (and Putin's wealthy allies personally) are going to 17 them up for a decade.
It's symbolic, we're not sending troops into Ukraine to fight Russians. If they do invade, the economic sanctions on Russia (and Putin's wealthy allies personally) are going to 17 them up for a decade.
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Literally from the headline:
[h=2]American soldiers will head to Poland, Germany and Romania [/h]
Read a map ever?
Ukraine is bordered by Belarus to the north, Russia to the east, the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea to the south, Moldova and Romania to the southwest, and Hungary, Slovakia, and Poland to the west.
Ukraine is bordered by Belarus to the north, Russia to the east, the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea to the south, Moldova and Romania to the southwest, and Hungary, Slovakia, and Poland to the west.
I get it - you're scared one of your yachts is going to be requisitioned to ferry troops, huh?
I believe they’re going to NATO allies and not Ukraine. If they were put in Ukraine on the Russian border, that would be a big deal. It’s still a buildup of troops in the region but let’s not jump the gun here.
Can't we just ask Generation Pronouns and Generation Depends to unite and ban Putin from Ukraine's lawn and their favorite social media platforms like they're trying to do with Rogan?
Yeah. We have a great track record of imposing economic sanctions that work. Just look at how quickly supermighty awesome economic powerhouse Cuba caved. Our economic sanctions hurt ordinary people, something we call promoting human rights. Maybe tell the bloodthirsty militarists in this country that their time is up, they've failed for decades, their idiotic ideas cost too many American lives and the lives of others, and they've wasted trillions in taxpayer money on invading and bombing other countries that could have been better used on our country and fellow Americans or not used at all so the debt and deficit wouldn't be so sky high. Too many Americans love war and invading and bombing other countries and imposing economic sanctions that make ordinay people suffer. Maybe it's time to rethink think that approach to managing world affairs. No country in the world has gone to war or bombed other countries over the past few decades than us and, of course, we call that promoting human rights. Quit genuflecting to the views of militarists, many of whom have never served in the military. At least defense industry lobbyists have a valid reason for supporting war: it's good for business.
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I know a guy, full time Army. We talked a few weeks ago. He said they are gearing up to go to Europe. He didn't know exactly where or when but they are gearing up to go.
my opinion (not the soldier),
Slap a "I did that!" Sticker on the side of a helicopter.
my opinion (not the soldier),
Slap a "I did that!" Sticker on the side of a helicopter.
With out sanction it will be bad for Russia.
1, Ukraine has the third largest military in Europe.
2. They just had another 145K volunteers that are now armed and being trained.
3. The window is closing. Once the ground melts, it is really muddy.
4. The non Russian speaking Ukrainian hate Russia.
5.It took Russian 10 years to take the Caucasus and 10 years to take Chechnya. Ukraine is not those two country's. Ukraine has a legit military. Russia will be bogged down.
6. Ukraine will be defending their home land.
7. Most of Russian troops are reservist and national guard.
8. Putin is not very popular in Russia right now. This could be his down fall.
9. I fully expect Biden to totally clustered **** this up.
I would love to see Russia get egg on their face.
1, Ukraine has the third largest military in Europe.
2. They just had another 145K volunteers that are now armed and being trained.
3. The window is closing. Once the ground melts, it is really muddy.
4. The non Russian speaking Ukrainian hate Russia.
5.It took Russian 10 years to take the Caucasus and 10 years to take Chechnya. Ukraine is not those two country's. Ukraine has a legit military. Russia will be bogged down.
6. Ukraine will be defending their home land.
7. Most of Russian troops are reservist and national guard.
8. Putin is not very popular in Russia right now. This could be his down fall.
9. I fully expect Biden to totally clustered **** this up.
I would love to see Russia get egg on their face.
This is legitimately good info/analysis. Well, except for 9 which is silly.
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I'm more worried about China taking Taiwan than what is going on with the Ukraine. Of course, the Biden's owe the Ukrainian's for sonny boy.
Doubtful. We'll make noise and do some sanctions that are more bark than bite, but at the end of the day, the current administration isn't concerned about Russia and is if anything supportive for Russia. This administration is supportive of pipelines that help Russia and does what it can to stop pipelines that help the US, even when it results in more environmental harm. They're not going to change just because of invading the Ukraine. If it were, the annexation of Crimea would have been enough.
