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2023 - 2024 Premier League thread

LaJollaCreek

LaJollaCreek

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LionJim said:
Manchester City 2-2 Crystal Oalace, now at 90+6’. It was 2-0 until 76’. Full time.
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City doesn't get KDB until after the holidays and they are going to be in a hole. The Scousers are going kill United again tomorrow.
 
BobPSU92

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Bournemouth v. Luton Town abandoned because a Luton player collapsed suddenly in the 59th minute. Fortunately, he is said to be ”alert and responsive“ at the hospital. The player had a heart issue previously, had surgery, and was cleared to play. 🙁

EDIT: The player is Luton captain Tom Lockyer.

www.espn.com

Luton captain Lockyer 'stable' after cardiac arrest

The Premier League game between Bournemouth and Luton Town was suspended in the 65th minute after Luton captain Tom Lockyer collapsed on the pitch Saturday.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
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Tom McAndrew

Tom McAndrew

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what an idiot. you're in stoppage time in a tie game, and already have 1 yellow, and this is how you react when a bang-bang play goes against you? You react that strongly (and obviously), the ref has to give you a card, which means your team is down a player.

 
LaJollaCreek

LaJollaCreek

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Tom McAndrew said:
what an idiot. you're in stoppage time in a tie game, and already have 1 yellow, and this is how you react when a bang-bang play goes against you? You react that strongly (and obviously), the ref has to give you a card, which means your team is down a player.

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Michael Oliver is the idiot. Nunez snapped back at the him earlier in the match and then kicked the ball away and he just got a yellow. Salah waved his finger at the ref and got nothing. The first yellow to Dalot was warranted even though the call was CLEARLY wrong, you don't double down inside of 10 seconds. It's a new rule which they do need to enforce, but doubling down is not the spirit of the rule. Even VAR was chirping in his ear trying to figure out what that clueless idiot had done.
 
Tom McAndrew

Tom McAndrew

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LaJollaCreek said:
Michael Oliver is the idiot. Nunez snapped back at the him earlier in the match and then kicked the ball away and he just got a yellow. Salah waved his finger at the ref and got nothing. The first yellow to Dalot was warranted even though the call was CLEARLY wrong, you don't double down inside of 10 seconds. It's a new rule which they do need to enforce, but doubling down is not the spirit of the rule. Even VAR was chirping in his ear trying to figure out what that clueless idiot had done.
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I didn't see the game, so I can't comment on Oliver's overall performance as a ref in the game.

On the situations you listed, again, without having seen them and going just from your description:

- a yellow was warranted to Nunez, as the "snapping back" is something you usually just work out on the field without a card, but kicking the ball away is delay, and pretty much always warrants a yellow
- Salah waving a finger is a public display of dissent, but if that's all he did you probably just smile and don't card the player

I'm not sure if I'll have time to find, and then watch, a replay of the match in the coming weeks.
 
LaJollaCreek

LaJollaCreek

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Tom McAndrew said:
I didn't see the game, so I can't comment on Oliver's overall performance as a ref in the game.

On the situations you listed, again, without having seen them and going just from your description:

- a yellow was warranted to Nunez, as the "snapping back" is something you usually just work out on the field without a card, but kicking the ball away is delay, and pretty much always warrants a yellow
- Salah waving a finger is a public display of dissent, but if that's all he did you probably just smile and don't card the player

I'm not sure if I'll have time to find, and then watch, a replay of the match in the coming weeks.
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That isn't how the rules are this year. Dissent = a card and Dalot snapped back for a clearly blown call (it was the clearly the wrong call) and got a yellow. I get that, it's a card and that is what they are trying to do, but they are picking and choosing once again. Just like flops that still rarely get cards. After the yellow Dalot was still hot and Oliver doubled down within 10 seconds on the initial yellow. That is the rub. They did the same think to Dunk at Newcastle weeks back....the refs cannot double down for dissent on a single play.

Nunez took a shot on goal after the whistle from 40 yards away and then complained about the call......it was every bit as bad as what Dalot did. Nunez only did deserve a yellow though, but it's just inconsistent. Salah wasn't just waving his finger, he too was yelling while making the card gesture which again....is supposed to be an automatic yellow card.

