“Labor board regional official clears way for Dartmouth hoops union”

[BobPSU92]

See the link below. From the article:

”A National Labor Relations Board regional official ruled on Monday that Dartmouth basketball players are employees of the school, clearing the way for an election that would create the first labor union for NCAA athletes.

All 15 members of the Dartmouth men's basketball team signed a petition in September asking to join Local 560 of the Service Employees International Union, which already represents some other employees at the Ivy League school in Hanover, New Hampshire.

Unionizing would allow the players to negotiate not only over salary but working conditions, including practice hours and travel.

"Because Dartmouth has the right to control the work performed by the Dartmouth men's basketball team, and the players perform that work in exchange for compensation, I find that the petitioned-for basketball players are employees within the meaning of the (National Labor Relations) Act," NLRB Regional Director Laura Sacks wrote.”

NLRB calls Dartmouth hoops players employees

A National Labor Relations Board regional official has decided that Dartmouth basketball players are employees of the school, clearing the way for an election that would create the first labor union for NCAA athletes.

www.espn.com

“College” Athletics

 

[cac@PSU]

Labor board regional official clears way for Dartmouth hoops union​

This decision should be reversed on appeal.

 

[BobPSU92]

Labor board regional official clears way for Dartmouth hoops union​

This decision should be reversed on appeal.

Is that simply your desire or is there a legal basis?

Let’s say it holds up. What’s to stop Dartmouth from canceling men’s basketball? It’s Dartmouth, not unc or DOOK. . Dartmouth doesn’t need men’s basketball. Is there anything in Ivy League membership bylaws or similar that requires them to field a team?

 

[leinbacker]

Oh those poor, oppressed workers

 

[BobPSU92]

Is that simply your desire or is there a legal basis?

Let’s say it holds up. What’s to stop Dartmouth from canceling men’s basketball? It’s Dartmouth, not unc or DOOK. . Dartmouth doesn’t need men’s basketball. Is there anything in Ivy League membership bylaws or similar that requires them to field a team?

Another consideration is that employees can be fired. Unions can make that difficult, but in general, employees can be fired. These players attempting to unionize should bear that in mind.

 

[GrimReaper]

Another consideration is that employees can be fired. Unions can make that difficult, but in general, employees can be fired. These players attempting to unionize should bear that in mind.

How can they be fired? None of the Dartmouth players receive athletic scholarships. I suppose they could be cut from the team, but that could happen anyway.

 

[BobPSU92]

How can they be fired? None of the Dartmouth players receive athletic scholarships. I suppose they could be cut from the team, but that could happen anyway.

What if their paid employees?

 

[GrimReaper]

What if their paid employees?

If they are paid employees, they can get fired. If they are non-compensated student athletes, they can get cut from the team. How are they any worse off as unionized employees?

 

[ps_1294]

I am guessing I may have an experience that many of you “Board (bored?) Members” lack.

I actually attended a Dartmouth-Columbia basketball at Dartmouth back in 1990 or then abouts. They may have a new arena today, but I have played ball in better high school gyms than they had back then. (I graduated HS in 60’s). Think 1/2 size of Rec Hall but darker/dingier! (It is 35 years ago, ugh)!

 

[BobPSU92]

If they are paid employees, they can get fired. If they are non-compensated student athletes, they can get cut from the team. How are they any worse off as unionized employees?

Remember that I’m slow, but how far does Dartmouth take it? Paid employees have performance targets and performance reviews. Dartmouth could, in principle, make this onerous on the players (and, in turn, on themselves), but they may be willing to take that approach if they are willing ultimately to shut it down.

“You want to be paid employees? Fine, we’ll treat you like all of our other paid employees. Don’t like it? We don’t have to play basketball.”

 

[Bvillebaron]

If they are paid employees, they can get fired. If they are non-compensated student athletes, they can get cut from the team. How are they any worse off as unionized employees?

And if they are paid employees they get the privilege of paying taxes like all other employees.

 

[GrimReaper]

And if they are paid employees they get the privilege of paying taxes like all other employees.

On money which they might not have had otherwise.

 

[Obliviax]

if you follow sports law, Michael McCann is the best in the business. I saw him speak at a sports law symposium 15 years ago, i started to post about CTE as a result, and everything he said would come to pass has come true (including NIL based on the O'bannon lawsuit). He called this "the most significant developments in sports, labor & employment law ever".

 

[ps_1294]

Remember that I’m slow, but how far does Dartmouth take it? Paid employees have performance targets and performance reviews. Dartmouth could, in principle, make this onerous on the players (and, in turn, on themselves), but they may be willing to take that approach if they are willing ultimately to shut it down.

“You want to be paid employees? Fine, we’ll treat you like all of our other paid employees. Don’t like it? We don’t have to play basketball.”

Bob, I think College Athletes already have goals/objectives and performance reviews. They just don’t have incentive bonuses for hitting and exceeding those targets. Many get “cut” or forced to quit if they fail to meet expectations of the coaches.