I stopped reading at “ordinary people”. Any “people” who prefer suffering under oppressive regimes who take every penny of your so-called humanitarian aid and stash it away never giving any to their oppressed “ordinary people”. If nothing else, Americans have proved through time that it is better to die fighting for freedom that to live under life long oppression poor, hungry, and squalid.
And before you point out the American Poor, note that those considered in poverty in America would be in the Top 10% of the wealthiest people in most of these dictator run countries.
There are 200 US military personal in Ukraine training their army., We know it's at least that many because they are National Guard from Florida. There's probably even more that is not being reported. The military treats the media like mushroom. They feed them **** and keeps them in the dark.
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Side story. When I was in the Marine Corps I was sent to Ft. Sill as part of my Scout Observer School. I saw Iraq soldiers being train on how to use our counter battery radar. This was in 1987. Three years later they were using that same radar against us.
Pretty sure that was the prior regime. This regime, if not adversarial with the Biden's, is adversarial with Hunter's (former?) business partners.
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They try to throw sanctions at Russia, Putin will shut down the gas that flows into Europe to heat their population. He’s willing to play chicken.
China is still pretty aggressive with their words and actions about Taiwan. Nothing has changed there.
Don't think Russia will invade: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...raine-a-road-trip-shows-putin-s-war-price-tag
Russia and China have been in talks. I am more concerned with this being a diversion tactic to take attention away from Taiwan.
Russia and China have been in talks. I am more concerned with this being a diversion tactic to take attention away from Taiwan.
We took sides in the Iraq vs Iran war. We picked Iraq. Our war with Iraq in 1990 was latterly a cake walk. When you have soldiers surrendering to CBS news you just got your *** kicked.
It will not be China vs Taiwan. It will be China vs Taiwan, United States, Australia and Japan with possibly S. Korea. Japan has the fourth largest Navy in the world and it is highly advance. China don't want to take on the US and Japanese Navy. Taiwan has steadily been beefing up their defenses with US technology. I have trained with the Japanese defense force, they are formidable and Japan will help defend Taiwan against China. There is nothing easy for china to take Taiwan. You are correct. It is words.
Good for Ukriane that they are getting national guard from Florida. I'm assuming they won't be trying to train the Ukraine on proper pronoun usage and avoiding microaggressions.
Putin is serious (per the military folk i've spoken to). Moving blood supplies to the boarder last week, said as much. They set up field hospitals back in December. What remains to be seen is if what he gains by taking Ukraine outweighs any sanctions we can impose. Long term, the answer is definitely a "yes". He considers Ukraine to be Russia's crown jewel and their biggest mistake was losing it - he's been quoted as saying that. A lot economic activity goes through Ukraine and Russian desperately needs that. I've spoken to one very high ranking military guy who is head of the National Guard in another state and he says that their (his) bet is that Russia will go through with this - at least that's how the US military is approaching it. However he and my son (who is US Special Forces) both are adamant that Russia does not have the economy to support a large scale war past 12 months, like the US is capable of doing. Anything longer than 12 months would absolutely crush their economy. THIS is what the US is banking on and this would be the main reason Russian backs down from their plan but to do that, they have to believe they'd be drug into a major military engagement. That message can only be sent by the US. I'm not sure we're sending that strong of a message right now. Make no mistake about it - this is the Russian government testing Joe Biden and this administration. They know they likely only have 3 more years to do this kind of **** and they're testing the waters.
Totally agree. Japan has some insane military technology that doesn’t get talked about much. Their military is very formidable.
Yep. Catch-22
Most of Europe needs the gas. Nobody needs the Russian instability. What do you do? I know we export a good bit of LNG to Europe (and could more if restrictions were eased), but is that economical/feasible to fill enough of a gap to cut the Russian lines off or to get them to back down some? From what I understand, we are still pretty low on the list of gas suppliers to Europe - obviously makes sense as it must be shipped vs piped in.
We all know Europe is boned if Russia cuts the line in a bad winter - Russia has some budget reserves that will allow them to get through sanctions and to cut the gas for a short period of time. My naïve assumption is that Europe is just going to have to deal with it until demand for Russian gas goes down enough to give them the finger. That requires a major supply change or technology change - neither of which is happening in short range. 10 years? Maybe?