If you didn't see it, maybe you can watch it because it's a new rule that is enforced inconsistently. Not to mention when you are in the 4th minute of 5 in stoppage time, you don't' send someone off for a double yellow based on your own inadequate call. VAR had to try and figure out with Oliver what he had done and I'm sure they probably let him know....yeah you missed that call. Dalot absolutely deserved the initial yellow even with the wrong call....not the second one that quickly.
 
Tom McAndrew

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LaJollaCreek said:
That isn't how the rules are this year. Dissent = a card and Dalot snapped back for a clearly blown call (it was the clearly the wrong call) and got a yellow. I get that, it's a card and that is what they are trying to do, but they are picking and choosing once again. Just like flops that still rarely get cards. After the yellow Dalot was still hot and Oliver doubled down within 10 seconds on the initial yellow. That is the rub. They did the same think to Dunk at Newcastle weeks back....the refs cannot double down for dissent on a single play.
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Dissent is always inconsistent, in that players complain all the time. You often let it go early on, or with a particular player, and just tell them to stop, etc. That said, if there are known whiners on a team, a ref can take a different approach, and card them early on to send a clear message that they don't want that type of antics in the game. The reason so few refs take this approach is that it sets a very low bar, and then any later non-cards seem like inconsistencies (which in a black-and-white evaluation, they are), though they can also just be good management of the game.

LaJollaCreek said:
Nunez took a shot on goal after the whistle from 40 yards away and then complained about the call......it was every bit as bad as what Dalot did. Nunez only did deserve a yellow though, but it's just inconsistent. Salah wasn't just waving his finger, he too was yelling while making the card gesture which again....is supposed to be an automatic yellow card.
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Yeah, automatic yellows are good on paper, but just don't work all that well in execution. All good refs use the flexibility in every rule to manage the game. It's not uncommon that a team's main attacker (like Salah) will get fouled constantly, but often not at a level that warrant a card. The ref knows their frustration is building, so if they overreact after being fouled, or when a call goes against them, you'll often give them more leeway than you would another player. Again, as I mentioned above, it is inconsistent in a black-and-white universe, but it is also effective management.
LaJollaCreek said:
If you didn't see it, maybe you can watch it because it's a new rule that is enforced inconsistently. Not to mention when you are in the 4th minute of 5 in stoppage time, you don't' send someone off for a double yellow based on your own inadequate call. VAR had to try and figure out with Oliver what he had done and I'm sure they probably let him know....yeah you missed that call. Dalot absolutely deserved the initial yellow even with the wrong call....not the second one that quickly.
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I didn't mention in my post about what an idiot Dalot was, but refs are usually very reluctant to give a 2nd yellow in stoppage time of a tie match. It so disadvantages one of the teams, and seems disproportionate to the violation. But if you're as demonstrative as Dalot was, you kind of give the ref no choice. You're telling all the other players that they basically react any way they want after any call is made, which is a recipe for disaster. This leads back to earlier in the match, as reasons that a ref will often issue a stern lecture as opposed to giving a yellow, so that should a situation with the same player occur later in the match, then the ref is not put in the situation of issuing a 2nd yellow. And it's also why automatic yellows don't work all that well. The flip side is that most of what I'm describing is for managing games at levels below that of the EPL. Those guys are so good, and will take advantage of almost anything they can, that refs don't have the same amount of tools (i.e., flexibility) with which to work. And the EPL has gotten so fed up with the dissent (which really is out of control) that they instituted the change in how the rule is supposed to be applied. I think refs are trying to work through all the dynamics, though I don't think anyone is satisfied.
 
LaJollaCreek

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Grant Green said:
Very fortunate tie for MU.

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It was lucky and fortunate, but Liverpool should have put them away and really only had a few semi decent chances. That was a mash squad out there with babies playing. Until City gets KDB back, it looks like an Arsenal Liverpool race right now. This weekend could be pretty pivotal for both squads there as they can maybe get a gap in before the new year.

Tom McAndrew said:
Dissent is always inconsistent, in that players complain all the time. You often let it go early on, or with a particular player, and just tell them to stop, etc. That said, if there are known whiners on a team, a ref can take a different approach, and card them early on to send a clear message that they don't want that type of antics in the game. The reason so few refs take this approach is that it sets a very low bar, and then any later non-cards seem like inconsistencies (which in a black-and-white evaluation, they are), though they can also just be good management of the game.