However, I don’t see college athletics surviving at most colleges if (when) these potential issues become reality. In 2035, most college sports will be clubs??

 

[Nitt1300]

Labor board regional official clears way for Dartmouth hoops union​

This decision should be reversed on appeal.

based on what legal precedent?

 

[SleepyLion]

Bob, I think College Athletes already have goals/objectives and performance reviews. They just don’t have incentive bonuses for hitting and exceeding those targets. Many get “cut” or forced to quit if they fail to meet expectations of the coaches.

However, I don’t see college athletics surviving at most colleges if (when) these potential issues become reality. In 2035, most college sports will be clubs??

Yeah, I see the schools doing a quick profit/loss calculation to determine if these economic endeavors should continue. College says, "we haven't made a profit in years. That sport/team is no longer worth continuing."
Then there will be a bunch of football and men's basketball teams and that's about it.

 

[PSU Mike]

Yeah, I see the schools doing a quick profit/loss calculation to determine if these economic endeavors should continue. College says, "we haven't made a profit in years. That sport/team is no longer worth continuing."
Then there will be a bunch of football and men's basketball teams and that's about it.

But think of all the kids that go there because of the hoops culture!

 

[GrimReaper]

But think of all the kids that go there because of the hoops culture!

 

[LionJim]

Rudy LaRusso!

 

[BobPSU92]

Rudy LaRusso!

Daniel LaRusso!

 

[step.eng69]

Rudy LaRusso!

Good play LJ.
YEP.... #35 Los Angeles

 

[MtNittany]

Daniel LaRusso!

Rudy Russo:

 

[baltimorened]

On money which they might not have had otherwise.

what makes you think they'll get money as part of a union? So, they join and then negotiate...if the school really doesn't need a basketball team, they really don't have to give up anything. In fact, maybe the school lays a position on the table that players have to have 4 hour practices daily, must maintain a 4.0 average, wash their own uniforms and provide the school a $50 stipend for each conference game. Obviously, the players reject the offer go on strike and there are no basketball games. In the giant scheme of life, what difference does it makes if Dartmouth plays basketball? In fact they might save money

 

[GrimReaper]

what makes you think they'll get money as part of a union? So, they join and then negotiate...if the school really doesn't need a basketball team, they really don't have to give up anything. In fact, maybe the school lays a position on the table that players have to have 4 hour practices daily, must maintain a 4.0 average, wash their own uniforms and provide the school a $50 stipend for each conference game. Obviously, the players reject the offer go on strike and there are no basketball games. In the giant scheme of life, what difference does it makes if Dartmouth plays basketball? In fact they might save money

I didn't.

 

[Hugh Laurie]

If these players are deemed employees and represented by a union, Dartmouth would be obligated to give each player a W-2 at the end of each year based on some union negotiated in kind value of perhaps a player's room, board, and tuition and then do the customary tax withholdings/remittances. Determining a fair value proposition for the players is likely to be more problematic than anyone thinks. This is a cluster puck in the making and Congress needs to step in before all of college sports is ruined. Tommy Tuberville to the rescue.

 

[GrimReaper]

If these players are deemed employees and represented by a union, Dartmouth would be obligated to give each player a W-2 at the end of each year based on some union negotiated in kind value of perhaps a player's room, board, and tuition and then do the customary tax withholdings/remittances. Determining a fair value proposition for the players is likely to be more problematic than anyone thinks. This is a cluster puck in the making and Congress needs to step in before all of college sports is ruined. Tommy Tuberville to the rescue.

They pretty much do that already, except on a form 1098-T, but only for tuition and mandatory fees, which, in large part, aren't taxed. Amounts attributable to room and board are taxable (as they are now), but relative to tuition, they are small enough to often fall below the minimum amount of taxable income.

 

[Hugh Laurie]

They pretty much do that already, except on a form 1098-T, but only for tuition and mandatory fees, which, in large part, aren't taxed. Amounts attributable to room and board are taxable (as they are now), but relative to tuition, they are small enough to often fall below the minimum amount of taxable income.

Gotcha. My only observation would be that once the IRS deems the athlete to be an "employee" of the institution, the 1098-T filing requirement might likely cease and be replaced with an employee W-2 possibly reporting the entire tuition, room and board etal as taxable compensation. I guess the question is... is the athlete a student or an employee if he/she is represented by a union negotiating compensation?

 

[GrimReaper]

Gotcha. My only observation would be that once the IRS deems the athlete to be an "employee" of the institution, the 1098-T filing requirement might likely cease and be replaced with an employee W-2 possibly reporting the entire tuition, room and board etal as taxable compensation. I guess the question is... is the athlete a student or an employee if he/she is represented by a union negotiating compensation?

Agree. The form may change for reporting, from a 1098-T to a W-2, if status changes from student to employee. But the IRS doesn't care about status, only what is taxable. Currently, grants for tuition and mandatory fees are not taxed, whereas those for room and board are. That will not change without a revision to the Code.

 

[Obliviax]