Maybe some sanctioning to the oligarchs/elite themselves will influence things? Cut them off from Western banking and commerce. Doubt it does though - they'll just ***** to Putin and he can cut the lines in response.
Foreign policy and war sucks.
Most of Europe needs the gas. Nobody needs the Russian instability. What do you do? I know we export a good bit of LNG to Europe (and could more if restrictions were eased), but is that economical/feasible to fill enough of a gap to cut the Russian lines off or to get them to back down some? From what I understand, we are still pretty low on the list of gas suppliers to Europe - obviously makes sense as it must be shipped vs piped in.
We all know Europe is boned if Russia cuts the line in a bad winter - Russia has some budget reserves that will allow them to get through sanctions and to cut the gas for a short period of time. My naïve assumption is that Europe is just going to have to deal with it until demand for Russian gas goes down enough to give them the finger. That requires a major supply change or technology change - neither of which is happening in short range. 10 years? Maybe?
Maybe some sanctioning to the oligarchs/elite themselves will influence things? Cut them off from Western banking and commerce. Doubt it does though - they'll just ***** to Putin and he can cut the lines in response.
Foreign policy and war sucks.
What’s happening here is straight out of the Hitler lead Germany playbook. Once Hitler was in full control of Germany, he made a play to “reclaim” what he claimed to be lands occupied by true Germans in the Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia. Once he convinced the western powers to not stand in his way because all he wanted was what belonged to Germany historically, it was pretty easy to get the rest of Czechoslovakia to give itself up. It was the second non-military conquest of Hitler in Europe after taking Austria.
This is the same playbook Putin is playing out. He is using nationalism (oh, there are true Russians in Ukraine that need to be liberated) mixed with military threats to convince the West to not allow Ukraine to join NATO. If Ukraine is part of NATO, the natural resources of Ukraine will be much harder to reunite with Russia, and Russia desperately needs both the resources and the strategic position.
NATO and the US should not allow this bullying to happen in the name of peace. This type of conquest will only embolden Russia the same way it did Germany. You have to keep the bully in his box.
Love you Glory, but we need to do a little fact checking/correction.
1. Russia is the second most powerful military in the world behind the US and slightly ahead of China. There is a massive separation between the top 3 and 4th most powerful India. The Ukraine doesn't make the top 20.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.php
2. New volunteers are better than nothing, but nothing compared to long term reservists who have years of training and many of which were previously active duty.
3. It's not WW2, the muddy ground is a non factor as paved roads, rail, and air are going to be the means of invasion.
5. Those wars didn't last long at all. Much like The US vs Iraq twice. The war is a breeze, it's the insurgency that lasts for ever. Would Ukrainian citizens mount insurgent warfare like Chechens, Taliban, or Al Qaeda/Iraqi terrorists, or just move on with their mostly 1st world lives going from one semi corrupt regime to a purely corrupt regime?
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7. Again, Russia is the 2nd most powerful military in the world. They will absolutely mop the floor with the Ukraine in conventional combat. Those reservists are not flakes
8. Bad miss. Putin is extremely popular. In fact only pre-Monica Bill Clinton and Reagan touch Putin's popularity since WW2 in the US.
View attachment 23792
View attachment 23793
9. I don't want to start a big argument, but make no mistake Russia/Putin are for real. And they are our enemy. From Syria, to Iran, to cyber warfare/cyber terrorism Russia is picking at all of our scabs. It's about time to embarrass the **** out of them, but I have my doubts as well. If the US/NATO make a strong statement he will back down. If it's a limp-wristed response, he will impose his will.
ETA. Upon further reading it appears Putin's popularity is down relatively these days as his approval rating has fallen from the 80's down to the mid 60's over the last several years. How did he get all the way up in the 80's you might ask? By invading and annexing Crimea from the Ukraine in 2014. 17ing Russians man.
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Makes sense.
But the correct long-term response doesn't get politicians re-elected. Bully Russia in a conflict and, at best, the cost of heating goes up tremendously and your citizens kick you to the curb. At worst, many are freezing to death. How do you win if there's no appetite for conflict and diplomacy/sanctioning rarely works?
But the correct long-term response doesn't get politicians re-elected. Bully Russia in a conflict and, at best, the cost of heating goes up tremendously and your citizens kick you to the curb. At worst, many are freezing to death. How do you win if there's no appetite for conflict and diplomacy/sanctioning rarely works?
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