2024 PSU WSOC Thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
Appeared on replay it went off her shoulder / bicep not her head. Maybe thats ok.
the shoulder is definitely OK
the bicep isn't as easy to give an answer to. The area of the arm that can be illegal (i.e., can result in a hand ball) is from the bottom of the arm pit to the end of the fingers. So if the highest part of the ball is hitting the bicep, it may, if other conditions are met, be a hand ball. If the middle of the ball (height wise) hits the bicep, it's in a gray area, as the highest part of the ball is likely above the bottom of the arm pit. In real time (without VAR), you have to make (as a ref) an instant decision as to whether or not all of the ball was below the bottom of the arm pit.
Just hitting the arm does not make it a hand ball. The general rule is in the arm in a natural position, or is in in an unnatural position. An arm in a natural position in most cases does not result in a hand ball call if the ball hits the arm. An arm in an unnatural position (extended out wide) usually results in a hand ball call if the ball hits the arm. There's also some gray area in the general rule, in that if you are running, it's natural to pump your arms, so you have to be careful in assessing what is natural position and what is not, depending on what a player is doing a the time the ball hits the arm. Lastly (a continuation of the natural position rule), if the arm is at a player's side, even if the ball only hits arm, it's legal, and not a hand ball.
So returning to the play in question. Based on the video I posted, it's kind of tough to tell what happened. The camera is behind the player, so it's unclear to me where exactly the ball hit the player. It could have hit the head, it could have hit the shoulder, or it could have hit the arm. It's also unclear if the UNC player's arm was by her side or not. Fortunately, the ref was not in line with the camera, and seemed to have a good view as to whether or not the UNC player had raised her elbow to direct he ball off her arm, or whether the ball went off the UNC player's head.
I missed this earlier. Handball here is not rated like handball elsewhere, at least by FIFA rules. It came up in a Columbus Crew game recently. You are right about most cases of handball. Except....
The IFAB Laws of the Game state, “It is an offense if a player scores in the opponents' goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental.” If the handball results in a goal, it doesn't matter whether it is intentional. It's an offense.
If it hit the arm, the correct call is no goal.
Everything you indicated is correct. I would caution that the play in question was for a college game. IFAB rules are not in effect for college, or for high school, soccer. They each have their own set of rules. (Youth uses IFAB rules, with modifications as set by each country.)
For college, the wording of the rules for 2024-25 are different than IFAB's Law of the Game, but the net is they are pretty much in agreement with IFAB regarding when the ball goes in the goal after hitting the arm of an attacking player:
College Rules
Under Rule 10 - Scoring
10.1.1 A goal is scored when the whole of the ball has passed over the goal line, between the goal posts and under the crossbar, provided it has not been intentionally thrown, carried or propelled by hand or arm by a player of the attacking side, except as otherwise provided by these rules
Under Rule 12 - Fouls And Misconduct
12.2.8.1.2 Scores in the opponent's goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
As I recall, it was vs Cincy in the MLS Cup playoffs in 2023 where the third goal was disallowed due to this. The Crew went on to score three straight and went to the Cup final where they won (I was at both games).
Former women's soccer midfielder Rowan Lapi signs deal with pro team in Sweden
A former Penn Stater is heading overseas for her professional career.