Yeah, automatic yellows are good on paper, but just don't work all that well in execution. All good refs use the flexibility in every rule to manage the game. It's not uncommon that a team's main attacker (like Salah) will get fouled constantly, but often not at a level that warrant a card. The ref knows their frustration is building, so if they overreact after being fouled, or when a call goes against them, you'll often give them more leeway than you would another player. Again, as I mentioned above, it is inconsistent in a black-and-white universe, but it is also effective management.


I didn't mention in my post about what an idiot Dalot was, but refs are usually very reluctant to give a 2nd yellow in stoppage time of a tie match. It so disadvantages one of the teams, and seems disproportionate to the violation. But if you're as demonstrative as Dalot was, you kind of give the ref no choice. You're telling all the other players that they basically react any way they want after any call is made, which is a recipe for disaster. This leads back to earlier in the match, as reasons that a ref will often issue a stern lecture as opposed to giving a yellow, so that should a situation with the same player occur later in the match, then the ref is not put in the situation of issuing a 2nd yellow. And it's also why automatic yellows don't work all that well. The flip side is that most of what I'm describing is for managing games at levels below that of the EPL. Those guys are so good, and will take advantage of almost anything they can, that refs don't have the same amount of tools (i.e., flexibility) with which to work. And the EPL has gotten so fed up with the dissent (which really is out of control) that they instituted the change in how the rule is supposed to be applied. I think refs are trying to work through all the dynamics, though I don't think anyone is satisfied.
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My whole point is you don't give 2 yellows for basically the same offense inside of 10 seconds to the same person. Maybe if he was laying hands or going out of his way, but the players too can blow off steam. The ref needs to control his emotions too there and think about what he is doing. Dalot isn't Bruno who has that reputation....so the second one wasn't warranted and it's why there is a bit of a talking point on it. They need to figure this out a bit more. At the very least once VAR tells you that you missed the call you wave off the second yellow just like they do for yellows given for PK's when it is overturned. Had Liverpool scored off his wrong call and bogus red card there would have been more blow back on this. Oliver should be thankful Liverpool didn't score late.
 
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Tom McAndrew

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TV Schedule for this Weekend (12/22, 12/23, 12/24, 12/26)

The Christmas holiday, and the traditional Boxing Day matches impact the schedule. As such, I'm expanding the weekend to include the Boxing Day matches.

Friday
3:00 pm EST -- Aston Villa vs. Sheffield U. (USA Network)

Saturday
7:30 am EST -- West Ham U. vs. Man U. (USA Network)
10:00 am EST -- Tottenham Hotspur vs. Everton (Peacock)
10:00 am EST -- Nottingham Forest vs. AFC Bournemouth (Peacock)
10:00 am EST -- Fulham vs. Burnley (Peacock)
10:00 am EST -- Luton Town vs. Newcastle U. (USA Network)
12:30 pm EST -- Liverpool vs. Arsenal (NBC)

Sunday
8:00 am EST -- Wolverhampton Wanderers vs. Chelsea (USA Network)

Tuesday
7:30 am EST -- Newcastle U. vs. Nottingham Forest (USA Network)
10:00 am EST -- Sheffield U. vs. Luton Town (Peacock)
10:00 am EST -- AFC Bournemouth vs. Fulham (USA Network)
12:30 pm EST -- Burnley vs. Liverpool (USA Network)
3:00 pm EST -- Man U. vs. Aston Villa (USA Network)
 
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LionJim

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Aston Villa 0-1 Sheffield United on a glorious goal just now, at 88’. I turned it on 20 minutes ago, nonstop thrills.

9 minutes added time???? F that.
 
LionJim

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stater02 said:
Should’ve been 2-1 villa. Clearly missed handball call against Sheffield. Oh well. At least it’s a point. Just sad we couldn’t pour it on against the worst team in the league.
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When was this handball? I only caught the last 20 or so minutes.
 
LaJollaCreek

LaJollaCreek

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BobPSU92 said:
ten hag’s got this.
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Stick to lattes bob as what he does have is a mash unit that is playing a bunch of kids in key spots. Not sure they get any better until they get healthy and the wings figure out that they can service the ball. It doesn't matter who the #9 is, they don't provide service to anyone up top. The only 2 decent chances any forwards have had the last 2 weeks were duds to boot.
 
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LionJim

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Grant Green said:
@LionJim well, pretty legit result.

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Yeah, the stats were slashed right down the middle, as if by Pai Mei. Still, I think the Gunners escaped. How Salah missed at around 20’ we’ll never know. It’s a long haul, Gunners are still on top.
 
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